You should have reported them to FAA if they are renting airplane that they know has trouble. Sounds like they screwed you! Should report to Better Business!
I'm an aviation mechanic in the US Army, and it's astounding to see how many mechanics on the civilian side don't understand the impact maintenance has on a pilot and his/her crew if present. It really is life or death and a maintainers failure to properly secure lockwire or a small cotter pin can take lives. A lot of these mistakes, like a faulty fuel gauge, are often overlooked by the schools because you get what you pay for in maintainers and it's extremely unfortunate how it happens that way. If you notice a trend with your school where maintenance is hit or miss and daily/hourly/monthly inspections, don't touch it with a ten foot pole.
Ristan Jones That's right. But sometime when you are flying these school actually makes you believe it's our fault. I soloed 35 hours and all my friends in the school was around the same. So we started to believe its normal to solo in your 30-40 hr mark. Then we realised we all getting scammed.. Haha.. Well done though to solo in 10 hrs..
Ristan Jones. Clearly I went to a great school - soloed at 5h45m and qualified in 39h20m (which included 9 conversions for fun, subsequent hiring and later purchase of one. Also four hours of IFR training not part of PIC course.) Reading your, and later, tales of woe I better go back to the school to sing their praises!
I soloed at 45 hours. But it was weather related. My school's SOPs had strict solo requirements so my instructor moved me on to cross country and night flying before I soloed.
Very good tips. Man,I would have bailed on that school!! I learned on a Cessna 150 and 172. I soloed somewhere in the low thirties, and got my license in the mid 60’s Reasonable times. I rarely had plane availability problems. I had a reasonably good instructor. There was some of the attitude of “ I’m mainly here for the hours.” Teaching is a special skill. I love teaching. Never thought flying but similarly sailing larger ocean yachts. And SCUBA diving. If you are not passionate about teaching, it shows. But wow, never had the kind of problems that you were talking about. Again thanks for the vids.
Inaccurate is probably better than inoperative, especially if you stick the tanks. I also drive heavy rigs which have the same problem. Of all the gauges, the one you never trust is fuel.
I’m your 3rd thumbs up before I even watch the video. The sad thing is that the majority of them will cheat lie and scam you. I’m sure that keeps many people from being a pilot that otherwise would be. Been all over the country and heard or seen stuff that is just down right dishonest. From flight instructors that you have to pull knowledge from to being charged Hobbs meter time that is not accurate. If the engine is not running I should not be paying.
omg! I went solo at 13hrs, sorry you got scammed. I trained in a C152 for my Private, you had a very nice aircraft to train in. Great advice for new students, good job.
A common experience for many Black students . I know what I am talking about . Some schools / flight instructors kill the dreams of many future pilots .
@ 140 hours, you should straight up call your school a damn scam, that's outrageous! - Problem cases who barely try should be done in half that time. someone like you who seems interested and seeming like you were actually trying. should have been done in 40-60 hours. Hell the school I am at right now just had someone ready at 38 hours but had to just get those last two hours just cause the FAA requires it. 140 sounds like they were pick pocketing you without you realizing it.
Times have changes, you used to be ready to solo as in as little as 10hours, and get your certificate in 40, but average was 15/50. I think maybe instructor are intentionally stretching it out so they can mane more money. A friend of mine was in the nave and they had to solo in six hours, or be drops.
Thanks for posting an honest review. I'm really sorry that they took advantage of you like that. I was a customer there briefly before I spotted some of the same practices you pointed out (i.e. bogus cancellation policies, pushing pilots and instructors to fly despite weather and even airworthiness concerns). I went into shared ownership after that experience and found it to be *far* more enjoyable. There's no pressure to go fly to save money, no daily minimums, no students beating the airplane up, and very little scheduling competition. You can also pick your own flight instructor (i.e. you're not stuck with those on the school's roster), and you have visibility and a stake in the maintenance of the airplane (i.e. you don't have to worry about a flight school owner cheaping out and putting your life at risk to save a buck). It requires more effort on your part to comply with regulations and maintain airworthiness, and it also costs more money up front, but it's possible to save money over renting if you fly a lot and take good care of the plane. Renting might be the right thing for you right now, but thought I'd share that alternative. Anyway, I hope you found a new school or arrangement where you can truly enjoy flying the way it should be enjoyed! Keep on flying!!
