Back in 1.09 I got into a PvP group whose rules were: No healing pots No NK No hacked items Clvl 76 (this kept a lot of hacked shit out anyways, at least at that time) The only other duels I really liked were the lvl 9 duels. Some of those guys were beasts! Crazy the power they could get from a lvl 9 character.
When we duel on hardcore the potion rule is non exitent :) dueling was with unlimited refills of full rejuvinating potions and the player who is able to burst the other before he drinks a full reju - wins. Thats how we did it 20 years ago. Barb vs barb 1.07 - version of the game
I played .08 .09 An 10 I seen there was recent reset I'm an east guy an wad always heave into PvP whats this banned skills back in the day a duel was a duel...an being slowed sucked but it's a PvP build or used to. a super fast running charge pally was a bitch to fight lol an no iron maid/slow mis sounds like ppl are getting political about fighting ...only rule was... naked...
Yeah but that was back when life lechee and mana steal worked in pvp, dont even get me started on guided arrows pierce and fuck damage reduction nova sorcs...
Literally not a single rule was around when I played most s1, 2, 3, 4 on us west. Literally all the absorb you can, full rejuvs all day, slow missiles can backfire anyway. While I would respect these new rules, I don't think I'd enjoy them. Outside of nk, everything else goes. 2 separate 1v1's going on at the same time, just run out and kill them all! It was definitely more of a king of the hill type thing. Whoever held the moor longest was best
this method is really effective gold farming, because no one can hit you until you up lvl 9, this gold cam be transferred to high lvl mule for gambling.
I used to use redvex mod which had auto aim, auto juv, and auto tp. I would gm duel but if someone in a game was bming or nk they would be in for a world of hurt. All I had to do was turn it on come in with a zon and auto aim charge strike them from across the screen. I couldnt die before juving or auto tp. Or ide come in with my smiter and auto charge them across the screen I was invisible till they were dead n the whole team i defeated would run for there bodies and all I had to do was target there name push a button and immediate death. No one wanted to mess with that.
I don't agree with the absorb. If you want to base your character to absorb as much as possible you're losing else where. but setting up to be good against specific char types and making yourself vulnerable to others. Diablo has always been pretty okay when it comes to balance, theres normally not always one end all be all build. get tired of sorcs.. try to get a lot of absorb. till a bear sorc comes and punches your teeth in. lol
What is this nonsense? :D From 1.09 to whenever, a duel/PvP is the ultimate experience in the game. You can use anything, just as the other players can. That's the idea - to be the best! Only hacks were frowned upon and people bad-mouthing, but that meant that everyone went after that guy and take their gold.
i absolutely agree with you, there should be 2 alternative set of rules, 1 for using everything and 2 with restrictions. But i wonder what is the strongest character if you can use everything ? amazon with slowing down missiles or necromancer with decripify and bone prison ?
Only rules i play by are no healing pots and make sure the other person is ready to go. After that, it's game on and kill or be killed by any means necessary. If you have build that nerfs another persons build, great, that's the whole point. But characters that are only good against one type of character are typically weak against other types of characters so it's a rock, paper, scissors type thing. Great vid. Good to see people enjoying dueling after all this time.
Personally, when I'm dueling with friends, this is typically how we do it, too. In most cases, these are the two most important things that make a duel enjoyable.
8:15 is so true. Constantly going to town before you are about to die is extremely annoying. I'd say it's considered BM if they continue to do it over and over again and just don't "want to die". It's like the ufc analogy, where at the end of the fight, the fighter who's getting stomped at the last round, just leaves the arena lol. I think it's fine for a couple times, but if it continuously happens oh man it's so aggravating
In some rule sets, it depends on the % ES you have. It's generally discouraged, DFC currently allows it, but does not allow prebuffing your ES. Has evened out so far.
Huh, so in your D4 expectations video you stated how much Blizz nailed the balance around PvP but now I hear Im supposed to avoid a good chunk of core mechanics. Mixed feelings. Glad I found this channel, btw. Best D2 content, made me reinstall.
Slowing and absorbing sounds like a strat and not BM to me. I haven't played D2 in a long time but shouldn't it be up to your opponent to figure out how to counter that?
Ya and the reason a bunch of new people wanting to legit play the game in a good manner way probably quit cause of a holes killing them and looting their stuff....... It's fun for the person with a lvl 90 char of every class but a little scummy to kill a lvl 60 or lower and pretend to be "Having Fun", probably not fun to lose hard earned stuff and either try to trade for it back or go earn it again in a game as random as D2.
