I'll point out all the height data I was using to compare those players with modern players was based on their barefoot data (acquired through news archives) vs modern barefoot data from the draft. Not listed info - which tends to not be accurate or created equally.
Bill Russell 6'11 240 lbs and Wilt Chamberlain 7'2 285 lbs and you believe LeBron is closer to 6'8 or 6'9 and Moses Malone 6'11 235 lbs but listed as 210 lbs no weight was right in this
Carlos Reid Chamberlain was 7'1" and while in the league played at weights ranging from 275-310 lbs from his rookie year to his final year. Weight isn't static and some players decided to go for different weights throughout their career.
Didn't know Lucas got to that, but maybe. Lanier, later on, may have been around 300. Some broadcasters were saying that. I remember for a while, probably as a rook, Tim Hardaway at 6 ft, was listed at 175. Doug Collins (color commentator) said he was at least 215. He didn't look wrong on that.
Great video! It should be noted that while in the ABA, Zelmo Beaty had a loose piece of cartlidge in his knee. The doctors said that he could either shut it down for the year by going through surgery to remove the cartlidge or play through the intense pain and wait for the cartlidge to detach so a doctor could remove it through an easy, albeit painful procedure. Beaty decided to play through the pain. During a game he felt something weird in his knee, so he went back to the locker room and the trainer said that the cartlidge did in fact detach. Instead of taking the rest of the night off and getting it done by a doctor he had the team's trainer take a pair or tweezers, go INTO his knee, dig around and pull the cartlidge out. He had no painkillers and apparently it took 20 minutes but the trainer finally dug out the piece of cartlidge and pulled it out. Then they stitched up the hole and slapped a band aid on it so Zelmo could finish the game. That was what was left of the cartlidge in his knee and Beatty not only finished the game but won an ABA championship that year with Utah despite having zero cartlidge left in one of his knees. Say what you want about his lack of vertical, but Zelmo Beatty was a great ballplayer and a warrior.
My favorite after Wilt. As the film said Zelmo could do it all. I just couldn't understand why Atlanta got no further than they did. One of the NBA Teams that never made it to the NBA Finals. The St. Louis Hawks won an NBA Championship, the Atlanta Hawks has never done that, never got close in Atlanta.
@@sirrjazz734 - Once the Celtic Dynasty of the 60s was formed, only Wilt's '67 Sixers could get past them. Russell was truly great, but those were team championships. During the decade the Celtics never had fewer than 5 future hall-of-famers on their roster, and 1 year had as many as 9.
Another thing people never mention, those rims had no forgiveness. They were just bolted to the backboard, there was no springs in them. These guys had great accuracy and touch to put up the scoring numbers they did, there was no "shooters role" like they have on the soft rims now. It also hurt to dunk on those rims, they would leave bruises on your wrists and forearms, no forgiveness at all.
This channel has to be one of the best on RU-vid, I love it. Keep it going man! Oh, and Michael Rapaport really needs to educate himself, it's just embarrassing listening to him speak.
The average height of a NBA player today is 6'7" and the average height of a player of the 60s was 6'6" People act like he played against 6'0" centers or something
@@Amick44 Agreed. These young know it all fans probably think Gehrig and Ruth batted against college all-star pitchers whos' fastball could be timed with an hour glass! Gimme a break. People who think these guys couldn't play in the "modern" NBA don't think, period!! I remember Henry Finkle, another 7 footer. And 7 foot Reggie Harding. What tremendous potential Reggie had. I noted the statement "No other footage of Harding exists". How sad......
I spent 2 years around Wilt's college teammate and roommate. Ron Loneski was the Power Forward and our HS Varsity Coach starting my 10th Grade Year. Dude was a HORSE! At 42, Coach Loneski was still running 2 miles per day. When Andrew Bynum entered the league in 2005 he couldn't run a mile straight!!! LOL!!! So how well would Andrew Bynum have done back then!!! Those guys all ran Cross Country during the Fall Season. EVERY HIGH SCHOOL COACH REQUIRED IT!!! LOL!!!
As Wilt told MJ , when you came into the league they changed the rules so that you could dominate, when I came into the league they changed the rules so that I couldn’t dominate.
Note that there were only 9 NBA teams in the 61-62 season in which Wilt AVERAGED 50ppg. This resulted in him playing Russell a whopping 12 times in the regular season.
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-46RutBTe-as.html for Bill's full comment about that - you're mostly correct about the quote but incomplete.
And this is what people don't get when they say such nonsense. Fewer teams _concentrates_ talent, and more teams dilute it. Wilt and Russell played against HOF centers for the majority of their careers.
@@Fantline wilts average dropped in 8/8 series he played against Russell, his efficiency dropped 7/8 times even though Wolts team had the best record in the league from 1966-1968, and much better team in 69 with the lakers but still choked
Pure Luminous nah theres alot. Mj, Lbj, wilt, Kobe, hakeem, bird, magic, duncan, Shaq, The admiral, wade, kg, dirk, kareem, Russel, westbrook, tmac, rose, kd, ray allen, pierce, ewing, carter, clyde, melo, Klay Thompson, ben wallace, ron artest, scottie Pip, chris paul, jason kidd, barkely, Blake Griffin, stockton, Karl Malone, ect..ect. There os so many players who would be elite in any era u put them in
Willis Reed was a GREAT and SMART offensive player. Imagine a fast, quick, and agile Zach Randolph at Randolph's APEX with a hint of David Robinson's face-up game.