I luckily had a very different experience. I first soloed at 27 hours (43 days) and it was a complete surprise. My instructor had no radio, he got out and said go fly and I was cut off in the pattern on my first go round. I proudly wore that ripped shirt all day, It felt better than sex. I received my private pilot certificate at 71 hours (122 days start to finish). At the time 172's were $35 to $40 wet Hobbs time and instructors were $10 -$15 per hour and that was at a fairly major airport Teterboro (TEB) ----------------------------------------------------------------1982!
One recommendation I would add: never buy “block time” during training, or any time. Block time “seems” like a good deal because the hourly rate is discounted. But all you are doing is giving the FBO or training facility money up front, and tying yourself to them. My case: training for instrument rating at a Part 61 school in central NJ, circa mid 1990s. Picked school because it was close. Over time, MX deteriorated, my instructor unavailable, continued MX issues, my instructor working to build time for airlines. Instructors began to leave for no reason, with no backfill. Started getting questions as to if I was going to buy more block time and how soon (major red flag). Facility appearance, aircraft readiness, etc continued to decline. My instructor left and I was assigned another one, who wanted multiple flights to “finish me up.” I pulled the plug when my last block ran out. Within 60 days the school folded. My block time funds were keeping the place afloat! I finished my rating at an Air Force flying club within 45 days. Pay as you go, especially at Part 61 schools, is the way to go.
I agree, unless you are dealing with a very very reputable flight academy. A well established national academy. One that is not going to disappear with your money.
My fight school has actually been really good about keeping things progressing smoothly, I am on track to do my check-ride at just over 40 hours, which is more than the 35 minimum for Part 141. I distinctly remember my first solo, walked in, my instructor told me to prepare for my solo, signed my logbook, we did the 3 landings dual and then I was sent up. It's been an exciting time in life.
Part of your training is to kno w how to check n see if you're a/c is airworthy! Wil be asked on you flt check guaranteed! So go over it with your student on a dsy you cant fly...
why did you keep flying without waiting for the gas gauge to be fixed, and that kid shouldve said my lesson was for x time and you dont have a working plane call me back when you do
They were charging him if he had refused to fly he was still going to pay for it.....and they never tell you the plane is not ready you just have to be there on time or they will say you were not here on time and still charge you for it.......
You bring up a lot of valid points. I am currently a CFI at a flight school in baltimore maryland for the last 10 years. Listening to you made me very happy to work where I do. We don't do any of the things you listed. I am a career CFI, so i'm not looking to move on the the airlines. The great thing about my school is that the boss will fire anyone who doesn't put the student's needs first. We of course have a cancellation policy, but we never charge a student if the weather is bad...that's just how this industry works. What we do do is, if a student cancels withing 24 hours, we charge them for 1 hour of the instructor's time if they are a chronic canceller (sp?) but not the airplane rental. Good video.
How do you like the life of the "Career CFI"? I am an Instrument Pilot working towards Commercial / CFI and not really interested in working for the airlines. I have been considering the Career CFI life as I enjoy teaching and feel I do well with it. It seems like a flexible, "Make-Your-Own-Schedule" sort of deal, which is what my current career in Aviation is. Though it also seems like it can be stressful and not for everyone. I know CFI's who seem to burn out easily. Hoping to pick your brain if you're okay with it. Blue skies and clear air!
Dave Stewart Yeah Don and I noticed that you said your career CFI which means that there’s no conflict of interest. How do we all know that if you were interested in flying for the airline that your tune wouldn’t change and you wouldn’t rip off students?
It isn't about your hours, but if you know you've been ready for a long time (like since 10 hours) fire them. I've had 2 PPL students so far, and soloed them both under 10. They each got their check ride sign-offs at 40.0 hours TT part 61. A good instructor shouldn't take 26 hours to solo someone. The other possibilities are A) you're actually very bad in which case, the instructor should decline further service; maybe flying isn't meant for you, or more likely B) the instructors style doesn't match with you and he/she should recommend you to try someone else's teaching style and pass you off to a different CFI.
