@@dylanlabadie130 But russ isnt overrated he got an MVP he doesnt even deserve and he too has been bounced out the first round with him as the leader with help he had paul GEORGE and victor Oladipo ironically both guys who are doing way better without him. Even CP3 without any big name superstar or all star has the OKC thunder at the 6th seed and is establishing a great culture over there at okc practically by himself. Russ is THE MOST OVERRATED POINT GUARD EVER. But low gave it to him because he has an MVP. At least john Stockton with another great player can make the finals TWICE and on top of that okc made the finals in a lockout year the very next year they got bounced out the 2nd round with KD with him. But without KD he do the same thing cp3 is doing but way worse. But hes over Stockton who with another great teammate made the finals twice. That karl malone arguement is inadequate cause when karl left Stockton he went to the lakers and made the finals UNDER SHAQ AND KOBE. John stockton is better than russ he should at least be 6 or 7. Steve nash is great but he never made the finals in an equal as tough conference as the west was in the 00s and the 90s and steve had help that whole system was based around him. Stockton is at least 6th or 7tj
- lol. Agree but at the same time, LOW pointed out that Oscar had the stats but not going deep into the playoffs while West had the stats and went deep into the playoffs. Without advanced stats, it is hard to evaluate pre 1980s greats. They didn't pick all-time defensive teams until 1969-70 when West was 31yo or record steals (until '73-74 in West's final year). So here we are barber-shopping...
FTC FlightTeamStandUp Oh for sure I agree with that logic like LOW said, the Center position has probably evolved the most especially in the modern NBA. Center is definitely the deepest position in NBA history as well. With any all time rankings it really is hard to compare guys across eras. Especially comparing someone like Jerry West or Magic Johnson to Steph Curry.
future hofer 2015-2019 were elite. So u got that flipped. He played 11 seasons too so u clearly don’t know much about curry. So he had 4 good seasons and 7 seasons that were basically just dealing w injuries or developing his young talent...
@@brendanl.6220 2013 he was an elite, all-star level point guard. 2014 he was an all-star, and widely considered around a top 10 player. 2015 to 2019 he had all-time great seasons, was the best point guard in the league, not even close, and was a top 3 level player. His 11th season he played 5 games.
@@riqui5406 I dont know if you're saying that the 2013-14 was an elite curry or that an 2012-13 was an elite curry, cause saying that 2012-13 curry was elite is just flat out dumb. Even saying 2014 curry was "elite" is dumb. Just because he was an all-star that doesn't mean he's elite and a "top 10 player" lol.
@@genermanaloto6509 I mean...yeah..that's how you win MVP buddy....Be the best player on the best team, lol? Unless youre doing something that hasn't been done in decades, like averaging a triple-double, then you're not winning the MVP unless you meet that criteria.
@@bradyd2270 well has to most assists all time magic was a better flashy passer and had better teammates and why would you say not even say that knowing his assists numbers
Thank you for the good @t name is Dennis and I relate to your NBA content a lot. I watch your channel a lot and find myself agreeing with your takes on matters @t an NBA fan tuned in to your channel all the way from Nairobi, Kenya. It's in Africa. I'm subscribed to your channel and I've turned on notification posts as well. Great work, Keep Pushing. God Bless you.
Otherwise, this was a good list! I'm glad you gave Isaiah Thomas the respect he deserves! My top 5 point guards is Magic, Curry, Thomas, Robertson, Stockton. Jerry West is a shooting guard.
Sheesh as soon as I saw Stockton 10 I was like in typical LOW fashion he starts out controversial lol. I agree he’s overrated but 10? Aw man I can’t go that far maybe 5-6
#1 all time in assists and steals, and nobody is even CLOSE. Nobody will ever touch his assist record his type of longevity and consistency at the point guard position may never be seen again
@@CodeineAbdulJabbar His assists were largely what's called Rondo assists. Where the pass doesn't actually make the bucket easier to get, but relies on the receiver to do most of the work.
