Top Seven Fateful New Testament Texts: Women Keep Silent Be Subservient (3) 

Based on some of the comments here, and the replies I got to my comment, I can see that misogyny is alive and well in Christian circles. Women speak nonsense, women should shut up, and so forth. Now, I'd like someone to tell me this: why should I or any other woman waste our time--and men's--in a church where we have to sit back and watch in silence while the men do their thing? It's quite clear our voices aren't wanted. It's quite clear our voices are resented. Let the men run the church, then! Paul was perfectly capable of using non-gendered language to address situations when he wanted to. If, as some apologists argue, he was simply saying that there should be order in church and people should not disrupt the service by talking, he could have done so. Instead he chose to single out women and ever since, for 2,000 years, men have been cheering him on: "Way to go, Paul! Put those ladies in their place! You show them!" Can you possibly tell me that Paul did not know what he was doing when he wrote those things? Can you tell me that even back then when Paul's letter was read to the Corinthians there weren't men in the congregation that were going "Yeah! Now that's telling them!" Do you think Paul wasn't aware of this? No--he knew. He knew what the reaction and impact would be. He simply didn't care. Sure, he mentions a lot of women who helped him out. And this is how he repaid them. The New Testament is silent about how these women reacted when they heard Paul's words that they should be quiet and cover themselves and not take leadership positions in the church. Were they shocked and hurt? Did they feel betrayed? Did they continue on as members, feeling, well the time is short so it doesn't matter anyway? Or did some of them walk away, saying "if that's the case, there is no place here for me."? Now, I was taught as a Christian that the most important thing one could do was to bring others to Christ. That without Christ, there is no eternal salvation, only eternal damnation, and because of Adam and Eve's sin, all humankind, without exception, is going to hell; it's our default state. So it behooves the Christian to do everything they can to spread the Good News of Jesus' salvation. And to not put stumbling blocks or barriers in anyone's path. Guys, you may think you are being clever when you use Scripture to put women down and make snide remarks about them talking too much or talking nonsense or being emotional; you may really think oh, yeah, that's showing them, you and your buddies can get together and congratulate and high-five each other about how you put that bitch in her place--but, if you call yourself a Christian and you really believe that Jesus is who he says he is, and that he is going to be judging the world, I would really pay close attention if I were you to those verses that talk about causing others to stumble or turn away from the faith. Because you will be judged on those matters. If a woman ends up rejecting Christ because of you, it's not going to be "tee-hee, stupid bitch got what she deserved"--it will be you as well that will be getting what you deserve. If Christianity is true, this isn't a laughing matter. But if it isn't, well, then go right on doing what you are doing. There's no consequence if the ladies leave.

Always great to get a new video Dr. Tabor

Thank you for this series Dr. Tabor! ❤

Sorry your most recent videos got taken down! Love your content.

In Genesis, as some scholars have pointed out, there are two narratives that explain the story of creation. When the two accounts are read and compared, it seems that the second writer (or writers) wanted to give the story more "pizzaz." It also seems to heavily favor men. Since men were the mass majority of writers at the time, it only behooved them to put the blame on Mame, boys (it was all Eve's fault). Would the savvy Paul have been aware of this if he were citing the Genesis story as his basis for 1 Corinthian 11:2-16? God is no respecter of persons - which seems would be an attribute of a loving and just God (Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11).

I wonder what Paul would think if he came back and learned that his letters are being used as Scripture.

Great segment-- thank you!!!

Very important and poignant lecture, thanks Dr Tabor.