Your instructor should have multiple teaching styles and techniques. If they haven't tried a couple days to demonstrate or teach a maneuver, they probably aren't very good. It's basic FOI. Find a new CFI.
Dude! I wished I’ve seen this five years ago. What you said about flight school and cfis are so true. I got milked by my school and instructors that I had to leave to go to another school (70 hours) before I could get my private certificate. Instructors will make or break you. After I left my previous school and when to a new school, it took me 11hrs to get my private. The reason for the 11 hrs was because I came from yoke to stick. For my instrument ticket; I got it done in 51 hrs ( the minimum require hrs) with my new instructor. Now I’m working on my commercial at another flight club and my instructor is incredible!!!! I just started watching your video and and looks like you live in the Atlanta area.. I saw that you was at the Pdk airport in one of your video and it looks like you are flying da40 that is rented by falcon aviation. If so... I would love to link up with you and go flying with you sometime... Great videos by way.
Something similar happened to me in Clearwater Florida during my instrument training. The story of what happened to me is kind of long and drawn out with alot of details. To shorten things considerably, I filed a complaint with the FAA, the Federal Trade Commission, Better Business Bureau ( which really is a joke) and I cc'd a copy to the Attorney General. The responses I got stated that an investigation was underway. After that, I heard very little about the complaint. After a few years had went by, I found out that several students saw my complaint somewhere and it got the ball rolling for more complaints to be filed. I thought I was the only one this was happening to but apparently it was happening to someone else. The end result?? Well that particular flight school/ FBO is no longer operating under the old name anymore and supposedly has new management. I have not been back since so im not really sure what happened, but I do know that after I filed that complaint, the name of the FBO changed. I wish you well in your training.
Anybody now about a flight school or flight instructor in new york or anyother state close to new york like ct , nj it can be upstate too pls lmk thanks .
Facing the same troubles mate. Symptoms are too identical to what you've just mentioned.. They care only about their hours n future airline jobs.. These kinda attitudes actually kill the aviation industry itself..
I did a demo flight at this school. The place is very depressing and isn't run very well. I went to a place at the Torrance airport and it was an amazing experience. I will be doing my training there.
appreciate it that you guys named the school. Also live in the So Cal area, this was one of the schools I was considering. What do you think of Whiteman Airport?
hey there just seen your video i like your videos but you really got screwed with your flight school. i live in Oklahoma and i found the best way for me was i found a cfi and who opened his own little flight school but he was retired American airlines main flight instructor and he did it because of the passion for flying and wanted others to learn . i did mine in 2014 i learned in a C.172 i was paying $118.00 per hour for the plane and paid my cfi $25.00/hr. flight time and $10.00/hr. classroom the best personality you feel so relaxed and enjoy flying you make a mistake no problem i soloed at 18hrs.took my written at 40hrs was so happy passed it first try. so to me i feel that is one option you should tell people is just find a good cfi not really worry about a school where you are truly one on one.
During my PPL training, I solo'd a 1975 Piper Warrior 18PE ( ill miss that plane!!) at just 9 hours. I was lucky to have the instructor I had. He was a furloughed American Airlines type rating instructor and held type ratings in the MD-80/88, 737-600/800, Cessna Citation V and a few others. He also holds rotor wing and sea plane endorsements. What I wanted to add was that while I did my PPL training in Tampa Florida, I knew of another student pilot who went to the same FBO. The poor guy had over 85 hours in the same plane mentioned above and hadn't soloed yet!!! My instructor actually complained to the FBO about the dishonesty of the guys instructor and nothing happened. Apparently, the FBO was fine with this as they only cared about raking in profits. I do understand business but there must be a balance in the business model otherwise it will fail. The end result was the same, the FBO changed names and management. Even the airport name changed though that was a decision of the aviation authority.
thats how mine is, they dont charge you until the plane is turned on, and you pay after each session, bad weather or need to cancel and scheduled training session, as long as you let them know , its all good, they will only charge you if you just flake and dont communicate which sounds fair because a no communication no show can really screw up schedule flow and hold up other people,
If they were flying that airplane with an inoperative fuel gauge, they were operating outside of CFR 14 91.205(b)(7) which requires a fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank. Never mind that they wouldn’t let you solo it, they weren’t even legal to be flying that airplane in the first place. Bad on them. There’s a lot of rules to follow, so every once and a while we all make mistakes, but this mistake went on for a while it sounds like. If a flight school consistently operated outside the regs like this, I would not engage with them at all. Clearly they are not the place to be developing as an aviator.