This shouldn’t be an argument purely based on statistics if we’re discussing the greatest point guards in history. It’s not a discussion of the greatest statistical accumulators in history. Cousy was a winner, a teammate, and an ambassador above all else. He’s a great comparison to Curry today in terms of impact and pushing the game of basketball forward, more so than Stockton ever came close to
@@VictorFPoB No...John Stockton broke guys with his superior cardio, you didn't get easy minutes with Stockton he would speed up or slow down the game and break his opponents. More impressively he did all of it at elevation.
Yeah and lebron is fairly close to that number but he's still the greatest SF ain't he?? I'm not defending his position on this list but that's not a valid argument.
Prophet_ 2059 You are most definitely comparing if you weren’t comparing what was the point of even bringing lebron into the same category as jerry west
Just remember that before the Jazz played and lost to the Bulls in the 1998 Finals, John Stockton and the Jazz _swept_ the Los Angeles Lakers in the Western Conference Finals - a Lakers team that had both Shaq and Kobe playing for them. As a point guard, John Stockton is vastly underappreciated and underrated.
@@jcmaybenot oh he was in his prime. He actually went to the all star game in 98 too. And he was also at his athletic best. Only thing people can say was Phil Jackson wasn't there yet but the Lakers had the more athletic talented team than the Jazz and they still beat them.
@@kennylopezjeetkunedo5555 no he wasn't in his prime, and he went to the all star game because he was a talented young star on the Lakers. Kobe's prime probably starts from 01 to 10. Anything before and after are definitely not years you can call his prime, furthermore 98 wasn't even a HOF level season from him, which he had about ten of...so no it wasn't close to his prime. His best years can be argued as either 06, 03, 04, 01, 08, or 09.....but his sophomore year in the league he didn't even average 16 pts a game and averaged less than 10 in thr playoffs.
@@jcmaybenot he was also wasn't starting even though he was one of the best on the team at the time with Eddie Jones so he was actually even more dangerous coming off the bench at the time. So a lot of people will say that because he wasn't starting but he definitely was at his athletic best in 98. And regardless of what anyone says, the Lakers had a more stacked squad than the Jazz did in 98, and the Lakers were far more athletic than the Jazz was. I'm only bring that up because a lot of people from this generation talk about how athletic all these players are today and being more athletic doesn't mean you're the better team or better player.
@@Bri.ThaRapper i love jason williams but i wouldnt blame anybody if they dont put him in their top 10. Jason surely is my top 3 fav pg to watch. Tied with magic. I like watching curry and prime rondo and cp3 more.
yeah because he dished to Malone all the time lol, and Malone more often than not is gonna score when heading to the basket, he was too strong to stop one on one, dude was built like a tank
My top 10 1. Magic Johnson 2. Stephen Curry 3. Isiah Thomas 4. Oscar Robertson 5. Jerry West 6. Chris Paul 7. Jason Kidd 8. Steve Nash 9. Gary Payton 10. Russell Westbrook
@Minimal Interest he averaged 28-6-5 on 49/48/86 shooting from games 3-6 and put up 26-8-4 in game 1 on 50% shooting. Game 2 was his only God awful game
The Russell Westbrook placement shook me. But when I thought about it I couldn't think of any real reason for him to not be up there, or really anyone to go over him. I don't know why but that's just kinda crazy to me
He steals rebounds, gets mad assists because the defense focuses on him more than they should? he cant shoot volume at a high clip from outside and he lives at the rim. Hes devastating on the drive like we have never seen and his ability to finish at the rim is crazy. but hes been stat hunting on teams to pad it out.He's not a PG IMO. hes a scoring guard that can make plays secondary. He can average 10 assists for his whole career and never get close to the record. I like to separate the scoring PGs and the facilitators.
Idk why Chris Paul gets labeled as a choker, if you realize he’s always been there like LOW said he just gets injured and the worst times, like in 2018, had Chris Paul not been injured then the rockets would’ve been nba champions
Somregularguy durability is arguably one of the most important traits. What good would all the great ones be if they were hurt all the time deep in the playoffs? Imagine, there would be zero GOAT talk if Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, Duncan. Arguing because he would PROB have a ring is insulting to the greats who won every year he could have. They were greater because they were more durable. They took care of themselves better and they were stronger. It’s facts bc they WENT LONGER.