A woman is not commanded by Sha'ul to be subservient to all men but only to her man; her father if she is still unmarried or her husband. They are her covering depending on whether whose authority she is under. It's right there in the books of the bible. For example, Yakob (James) states in his letter, that the only religion (devotion) that Yahuah accepts as pure and blameless is to "look after ORPHANS and WIDOWS in their distress. Now what does a widow and an orphan have in common? One clue is in Deuteronomy where Yahuah makes a compromise with the stiff-necked Israelites regarding women who were taken captive in war: "Bring her into your home and have her SHAVE HER HEAD, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and MOURNED HER FATHER AND MOTHER FOR A FULL MONTH... An unmarried woman whether fully grown or still a child must have a covering or she has no standing before the most high. Hence, when a woman is taken captive by a male israelite (this is a compromise and not the father's will) in war, she must be given time to mourn the loss of her covering (her father) as symbolized by the shaving of her hair. She has become an orphan and thus without a covering. This is what an orphan and a widow have in common; they have both lost their spiritual covering. This is what Sha'ul was speaking of when he decreed that no woman must pray or prophesy with her head uncovered. She must have a spiritual covering as a way of showing respect to the order of things that Yahuah established. And this is not to demean women or show that they are of less worth to Yahuah because men having been given authority are in turn held accountable for a lot of things. Men are expected to bear the sins of their women (sounds familiar?): “If a woman living with her husband makes a vow or obligates herself by a pledge under oath and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her and does not forbid her, then all her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and Yahuah will release her. Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself. But if her husband says nothing to her about it from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or the pledges binding on her. He confirms them by saying nothing to her when he hears about them. If, however, he nullifies them some time after he hears about them, THEN HE MUST BEAR HER GUILT.” See? A crooked man may think he can do whatever he wants to his woman because she is under his authority, but he is mistaken, because a man MUST provide for, guide, protect, and rebuke his woman otherwise he is sinning against the father because sin is performing a role contrary to how Yahuah performed said role. If he fails in doing these things in fulfillment of his role then he will be accountable to the most high on the day he stands before him. And because of this great accountability on the part of the man, his woman is instructed to submit to him or allow him to fulfill his role without causing him undue grief because his burden as a cover for his woman is heavy enough as it is. Kepha said that "Sha'ul's teachings is sometimes hard to understand (not for spiritual babes) WHICH THE IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE TWIST TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION, AS THEY DO THE OTHER WRITTEN TEACHINGS.

Deborah was a woman and a Judge in Israel. Did she not speak in the congregation? where is the rule that a woman cannot speak in the congregation in the Tanakh? They had separation of males and females but nothing about not speaking. In fact in the so called new testament a woman is supposed to cover her head when prophesying in the congregation (according to the context) - doesn't that mean speaking? 1Corinthians 11:5. In any case this is clearly an INTERPOLATION by the pagan roman catholic organization that controlled the scriptures for many centuries, because Paul tells us there is no male or female in The LORD GOD in line with the fulfilled Messianic Promises. It is also not witnessed by 2 or 3 witnesses to be The WORD of The LORD GOD - 2Corinthians 13:1.

Interesting how in this talk and the one before , Prof. Tabor never mentions the word misogyny

Fascinating. tyvm

Paul.was a real piece of work. On another topic: Paul a student of Gamaliel.? If so he went against the advice of his mentor.

I don't understand when Paul was not among the apostles and he didn't see Jesus during his lifetime, then how could he become such an authority in the early Christianity?

Didn’t Samson’s strength come from his unshorn hair?

How does one correspond with you?

Great video, thank you. I lost my faith and study the Bible 10 hours a day over the past year, trying to understand Bible verses like the ones you pointed out. Although I lost my faith, there are many things I completely agree with devout Christians. Fore example, I am an old white American man. and 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 1 Corinthians 14:27 make too much sense. In fact, my devout Christian family doesn't agree with these bible verses. So I'm not a Christian any longer and my family is? How does that happen? Why do they call themselves Christians and me an atheist?

9:59 - 15:03 But, wouldn't Paul know about the Nazarites? Such as Samson, and Samuel? That the Nazarite vows NOT to cut his hair? A natural consequence of such a vow would be one's hair would grow quite long!

No, I think 1 Cor 14 is a forgery. Women are praying and prophesying in other parts of the same book.

