TOROIDAL PROPELLER on a DRONE | DIY 3D printed 

i know and i also pinned it. to me its shown as a pinned comment. but someone else also told me it wasnt pinned. just redone the pinning process. is it shown as pinned comment to you now?

@@quadmovr Yes it's showing pinned, here. Fantastic work, friend. I'm very excited for the 3d printing world, it's becoming more and more affordable as the production continues. I grew up tinkerer, but my friend you are truly mastering a craft and it's great to see. Just subscribed! I hope you have an awesome day🤟😁

Lower frequency noise so quieter to humans?

Well why didn't you balance it and clean it. Debile 🤦

great video but holy hell this comment and the description are the most pretentious things ive ever seen in my entire life. for anyone wanting to get into the hobby, don't let people like this gatekeep you out of it. it really isn't difficult at all. this guy just loves placing himself above everybody else.

Definitely the flying, this mans flying skills are on a different level than most mere mortals. The props are pretty cool too though, I wonder how long before we see them coming out of China.

@@Stambo59 honestly i came for the props but he is no mere mortal

First Time?

@@lucaspohlmann7162 what? Definitely not his first time flying.

Yeah his flying is best…. He’s been a OG speed trick flyer, always makes me smile. 😊 Cheers

Same

You should look at FPV drones then. This is standard agility for them.

@@Bipolar_WeaselThanks for pointer, man!

@@tomparatube6506 - sure! Look up "Glass Dancing" by Le Drib or "Ripping a Roller Coaster" by Rotor Riot. "Evolve II / FPVyle" is pretty amazing as well as "Johnny FPV x Beautiful Destinations - Turkey"

There are the 'SUV' drones (big, fat, doesn't manuver well at all. lots of creature comforts and driver assists....basically DJI stuff) and then there the 'F1/Race car' drones (smaller, slimmer, super manuverable, no driver assists at all...FPV racing/freestyle drones).

yeah, it's probably not that easy to get it right to make it quieter like theirs.

@@richfromtang the invention in itself yes, but the applicability is quite different. This is not even the first video to try it and so far I haven't seen anyone make it quieter. It's not just the shape, the angle of attack, the little things seem to make a lot of difference so it will take some tries until someone figure it out and everyone start to tweak it. I don't think it's so hard to get it to work but it's certainly not trivial.

@@theSUBVERSIVE watch Sharrow Marine's videos about their toroidal marine propellers. Same principle, different fluid (air vs. water). MIT just got the hype.

@@sepg5084 MIT didn't get the hype necessarily, I'm sure whoever did testing for toroidal boat props would have gone viral too if they had the internet to boost them as well. In reality there's only one thing that usually stops something like this from being adopted everywhere, and it's oppressive copywrite and IP laws. Remember, the only reason 3d printers haven't been a commonplace hobby tool for the past 40 years is extremely oppressive trademarks and copyright. There have been FDM fabrication machines since the 70's, they just cost 45k to buy for no reason.

Yes, they just have 2 rings to prevent the disturbing between flows.

and he is flying vlos

Check out his other vids then, this quad is slow and its performance mild compared to some of his others.

Me neither. However it’s completely insignificant since I don’t watch people piloting drones. Should I suppose you do?

Yeah that's sick!

LOS GOAT

I've tested a dozen or so toroidoal props sets on my various quads, both 3d printed or mold injected (most common way normal drone props are created). I've tried various pitches and lengths as I was a big believer trying new things and the Toro props really got my attention. I wanted quieter props that gave me longer flight times. Every Toro prop set I have tested are more noisy than standard 3 blade props. No matter where the throttle is set, Toro props pull more current and I always have ended up with less flight time per battery. They are no more or less responsive than standard tri-blade props, but they have more propwash and no amount of messing with my PIDS would clean up how the Toro props would shudder and shake when 'braking' or doing hard manuvers. I also needed significantly more throttle to get my drone to hover when using any Toroidal prop.

I have flown a drone exactly a single time in my life, but even that single time made me appreciate better the mad skills of the video author.

It sounds like an airplane

@@alexandresoutonogueira7675 the toroidal one, yes. The eight blade sounds so quiet after it.

Nice! I almost missed that.

This says more about 3D printed structure and quality than prop shape, though.

@@Scapestoat That is one thing I am mainly interested. How silent can toroidal properels be. Are they loud due to how they are made or due to shape just being loud by default so to say.

Noctua knows their business lol

@@Baronello is that one of their fan designs adapted to be a quad prop?

😂 am also impressed by how silent the 8 prop is, so I was wondering how the other prop made MIT win as the most silent prop😂😂😂

@@AfricanBantu254I believe MITs prop design is intended for use in water, thats where they saw the huge increase in efficiency and sound. It definitely seems like it’s improvements dont transfer as good to air.

In a catastrophic failure the toroidal design maybe safer.

Don't go near Ukraine, or you will be conscripted.