Thank you so much for educating the kids. I'm 67 and grew up watching these guys, and it gets really tiresome to hear the ignorance and arrogance of these kids judging something they know nothing about. You took on most all of their talking points and the clips clearly show the quickness and athleticism of these great players.
Yes im not omd but i still can understand that great people would still be great in any era its like they think ali could not win a boxing match today cause "people are stronger now" or whatever shit are in their head idk
@@juicethreetwo Hakeem gave Shaq fits. Bill was a BETTER jumper than Hakeem (ranked #7 high jumper in the WORLD at one point), about the same quickness and agility, and THOUGHT more.
People need to be educated about the real greats. These old timers played for the "love of the game" and not "money." They did all that they accomplished without a training table, weight rooms, personal trainers, sports psychologist, et Al. Stars today mirror these players, just don't know it. Look at Dr. J, then look at Mike.
Great video and conclusions. To show just how tough the league was in 1965, the guards that sat on the Laker's bench (Jim King, Walt Hazzard and Gail Goodrich) became all-stars after expansion.
Gail is in the Hall, and was the #2 option for the Lakers in the late 1960s/early 1970s behind West - and AHEAD of Wilt or McMillan. I think Walt is also in the Hall, not 100% sure there though. Don't remember Jim, pretty sure he's not in the Hall.
@@VictorLionsTV Bill made a similar point to MJ at least once, about a guy that won a championship for the Bills on a last-minute shot. I forget the exact quote, but Bill pointed out that early in his time, there were only 90 openings for players in the league - and the player that made that shot doesn't even make a team and MJ doesn't win that championship.
Thank you for making this video. I'm so sick of arguing with people in comment sections about this subject. People think that Russel and Chamberlain played against plumbers and farmers. I subscribed, great job educating the unknowing .
They'd just act like they never saw it and continue with what they want to believe. It's not that people don't know, it's that they don't want to know. Honesty even with things as trivial as sports is frowned upon nowadays
And that is a pretty good place to start. West and Robertson join the league that year, Wilt the year before. Russell came in 56', Pettit 54', Baylor 58'. So right around 1960, maybe a tad before is where some true superstars arrived and set the stage for a relatively modern style of play. Of course, subsequent stars have expanded on what they did, but about that time is when the game took off.
Milo Janis Yea the history of the NBA may have been changed if MS had lived. He was on that level with Baylor, Petitt and others. Can you imagine the Royals with Stokes, Twyman, Lucas, Embry, Big O, Adrian Smith. That would have been major competition with the Celtics in the East.
Kristaps is nice. We need to see a revolution of big men, instead of just one or the other dominating it needs to be both. Tim Duncan and Tony Parker/Ginobili, Shaq and Kobe, Stockton and Malone. 80s and 90s had the best balance imo.
Your channel is going to blow up. Huuuuuuge production value, so I appreciate the compliment. You ever want reference material or aid in fact-checking on Wilt era topics feel free to contact me - my email should be posted on my channel
Could you imagine Shaq or any big man for that matter, especially one that is 7'3 in his sneakers running the 440, winning the high jump, triple jump, Kansas shot put record at the same time dominating basketball. his stamina was unreal. One year he played every minute of every game. 48 minutes a game, never fouling out or taking a rest.
As great as Russell was, Wilt scored 60 points on him, and also had a 55 rebound game against him. Wilt would measure 7'2 1/2 in today's game. As athletic and mobile and strong as he was as well as stamina and could run like a horse in the 60's. With the academy's and the different training and diet etc etc, I could only imagine how good he would be today.
This moron talking about there were only 10 teams when Wilt came to the NBA. But that would make it harder, every team would have the top ten most dominant centers in the world at the time, no breaks, every game Wilt had to be on his game. He AVERAGED 50 points a game at GS, against a good center almost every game. Put Lebron in college right now, he would obviously dominate, but no way 50 a game.
On both sides of the spectrum, we have old schoolers saying today's players can't play the game of basketball. Which is a blatant disregard towards them. Because, players always been learning from the past, they copied their favorite players moves and tried to replicate them on the hardwood. Just like coaches. The strategies & the mentalities we're witnessing in today's game has been changing because rules have been modified in order to appeal the casual fans. Furthermore, players are dedicated to the gym. They are lifting weights and run intervals like I've never seen before : players had the luxury to have a strength coach, a nutritionist, a team doctor, a shooting coaches, etc. Way before the NBA was brought on television with colors, Bill Russell refused to lift iron, because he claimed it wouldn't make him a better player. If he was born in the 1990s, he would benefit from those advantages. Different time period. On the other side, we have newer fan stating old school players can't play. They don't understand that their equipments (shoes, court) were rudimentary; facilities weren't as develop as today (gym, cafeteria, transport); rules and strategies were obviously different. As an example, players were staying longer on the court, because coaches and medical stafff weren't aware that more stress on your body can cause more injuries. Sorry for the log text. But, I am tired of this war. I was raised in the 80s before Jordan was even a "thing", and since that time, it's the same war : Old vs New. BTW, sorry for my poor sentences, I am not a native English speaker.