@@gunzakimbo eh? This reply is equivelant to yelling POTATO during a political conversation at a dinner party. You are talking about exploiting by popping corpses? Yeah that's not what we are talking about here cowboy
rules varied a lot depending on the community you dueled with. some things were also hypocritical like slow was widely considered bm from items cause it was gearing against specific opponents, but 50% slow from clay golem was considered gm and it was way stronger. Poison charms being bm is more of a legacy thing back from when people used poison charms or undergeared opponents thought poison damage was overpowered, but in reality characters loaded up with 320s were stronger so some communities thought it was fair to allow poison builds cause they really weren't that good on the high end of things. barbs having doom on switch was considered fine where I dueled, but if there was an amazon in the game oh boy would they complain about being bm'd. sorb limit rules were also different depending on east/west servers. using charges on items was also considered gm/bm depending on the realm. in the end a lot of it was about having fun matchups reasonably balanced cause it was way too easy to get lopsided unwinnable 1v1 duels with the right setup. was less of an issue in 3v3 and 4v4.
Poison is bm because while it is easily countered, it is annoying to need another extra gear swap just because someone uses psn charms. Same with psn necros. Easily killed char, but annoying to need a new gear swap just to kill 1 l8z char.
as someone who knows nothing about pvp i wonder: ...why? why is slow missile banned, but not guided arrow? why holy freeze, but not teleport (especially pre-enigma days)? is it because if these things were allowed everyone would default to 2-3 build because they're just OP?
GM Is slow-paced, boring and takes too long to bang off duels. BM it the purest form of the 2001 shit-show that is D2 LOD. If you want the authentic feel of the game, BM is 100% the way to go xD. 2:10 as you can see, that is some good BM shit talking that makes the game fun xD.
hotspurs and tgods were always gm but dwarfs and wisps were always bm. i always got shit for using bone prison on charging paladins or amazons but imo purposely desynching in bm so fuck them. funny that IM is banned when its really only useful against 1 build of 1 class.... but decrep affects every class and its pretty debilitating for all of em
If I can’t use frozen or slower the shots, than don’t use enigma or other expensive shit. Not every one is rich. Do it equal than instead instant win every-time. If you don’t like all skills there is, than don’t duel.
Back in the day, I remember dropping junk on players' bodies and then when they would try to pick up their body and accidentally pick up the junk, I'd kill them and pop their inventories allowing me to loot their stuff.
I play this game over 15 years, i am big fan, but i never found PVP on D2 interesting. However i know and respect rules in D2 pvp, i can't deal with it. Full absorb build IS simply overpowered, and some ideas like running instead fighting are dumb, but if i can't slow down smiter, because he is IAS based build, but he can kill me easly due to desync - thats wrong if you ask me. For me PVP in every game is ability to take advantege from game mechanic, if Holy Freez slows down assa traps, it's mean this is assa counter play, and if this is how game works, it's not "BM". Great video anyway, i respect D2 PVP players for they skill and game knowledge, but i keep away from pvp on D2 :D
Idk about limiting my res or sorb…I don’t have a full inv of 3/20/20 skill 40 lifers or nigma or perf Annis or torch’s my opponent may have them but I need to go easy on my res for sportsmanship reasons? Meh…I’ve sorbed damage since it became a thing what happened on d2x to make this a thing?
I actually made the most BM type of pvp char ever, for the nkers among us (cant remember the exact items). Amazone with fastest possible attack speed, bow/gear. Knockback, bleed, crushing blow, max slow AAAND all of my poisen charms :D To be honest, it was an old mule which i made for fun :D
No absorb means no dr. Lol. Same with slow. My pally is a hammer another charger with no maxed offensive aura but uses everyy aura to beat every single build. Sorb all the elements. Block all the damage. And destroy everyone
Not slowing someone has never been a rule in any duel been doing it since 2002, being overly defensive has never been a part of GM duels. This only comes from people who get clapped by a barb.
also lol @ players who considered being defensive to be bm. learn to namelock and chase down opponents. "boxing" was also often looked down upon by some, but hey, l2p lol
People can choose to build their character how they want if they want max resist it’s on the opponent to figure out how to be versatile and not use that element that’s a ridic rule
Some of these were respected and are still to this day. Nking and saying go. But No Merc lol wtf. No holy freeze or slow lmao. Where we these rules when the game was at it's height? Maybe in small circles but the vast majority didn't get the memo. But the gear gimping is definitely newer. No one including myself respects that. If someone said I know you spent hours farming your gear and twinking your build but can you take it down a notch. I'd tell them to gfy. Never heard of absorb resist banning. There is a fire sorc build that can one shot anyone literally anyone regardless of opponents gear. It requires very specific gear but every class has that capability to be Godly. Specifically FB sorc, PsB Necro, and Bowzon, Whirlwind sin, zealsorc. People complaining about gear never dueled in open battlenet. I just go in duels with the mindset ok this guy is the paper to my rock. This other guy is the scissors to my rock. You can't beat everyone. Just my opinion. And I'm willing to bet it will probably be the way of D2R until balancing is done by VV. Say go, no nk, picking up people's pots and gold. Everything else welcomed.
