Top Five Modern RPG Masterclass 

Hi Jonah! I have seen your documentary, and it's wonderful. I cannot wait for your Fallout 3 and 4 videos! Did I meet you at the Fallout 3 or 4 ship parties?

*takes a moment to fangirl* Thank you for watching that video! I poured a lot of work into that one. And the Fallout 3 and 4 video will focus mostly on Creature Design, but I hope you enjoy how much I tried to take the lore and incorporate it smoothly into the designs. And I think we did meet, once, but it would have been during the F3 ship party (I didn't stick around to the end of F4, I left halfway through), and I would have been just a little 25 year old, wet-behind-the-ears fella. So I don't think I fully understood who you were, and I was a little peon who probably didn't have much to say. But I'm 41 now, and I can say plenty, all by myself!! Would love to chat more, anytime :) @@CainOnGames

​​@@JonahLobeDraws why did you leave? It's always cool to learn more behind the scenes stuff about my favourite games - be it good or bad lol

@@HerohammerStudios Thanks Hero - I see you're already watching stuff on my channel, but in short I wanted to do something different, and try writing a book and doing illustrations and that sort of thing. Also my GF had moved to NYC and I wanted to be with her (we're now married with kids, so it was the right move haha)

Yo thanks for helping make one of greatest games of all time. I played Skyrim when I was 11 and now at 25 I still go back to play from time to time so thank you.

What? The Witcher 3? Disco Elysium? Dragon Age Origins?

@@turell0 yup. Disco Elysium should be top 1. This game is definition of a true role playing

@@turell0 witcher 3 is extremely overrated. It's executed well but creatively bereft and doesn't offer anything unique to rpg game development. Tim Cain literally said "these are the top 5 games rpg devs CAN LEARN FROM" not "these are the top 5 rpgs of all time". Origns is great but a lot of what origins brought to RPGs was pionereed by bg2 since it was largely the same dev team on both and Elysium is a wonderful game but as far as game development goes it's essentially a simplified adventure game with some rpg elements. It's written very well and has a lot to offer writers, but not developers.

@@libenhagos9335witcher series is a series of open/semi open world slashers. Those games are not RPGs. They have some rpg elements but that doesn't make them rpg. Same with cyberpunk 2077 being immersive simulation

@@thatdixionThis... They are basically what Fallout 4 tried to do but with actual good writing.

i really wanted to like that game because of the setting but i just couldn't get past the combat. i need to try it again one day

KCD is the masterclass in immersion, but it's in tension with what Tim wants to teach with the WoW, "easier is more fun" and "fun trumps realism" example, class and pillar. KCD and WoW offer experiences that can't coexist.

kcd is a brilliant game, but imo is weak in writing and main storyline/overarching plot (which arguably is either fake or nonexistent or both). every singular quest along the way is great, well paced and presented, but where's war torn country, cuman pillaging parties and politics or the region and the state? dutch's spiel in the tavern has more weight than the whole game past that point. ok, if you want to treat margrave guy kind of like sovereign and the reapers in me, than make his minions competent and menacing like saren, you know.

@@EasyGameEh I disagree with you about KDC's writing, I thought it was brilliant. It also happened to be written by the same man who did the story for the Original Mafia game back in the day. I agree that Saren from Mass Effect was more compelling and menacing.

Tediousness the game

You should be proud dude - I never play single player games and j have close to 200 hours in BG3 so far. Every little element of ti is so well thought out.

The sound in games is SO important! Not sure if you did this specific one, but when you cast 'Long Strider' I love the sound every time. Nice work.

I like fallout as turn based and new vegas showed it can still be a good rpg as an FPS. I would like a future TB fallout since that's what the original got me used to. With this in mind, maybe you can understand why some fans of the bg series were dissappointed. However back then playing games as a hobby wasn't as widespread as now, so I am pretty sure 90% of the current audience had it's first dip with BG3 and doesn't care about what came before, although it was nice to see a few new players try the series in anticipation of the new game

​@@konserwowy1092 I will say I've made it to act 3 in the game and so far my character has not had sex once.

As someone who likes both RTWP (due to playing a lot of RTS games) but also enjoying turn based (due to turn based strategy games), I can say I would've loved the game no matter which choice you guys had made during development, but then again I suppose I am a kind of niche customer lol. One thing I liked about PoE 2 was that you could switch between the two modes but I imagine that would've been quite the task for you guys to tackle so far into development.

