You're on to something there. In reality the robot testing is benign with certain things like shaft weight and heel/toe weighting. The human will react to these things and the robot won't. It also swings on the same plane all the time. If you have a in to out swing and hit driver slightly out towards the toe it will go a mile. The robot performs well hitting directly out of the middle of the face because the plane is completely perfectly on one axis of rotation.
I always found someone just hitting balls as kind of a pretty unscientific way of testing equipment due to biases and other variables, even if they felt they were being totally fair. Maybe can get something with a meta analysis of all the reviews but meh.
This same Driver 3 wood analysis would be interesting with Driver - Mini Driver to see when the trade off happens. At 90 MPH the driver starts to take the lead but what would that number be for a Mini driver? Very cool video Matt!
I have a really fast swing speed but just cannot keep driver straight. My average distance for driver is about 270yds but very rarely on the fairway. Average distance with 3wood is 250yds and very consistently straight. So guess which one I leave at home, driver.
I think it was Ian Fraser from TXG who did some tests and unequivocally determined a shorter or choked-up driver is a much smarter choice. Not to mention one has a huge choice of drivers and only a couple of mini-drivers. Or, as the video says, tee it up low and hit slightly down on it. Very accurate and on hard fairways you don't even lose that much distance
Like the results in your video, my understanding was square grooves were "banned" because they retain spin better in the rough. The ban was more about negating the benefits of the bomb and gauge trend from long hitters more than anything else.
I love this!!!!! The amount of info out of a 20 min vid is incredible I’d love a whole series of this esp for new drivers rolling out next year more unbiased data the better awesome video man!
Would love to see the results on different golf balls for lower swing speed golfers. I'm 63 and don't get much and I use whatever ball I find in the woods looking for mine. Does it really make a difference. Love this video, thanks to both you and Gene Parente from Golf Laboratories.
What a good test! Accurate, informative information. The best test I've ever seen on RU-vid. Thanks to Mr. Short Game and Gene for such a quality video.
@MrShortGame -- you missed a couple key variables in Driver vs 3-wood. #1 - for all those short hitters, they should be hitting a 15° driver. It transformed my wife's game. Now when she miss-hits it, she has enough backspin to get a decent shot. The 3-wood has almost no forgiveness compared to a high-launch driver for short hitters.
I think one thing we need to revisit is the final test with the Driver vs 3wood. If you swing your Driver 80mph you probably only swing your 3wood 75mph. You typically won't swing those two clubs the exact same speed.
Agreed. You’d ideally test them at the same length to determine how much distance is determined by loft. Maybe they were able to adjust for that to equalize club head speed but it wasn’t clear to me. But that wouldn’t necessarily matter to the individual player - you can only swing your hands so fast. Seems a good compromise for slower swing speed golfers is a high lofted driver.
Not really true. A ton of people swing driver slower than 3 wood. Modern driver is a counter intuitive golf club. Ask me how I know. I I’ve seen 120 with driver. But I’ll the to “ steer “ it around 110. I can hit 112-115 with 3 wood almost 100 % of the time
Yes, and it goes beyond that, too. Unlike the robot, we don't hit the sweetspot every time. The driver has a bigger sweetspot. If ppl are hitting 3w easier and farther than driver, it's almost certainly because their driver is not set up correctly for them. (It can also be mental, of course) They probably just need their driver set up shorter/higher loft. I'm a little surprised these guys wouldn't consider these other variables before jumping to, "take driver out of the bag." The advantage of 3w should just be hitting off the ground.
Question--3wd vs driver. Drivers are traditionally longer so when you swing speed of 60 with the 3 wd the driver would swing on average 2-5 mph faster. The distances are probably closer when actual speed with the longer vs shorter shaft.
That driver vs 3 wood data was shocking! Fantastic video all around. If we could delve deeper into that with different length/type shafts and maybe factor in a mini driver too someday that would be awesome. Maybe a lot of us don’t have to fall for the manufacturers’ driver marketing gimmicks anymore lol 😅
The distance charts will definitely come in handy when out golfing with friends who ask for recommendations now I can take their swing speed into account, I love that feeling of helping someone find the best club and they just let it rip look back and ask if I seen that
One of the greatest, most useful videos ever! Especially using 90 mph driver swing speed. Please do a similar one for irons shoeing face contact and "modern" lofted vs traditional lofted 7 irons. Thank you!
great video! The consistency of the non-conforming wedge grooves was very interesting. Very informative, but I end up with even more questions about shaft length, shaft flex, ball compression, ball covering.