I agree, but we don't know how much Curry really can play at this all-time great level. He's already missed this season cause of a hand injury + his ankles are like paper. The GSW core is getting older and every single team in the west and even in the east is getting better. Are they still a championship contender? idk, we'll see, but I don't think Curry can win another championship unless something major happens or somebody chokes, like the injuries to the cavs in 2014 - 15 or the choke job by the Thunder in 2015 - 16.
If Curry doesn't ball out and win another 1 or 2 titles, he would be stuck at top 2 PG of all-time. Pretty damn great to be second only to Magic, but yeah no FMVP will be an issue when we talk about top all-time rankings.
@@isaaccalalang7832 Bro has played less than 70 games for the past 3 seasons, and he missed this season cause of a hand injury. He's getting up there in age and the fact that his ankles aren't durable isn't going to change....
Facts, I think curry will win another championship and he’ll be an all star for like 5 more years or if he gets lucky 6 more but I definitely agree with you
@@outlawstarjoseph8064 yeaaa the most assists in history, most steals in history, 2nd all time ast avg, top 10 all time, 5 all defensive selectiona, shot 50% from the field = overrated
Isiah was amazing but the narrative that Isiah beat Bird, Magic, and MJ in their primes is overstated considering that in the: 88 series vs Boston, played well while Bird suffered due to bone spurs on both feet 89 series vs Boston, he averaged 12 points on 33% shooting while Bird missed the season due to surgery to treat aforementioned bone spurs 89 Finals vs LA, Dumars won FMVP while Byron Scott didn't play and neither did Magic after 1.5 games 88, 89, and 90 series vs CHI, he shot 40% and below each series
@@TheIcemanthomas Well you have to add context or else IT would be gaining a lot of clout for stuff he didn't do. He beat them sure but to say he beat them in their primes or he dominated them on an individual bases is just a flat out lie.
@@TheIcemanthomas because most people already know the narratives surrounding other great point guards but when we talk about Isiah the #1 case that gets brought up for him is that he beat 3 top 10 players in their primes. That's like me claiming that Steph beat LeBron 3 times in his prime without adding any context. No hate
Was Jerry West not known as mr. clutch? Was he not finals mvp in spite of losing? He had to go against Bill Russell’s Celtics. He was insane in playoffs
He don’t agree with west at 2 and I’d rather him be considered a 2 guard. Also I think stock should be higher but otherwise this is a decent list. One of the more knowledgeable ones I’ve seen.
A Different Perspective not to the players. The players show nothing but love for stock. It’s only causals and you tubers ever spread this Stockton distain
@@TheIcemanthomas real talk though mans was playing with another top 5 player in their respective position and still never won a ring and was #8 i believe as the highest in mvp consideration nothing against him but i do think his longevity propelled him in the pg discussion
I think the best way to measure a player is to base it off defensive and offensive ability. Being good at one thing should disqualify them. A well rounded player is one that will give your team a chance to win
Dark Reaper Edits I think his contributions to that Spurs team really propel his legacy past what it would’ve been anywhere else. For his career he was a 16 ppg and like 6 apg guy in that spurs system with a couple 20 ppg seasons, elsewhere I think it’s fair to say he probably would’ve been a low teens kind scorer and 4-5 assist guy, which is still a good career, but not one in top ten PG conversation. Maybe two or three all-star selections and for the bulk of his career he’s known as a high-level role player and borderline all star
Dark Reaper Edits I think the era he played in was huge for him too. Like in today’s NBA with his small frame, lack of crazy athleticism, and no real outside shooting (for his career he’s a 32% 3pt shooter on 1 three attempt per game), he’d probably be like a 12th man, if he was even able to keep a roster spot😂 but then again it’s hard to put players in different eras too, so you know it’s kind of moot.
Marc Bibanga And clutchness is one of the intangibles of players in any sport that really elevates a player. I don’t disagree with you. I’m just saying in a hypothetical scenario where he never goes to San Antonio and plays in that system and we possibly never see him deliver in crunch time; he’d be remembered a lot differently. Projecting his talents in practically any other situation I think his career would’ve been less prolific.