They are quite but a lot less efficient. Those designs are not new at all, rather they have been known, researches and tested for decades. There are areas where they have been in use for a long time like submarines - where keeping it quite is important.

@@ABaumstumpf the classic ones also seem a lot less bulky, having less drag on non-forward movements, less noise and less weight.

@@cristitanase6130 noise is not inherent to toroidal propellers but rather this specific design and manufacturing method (3d printing is NOT gonna cut it, it is waaayyy to fragile and coarse). Comparing a normal and a toroidal propeller, both decently designed and manufactured, for the same thrust the normal one will need less power and the toroidal will be quieter.

@@ABaumstumpf there are some things no amount of polish can fix: 1. the noise, the more the blade contact surface, the higher the friction. The higher the friction, the higher the noise. 2. the noise (yes, once again). Some of the parts are not facing the incoming airflow. Especially during turns. What will happen then? More drag, more friction, more noise. A lenticular propeller is thin and has a low drag on side movements. Not so for these propellers. 3. the drag, same with the noise. More surface and more angles, more drag. 4. the weight, self explanatory 5. the heat, more drag, more heat. Not that important on plastic models with low speed, but extremely important on large metal propellers at high speeds. 6. the structural strength. These propellers have a lot of weight on the outer ring. That weight gets increased a lot due to the centrifugal force. Depending on the materials used, adding friction and heat, the connected elements may break, bend or elongated. Big problems on the long run. Making them thicker may solve the problem, but adds weight and drag and makes them even more expensive. 7. the manufacturing complexity and the price. These things are far more complex that regular blades and they use more material(s), often high quality heat resistant one(s). This increases the costs. Without a big difference in efficiency, fuel consumption, speed or repair costs they won't become a viable alternative.

Pun intended?

@@Henry-zm9qg I want to see an A"I" fly acro like that. Well, I don't. The only example I know of is where they had an Extra 540 model hover on its own (intended as a kind of STOL thing for military applications). And even that was no A"I" but a regular, old, _actual_ algorithm, i.e. programmed by hand. The kind of acro you see here requires creativity, ingenuity, and most of all, playfulness.

Load it with AI and guns, and we're all screwed :D

it was put fast forward - the movement of the hand wouldnt cope with such a pace (the other hand was controlling the drone and first was controlling the camera?) never.

RC Helis can do same thing, search for 3D RC Helicopter Flying, on youtube. The sounds of the blades are crazy

Uh, that is how EVERYONE used to fly... And hang on a single prop with rudder hitting the ground...

I don’t know if eyes have the FPS for the FPV for this one, must be fine first person

@@w8stral ye, it is how everyone used to fly in the past. Helicopters, planes... but quadcopters? How the hell can He identify wich part is the front and which one is the back? That's the magic i cannot understand

@@Ezoriel666 You know where you are. News flash on normal aircraft with a single prop your eyes will deceive you and you have no idea what orientation the aircraft is in by using your eyes only. You only know by where and how long you have hit the sticks. Same goes for Quadcopters.

"decently" bro he was flying like madman

@@TwashMan Madman is the only gear he knows. He'd madman a potato.

Those props aren't crude, they're a recent development from some college or another that people are trying out. Supposedly quieter and lower energy than traditional props. OFC this fellow did not offer any comparisons whatsoever so it's not really helpful at all.

@@amzarnacht6710 The uniform thickness single axis extrude sweep in Fusion 360 is what I'm referring to. Normally these blades would be a compound curve like a spline with most likely a non-uniform thickness profile. This is just a quick sketch and stretch.

@@Ratkill Engineer, here. Will be using "sketchN'stretch" XD

would love to try and compare the MIT design to conventional props. unfortunately its not accessible to the public. the 8 blade prop is already unusual quiet. a normal 3 blade prop is noisier.

This is the first time I've seen 8 bladed quadcopter props - not surprised they are so much quieter than the typical 2/3 bladed props used most of the time.

@quadmovr where did you get the 8 bladed props? Did you do some simple comparison, like flying a pre programed flight track, with different propeller configurations, to compare data like energy consumption and noise? Both are highly interesting for the development and deployment of drones in different use cases...

wasnt expecting them to hold up at all either.

Lay a few thin layers of resin on them. Reinforce and smooth them out. I'm going to print some out asap.

Same, given the insane multi-directional stresses on those blades, I thought they'd shatter for sure.

Print one and make a mold of it.

@@EREBUSAETHER most castable plastics are super brittle and heavy

The ellipse shape sounds like a bad idea because fans needs to be balanced in a 360 degree circle. If one 'side' of theirs is longer or heavier than the others then its going to be out of whack immediately

@@nemtudom5074 Check the MIT propellers that inspired this. They use elliptical shapes and are perfectly balanced.

@@Pixelarter Huh, okay

@@nemtudom5074 I think what they are saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the props are essentially three circles joined together. The individual circles need to be more elliptical in shape. Still maintaining the balance but increasing the efficiency.