That's a x country and you should have planned it in advance. FLying so the instructor and fool around, that's crooked. My instructor soloed me in 5.5 hours at a controlled field. I got my PP in exactly 40 hours. The problem with young CFI's is they want to build time. So, you're there to learn to fly, not to do hour building for some a.h. cfi.
Biggest scam: "we have newer planes at our flight school dont trust those dirty steam gauge planes 😮".. I fell for it when I was 18.. hence why I'm a broke pilot 12 years later!
If you were ready to solo then you should’ve known you shouldn’t have been flying without a functional fuel gauge. If they keep flying with it, report it to FAA. That’ll get it fixed. Just remember if they aren’t worried about a fuel gauge then they probably aren’t fixing other things either.
I had many of the same frustrations as you had. I started at KSMO. It was close to home and that is critical in LA. My first instructor was new and I don’t think he really knew how to teach very well. Especially someone my age. I was in my late 50’s at the time. He seemed overly critical to me. He really could not really explain to me how to land the plane. I started looking for help on RU-vid videos. I actually tried another flight school. That instructor was more my age and ready to get me soloed as soon as possible. I should have stayed there. But I didn’t like the older planes and it was so far away. I decided I could not deal with the commute. I went back KSMO. I had10 hours and the school sold me on getting my Private Pilots license instead of Sport. So I had to change instructors. But I was making some real progress. Then I lost that flight instructor when he went to Spain to train for a couple of weeks. So I waited. For three months. Then he got hired by an airline and was gone. I had 12 hours with him. I tried to bring up my frustrations with the manager but he was really unsympathetic. They offered zero help in finding me a new instructor. So I went back to the original instructor. I really wanted to fly and get some hours. After not flying for 3 months I was very rusty. But he still was not a good fit. I had about another 7 hours with him. I kept asking who was a good instructor. I thought I found the right guy. He was good. I started to make real progress in a couple flights. Then he decided to drop me because he was overloaded with other students. I had forty hours of time invested in this school and I still had not soloed. Two months later I found myself flying a Sling down in Torrance. These guys are a really good school. The aircraft was similar to the Sport Cruiser I had done most of my training in. The flight instructor quickly had me comfortable with the plane and felt I was ready to solo. Unfortunately, life got in the way and my budget was gone and my income dried up. I have 53 hours of flight time. I have spent the last year rebuilding to get myself to a place where I can afford to fly regularly again and I may even be able to afford my own plane. That’s the dream, right? I think I’m going to focus on a Sports Pilots license and then work on the PPL. Your videos have been very inspiring. Thanks and keep up the good work.
The only "joy ride" I got to do during my training was because my CFI recognized that I was so nervous that I needed to have some fun. That "joy ride" was my break thru flight. I relaxed after that flight and stopped having to repeat lessons. My training prior to my "joy ride" was lean on thing and repeat the next few flights. The "joy ride" was about hour 10 of my training.
I'm in the middle of my private pilot training at SoCal right now, and wish I would have watched these videos sooner. I feel like these guys are nickel and diming me at every turn. My instructor really doesn't prep me for the lesson of the day. He just kinda lets me flounder until I say "Ok, what do I do now?" Maybe it's just his style of teaching, who knows. If I switch schools now I'll probably end up wasting more money. Just gonna get to my PPL and go somewhere else for my instrument.
Oh Oh. I rem saying the same thing Nick. I was at 60 hrs and I thought if i stayed at Socal, I would get my PPL between 80 and 100 hours. They kept me flying until 140 hours, and even then I was told i wasn't ready for the checkride exam. Needless to say I passed my exam at the first GO. Listen, if you notice any of the crap I mentioned in the video, LEAVE!