1995 GetJiggyWitIt better playoff performer? Steph averages 6 more points than Thomas in the playoffs, averages more rebounds per game, shoots a higher percentage from 2, 3 and from the FT line. Steph also has more rings. Thomas averages 2.5 assists per game more and another steal per game. Thomas has the most memorable series of the 2 (88 finals on one leg), but his finals numbers don’t compare to Steph’s numbers. Go and check for yourself. The 88 series, Thomas only averaged 19.7 ppg, even after scoring 43 in game 6. He had a 10 point and 13 point game. Statistically speaking Curry is the better playoff performer. Championship wise Curry is the better performer. Finals numbers Steph is better, and they should have the same number of finals MVP’s (15 should have been Steph’s). Better passer and defender yes I’ll give you. Steph is a better shooter, scorer and has completely changed the sport, something Thomas never even came close to doing. As for better leader, which player led their team to an all time best 73-9 record? You have nothing to back up your claim that Thomas is a better leader, as Steph has led his team to greater success than Thomas.
@1995 GetJiggyWitIt ok steph is a better passer let's get that straight a way better leader because of the simple fact that he had the best offensive season ever and was willing to take a step back when kd arrived for the betterment of the team and Isiah has as many bad playoff games if not more then steph
ViperProYT i respect this cuz this what I love to see in LOW’s comments. Other people that think just like low cuz everyone that watches these videos aren’t complete absolute fucking potatoes that think they know what they talkin bout but they don’t, but again, I like that pf ranking
Hes overrated watch more basketball you probably think hes top 3 hes not casuals think Stockton is so great he is but compared to steph hes not as good
she want me stop it, arguably the greatest floor general ever, all time leader in steals and assists. And he’s one of the most underrated clutch shooters.
@@kanyecrazy7440 the assist are easy he gets it to karl and he can get 10 assist from that hes overrated put steph curry on that team with karl malone they would have won in 6
Jason Kidd was so versatile. If you wanted him to get his coach fired, he could do it. If you wanted him to get a DUI, he could do it. Hell if you wanted him to assault his wife, he can even do that.
Jack Johnson Cousy got a better regular season and playoff win percentage. Cousy got more championships. He’s got more playoff appearances, more MVPs, and more All Star game MVPs. Cousy made everyone around him better because he was a better passer. Cousy also beat West in the finals
Because his stats are inflated. His assists are because he was lucky enough to play with a healthy Karl Malone all of those years. I wouldn't even had John Stockon on this list... I would have included Gary Payton on here instead.
His durability which led to those numbers plus his assist were to Malone most of the time he wasn't flashy and had no left he went from a pure scorer in college to an assist leader the minute he touched the Jazz roster same with the guard before him it was the system that got him all those assists and steals
I feel like John Stockton is starting to become underrated because of that vid by NBA Storyteller and Rusty Buckets. Yes, Stockton did have a left. Were his assist figures fluffed up? Maybe. But I’ve been hearing that about assists in general for most of my 40 years. The problem with Stockton other than not winning a title is he played so long that his prime was long forgotten by the time he retired in 2003. Prime Stockton is like 17pts/14 assists/3 steals on crazy shooting splits. Oh and don’t look now but the analytics love Stockton (.200+ career win shares/48 mins). He passes the eye test too. Great film in this list. He’s becoming oddly underrated. Point 2: Chris Paul is most likely better than Isiah Thomas. I love the original IT but he has dirty efficiencies/very weak analytics. Also people mis-remember the bad boy Pistons. They won because of incredible balance on the team and Joe Dumars was likely the best player on the team due to similar offense and far superior defense and shooting. Jerry West said the same thing in-period. People remember IT’s no-defense pistons numbers with Kelly Tripucka years before Chuck Daly took over the Pistons and made them a more defensive, deliberate team. Great, great point guard though. Third point: this must be greatest career and not necessarily best. Kevin Johnson, Derrick Rose (who KJ is basically a direct forerunner to) and Walt Clyde Frazier are better than most of the players on this list. Honorable mention to Dennis Johnson (especially the Sonics version).