Dave Toussaint great point. Because of that you have to compare players for what they did in their era rather than their actual game because the players of today have many more advantages than someone from the late 50s would have had.
C L It's depend. Yes and no. You can't simply took PPG, TRB, AST and compared players from different time period and extrapolating. For instance, for the 1962 season, the league average was 118.8 PPG (no three-point line), 71.4 TRB, 24 AST/G. How is it fair to compared that to a player, let's say, Karl Malone playing in the 1999 season? 91.6 PPG, 41.7 TRB, 20.7 AST/G. Pace was at his lowest in the NBA history (shot clock era)... Now, if you are still tempted to compare players from different era, you have to use advance metrics (TRB%, TS%, etc.) As the premise demonstrated earlier, who could be possibly the best rebounder ever? No one really knows because Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell & let's say Rodman didn't played each other. Knowing, there were more rebounds available in the past, you can't use TRB/G to compare. But, when you looked at the TRB% (or estimated TRB% for pre-merger athletes), you understand the impact Dennis Rodman had the board. And it's not even close : skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/ Is he better? Possibly. But, you can't hold his era against him.
Dave Toussaint I understand that many stats can't be compared throughout eras case in point Wilts 62 season could most likely never happen again. But when adjusted to pace of play you can compare players from different eras based off of what they each did in comparison to their peers at the time they did play.
Daplayazclub yeah, look at how favorable socialism is today. Did today’s youth forget about the Soviet Union? Oh wait, they did not live to experience it.
The biggest factor IMO is the arrival of high-quality film and video footage of NBA games in 1968-70. Prior to that most footage is blurry and flickering BW film from the 1960s which looks very much like it was shot in prehistoric times. Camera angles were different (lower) so the games looked very different (i.e. like high school games). Thing is, many of the early-60s centers (Wilt, Bellamy) were still active in the early 70s when we started to get (limited) NFL-Films quality game footage, along with higher definition video, and all of sudden they looked more like modern players.
Thank you for this wonderful footage. So tired of trying to tell the young folks about the players from my childhood and how great they were. This was long overdue.
I saw him play,nobody and I mean nobody in the history of the NBA was as dominating as this true great player past or present or future.Just amazing.One of a kind superstar
No, he was #2. Russell beat him like a drum and even Wilt, a great friend of Russell's admitted it saying that Russell did things that made his team win better than anyone else.
@@gdm49 nope wilt always destroyed russel 1 0n 1 and russel had a better team also a better coach wilt got 55 rebounds on russel and 34 pounts but lost cuz russel team was better
If you go by best player, it is Wilt. But one factor Russell had over Wilt was he hated losing. Both put out their best every minute of every game. But that difference in mentality is an edge that Russell enjoyed and capitalized on.
I have been through the situation of defending the reputation of old great players so many times and it is often very frustrating. It seems like people are starting to disregard any footage or any players pre-1986. Michael Jordan was great but his greatness seems to have skewed the perception of the modern NBA fan to thinking anything before his time is now illegitimate. Hopefully, videos like this can help educate people about the greats that are still great and helped make lay the foundation for the NBA's extremely prosperous history.
Joe Slater Works both ways. Many old schoolers are discrediting newer players for no reason. And many youngters are discrediting older players. But, I feel like old heads are tougher towards LeBron James & Coe than the other way around.
In Wilt's 50 ppg season in 1961-62, it looks like he played against: Bill Russell 12 times: Averaged 41.7 points and 27.9 rebounds Walt Bellamy 10 times: Averaged 52.7 points and 24.9 rebounds Bob Pettit 9 times: Averaged 54.2 points and 22.6 rebounds That's almost 40% of his games against HOF centers/PFs and still put up those numbers.
But do note that Bill at least slowed Wilt down some. Of Wilt's 4 worst games that year, 26 28 30 and 31 points - ALL of them were against Bill, and Wilt only averaged an "above average game" ONCE (61 points IIRC) out of the 12.
@@bricefleckenstein9666 Here's the problem, Mr. Russell didn't guard Wilt 1on1. When comparing head to head matchups people either forget or don't know the C's would auto triple Wilt like everyone else.
@@johnhenry2903 Wilt got double, much less triple, teamed QUITE A BIT LESS by the Celtics than by any other team. The Celtics KNEW Wilt was going to "get his points" most of the time, relied a lot more on Bill to play roadbump, while shutting down (as much as possible) the REST of the Wilt's team players for the win. I'm not saying it didn't happen, especially when Wilt was with the Warriors and didn't have a LOT of help - but it was pretty obvious in his 76ers seasons and even his early Lakers seasons before Bill retired.
@@bricefleckenstein9666 I generally don't even count his Laker days when talking about his dominance since he only played 1 season with them before blowing out his knee. However, if you watch his match-ups against the C's as a Warrior & 76er you'll find he was doubled frequently. Now I'll say the C's were far more disciplined and varied about when they were coming, but they nonetheless did it frequently.