Best thing to do is build a PvP dueler. Then build another Dueler for your first characters weakness. So say your main dueler is weak against melee then make your second dueler a beast against melee.
Lol.. nk is usually a response to BM bullshizz. Nk em til they drop the game, if they earn it. Ill have to disagree with you on slow missles. Its a skill just as any other. Thunderstorm/tele is no different.. if you get slow missle'd you should be flexible enough to counter it.. yet decrepify is "acceptable" nah... sounds like players who dont know how to counter skill.. decided to ban the stuff "they dont like" People like to bitch about it.. sucks. I recall back then, in OG, you could use cleg gloves in conjunction with other "slow movement" and bug their speed permanently, til the left the game... but yeah.. that is some BM.. slow missles? Dont be in range? If a pvper is gonna focus more on damage max output.. rather than versatility.. folly on them.. Lets play 2 examples.. a zon vs an orb sorc or a hammerdin.. im using slow missles. Idgaf. You choose to tele on me and lay down hammers.. youre getting that shit slowed. No mercy. Slow missles can also be a double edged sword when it comes to certain skills as well.. the example being orb.. it tends to consolidate certain spells.. charged strike or charged bolt for example.. it actually can make them more deadly, As it cuts the travel length, but shits out all that damage in a more limited space.. Whats BM.. is the expectation a zon should eat your spells.. just because you cast them... In the case of a zon vs zon.. i would automatically assume i may get slow missle'd and that when "sword and board" comes out, til slow drops off.
The overly defensive rule is pretty dumb. I like playing amazon and I literally have to be super defensive to win. If someone tells me I cant run away from a barb or smiter.. I'm going to laugh Edit: just read the rules, 85 is bane if also using any absorb. Also wth... Houses and defense play is ban. That's got to be the most stupid rule ever. Blizzard sorcs and zons for an explain main style of play is baiting and kite. Bo is ban zvz... Then a pally can use prayer.. wth are these dumb rules. Who made these haha
At the time, these were the JSP-suggested rules and were cross-referenced with Asgard PvP (Links in the description). Nowadays though, we roll by DFC rules.
Hm, Mercs are "BM" but I feel like infinity polearms make certain builds possible on characters who cant "use" them so they keep them on a desert merc. Same with faith bows. I mean yes everyone can use them but you know what I really mean. Am I wrong to want to use a merc as a battery to extend my skill pool based on items ive worked for? I havent actively played in probably 10 years and nobody seemed to mind back then.
This could use a part two. Your channel has grown a lot in a year. I think PvP really needs a chance to grow. It might be a cool idea to invite Llama or Dbrunski or some other mainly pvm streamer to collaborate on this. You could also do build videos on entry level characters. People might feel more interested in doing something if they feel like it's actually possible. A lot of players out there who didn't start jsp in time to sell d keys for 200 a pop. I'll never feel like I acquired enough while the getting was good. My 200fcr fireball sorc (budget) was a staple of my childhood. Got to spend about an hour maybe two a night fireball jousting.
a comment to your #3 when i was young we started the trend of an uber dual or an extended fight. this is when players could bring one belt full of potions (still no full rejuv) anyway it was an interesting way to see the fight happen. sometimes a person that would kill you in a regular dual would get stomped in an extended. :)
I don’t recall any pub pvp games following most of these rules. It was always the damn Wild West. Healing and Nking are the only things I recall always being universally shit on. Banned moves are a completely new concept to me. But then again it’s been 10 years since I last played
also guided arrows normally won't lock onto targets unless they're on screen... When you shoot them at someone across the map, you still have to aim. It's also perfectly fine, like I said, to throw in multishots, because.. well, it's strategic. GA WAY more dmg than multishot did anyways... Amazon vs amazon duels are supposed to be fought at great distances from each other. Otherwise it's just a stat check, and not fun at all.