The Jazz system made Stockton Stockton same with the pg before him they went from scorers in college to double digit assist in pro the whole gameplan was pass to Malone. And power drive or catch and shoot mid range plus playing passing lanes is of course gonna make more steals and the reason IT is higher is because less injuries and more post season success IT and Dumars were a nasty duo both being elite 2 ways especially for their size the whole pistons team were either pure defenders or elite 2 way players with IT and Dumars leading the way IT deserves to be higher than CP3
Ray Burks the funny thing about the video is that it showed John Stockton clearly doing more than what he said. At least in NBA Storyteller and Rusty Buckets’ vid it showed he only dribbling right and making basic passes to Malone. Prime Stockton’s steal numbers were too high to be just passing lane hawking. He was also a very good on-ball defender. I think it was just his unassuming way and low usage that have people eager to knock him down. It’s not unlike Tim Duncan where people shadow diss him “Kobe was better in the 2000’s”, if the Bulls ran it back they’d have won in 1999”, “ if Kobe and Shaq were not feuding, they’d have won more”. It’s the same thing happening with Stockton where he’s just cast aside with peripheral arguments or explanations as to why he did what he did that don’t apply to anyone else, really. I won’t fight you on IT vs CP3. The eye test and for sure the numbers indicate CP3 was better. IT is probably the only great player with ~ .100 win shares/48 that everyone treats like you can just put him out there with any mediocre cast and they’d win at say, a 50 game/season level.
@@swpdisciple john and Malone rarely didn't play together and hes what number 2 i believe in scoring and stock number 1 in assist plus they were durable ash which would also increase those numbers and the amount of games Stock missed it is believable he'd be killing Kidd in steals jus playing passing lanes especially since him and Malone are the most durable people you'll ever see look at the pg before Stockton they were scorers in college then when signed by Jazz they were averaging low points a shit ton of assists and getting more steals put Stock on another team Malone wouldn't be number 2 in scoring and John would at least be top 7 in scoring John was a system player plus i was alive you watch them play so most the stuff Rusty said i already knew the boring game style is why i never really watched Jazz also i didnt say IT could make any team a 50 win team cause i clearly said the whole team was pure defenders or elite 2 ways being led by IT and DumarsCP3 had a great team in LA and Houston but was to injury prone and never made it far
Ray Burks Stockton was a system player to a degree but he’d still be good anywhere. He had enough of the mark price/Steve Nash archetype in his game where he’d likely be 17/8 for his career with high steals and efficiency a bit lower. Two points: Carlos boozer/deron Williams played the same role in the late 2000’s and put up similar numbers to Malone/Stockton but not quite. I’d say the difference was due to Malone/Stockton’s talent. Second point: in the 1997 western conference finals when the jazz appeared dead in the water, Stockton scores like 17 points in the 4th including the game winner to send them to the finals. He could score, but that wasn’t his role in general. 13 points on .515 shooting to me me is better than say IT averaging 19pts on .456. It’s just a matter of preference I suppose.
@@swpdisciple Stockton was a scorer turned passer by the Jazz any other team he'd average over 20 points he was a great scorer but he could never show case it in Utah due to the gameplan which was John gets the ball pass to Malone and he scores that shiz only the Utah coach at the time did if I'm correct he got fired i don't remember cause i don't follow the Jazz but if John was put on a team like Lakers or Celtics he would've been ur utilized as a scorer like in college
Not a fact Westbrook made the finals to and has way better all around numbers with k.d his efficiency and turnovers Is Westbrook’s biggest flaws he also has an mvp where Stockton doesn’t so yes Westbrook is better
FragsToNice please stop John Stockton is better , John Stockton is the Alltime leader in assists and steals . Nobody in their right mind would put westbrook ahead of John Stockton rn .