Good summary.Willis Reed was one of the most underrated centers in history.If he were playing today,He would teach the players a thing or two about body positioning.
Bill Russell was great in college. He was better offensively than people think. He made his teammates better. Great defensively and great at getting the ball into a fast break. Wilt was the greatest athlete ever to play center in my opinion.
he ran the floor like a sprinter, great finisher on the break, had a few good low post moves, and from what I saw could hit an open 15 footer. underrated on the offensive end.
GREAT INFO!!! I'm 38 going on 39 in October💜♎🌀 so naturally I grew up watching the entire decades of 80s and 90s Centers. My favorite position in basketball. PFs next on my list. THE BIGS!!! I love ALL of those Centers. Man Wayne Embry was a MONSTER THOUGH!!!
This video needs more views! So many good points. I’m sick of hearing how the old nba was filled with “plumbers and doormen” or whatever bull talking heads want to parrot. Assuming that wide of a talent discrepancy between the ‘modern’ nba and ‘pre-modern’ nba is a common fallacy of understanding the past: what, those athletes didn’t compete to get as good as possible at their craft? They were somehow shorter, smaller, uncoordinated? Please, watch old games. Video footage of Russell gliding through the air would have sold a lot of converse in today’s nba! I believe that the NBA integrating in the 1950’s makes the case that these athletes were competing against the best America had to offer, which is unlike the early days of baseball and slow integration of football. So, how come we don’t hold Babe Ruth to the same diminishing standards? After all he never faced one of the best pitchers ever in Satchel Paige!
GREAT VIDEO!!! I'm sooo glad you finished up it up with the comment about how FREQUENTLY these guys played each other. Smaller league means more concentrated talent. Anyone remember the diluted talent during the era when the Heat, Timberwolves, Hornets, and Magic came into the league?
This an awesome great video !!!! You cannot discredit these athletes of the 60s!!!!! Wilt and Bill will always be the best centers of all time then Kareem!
lol that clip at 1:30 of Wilt shaking his head is from the 1997 All Star Game when Glen Rice broke his record for most points in a half....I'll always remember that
Wilt had to because his teams were that bad. For his first 7 years in the league his teammates never shot higher than .382% in the playoffs combined. He was also their only hope of rebounds and defense. He didn't ask play 48 minutes a game, his coaches did. If he is a "stat padding loser" then what about Elgin Baylor? He averaged more shot attempts than anyone in history (more than Wilt) and went 0 for 8 in the Finals. Why doesn't he get ever the same negative treatment Wilt does?
Many young fans think Wilt's competition was sub-par because they look small compared to him. Most modern players would look small compared to him too. In the "measured in shoes" era, Wilt would be shown as 7-3 on the team roster.
many young fans don't recognize the fact that if wilt's competition was sub par, then he would have won more than 2 championships. He played 14 years and won only 2 championships. If his competition was subpar then he would have won 14.
I remember seeing the 50 greatest players at the nba halftime thing and I just couldn’t believe how little Shaq looked next to an old Wilt Chamberlain. I was like whaaa 😲😲😲?
Thanks for this masterpiece, you know, people will always be ignorant about stuff like history of the game, i am so grateful that there are so many of us that wanna learn about the game and appreciate each era by its own meassure. Keep it up.
Darrel Be basketball player deluxe at 6'10 He gave Jabber and Wilt fits. You see how he ran the floor and could spot up 15ft away on a fast break and knock it down he did this repeatedly when I watched him play. Show me 1 center in the NBA now that can do tbat.
not gonna lie the best centers right now are bad but there is a huge wave of potentially great centers coming. Cousins, Towns, Davis, Jokic, Maker, and Embiid are the future of the C
Willis really was amazing in the 60s. In a lot of ways he was a new breed of center who could play both high and low post as well as step outside and drill the jumper. As you pointed out, he was a tremendously sound offensive player. He could rebound and play great defense too. He wasn't on the same level as Wilt or Russell (or Nate Thurmond, who I think is criminally underrated), but I think there's a good argument for placing him ahead of Beaty or Bellamy.
Zelmo Beaty, frustrated that he couldn't do anything against Wilt, yanked Wilt's shorts down. Wilt lashed out and Zelmo slid across the floor as if shot out of a cannon. Ref. Mendy Rudolph rushed over to Zelmo and said "For God's sake stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle!" Wilt was not someone you wanted to anger.
Luke you are right..Zelmo was superb....I saw him in both the ABA and NBA...I am glad he finally made it into the hall...should have been years earlier.....
I believe you have to consider this. Every one of these guys would have come into the league today with the same background as modern players. Weightlifting. Year round hoops. Money. Diet. Three point shot. A great player is a great player. They would all have been great today too.
You omitted Jabbar. Kareem came into the league the year after Russell retired so we never saw them go head to head, but he played against Wilt , Willis and Thurmond. Kareem is the final answer to kids who claim how weak the centers were when Wilt and Russ dominated. Also going forward he played 20 years and never played anyone that came lose to the level of Wilt et al, except for Bill Walton who outplayed him in the regular season as well as the playoffs. My first game was game 7 when Havlicek stole the ball. But thanks, great, great great video.