I wish it was steakdeck playable

​@@Lone_Wanderer138 Steakdeck sounds very tasty. Only needs buttons and a screen!

Skyrim’s score and art direction are perfect

I felt much more like an "Epic Hero" in Morrowind, what kind of Epic Hero gets scolded like a child by some nameless guard for using legendary magic only the greatest and most fabled of men possess?

And yet doesnt somehow Most quests dont make sense if you dont start by them Enemy scalling all over the place The bandit union You have like 3 choices in the game none in the most important quests I cant deny the atmosphere and sound are top notch But i would easily replace Skyrim with Disco Elysium

Skyrim is mid

@@Pat315 it is but I’m still right I was 11 when I first played it and the music and snowy forest vibe was very beautiful to me. A perfect TES game would have as good art / music direction as skyrim did but with all the RPG shit from Morrowind. Unless you don’t like that one either

Funny story. I tried NV, and had a quest where they wanted me to get used to a BB gun. Took me outside to the range and told me to pick the cans off the fence. So I, someone who isn't good at shooters, pulls up the gun, looks downrange, looks through the scope, and can't see a can anywhere. "Maybe that's a can?" Nope. A few minutes later, I give up, talk to the NPC, and walk away. And then I notice a fence with cans on them. It was behind me. In my defense, where I was shooting from would have been shooting INTO town. The spot they led me to had a fence that seemed like I could prop the gun on it, for better stability, which is how I imagine gun ranges to be set up.

New Vegas was amazing!

For me it's the most immersive game of all time

@@mike_c_47 yeah, especially how immersive the alchemy is and how manual it is, and learning how to read, and tons of other things

I agree. I only played it this winter, but it is a contender for the best rpg title.

KCD takes a lot of risks in design, or at least tries a lot of things that are either new or not commonly done. And some of it pays off! And some of it falls flat. But the most amazing part is how true-to-life the "levels" are. "Levels" in quotes because in many cases, the castles etc are built to model real places!

Agreed. With everything here. Call me crazy, but I'd be more excited for a sequel to KCD, or just another game, not necessarily a direct sequel story wise, to clarify. Moreso than I'm excited for Dragon's Dogma 2. Now, to clarify, I by no means am shitting on Dragon's Dogma or saying it isn't great. I'm merely saying, of all the RPGs out there, and many people seem to hold Dragon's Dogma as one of their all-time favorites and a lot of hype around the sequel.. And I get it. But I feel even MORE passionately about the idea of another Kingdom Come game. Ahh, if only..

A pause between "me" and "tim" lol

Hi Tim.

Hi Tim, it’s us … everyone

Hello, Tim! :)

I say it every time he starts the video 🥰 It's very comforting for some reason

I played gothic 1 and 2 right after Morrowind. Morrowind was the first huge open world game I played and was very impressed by it. But after playing gothic I concluded it's a much better open world game, where everything's hand placed and there's no level scaling. Even fallout 1 and 2 do it better than Bethesda because of this. Still I have to give props to Bethesda for creating games that really reel you in. My problem is that you scratch the surface and depth of the game too soon and it gets boring. The Nocturnal Rambler has a channel and blog dedicated to pyranha bytes games and reviewing old classics, idk if he's from the states though.

3D NPC's that did their routines some years before Oblivion came out and much better in how they felt like living people. And I say 3D since Ultima had beaten Gothic with living NPCs though far as I know, Ultima 7 was a sprite game, don't know about the sequels having NPC with their own routines at various in-game times. Not to mention the conversations being vague enough that they don't sound derpy like that of Oblivion's. Also this is more of an opinion but I legit like how orcs in Gothic 1 & 2 weren't human looking or as human looking compared to what contemporary games like Warcraft or Elder Scrolls had. Just a sort of look that really made them look a bit more original like in that one loading screen art used in Night of the Raven of the Nameless Hero going toe to toe with an orc warrior that looked like a pissed off mutant gorilla.

I think everybody can agree that Gothic I was the best game of the triology and it should be played by anyone who wants to know more about how to bring atmosphere into a game.

I think a lot of that team were the ones who did the complete conversion mod of Skyrim called Enderal. Very moody and free on steam with Skyrim or Skyrim SE. Check it out.

You can't talk about RPGs to Eastern Europeans without daddy Gothic.