One of the side effects of this sex s bad was actually the acts of sodomy rampant in the clergy and among the monks. Remember in the early church bishops on up had slaves and bonded servants. Apparently things got so bad the some Popes had to try to limit the young boys the clergy could have. Of course if people had actually remained celebrate as Paul hoped that would have been the end. Was it the Shakers here in New York that died out because they practiced celibacy and could not find enough converts to keep going? Obviously Paul saw the end times coming soon that it would not be a problem. Perhaps that is why Jesus kept talking about not worrying about tomorrow, saving money, be like the birds that neither sow nor reap. Let the thief have your shirt, don't go to court, if you are pregnant during the end times it will be hard. He saw the end as very near. Selling everything and giving it to the poor makes sense if you will be in paradise but a life of destitution in your old age would not be good advise unless you think this generation will not see death.

I am not persuaded that covering the head means growing hair. We recognize that it is women (anywhere) who wear veils and cover their beauty, and keep men at a distance.. Why doubt it here? That is a modern Idea. Pity Linda Ronstadt, "Just One Look."

The end of the Age did occur in 70 AD. Is Paul talking about that or the end of the physical world.

The true and eternal God has 24 elderly women around him. When people find out that if these women don’t accept you, you will know why some people fill their diapers before they leave.

Paul sounds like someone madly afraid of women.

there is written somewhere but i am told to believe that what i am reading is a lie but James Tabor has the truth.

Good catch about how it is referring to hair covering the neck. Would you comment on the implication about 'the man is the image and glory of God but the women is the glory of the man"? I have a take on it, but it points to a re-think of what it means to be the Image of God, in favor of a relational view and not something intrinsic to humans.

I can throw out Paul from the New Testament and my life continues

There are so many jezabels I've literally never seen a woman put her husband first. I've seen dozens of men personally disregard their own sanity safety finances just to make a woman happy and it never works and she never listens I've literally never seen it happen

Thank you Dr Tabor! God bless you! I could have called these series 'Therapy for the habits taken in brainwashing organized religion'... at least that's what these series are doing for me.

Is there even a "Paul"?

But there is textual evidence to suggest Paul did not write 1 Cor. 14 Dr. Tabor. The pecking order Paul describes in 1 Cor. 11:3 was a widely accepted model in 1st century Judea, while the strict meaning in 1 Cor. 14:34 that women should keep silent was not. And there are other contradictions between the two chapters. For example, read 1 Cor. 11:4-5. The distinction between a man and a women here is regarding head covering, not whether a women is allowed to speak. In order for a women to prophesies she would have to be able to speak. I don’t agree with your interpretation on the Churches of God vs Churches of the Saints, but the most important contradiction can be seen in 1 Cor. 11:11 “Nevertheless, in the lord women is not independent of man nor man of women”;… There is a sense of equality between a man and women in this verse that matches the Gospel of Mark’s portrayal of Jesus and the way he treated women. If the teachings of Jesus never demanded women remain silent, and Paul’s preachings intend to follow Jesus, then it is not likely that Paul wrote women should be silent IMO. But this is what happens when someone is either allowed/commissioned, or takes it upon themselves to plagiarize and corrupt someone else’s work, you risk losing the real identity of both the original author and his/her work. But there is still enough original Paul left to get a good sense of his character, and who he was. The fact that he believed the end of the age was near speaks to the strong convictions he acquired during his conversion more than anything else. One thing that emerges clearly from the behaviour visible in Paul’s letters is that he firmly believed in the Jesus story.

14:16 That's a stark difference from Jesus' message, that is living the Kingdom of God right here and right now, while it doesn't come with power. God's rule start with each one chosing good in an evil world, and then it grows, as a mustard seed grows to a big bush. Paul's massage seems to be "sit down and wait God to strike the world, don't bother to bring chance"

I’m surprised that you said women serving the communion was a topic of contention in your church/community because I grew up in the Church of Christ as well, but of the instrumental variety, and I think if someone even suggested women serving they would be laughed out the door. Women were allowed to teach other women and unbaptized boys, but any role more than that would have instantly caused a schism with probably more than 3/4 of the congregation walking out. If such a thing was even a thought in someone’s mind then that must have been an extremely liberal noninstrumental group. I think where I grew up there wasn’t any difference between the different CoCs other than the presence of instruments, everything else was the same I think.

No almost. Actually. I am not saved by motherhood. I am saved by faith in Christ alone. Where did this distortion come from?