Kareem by his own admission says that Nate Thurmond is the greatest defender he ever faced. Yet millennials these days claim Wilt couldn't score against long strong defenders.
Do not forget to mention these great centers were shortly to be followed by the likes of Unseld, Hayes, Gilmore, Laneir , Jabbar so these others carried into the seventies early eighties then we added Moses Malone and others
I was an acquaintance of Walt Bellamy, a son of his went to the same high school that I did. He was a very nice gentleman, who was also a great basketball player in the decade of the 60's, who doesn't receive the credit he deserves for being the caliber of center that he was. In my most humble opinion, only Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell were better in the 60's than Walt Bellamy at the center position, certainly nothing to be ashamed of, may he R.I.P. eternally...
I saw Wilt play many times and there was no one, not even Russell, who could stop him. Wilt's all time record of 55 rebounds in one game was against Russell and the Celtics. Wilt regularly scored over 40 against Russell, who many said was the greatest defensive center ever. He couldn't stop Wilt!
He couldn't stop Wilt, but he knew how to beat Wilt -- over and over again. Even Wilt said he believed Russell was the greatest center of all-time because he always won. Reason: Russell had the incredible work ethic and was by far the smartest center who could psych out his opponents with regularity. Wilt said he chose Russell because Bill made everyone around him better and he (Wilt) was more of an individual player. They played each other 142 times. Russell won 88, Wilt won 54.
He couldn't stop him for 48 minutes but he could beat him like a drum. Russell was the smartest player of all time and psyched out his opponents. He was as fast as Wilt and could jump as high. It was his defense and creativity that led to him winning with regularity.
@@gdm49 You obviously have Wilt mixed up with someone else! Russell only dreamed of being able to handle Wilt. The only thing that made Russell successful was that he had a better TEAM than Wilt, at least until 1967 when Wilt finally got some good teammates and led his team to arguably the best team ever! Oh, and by the way, did Russell ever touch the top of the backboard? I doubt it! Wilt did many times. Russell couldn't make a good pimple on Big Wilt's butt!
@@davehill7257 They faced each other 142 times during the 10 years of their rivalry. Russell's Celtics won 85 while Wilt, who was with the Warriors, 76ers and Lakers during that period, was on the winning side 57 times. As to seeing Russell flick a coin off the top of the backboard, I saw him do it in person at Kezar Pavilion when he was at USF. Russell won nine championships to Wilt's one. The argument will rage on forever: Did Wilt just not know how to win, or did he lack the supporting cast that Russell enjoyed? Take the night he scored the 62. The Celtics won the game, 145-136. The Celtics led by 31 in the fourth quarter. Wilt scored 42 in the second half, but his team was never in the game. Russell fans say that was an all-too-familiar scenario when these two played, especially in the first five or six years of their duels. Wilt would score many points during garbage time when the game was out of reach. Wilt was the greatest offensive weapon of all time, but Bill was the greatest PLAYER of all-time. The goal is to win and nobody won like Bill Russell. You belittle Russell's jumping ability but he was the #3 ranked high jumper in the world and his best jump of 6'10", was 4 " better than Wilt's 6'6". Just keeping it real.
@@gdm49 I DO appreciate your reply but the more talented of the two was indeed Wilt. He could do it all! When it was said he was only a scorer he went out and led the league in assists. Of course we both know he was the best rebounder of all time and one of his records is 55 in one game and against Russell and the Celts. You say he scored a lot in garbage time but perhaps even though the game was out of reach due to less talented members with Wilt, he just wouldn't give up. He was without a doubt the most dominant man to ever play in the NBA. Take away Pippen and some of the other Bulls and what does Jordan do? When you compare Wilt's teams with Russell's teams it's the difference between night and day. Until 1967 when Philly finally got Wilt some help look at the difference. Cousy, Heinson, Sharman, Russell, Sanders, later Havlicek! What did Philly have? Only Wilt! It wasn't Wilt that kept them from winning and it wasn't Bill only who kept the Celts winning. If I was starting a team of all timers Wilt would be my first choice.
9:39 idk if anyone else noticed, but after getting scored on by Bill Russell Wilt Chamberlain slaps his butt. Great sportsmanship from both legendary giants.
Far too many people think Wilt played against 6 6 guys. Thanks for this video to show there were some really big men playing prior to the espn, Bird Magic era.
I've had guys tell me rhat Wilt dominated because he didn't play against "anyone". I've tried to explain that there were a lot of talented bigs back then. Don't forget the early 70's, he faced Kareem, Cowens and others...
@@johnnythekid4601Bronsexuals discredit the players of Jordan’s era as much as they discredit Wilt and Bill Russell’s competition. That’s why they are my least favorite fanbase in the NBA.
I saw Wilt play many times, on TV and in person, and there is no one in this day and age who would match up with him. NO ONE! Bill Russell has been said to be the dominant defensive center in history and Wilt AVERAGED over 40 against him. Wilt also grabbed his record 55 rebounds in a game against Russell! He was the best!
Saw him and Russ play sooo many times at Old convention Hall and the Spectrum a few times. Felt like I was at the Colluseum in Rome. Always supercharged event!