Dont really care about the camera as i pretty much just listen so it could be no picture for all i care. Having said that if i were to answer if this setup is better then no. To far away.

Sir Brante is great!

Thanks for the recommendation, the game looks really interesting.

RetroMUD is text based game. It has many viable character builds. A complex array of options in combat. Most players these days attempt to play it solo. Its fundamentally structured for groups, and some of the bosses are epic encounters.

+1 for Life of Sir Brante

It doesn't make any sense for him to do reviews because he works in the industry. It's likely he knows people who worked on a lot of the games he would be reviewing, and even if most of his review is positive, pointing out negatives runs the risk of hurting friendships and business prospects. The only upside would be that it satisfies the curiosity of internet strangers, which isn't much of a positive for him.

@@joebob2699 the mere fact he knows people and likely has a lot of insight into how those games went makes his perspective inherently skewed, yeah. That's good for actually teaching or telling stories, not so much reviews.

@@joebob2699 Yeah, there is absolutely poisoning the wells aspect for anyone still working in the industry, even for semi-retired consultants. Honestly I think Tim should stay away from current games as measure of personal employment safety. I can't emphasis that more. But the big thing is that Tim Cain is game developer and has insight to the development process. Even if isn't in any way or form involved in development of any particular game, he has different kind of approach to that game than the best possible game reviewer. Reviews that are not actually reviews as @DanielFerreira-ez8qd said.

Not everyone likes it. I can’t get into I tried 100 times

@@neonbible08 whys so?

​@@neonbible08was that the first Witcher that you played?

Because its a cinema, not an rpg. Witcher 1 fits a bit better in that regard

So for me, the Witcher 3 is in my top 5 *games* of all time, but definitely NOT my top 5 *role-playing* games of all time. Granted, this is extremely subjective. But while the Witcher 3 is a genuinely breathtaking, emotionally beautiful open world adventure game, I don’t necessarily consider it to be a full-on RPG. It does a fantastic job of integrating certain RPG *elements* into its gameplay systems - in a way that a lot of open world action games fail to do, or do in a tedious way (I’m thinking of the new Assassin’s Creed games in particular). Like, the choices Witcher 3 presents you with are meaningful and go far beyond the illusory choices of many open world adventure games. That being said, there’s just certain things that hold it back from being a good example of a full-on RPG to me. For example, you’re always Geralt. You have a lot of choices, especially with the politics of the world or his personal life. But at the end of the day, Geralt is Geralt. We know him from the books. We love him. Whether you make good or bad choices, his demeanor, personality, and outlook on life are always Geralt’s. As far as combat goes, it’s really just: do you want to use swords, swords + spells or swords + potions. You also can’t spec Geralt into a stealth character, a low intelligence idiot, a low charisma dork, a wizened old man, or a stupid young man. And again, all of that is fine! Not every game needs to be a role-playing game. Nor should they all be. I just wanted to offer why I wouldn’t include the Witcher 3 in my top 5 RPGs, and offer some insight into why others might not include it, either. To me, it’s a very, very good open world adventure game that uses elements of RPGs to enhance itself, rather than making itself a full-on RPG.

I'd love to watch Tim's live commentary playthrough of Disco Elysium honestly

Oh yeah, I also thought it was strange it wasn't in the list.

> Disco Elysium I loved the dialog, but as a piece of software engineering it's terrible. Horrible performance for what's being rendered.

I am not sure of how much of an interest it would be to Tim. I though Josh Sawyer highlighted the brilliance of DE’s reputation system, but mechanically it is a basic game, with some glaring design issues. Main boon of disco Elysium is its writing, and I don’t think that’s really Tim’s area of expertise. Mechanically skills aren’t interesting - it’s “just” that they also act as this game’s “companions”, interrupting and adding to your conversations.

@@rabbitcreative what? lol

A lot of that visual style was carried over to Arkane, specifically the Dishonored games.

I think Gothic is extremely good at making the world feel like it has a grander scope than what is presented. The way Gothic world feels lived-in with story bits like the king having to send supplies for the prisoners to get his ore. Also, the atmosphere itself is masterclass. There isn't a single game that ever gave the same feeling I had when I entered the Mine Valley in G2 right after playing through G1. Despite feeling familiar, it was so hostile that it cycled back into feeling alien again. It's borderline post-apocalyptic, and I think G2 Mine Valley is proof that it could work and simply no one had done it before.