Extremely useful information Mike, this is the kind of thing that many professional instructors in many disciplines engage in. It’s really good of you to both advise and share your own experience. Thank you. Paul
Very informative; I’m looking for flight instructions via a flight school or private CFI with Cessna 172 rental cost at $120 or lower hourly in the Atlanta GA area. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
That was an eye opener - wow, I feel gutted for your experience. I'm at just under 19 hours and coming up to solo - got a couple more things to check off the list. I might have been at solo just under 20 hours, but where wind conditions have meant circuits weren't really beneficial to my progress but it's still flyable we've gone off and done something else listed AFTER solo in my training schedule. Yesterday being a perfect example - could have signed off on the final items for solo but we went off and did PFLs for an hour instead. Sounds like I'm pretty fortunate that I picked a good school in the first place - I researched 6 in the area, eliminated 2 based on distance and settled with the one I use because reputation, the fact they have 4 C172s, the way they charge and how upfront they are both online and when talking to them. They're actually the most expensive of the 6, but when I factor in travel costs, the membership fees etc they'll end up being the cheapest. There was one school I rejected straight away - they charge landing fees separately (they're included in my club membership). Not too bad if you're doing standard flight, but when you're doing 6, 7, 8 circuits in a lesson landing fees could end up costing as much as the lesson itself! Maybe some more material for another video for you ;)
Yep, it it true. I have been taken also. Has one CFI in the that would always take the controls from me and yes, we did go on joy rides. He would yell at me if I forgot a checklist item and then take the airplane away from me for the almost the rest of the flight. He would milk the run-up time. I was a sucker to be taken. I complained and they fired him. Also, I had another CFI that would charge me an extra 30 minutes just to sign my log book and state two sentences. It also seems the school skimp on maintenance. I can not believe it. Like bald tires with chord showing or voids in the tire. Like, I do not like the looks of that tire, Landing lite not working, Fuel gages not working, Radio not working. I make sure the CFI had a portable radio as the the plane only had one radio. Sure enough it died and we used the handheld. I would get to the plan, trash in it, little fuel, dirty oil. They changed it every 100 hours. Yes, I know the 50 hours is optional but the oil was dirty. Also, the plane ran very hot, needle all they way to the left just before the red. And the VOR did not work properly. Wow. The next school I went to would not let me do any landings. Well, that sucks. I went to a different school again and They let me landing. Now I can land. Geez. It's really hard to find a good school.
I'm not sure I have ever seen any GA aircraft with accurate fuel gauge and to wet-lease a Diamond 40 with G1000 for around 150 ish...That's a pretty good price? Now the flight school is under new management and perhaps the people issue would be different now
The fuel gauge is just a polite way the say that you are not ready to solo just yet, it's not the right thing to do, but not being solo at 15 to 20 hours I will start to feel concern for my students. In South Africa, if you don't go solo by 35 hours we would submit a Safety Hazard report, reporting that a hazard has been identified and have to be dealt with by the Chief Flight Instructor and tested by a Designated Flight Examiner if you fail that test flight you get suspended for 2 years. If a flight instructor tells his/her student that he/she is not ready to solo it is in his/her best interest regarding safety. Canceling a flight on short notice just shows bad airmanship, a flight school's profit margin is roughly 6%, if slots are being missed it hurts a flight school a lot, other than that, imagine you booked a ticket for a flight at one of your regional airlines, you arrive at the terminal and at the gate the lady tells you sorry your flight has been canceled, the weather is CAVOK, the airplane is serviceable and standing ready on the ramp but the pilot called 2 hours ago and made up an excuse not to fly the sortie you won't be to happy either. However, if you cannot fly due to bad weather they shouldn't charge for a no show. CFI's are already flying commercially, they are getting paid to fly/train, typically 12-15 dollars US/hour which is a slap in the face for someone who spent $70 000 - $100 000 to get where they are now. It's a year and a half since you posted this, hope you have obtained/gain some new ratings man, all the best.