The general population of basketball fans and a lot of analysts regurgitate the nonsense that Michael Rappaport and many others think the 60's game was like. When they did the 50 greatest players in 97', more legends and HOFers came from that era than any other. Wilt and Bill not only made their teammates better, the competition all around had to play better. The league pushes Jordan because he made the league international, made the 2 guard position relevant, and brought in the sponsors that turned the league into a billion dollar juggernaut.
Well written! What about Wes Unseld. Maybe 70’s? Those six centers were incredible. Those critics simply want media attention. The speaker is excellent and accurate. THANKS!
Do you have a Wilt vs Knicks footage? I thought Simmons didn't tell the truth and it doesn't exist. How much of footage does really exist? I think it would be nice to make separate video about this performance. Of course only with enough footage. BTW, this is one of your better projects. Amazing display of talent of the 1960s centers. Although I would have Nate over Bells :)
Fred Kruse I don't talk about 100 point game. WCA mentioned here that he saw Wilt 73 points game footage in 1962 against Knicks. He also showed here some sample of highlights from that game. That's why I asked if there is more footage from that game.
For years I have heard a conspiracy theory against Wilt Chamberlain that many decades ago somebody at the NBA archives wiped away the broadcast footage of almost all of Wilt Chamberlains greatest performances as some sort of bias against him, and only preserved some of his worst performances and upsets (1969 Game 7, 1970 Game 7) The only broadcast footage that exists from the 1966-67 Sixers, one of the most dominant teams of all time, is a LOSS against Boston. And the 1972 first championship for the LA Lakers, only the first 3 quarters exist, not the final minutes or championship celebration.
@@Amick44 I'm a Nate Thurmond fan his skills as a center gets lost when talking about the Wilt and Russell during the golden age of center play during the 1960's.
As someone old enough to have seen NBA basketball back in the '60's, I have made many of these arguments in often heated discussions. It amazes me how many argue passionately that Wilt would be nothing more than average if he played in today's NBA. So your video is greatly appreciated (although it would be nice if you had added some graphics on screen to identify the voices we are hearing).
Willis Reed 1st round pick by the New York Knickerbockers Out of Grambling State University in 1964 2x Champion 2x Finals MVP 🏆 League MVP (1970) 🏆 7x All Star ⭐️ 1970 all star ⭐️ MVP 1970 All-Defensive team 1970 1st team all nba 4x second team all nba 1965 ROTY 🏆 Played with New York from 1964-1974 1982 basketball 🏀 hall of fame One of the 50 greatest players in NBA history Number 19 was retired by the New York Knickerbockers A Knicks legend
Loved watching Reed and the Knicks in 1970 and in 1973. I can still hear famed Knicks public address announcer at the Garden saying "At center #19 Captain Willis Reed" RIP John FX Condon
I'd love to know who was speaking during the video that played against them. It's amazing when so-called experts like BIll SImmons or Colin are clueless about the greatness of players in the 60's. Baylor and Connie Hawkins were Dr. J, before Dr. J, and the centers of that era were beyond belief. Gilmore, Lanier, Beatty, Reed, Thurmond Bellamy aren't even discussed in best ever discussions because Kareem, Wilt and Russelll even eclipsed those incredible centers. Kareem, Wilt and Russell were playing against a Hall of Fame lineup of big men in the 60's and 70's.
A lot of testimony throughout the video. Darrall Imhoff, Richie Guerrin, Rick Barry, Bob Pettit, a little bit of Phil Jackson and Jerry West, plus former coaches Fred Schauss and Alex Hannum, and "superstat" Harvey Pollack also Philly bball legend Sonny Hill
@@WiltChamberlainArchive He came a little later, but Dave Cowens deserves mention. He played against most of the guys mentioned in this video and won two rings with the Celtics.
Thank you for this entertaining and important video. This is so very important for the history of this great game. We tend to glorify the players we grow up watching and the older players begin to fade in our collective minds.
I agree with all of your points and it's a great video, to see how skilled players were back then, more skilled than most players today. The league is more athletic and less skilled nowadays. Respect to the old generation
The NBA changed the rules to make it harder on Wilt but easier on Mike. And, regardless of the argument the man STILL holds 90 NBA records. GOAT, period.
@@gdm49 I would suggest that before you post, please check your information. The NBA changed THREE rules DUE to WILT. If you do not know what those were, google is your friend.
@@chuckgraham1695 I would suggest that before you post you know what the hell you are talking about. Bill Russell was so dominant in college that after his performance for USF at the 1955 NCAA tournament two rule changes were enacted in college basketball, not the NBA: (1) The lane was widened from 6 to 12 feet to make it more difficult to pack in offensively, post up, etc. and (2) offensive goaltending or basket interference. This was to lessen his impact on rebounding which he totally dominated. Wilt was a great athlete but no better than Bill whose dominance over Wilt in the win column was the difference between the two. The NBA continued the rule changes when Wilt entered the league. Two best players of all time. Saw them play one another many times.
@@gdm49 www.nba.com/history/legends/profiles/wilt-chamberlain#:~:text=These%20rules%20changed%20included%20widening,the%20ball%20in%20the%20basket). You may check out any link you wish to see the rules changes forced by Chamberlain and NOT Russell in the NBA. I made no comments nor suggestions about anything in his college career, nor will I. This was strictly based on what the man did in the NBA and just how dominating he was.