FragsToNice bc westbrook has an mvp he’s better stop your logic makes no sense . So Derrick Rose is better than Isiah Thomas and Dwyane Wade according to your logic
My opinion this list is bias on some stats and “playoff importance” as you don’t look at how good all around player or defends player is, as I’m not gonna say this is terrible but there is a lot of bias on what do you call someone better, is player better due efficiency and consistent play on both side or awards with championship and high point scoring with high stats.
frl. he didnt put jason williams on here when he fathered kidd and nash. look at his highlights and you’ll see that he was literally, best passer in nba history
John Stockton: All time assist leader, all time steal leader, 55/4800 NBA players in points all time, two finals appearances, played 19 seaons (Lebron has played 20 seasons so far) and never missed the playoffs, five western conference finals appearances, selected to play on the dream team. So just think about that... There's around 4800 NBA players all time, Stockton is 55th in points, 1st in steals, and 1st in assists. That's legend shit.
I was surprised to not see Allen Iverson on the list. I'd also rank Bob Cousy, who led the league in assists for 8 consecutive seasons while winning 6 titles and an MVP, over Westbrook.
@@campusportal9718 a pg job is to be a playmaker not jus pass playmakers set up plays for themselves and the team a great example is curry he was a scorer in college the Jazz system is what made him a passer any other team he would've average 23+ due to his durability and scoring abilty he had but never used in Utah
Ray Burks bruh you stupid point guards don’t always need to score they make plays for their team meaning if he had to pass he passes. All you guys just care about the ppg. Its like you’re saying that point guards must have atleast 20ppg just to be in the top 10. Its like saying stockton nash kidd who are all pass first should not be in the top 10
@@gaarou8231 are you stupid or jus dumb? Did you read a single thing i said or jus comment? Playmakers don't jus pass they set up plays for themselves and the team i said this they mix scoring and passing like i said a perfect example is Curry Magic and CP3 if you only pass you're not a playmaker you're jus Rondo
ya point on stockton is crazy (him playing with Malone) you can't say that when Steph been playing with numerous all stars and Stockton a true point guard he need to be higher
It's TRUE russ is different animal compared to russ theres no quit in russ 1000 mph on 365 days a yr d rose athleticism was not out of control like russ
The fact that Bob Cousy isn’t on this list considering his accomplishments (MVP, 13 time all star, 6 TIME CHAMPION) and his incredible impact on the game of basketball (revolutionized the PG position, first modern style of play, first volume scoring point guard) is outrageous but otherwise it’s a good list LOW keep it up
Yeah but it’s hard to include him because unlike a lot of their nba legends, you can’t see a scenario where Bob Cousy could thrive in the NBA past the year 1980, let alone make the league.
Ashanti Nyongo that’s a fair point but this isn’t listing the ten most athletic or most purely talented PGs of all time I don’t think it’s a list of the best NBA PGs in NBA history
i think you may be a little high on russ. of course, his amazing hustle and rebounding on top of very good playmaking and passing speak for himself, even though you have to mention stat padding. but that point aside, his weaknesses are obvious and blatant: he tourns the ball over like none other, has throughout most of his career had poor descision making and is ridiculously inefficient. paired with his lack of post-season success relative to his expectations, i dont think he is any better than a guy like gary payton
5 through 10 is honestly pretty interchangeable, the top 4 though are spot on until Steph Curry gets a bit more accolades and acclaim towards his end years.
Solid list. I disagree with some of the placement (I'd have Nash higher, West lower mainly) but this things are opinions for the most part. I'm also surprised you got CP3 so high. Lastly, Curry does have a very real shot at tipping this list. It isn't a sure thing, but if he rattles off a couple more chips in the next 5 years, that'd be huge. More likely, the decline sets in and the Dubs set in to the middle of the pack. But I think its possible they make a serious run over the next couple years (if things like... get back to normal). Anyway, great vid. Thanks for the great content!
I would take Isiah Thomas as my PG in any playoff series if Magic Johnson wasnt available. The guy was a bully while being the smallest player on the court most of the time. A winner at any cost #respect
CP3 will always be the best true point guard I've ever seen, Mr Naismith probably created him and said "there will be a this game will turn into a sport where several flashy selfish players will play" and Chris Paul came to life
It’s a pretty good list but maybe Tony Parker should be here for example instead of Westbrook no? I mean Westbrook is really good but he just has flashy stats and a good athleticism while Parker is a 4x NBA champion and a finals MVP...
Merlin Lipin if you’re really focusing on careers yes he is but Westbrook is a better player simple he would be top 5 due to his skill but no success in the post season