I am assuming that you were dipping the tanks before flights regardless of the gage was working or not. So, you probably should have told him you will do the same thing that you have been doing for the past many flights “dipping the tanks and calculate…”. I know two wrongs don’t make it right, but that may open their eyes and incline to fix it…
Ok, you don’t fix the gauge: I don’t fly. You don’t make money from me. Your choice. No reason not to solo in less than 20 - 25 hours. Finish in 45 - 50. Any flight school that encourages a student to fly when the weather isn’t good should be put out of business. I had a number of instructors. I had to fire one of them. The best was a career instructor about sixty years old.
Oh and this one plane I flew took about 7 attempts to get it started. It was a C-172 Carb, it was 80 degrees, first flight of the day, plenty of fuel, First flight of the day. It was something else to get it started. Then it seemed like it flew and handled like a pig. It looked ok, and passed my pre-flight inspectin but as you said, you can not see the internals. I do not understand how these planes pass the 100 hour or annual inspection. Some of the school have their own mechanics Which I think is a conflict of interest.
All I will say I wish I knew about your school before I started with the school I am now. I haven’t experienced anything like you mentioned in this video yet, I know I have a good instructor but I known his goal is to fly big birds someday. I wish they had newer airplanes to learn on. It’s kinda like learning about dinosaurs and hoping to have a good use for that knowledge lol.
I am amazed at what it costs for training today. When i started my quest to get my private license in 1966, I paid $5.00/hour (wet) for the plane (a 1959 Cessna 150) and $2.00/hour for the instructor. I soloed at 13 hours.
Great video. One of the big issue here charging for bad weather. If the weather is bad with very low ceiling, then they should not allow you fly and they should not charge you. Looks like your flight school was a fraud.
I soloed in 10 hours. Flew a 300 mile cross country in 15 hours got my liscense in about 45 hours, but that was about 50 years ago. I also used instructors with there own airplane not flight schools.
I plan on owning a flight simulator so I can keep practicing no matter what some flight school says. People should have a business like a game arcade, but for aviation enthusiasts
Jesus Christ man, why didn't you go someplace else? They rode you hard and put you up wet. I solo'd at 6 hours and had my license at 43 and that was only because I failed the first check ride on a technicality. If at 60 hours you still have not solo'd you're either getting screwed or you have no business in the air to start with.
One of the biggest scams is the flight school that has you flying a 60 year old worn out beer can, with antiquated avionics, worn out interior and barely held together; and a CFI thar has no real intension of helping you learn. While changing you premium rates. I taught myself how to fly while that blob sitting next to me did nothing.
I don't see the difference between flying dual or solo with a faulty gas gauge. You need reasonable operability in order to show the trend in the fuel level, while you know you can't count on it solely for exact measurement and need to base that on manual checks. By trend I mean while it doesn't have to be perfect it should be operable so you will know if the fuel is draining at an unnatural rate (in the case of a fuel leak) or if one tank is drained (because you have the tank usage set to L or R instead of both perhaps). This alerts you of a potential engine failure in time to adjust the tank usage to avert a forced landing. IMO they shouldn't be flying even with an instructor in a plane with inoperable fuel gauges. They're in the plane for a reason and that is as per the manufacturer. If the manufacturer wanted you to guess between cross country stops they would have just saved you the money of the installation.
The long and the short of this video, and why you didn't do it, I don't understand, but you should read up before you start flying. In the uk I soloed in 7 hours.
Sounds like flight schools are run akin to car dealerships where they try to scrounge every penny they can out of a customer but instead of the ratio of one good one to three bad in flight schools it's more like the ratio of one good one to more than five bad ones in car dealerships.
Great video! I experienced just about all those scenarios during my training. The flight school "Airline Transport Professionals" was infamous for doing that, but being older when I started learning to fly, I was able to speak up, and also made others aware of the games being played! I was actually compensated by the school with additional hours because the instructor tactics.
MojoGrip hey mike i know it’s a little late, but i’m gonna do my solo soon and iv heard that they cut the tail of your shirt is this a actual thing that happens?keep up the good work dude.