Excellent video and does a great job of summarizing all this fine centers. I've been watching the NBA since 1965 and to this day Russell and Chamberlain are the two best centers I've seen. Ever. Russell is one of the two most intense competitors I've ever seen, the other being Michael Jordan. The thing you have to remember what a fire lived inside Russell. He had this "I am NOT going to lose" attitude that was by far the main reason the Celtics dominated. I hated Russell, mainly because Baylor and West were my two favorite players. As great as they were, they simply couldn't get past Russell. When the game was on the line Russell would either score a key basket, draw a foul, threw a pass, stole the ball, blocked a shot, or snagged the key rebound to win the game. There is absolutely no question in my mind that Bill Russell is the all time MVP. Chamberlain was the better athlete and more gifted performer, but Russell possessed more of the intangibles than anyone I've ever seen. I lived in Chicago during all of Jordan's career, and Michael had the same kind of fire in him that Russell had. The game he played against Utah when he had the flu was exactly the kind of thing that Russell would have done. Russell won more than Chamberlain in part because he had a better surrounding cast - maybe not superstars like Baylor and West and Robertson (except Cousy at the end of his career; Havlicek was with Russell for years, but I think of him more as the ultimate sixth man rather than a superstar, though he definitely deserved his induction into the HoF), but he also won because he played as if his life hinged on winning it all. What a lot of people don't grasp is that most of today's pros wouldn't even have made an NBA roster.There were only eight teams for much of the sixties, which meant that there weren't that many slots available. There are starters in the NBA today who couldn't have won back up jobs back then. The ignorance that exists about the NBA in the sixties is mind boggling. Even the fifties gets short changed. The three best players from the fifties - Bob Pettit, Bob Cousy, and George Mikan - would all be stars today. Mikan would be a power forward instead of a center, but he would be one of the toughest competitors in the league. He was a brawler and would easily be considered one of the hardest nosed players around. Bob Pettit is unquestionably the greatest forgotten player in the history of the NBA. Even people who dismiss the sixties will still grant the greatness of Baylor, West, Chamberlain, Robertson, and Russell. Bob Pettit was as good as those guys. He overlapped with this for several seasons and during that time averaged close to 20 rebounds a game. He was the first person to score 20,000 points in a career. People either forget or ignore the fact that if they were to be magically transferred to today, they would lift weights like today's players do. Pettit could easily have carried another 25 or 30 pounds and as tough as he was playing at a lighter weight, he'd have been incredibly tough today. Pettit would play today at around 250 of muscle, instead of a lean 225. Real quick on Wilt palming a basketball: there is actually a photography of Chamberlain palming two sixteen pound bowling balls, holding his arms straight out in both directions, holding them out as if they were basketballs. In the 1960s Chamberlain would go on talk shows and he would often pick up the host. I mean, he would simply stick out his arms, and pick up the host as if he were a little kid. Just an enormously powerful man.
I actually enjoy watching these 60s clips. The centres were much much more creative and finesse. No way Tristan Thompson or Clint Capela doing half the things these centers in the 60s are doing
Having seen both Russell and Wilt play dozens of times against guys like Bellamy, Thurmond, Beaty, etc., I laugh when people make dumb claims about playing against short white guys. Basketball in the days of Wilt and Bill was a MAN'S game. You didn't have a bunch of skinny kids who are barely out of high school. You had men playing the game and it was so much more physical than today's game. Also with 8-10 teams, every team was deep and loaded. Wilt and Russell were incredible athletes, not just basketball players. Today's centers wouldn't have a prayer against either one, or Thurmon,d or Bellamy, etc.
As I recall, there was at least one team in the 1960s had *3* future Hall of Fame players - and didn't even make the playoffs. Lakers had West, Baylor, and Goodrich in 1966-1967 - and lost in the *1'st round* to a 76ers team that had *4* HOF players (and eventually beat a Celtics team with *5* HOF players) on Wilt's way to his first championship. Today, a 3 HOF team better be in the Finals and WIN and is considered "seriously stacked" - back then it was barely playoff material with *2* members of the 50 YEAR TEAM on it (West and Baylor are also on the new 75 Year team as well).
@@trollkenobi6727 As opposed to an earlier version of the Warriors, with Wilt - had 4 future Hall of Fame players and didn't even make the playoffs at all. That was the year after Wilt had his 50.4 PPG season - they ended up with a LOSING RECORD the following season. 1962-1963 season. Wilt, Tom Gola, Al Attles, Guy Rogers from that team are all in the Hall.
Great video. Thank you. I am glad somebody finally published what a lot of us older fans already knew. The 60s to the mid 70s was loaded with great, big, and strong centers, as well as great players at all of the positions. No plumbers or taxi drivers in the bunch, as far as I can remember. I enjoyed the 80s a little more, because it was easier to find and watch NBA games on TV, but the early, mid 60s to the mid 70s had some great watches, when you could find them. Buy the way; we can thank Wilt, first, then Russell, and the other great centers and other players like Oscar, Earl, West, Frazier, and others, for getting big TV contracts and exposure for the NBA. Wilt was the reason for TV interest, to start with. He was the one people wanted to watch, whether at live games, or on TV.