@@ChadVulpes I don't disagree with anything said here or anything like that, but to pivot slightly, a specific feature of Gothic/Piranha Bytes games I'm ESPECIALLY fond of, and god do I wish this would become the standard in all games, is if you kill a pack of wolves or whatever, and there's a quest nearby asking you to clear said pack, if you've already done it but were unaware of the quest, when meeting the questgiver you're given the option to complete said quest immediately. It's also a nice bit of flavoring that the way it handles it is like "Oh, those? I didn't even know. I already took care of your problem." It makes grinding and fetch quests so much less fucking tedious, and doesn't like punish players for not knowing the very specific order in which to play the game. Baldur's Gate did this a bit too. I remember finding that ring from a mob outside of the castle, then meeting the owner of said lost ring, and instead of having to go either kill a mob that JUST spawned after activating some flag, or kill a respawn that suddenly magically has an item that it doesn't drop unless you have said quest already.. I just had the option to turn it over right then and there. Why, WHY is this not the absolute norm and standard? It's so simplistic but so effective imo.

@@shawnsmith3959 I understand completely. A game of which nature is to have no procedural generation, autocompleting quests you haven't even taken yet makes a lot of sense. I still have yet to play the Baldur's Gate series, but it's good to know it takes up some of this.

@@ChadVulpes :D Good to see there's still friendly people on the internet you can have an enjoyable, civil and intellectually simulating conversation with. I hope your day is going well, cool random internet stranger dude! May the RNG gods smile upon you. btw, kinda strange comparison I personally don't see/hear a lot, but on the off chance you've played Fallout 1/2, or Pathfinder games, you may find Baldur's Gate to also be enjoyable. Not clones by any means, but generally speaking in terms of "feel" and whatnot, I don't see the names mentioned compared or contrasted almost at all, I think it is kinda easy to overlook as it isn't immediately obvious. To clarify, I'm talking about Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 and RTWP, which I really struggled to get into myself but is one of the things I'm most glad I stuck out and got over that initial hurdle and was able to enjoy to the fullest later. The 3rd and most recent BG release is also a fantastic, amazing game in its own right, but it's changed the formula a bit. However, even in BG3, I've come across those "Oh, I wonder what this item is/does" and then meeting the questgiver 10, 15, 20 mins or even hours later and being able to immediately turn it in for a reward. It's just a nice feeling.

I put 1+2 on my list as one item here is my list: typing out my list before you do: - PS:T - branching reactive philosophical+literary thematic immersion (setting, characters, etc.) - UnderRail - stat+skill+feat effective integration (supporting not dictacting the gameplay - even though it is essential to it) - Age of Decadence - full-spectrum class design (as UnderRail did for non-class based support, AoD does for class-based support) - Gothic 1+2 - because no matter how you play, your path/journey through growing your character is intrinsically tied to the game world and story (achieving the feeling of BEING your character more than most in a world richer than most) - Pathfinder: WotR - effectiveness of implementation of an existing ruleset combined with allowing the player to play in a vast number of viable ways all which are seemlessly tied to the world, story, and your character's place within it

I feel gaslit by the lack of DE in his list lol

A part of me feels that this kind of pigeonholes your villains a bit into a specific mold, but it _does_ ring true with the projects he's worked on. Most of the factions in Alpha Protocol have their characters as both allies and antagonists and it works wonderfully, it makes the entire world feel full of thorns and forces you to maneuver and make damaging, irreversible decisions that change who stands with you and vice versa. It also makes you see your allies in a different light-- in Alpha Protocol, there are plenty of allies that will stand with you 90% of the time but still have scenarios where they'd gun you down too. I personally want to say that a good villain can absolutely come from a character that could never in any capacity be considered an ally, but this approach solves the problem of making sure your villain has a good motive and that the player can more or less glimpse into their mind through observations. A villain that only exists as a simple roadblock can easily feel undercooked and inconsistent.

That’s a really great list!

Witcher 3, for sure...I've been playing through it , for the first time , with First person toggle, shaders, and various mods...hell of an experience...it's everything I loved about Oblivion and then some

Too bad it ruined the storytelling established in the first game 🤷

Agree. I enjoyed it even more than BG3, despite the bugs.