Matt this helped me decide a lot. Just spent time this evening in the sim looking for a 3 wood. I’m 55 and my swing speed is between 101.6-105.3. Thanks for the awesome data
This has got to be the best golf video on the Internet. It's about as fact based as you can get. Sure there are a lot more variables but this video gives us the basic data. and is clear about the real world implications. For example, now I know why I hit my 3 wood farther than my driver. Give us more like this!
mr sg, one thing to mention is if your swinging 70 mph w/ your 3 wood then your swinging probably amlmost 80 w/ your driver. the two clubs dont swing at the same speed, mine are about 8 mph apart. 105 vs about 93 on my skytrak.
Perfect. Would you please consider a video with this robot being used to test today's drivers with the older (say 2016 and older drivers?) With the limits on COR I can't imagine the new drivers today hitting it further. I'm sure many would say the new drivers have better ball control but with this robot that can be answered also.
Great info, especially the driver vs 3 wood. Working backwards from your distances I probably swing just over 80 mph. Unfortunately my accuracy with 3 woods has been worse than with any of my drivers so I'll stick with driver until I can find a 3 wood that works for me. (I can't afford new clubs so I end up playing second/thrift store hand roulette.)
@@Shmeeps_phd There's no way to tell that for certain without seeing the actual data from the Quad. I assumed that they were moving the robot arm at the same speed for both clubs. They just calibrate it for the desired driver head speed and then change between the clubs. That would result in a slower clubhead speed for the 3W. Even at the slower speed, the 3W still might give you greater distance because of differences in the geometry of the clubhead.
@@hjlamb That's not how the data was presented. And they're using another device to measure club speed so it's kind of implied that they're swinging with the same club head speed. If they weren't, I see no reason to present the data the way they did since they'd have the relative club head speed data available.
That was a great video! I wish they would have added the difference in distance between a Mini Driver and regular Driver for the different swing speeds.
Excellent video. Confirmed 2 things for me. Tee height and eliminating my 3 wood. I carry a driver, 5W and 7W. Now - if I could only find that elusive magic putter.
I was always told that a hit toward the toe with the driver will tend to draw back, due to the gear effect, while a heel hit tended to slice. Your expert said just the opposite. Which is true? My toe hits with the driver do seem to draw a bit rather than slice.
Many thanks to Gene and Matt. This is info that confirms my experience. The analysis from Gene is priceless. I tee low to hit and choke down 1” on my driver instead of hitting my 3 wood. Dead straight, 3 wood distance and no swing change. Not get that robot to deal with a 17 year old brain that says, if you hit it slightly harder this 5 wood will make the green! Sometimes I wish I had both a 3 and a 5.
I have let men and women young and old try my 42 inch driver on the range. 12deg and Jumbo Max grip. They all love it. I even gave my 7 iron with a jumbo max grip to a beginner young teenage girl. It instantly shortened her long floppy swing
Great video really solid information took my three out of bag two years ago and haven’t miss it once swing speed of 95 mph. Just straight up great helpful content, thank you
What was the loft of the driver? I suspect that if players with slower swing speeds moved to a higher-lofted driver (12 or more) the 3 wood advantage would disappear. Gene points to the shorter length of the 3 wood, but there is no rule that you can't use a driver with a shorter shaft.
Man what a cool video I never would have thought those old wedges actually would do better with water amazing, in all the information on hit points on a driver so cool
Great information. Gene is a great resource. Would love to see more content with you both👍 QuadMAX Launch Monitor The GCQuad set the industry benchmark for launch monitors. Now, the QuadMAX™ - built on the same advanced four-camera photometric data capture technology - packs even more features into its compact, ruggedized form factor. The new benchmark is here. Add-ons: Essential Putting Analysis $2,500.00 $19,999 😮
Great video with some good data to back the test claims! Be interesting to also understand in the Driver vs. 3 Wood comparative, 1) were the clubs the same generation and manufacturer? 2) were shafts on both clubs the same specs? 3) what was the turf condition to consider total distance vs. carry? Carry would have been more realistic.
This is one of the best instructional golf videos I’ve see. I’m 78 and I often feel I hit my three wood off the ground further than my driver off the tee. Now I believe it. The driver is coming out of the bag so I force myself to hit the three wood. Thanks for this information.
What was the loft of the Driver? If you use a driver with a loft of 14 15 or 16 degrees, you get more distance. Maybe you are just considering a driver with these lofts a very large headed 3 wood? A comparison with a 5 wood would have been interesting as well.
Fantastic video, thank you so much. I have one question. When you tested driver against 3 wood were both clubs swung at the same speed? The reason I ask is I have a driver with a 46" length and I can swing it 90 mph, but I can't swing my 3 wood that fast because of the shorter shaft.
Outstanding stuff here...thank you Mr Short Game! One question, why did you stop at 90 mph swing speed? Would love to see the date for 100 & 110 mph swing speeds. Thanks again, really enjoyed this segment!