The most awesome thing in the NBA is watching wilt getting a rebound and then throwing it the other side of the court with a flick of his wrist. Like Joe montana.
Bill Russell changed the game deserves that respect for using his athleticism to dominate every aspect of the game he was like a point center there would be no “unicorn” without him
I guess Willis Reed would be higher if his two NBA Finals MVPs in 1970 and 1973 were included. He outplayed Kareem and Wilt to lead the Knicks to championships.
Yeah I think he's 6th just because it's a 1960s-only rank. IMO, Reed is better than Bellamy and Beaty and also Thurmond if you take their whole careers. I'd say Thurmond is better than Bellamy too in that case.
lavta outside of Russell and Wilt,Thurmond and Jerry Licas I think, they are only other 2 to players to pull down 40 rebounds in a game.Thurmond recorded the first official double in 4 categories in one game. Great player.
Willis in 1973 finals: 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rbg, 2.8 apg, 49% fg. Wilt against Willis: 11.6 ppg, 19.6 rbg, 3.8 apg, 52%fg I don't see an advantage for Reed there at all. Wilt obliterated him in rebounding and led in assists, while Reed only outscored him by 5 ppg. 1970 finals is a little more complicated since Willis Reed missed essentially two games with injury and in game 7 was basically ineffective (four points on 2/5 shooting). Also, Wilt had just returned from blowing out his patellar tendon earlier that season and had limited mobility. Game 1: Wilt 17 points, 24 boards, 5 assists. Reed 37 points, 16 boards, 5 assists Game 2: Wilt 19 points, 24 rebounds, 2 assists Reed 29 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists Game 3: Wilt 21 points, 26 rebounds, 4 assists Reed 38 points, 17 rebounds, 3 assists Game 4: Wilt 18 points, 25 rebounds, 7 assists Reed 23 points, 12 rebounds, 2 assists Game 5: Wilt 22 points, 19 rebounds, 3 assists Reed 7 points, 0 rebounds, 3 assists Willis was injured after 8 minutes, Knicks won the game without him behind double figures from six different players, clearly showing how deep their team was. In game 6, Chamberlain shredded the Knicks for 45 points and 27 rebounds. Game 7: Wilt 21 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists Reed 4 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist The Knicks again won anyway as Walt Frazier had one of the greatest games in NBA history. It's clear that the Knicks had the much better team since they won two out of three from the Lakers with Reed hurt. Although Willis definitely had a great finals and led Chamberlain in scoring (helped by a recuperating Wilt having a tough time chasing the more mobile Reed around the court), it's tough to argue he outplayed Wilt, who shot better from the field, demolished Willis on the boards, and averaged more assists. Frazier should have been the MVP, but Reed was clearly the emotional choice.
1970 Eastern Division Finals: Willis Reed 27.8 ppg (no rebounding numbers available) Kareem (rookie) 34.2 ppg Please explain to me how that's outplaying Kareem. There is no record I can find of the rebounding totals for that series. For the season, Kareem averaged 16 rebounds to Reed's 14, so there's no reason to think he had enough of a rebounding edge to offset Jabbar's scoring lead. Kareem and Willis didn't compete against each other in the 1973 playoffs as the Bucks were eliminated by the Golden State Warriors. Look, I love Willis and think he has been underrated, but the fact is that he had a short career compared to other hall of fame centers. He never dominated against Wilt or Kareem. Although he had the scoring edge on Wilt in 1970, that was mainly a function of Chamberlain transitioning to being primarily a rebounder and defensive player later in his career, while Reed was the leading scorer for the Knicks. Willis was mythologized by the New York media, in particular because of his dramatic walk onto the court in game 7 in 1970. Still, as I already pointed out the Knicks won game 5 with him only playing 8 minutes and it was highly probable that they would close out the Lakers at home, Willis or no Willis.
Just imagine if they handed out Final's MVP and Defensive Player of the Year back then, or count blocks and steals. Bill would have at least 5 of each trophy, 5k blocks and like 2k in steals. Just imagine the triple doubles too. Scary. You can tell he could jump higher too. These guys would be absolute monsters with modern day training. I could see Bill shooting a much better fg% and ppp today than back then even if he never warmed up to being a scorer or shooter just from lobs and putbacks.
And due to the smaller sized league WIlt and Bill had to play these guys 10+ times a season so if anything it's harder for them than it is for today's centers
1961-1962 season when Wilt scored 50.4 average per game WIlt faced Bill *12* times - and averaged 12 points (appx) LESS per game than against everyone else (41 and a fraction vs over 53). Also had his 4 worst games against Bill - 26, 28, 30, and 31 points - and only TWO games over his overall average - one at 61, one at 51 (I think, might have been 52).
I've watched Wilt, Kareem, Artis, Nate, Shaq, Akeem, David, Tim, and Patrick and none of them would be able to handle Wilt. Wilt has lead the league in scoring, rebounds and assists. Even went an entire season playing almost every minute of every game. Fade away, finger roll and power jam unstoppable.