I am really enjoying rogue trader. I might even like it more than bg3. But I think it’s just dishonest to suggest it is a better crafted game.

Underrail was great. Hard though! I had to become the King of Grenade Spam

He mentioned on some forum that he really enjoyed underrail.

One of the best "totally not fallout + more combat" games I've ever played. Underrail is excellent, especially the expansion.

Indeed, inquiring minds want to know!

Stock F:NV is unplayable, get the community patch and the game will only crash occasionally

@@Emu0181 I play it without mods and never had it crash

Every issue the third ME game had in concluding the trilogy was a direct result of ME2's mishandling of its story. If all you're looking for is character motifs, it's very well-written, but if you care about the larger arc of the trilogy and keeping that compelling and meaningful, it's actually the greatest failure of the franchise.

@@Crazy_Diamond_75 I disagree. ME1 had the best plot. ME2 had the best character development. And ME3 was just a mess. ME3's failure to wrap up the threads from 1&2 (in a satisfying way) is not the fault of ME2. I actually enjoyed ME3 in a check-your-brain-at-door kind of way, but acknowledge the writing wasn't very good. Personally, I use a couple of mods that alter the ending. They remove the star child and all that deus ex machina nonsense. After you deal with ILM You just push the button to open up the citadel, The crucible comes in, attaches and boom all the reapers go bye-bye. And then it cuts to the party scene of the Citadel DLC for a nice little epilogue. That's not a perfect ending, but it's so much better than what we were given, and saves the series for me.

@@wavion2 ME 2 didn't bother continuing any of the threads from the first game. It branched into a tangent plot with new stakes and new characters. So ME3 was left to clean up the mess 2 created, and it became a disjointed, broken mess because of it. In isolation, 2 appears great, but if you're looking at the trilogy _as a whole_ it's the weak link that set up many of 3's more obvious failures.

@@Crazy_Diamond_75 What threads from ME1? Other than "The Reapers are coming!"? Which they continued.

@@wavion2 The first game sets up the Protheans, and how understanding what happened to them helps us to understand what happens in the Reaper cycle (Ilos is a great example). Shepard is a Spectre, which gives him autonomy, and has the knowledge of the Prothean beacon, which helps him understand Prothean communication. He has a Prothean expert on his team (Liara), and a ship with stealth technology that will let him go basically anywhere with impunity. Finally, there remains large unexplored swaths of the galaxy (closed relays from the Rachni wars) where all sorts of clues, mysteries, revelations, and answers could have been discovered. So, at the end of the first game we know that a) the Reapers are coming, but b) we just bought some time to figure out what to do about it since they're still stuck in dark space, and c) Shepard is the only one with the autonomy and resources to look for a solution. There is so much they could have done with that setup and premise. But instead they do what is essentially a soft reboot and ignore all that Reaper business in favor of a side-plot about an obscure extremist faction from the first game retconned to be some uber-powerful mercenary group. So, in the 3rd game, it basically starts with "Welp, Reapers are here. Too bad we didn't do literally anything about it to prepare." So now we have to do all the clue-hunting and teambuilding we were _supposed_ to do in the last game in an incredibly rushed and disconnected fashion, building up to a final conflict that doesn't mean anything, because we didn't do enough world-building around the Reapers, their origins, or the nature of the cycle to set it up properly. Imagine if we had spent the 2nd game actually LEARNING about the Reapers, and how much more impactful that could have made literally any other finale than the Deus Ex Machina we got. Does that make sense? I haven't talked about this much in the last few years, so I had to regather and recollect my thoughts a little bit.

"individual skills progress as you use them" -- This form of skill progression is perfect for open world games in which the skill might be used practically anywhere. Alas, there are some who believe the fact that a few players will craft hundreds of iron daggers in order to progress their smithing skill, for example, means all players will do that; consider it an exploit; and patch it out or change it in future games. (Bummer.) I know of another game that was using such a system, but a few players were crafting dozens of stone axes to progress, artificially, the more organically progressed skillset instead. Ergo, its working "learn by doing" system was replaced with a "learn by looting" system, seemingly with no thought whatsoever as to the fact that the game's wilderness areas do not feature the abundant containers included in its town and city POIs -- containers from which to retrieve the necessary loot items, thereby reducing the appeal of its wilderness areas to near zero. Poor developers. What are they to do in the face of such devilish impertinence? {swoon} No, seriously. What are they going to do? :)

@lrinfi I don't think there is inherently a problem with having systems players can exploit in a single player or co op focused game, so long as you balance it to be engaging for players not exploiting it.