i never liked d2jsp. I always thought it trivialized the point of ladder resets. and it seems like I remember back in .09 that domain name was being used to house forums for the meph bot, and it was linked officially by blizzhackers dot com which housed the forums for most other scripts/bots. oh and btw, potions were totally fine for dueling in hardcore mode, everyone used them. As a matter of fact, people who dueled often liked to stock up on LOTS of full rejuvs. Nobody had issue with people using them lol understandably. "keep it legit" was definitely a thing though...everyone had the MH that allowed you to see each other's inventory, so people would know anyways. most of these other things weren't really a thing. I've NEVER heard of that poison dmg limit. It was generally considered cheesy to have poison damage on AMAZONS, as there were a LOT of people doing it on softcore mode...but that's it. There were no rules against it, it was just cheesy. Gosupvp had their own rules about it, and I remember them telling me you couldn't have ANY poison damage, and it only really applied to amazons AFAIK.. I mean, I only dueled with Gosupvp on an amazon anyways. When 1.1 rolled around though, all limits of poison damage seemed to be nonexistant...I mean there were no more poison damage zons anymore, and in fact it seemed like there were strategies around open wounds when I came back to softcore mode for a little while. Btw, the slow item that's considered BM is Cleglaw's lol... and it's only considered BM on amazons understandably. WF/Knockback is also considered BM in Gosupvp, generally if you wanted to duel with an amazon and not be considered BM, you'd have to roll one of those 3 open socket cruel Matriarch bows of quickness with chipped gems. I mean, I guess Faith is fine these days, but in 1.09 the only good pvp bow that was "GM" as you call it, was a cruel matriarch of quickness with 3 open sockets(can't make em anymore for some reason). I never really got into dueling in 1.1. I got that out of my system in 1.09. I can't imagine what it's like these days...back in teh day good rare amulets with teleport charges were considered godly and people VERY RARELY had them. Enigma just makes me shudder. Probably a mad house.
I never understood why they removed cruels, I remember some pretty filthy cruel 6 soc CB with 3x 30/15s & 3x ohms. I would make a barb work to pvp with a decent cruel again..
@@Jjvblack88 they didn't remove cruels.. the affix still exists.. they removed the cube recipe that rolled magic weapons with 3 open sockets. I don't remember any 6os cruels.. i don't remember those being a thing. there were ethereal cruels though that you could reroll socket quest on until you got 2 open sockets... i had an ethereal cruel scissors suwayyah of evisceration with 2 open sockets on hardcore mode. Probably one of the best items I ever had. Thing about the ethereal versions is that you could only get them as drops from monsters.. and you'd have to check each individual one... would help if you had the MH that showed you if it was ethereal... but still.. crazy. why they are so rare.
@@aBanabis you are correct, I was confusing ith's. Same era and equally-ish as strong back in the day. Iths, cruels, white rings, hex charms seems like more was possible back then with pvp..
@@Jjvblack88 I remember white rings were only a thing on USWest. There was a short time where USEast was down for a few days for some reason, so I went over to West and got rich super fast because of Oculus rings being so ridiculously cheap. So overpowered, yet they were basically throw away items. lol
woah. well all fine beside absorb and overly defensive rules, I remember 08/09 duels played a lot around this and maxing res. slow missile... well guess was forbidden since ever, while maiden was absolutely legit and most common way to kill as necro enemy barbarians. i also really don't appreciate banning hole freeze auras, only because some classes sucks vs it. thats a bad world out there, thats why hybrid builds were favoured. also the poison damage capped... i feel dueling changed much ;p my auradin had cleansing on some higher lvl for that
also when people dueled amazon vs amazon even in high tier gosupvp, they dueled a great distance from each other... they normally wouldn't see each other the entire time, you'd have to aim guided missiles at their X on the map... multishot was fine too... idk why u think it's BM lol.... you didn't just say go and start shooting arrows directly at each other like it was a stat check. i mean it's no fun that way, especially when there are clear differences in power.
Slows are grey zone, depending who you ask. I think cleg glovs and doom is fine to use and part of the game, slow missile and bone prison too. Ill go as far is not being offended by someone precasting fade to fight me. Overall, if you are unhappy with it, you can disengage, kiss Akara, nobody can force you to engage in battle that you feel is unfair. Everyone have his own personal flavour set of rules, so don't go if you don't have an agreement, it is as simple as that. Also have a super cheat option if the other dude is very insisting. Anybody lobbying for class skills ban is projecting his own flavour of "fair".
On MLD as i know decreph isn’t allowed (let’s say to use lawbringer on a kicksin vs melee) or at least talk about before duel so u keep it gm. Sometimes we allowed holyfreeze in svs duels
@Coooley why are mana potions allowed? If you're too low on mana, shouldn't you have specced your char differently? I think there shouldn't be any beverage allowed.
What you will never find in a pub pvp match for 500 alex. On the real if in public you won't find any good players GMing. lol every game will be of scrubs bming or og's pub stomping entire games.
Decrepify has such a small radius skill to cast even with skill boosted items that it's very hard to just land the curse on desynched paladins and whatnot. Almost never see Decrepify on Necro players because standing still if you're not FHR locking with spear is instant death.
Real PvPers don't duel. They hop from game to game looking for people to kill, and they *do* claim anything the opponent drops. It's also perfectly acceptable to drop some stuff near your opponent's body so they accidentally pick it up, which will cause them to drop their *actual* crap when they regain their corpse and thereby enable you to steal it.
or.. amazon whit knoc back and slow 80% :D 0 chane to kill it :D bear barbarian whit doom and beast :D light storm sorc.. :D auradin.. :D if u dont want be slowed or curse make plage weapon..