With the driver vs 3 wood comparison. It'd be good to know the loft on both clubs. I can imagine a 12° driver would perform better than an 8° driver at the lower swing speeds etc.
It would seem that v-grooves are better built for friction if there is no intervening moisture or moist material such as rough coming between the ball and the face. However, I can see a scenario where the u-grooves will "swallow" some of the moisture and/or excess material and allow better contact (even if slightly indirect) with the groove adges, producing more friction overall so this makes sense to me. Cheers.
I always hit my 3w straighter off the tee which had me keeping the driver in the bag until I finally started to really work on my driver and straightened it out I am in that 85 mph swing and starting to increase speed as I have improved my swing and gotten my lower body into my swing
I re-grooved a Cleveland Be-Cu PW with a dremill multi tool to make the grooves 2mm wide and 2mm deep , (approx) . In bounce games for a laugh i would , from the rough , downwind and down hill , spin the ball to a stop or back it up from a tight fairway lie around 30feet on the greens . Great trick for an amateur (3hc) and nobody ever guessed the "trick" grooves.
Great vid. For slower swing speeds, a driver with 13 degrees of loft should have been used. I find a drivers larger face makes it far easier to hit than a smaller faced 3w
Good video. As others have stated, the driver is going to be 2-3 inches longer than a 3w and have less loft. At slower speeds loft is your friend getting the ball into the air. Also faster you swing, the longer club will always go further because it can generate more club head speed. Lets be honest, how many amateur golfers are actually centering their 3w on a consistent basis?
For the driver vs, 3W test, were you hitting off tees of the same height, and in the same ball position, or do you move the 3aW back in the stance a bit and tee it a little lower?
Just a caveat on the 3 wood vs driver. It is really a conversation about loft vs speed. If you swing slower you need more loft to create spin to keep the ball in the air. You would be better off getting a shorter driver with higher loft if you are struggling with it at lower speeds. 3 wood is a smaller head so the "more accurate" thing is a misnomer. There is a bigger sweet spot on a driver but if you do not have enough speed to create spin, the ball will almost never fly straight unless the strke is perfect. More loft = more spin = more consistency + shorter length = more accuracy which can be acheived with a driver head as well.
The greatest amount of spin will be generated with a club face with no grooves. No grooves means more contact area and therefore more friction, analogous to using slicks (no tread) on racing tires. The main purpose of the grooves is to channel away water. The grooves likely also help with grass between the ball and the club face (?).
This was really helpful information. I would have liked to have seen 95 with the driver since that's the average swing speed; not sure why they didn't go there.
Hey there. If you ever get to Arizona again, you should go to Francisco Grande golf course in Casa Grande, Arizona. It plays to a little over 7500 yards from tips. The driving range is dirt, because well, it’s desert. It’s a nice course and fairly challenging.
interesting on the wedge, when the wedges were shown in the sec test, wet, there was a 48 degree 7,834 and a 46 degree 10,329, huh ! Low spin loft: A lower spin loft results in a lower spin rate and less backspin. High spin loft: A higher spin loft results in a higher spin rate, but shots with a spin loft over 45° tend to lose spin. Interesting.
great video.! I am at 83MPH on my driver. I fall exactly at the driver or 3 wood point. I guess I should just get a 3 wood. Now I need to go find a non conforming wedge. Where do we get that at?
Cool info! I would like to have seen a test of a driver head installed on a 3-wood shaft. I've done this myself on the course and it seems like a wonderful combo for me. I'm a bit older (57) and have lost a little speed over the years, so any little bit of help I can get is welcome.
Can you do something similar for swing speeds from 95-120. I’m trying to get up to that 120 point and wondering what I should be hitting at my current speeds. Also maybe robot test with balls only to see soft vs like higher end Pro V or Bridgestone or Vice pro. Stuff like that I’m wondering at what speed is it better to not play a softer ball.
Over half your shots will be putts or chips so choose the ball with predictable and repeatable outcomes. Don't play the ball that checks up hard simetimes and releases sometimes.
@@Handletaken4 yeah I was just thinking for different scenarios. Like par 3’s to play differently than a par 5. Hence why I asked for that difference in the swing speeds. I’m currently over the speed they did the testing with so I’m curious about the speeds on which I hit at.
This was awesome! Next round I will compare teeing it higher than I do now. I avg. 90mph with the driver, I don't even take my 3 wood to the course, I have a 3 hybrid when I absolutely have to hit a fairway (more wishful thinking than reality anyway). I'll dust the 3 wood off and give it another shot :-)
I take driver testing with a grain of salt on most videos. The pros don’t swing like me and especially when comparing different brands. This is how it should be but I understand it’s probably not possible unless a robot is available. Great video 👍🏽