She should cover her pride..Romans 8:7-8

Is a man not part woman and a woman part man wouldn't that mean they're equal to each other then instead of one or the other more or less than?

Okay, this is what I am attempting to do...I am attempting to compile an Ebionite/Nazarene Bible...it is to include the English version of the Hebrew Tanakh, the Q scriptures, the Clementine writings, and the Gospel of Thomas...it may include some of the Quran, I have not determined what parts of it yet though (if you have any advice on that, would be great)...where would good English translations of Q, Gospel of Thomas, and Pseudo Clementine writings be online for free for me to copy into the book? Also, is there an online source for a list of Priestly additions to the Tanakh that I can use to subtract from the Tanakh?...I want as close to Jesus's teachings that I can get in it...

So Paul was into chicks with long hair.

apparently, I'm a shameful woman! lol

Muslims think it's immodest to show the hair, so just the opposite.

For anyone interested, Andrew Bartlett has written 'Men and Women in Christ' which I think reflects a proper understanding of Paul on this subject. He also presents a strong case that v 34-35 in 1 Corinthians 14 are not original to Paul's letter. He has also done a short you tube video on this. But I agree that so-called head coverings for women actually refer to the hair itself and how it is worn. Again, Bartlett's book covers this in detail.

Are you trying to tell me Jesus likely wasn’t a white man with hair to his shoulders? Sounds pretty sus dr. Tabor

All my life I viewed myself as a Christian until I read those depressing verses denigrating women. Then, I decided to quit Christianity. I haven’t picked up the Bible since. I realize that it is not only Christianity but all the Abrahamic religions that feel that women should be subservient to men. I guess my question is, how can a woman grow spiritually in a church that views them in a negative way? I cannot see any reason to be in a Christian church any more.

Paul is the false apostle spoken of in Revelation 2:2 B ecause of Paul's word salad, 99.9% of Christians will not be saved.

It's true. Woman should be silent in spiritual matters. Men have a lot screwed up already.

To be honest I am yet to meet a woman who would not be excessively, nay, insanely loquacious. What the Bible is telling us is that this is not a new problem.

LEaving it like that? Paul,that wrote a lot of the Bible? Sent by yeshua, that paul? The LORD is not the author of confusion,I'm confused.

Moses corrupted the original Commandments he destroyed so that he could suppress women into the role of brood cattle who were property of the state. Pauline Theology is basically Jesus Judaism, what Jesus was trying to complete the cultural transformation set into motion by the Torah, The idea that women don't like Paul is again, a projection of Marxist expectations, Paul has an enormous erotic appeal to women that matched to Song of Songs, Jesus is the only man in history to have shared the experience of the uterus through His psyche in Mark 5:25 - 34. I mean, this is what is going on between him and Mary Magdalene, As a gay man, Paul comes as close tho sharing those sensitivities than any man but Jesus will ever get. The uterus is the temple of Yaweh, Queen of Ba ttle. That's what Paul is carrying on to the Romans in regards to the connection of Pauline Theology to the Talking Cross. As you observe in Philippians 2;6, Paul brings Plato into the conversation with morphē , which anchors the Roman military construct. It isn't a big leap from the Talking Cross to Plato for these guys. Pauline Theology and the Gospel of Mark originated with Pilate's lost euangelion to Tiberius,. Like an arrow launched by the bow string of Pilate's duty, the first 18 books of the newt Testament flew like an arrow and stuck in the door of the Italian Cohort of the Praetorian Guard, who make sure it was conveyed immediately to the Emperor. The important message was that the Jewish god had endorrsed the Roman Republic as a superior answer to Aristotle's Politics than monarchies and, as history would reveal, Christian theocracies. The most serious misapprehension about Paul is tht he is as queer as a South Beach drag queen, and the circumcision of Timothy was a gay marriage, which was common place among Greeks, Socrates was like Peter: asexual, He was a stalwart citizen-soldier and didn't consider campaigning an appropriate arena for exploring recreational activities not purely mission focused. Paul didn't share those inhiations, Or, more usefully, his boundaries with women were far more permeable than most Jewish men, How he ended up with Luke is connected to his methods for gaining access to the local congregations when he was in a new town,