I really liked the feeling of exploration in DD, the map being revealed as you explore in order to hide its true scale is an excellent quality that Elden Ring picked up on makes me wish ER's fast travel was more restricted like in DD which connected some areas via dungeons with multiple entrances sort of similar to how the first Dark Souls gradually made its world easier to travel via shortcuts you would find, it feels a lot more rewarding than simply flipping a switch in a location to activate a fast travel point

Wow that’s an old one nowadays. I had a buddy who loved DD, but I never got the chance to play it

DD rocks! The customisation was also easily best in class when it came out

I agree, Dragon's Dogma is an action RPG masterpiece. Tim should really check it out!

I played it and Elden Ring is better in every way.

Cyberpunk is a looter shooter. Even CD project gave up calling it rpg half way through they marketing campaign and changed it to action open world game

Cyberpunk is a simple action game for simple people.

@@thatdixion Actually didn't know they reclassified it, and yeah can absolutely see that. Tbh it's not very RPG like at all but the story hits for me and the world design is amazing. Not a huge fan of the phantom liberty changes but I had fun with it

@@notchedbandit we're not talking about bg3 here or elden ring.

I'm playing it right now and while it's a fun action game, I find the RPG part pretty limited as most dialog elements is out of our control. Too often our only true choice is to not say something, and even then sometimes the rest of the conversation acts like the line you didn't click was said. I feel V is CDPR's character much more than it is mine.

Nah thats a bit too obscure for tim.

We are old Windows XP is still the best windows.

My personal feeling as a much more casual Souls player is that the DS series still has plenty of long treks. Going through some places in Anor Londo, Blighttown, or Darkroot Forest, intricate isn't the word that comes to mind as the places are sprawling and sometimes even sloppy. But the sense of scale does help the room feel like a long journey. To me the open world elements of ER just accentuate this, both the problems and benefits. Exploring the world sort of invoked that feeling of passing through less combative or dangerous areas in DS 1 or 2, and I felt like a lot of care was put into making sure it didn't feel like a Far Cry style timewaster with pretty foliage. I really enjoyed following routes and paths along the world, stumbling into ambient enemies in the open world spaces, and finding less important areas like camps because they never hurt my sense of scale that the original games had-- it just felt like instead of being restricted to specific level design of winding paths, you had more moments (not always!) to see the full landscape at your own pace. The only thing I didn't care for was that I felt like the open world did require me to grind for resources with a longer traversal and more randomness to what areas I was searching, which brought back some of those unpleasant feelings of having large amounts of terrain just for the sake of it in a ton of modern Ubisoft titles.

You're not the only one. Neverknowsbest's review was among the best I've seen. The more signifant points I personally disagreed with had more to do his own choices than the game itself, e.g. his choosing to do exactly as he was told by the first NPC he ran across rather than exploring the starting area and leveling up before heading to Stormveil Castle. Yeah. That one's entirely on him. :) The game is more accessible than others in the genre due to the fact that you can avoid getting stuck on a single boss forever and/or use the spirit ashes, if desired, etc.

They didn't. Dark Souls is a small-scale game with limited movement, it is nowhere near as open as Elden Ring.

If you like RPGs with a lot of choice and consequences I highly suggest you Tyranny (made by obsidian btw) while not as cinematic as Cyberpunk and BG3 (most of the characters are not voice acted) the game is very reactive to your choices, and like New Vegas it has 4 different paths you can take in the main story, not only that before the game even starts you can create your own backstory, by choosing decisions your character took before the game even starts, and this can change areas of the world or characters/factions opinions of you. Overall it is a very underrated crpg that is a must play for everyone who likes a good story!

every single bethesda game gets more dumbed down and lamer than the last one, for decades now :(

And yet people have put and continue to put hundreds of hours into the game and don't feel the same way. It's different from Skyrim but different doesn't mean not fun.

It's not fun.@@r.rodriguez4991

A lot of ppl find skyrim, fallout 3/nv boring as well. I Loved Starfield i don't think any of the 4 or 5 faction questlines(5 to 10hrs each) were anywhere near boring

​@@pabluh18 Pretty sure the questlines are the least boring part of Starfield and not what OP was talking about anyway.