@@BLUELEADER78 Ah, yes, in that case, it *should* work, since the weight distribution is event I thought you meant one elliptical 'ring' attached to the motor in the middle

The video ist fast forwarded. But still good flying skills :)

​@@Methsman no its not, you can hear someone cough at normal speed, and otherwise the wind would't sound realistic and it does

@@Methsman You haven't been around here much, have you

@@jasonbowman6931 hahaha you have never seen drones in real life have you? Wake up man this is just reality these days

same, that's what I thought then I first saw it

Same. I was waiting for them to explode.

havnt expected it to hold up too. happy it did.

I agree Bob. It would be interesting to build a spreadsheet with all the data. Then plot the thrust curve to Amp draw. Using black box.

Hey Bob, check out the t-motor v2808 motor spec thrust test. They are the first to have tested the HQPROP 5x4x6 (5040 in the test) compared to a 7" prop. Assuming this motor is ideal for these props, the data says the multi blade are about 20% less efficient and have 20% less top end thrust. I fell the 5x4x6 are very locked in and much much more quiet. So if it is quietness that you`re looking for, the 6 or 8 blade props are the most viable option for that purpose at the moment. The multi blade props just need more distance to each other to avoid prop wash.

Same to me… they don’t really sound quieter…. They sound different, scream less perhaps, but make more whooshing sounds! This was a great test Quadmover did. Much respect and kudos to him!

they can`t sound any quieter because they are 3D printed and not even shaped as a proper airfoil. I think we need to give prop manufacturers a few months to play with this idea to see some decent results 🙂

Yeah I think this design isn't optimal for that particular drone, but I think most of the sound that you're hearing is the motors themselves. It seems to get a lot quieter as it get further away though as claimed, seems very promising.

Bear in mind, these aren't optimized toroidal propellers, they're a rough but functional approximation of the real thing. I think with more tuning they could be made much quieter than conventional props.

Remember that you compare 3d printed rough, thick and heavy toroidal props to injectionmolded flawless 8-blade props. With this in mind imo the toroidals performend very good.

Wow!!! Very impressive! Toroidal would be a much safer design since blades are a knife and well out of Feng Shui, but too noisy. All drones are too noisy, the next challenge.

Decently produced toroidal propeller should be a bit quieter but the difference is not that big

@@alfredocampanelli noise can also be a good thing, as it is with cars. E-cars are, in certain situations, less safe because you dont hear them.

Those are 8-blade carbon fiber props with an aerofoil profile vs a 3 blade 3D printed prop with a flat cross-sectional profile. Basically the quietest props you can possibly buy vs a 30-minutes model and print. The toroidal props have lots of room for improvement, and even where it is, they sound surprisingly pleasant.

@@jonp8015 I'm actually impressed that even if the model is wrong (MIT props are way different, but I guess physics is still there) they perform so well. Noise is probably doe to 3d printing layers enterfering with air more than those smooth carbon props We need better models lol I actually wonder about this tech being used in cooling fans. Fan showdown kicked into high gear and people are sending in more and more models for testing. Interesting stuff

@@DARKredDOLLAR Fan Showdown guy *just* did a video on this, though he's using his own attempt at reverse engineering the fan. Will be interesting to see just how much the MIT version differs from these attempts.

@@jonp8015 yea yea, I've seen it. One fan so far. Waiting for more fan made fans (lol)..

@@jonp8015 idealy they should have been compared to a 3d printed 3/6 bladed fan with a similar blade profile.

I am wondering how varying geometries of the loops, materials used, will change the sound profile, and efficiency. I am interested in hover point noise comparison, between tri-blade, tri-loop, bi-loop. If I was going for sound as the most important constraint, and put performance and speed, below that constraint, at a low RPM, I wonder if and how far away the sound would be dampened to the sensitivity of human ears. But most of all, I wish I had a friend at MIT. (thank you MIT for sharing this, but man I wish I knew someone there 😉)

Or one can just print them out of PC filament

@@Inertia888 sound profile in essence drops to lower pitch..

quite impressed!!! Especially with the loads placed on 2 perimeter FDM. I look forward to seeing SLA with aerodynamic prop shape blended in.

LOS beast! 😮

Been seeing a lot people make these I’m curious if HQ or someone will hop on bored and make some out of injection molding. Would love to hear your opinion on them.

Yeah I thought they explode 😂

Yeah for sure me too, surprised they take it so well!!

A 8 blades toroidal design with a more polish construction surely bets the two... Both models have a VERY impressive efficiency transfer of power in a pure vertical ascension flight !!!

I was surprised the toroidal blades were as noisy as they were. The 8 blade seemed much quieter.

@deepsleep7822 It's worth bearing in mind that the toroidal propellers were 3d printed, whereas the 8 blade propellers seem to have been professionally manufactured. That would mean much greater precision, and that their size and shape had also been tailored for the drone in question. As such, it's no surprise that the toroidal propellers underperformed in this test. A more equal one would be comparing two two 3d printed designs.

​@@deepsleep7822 you call that quieter? its noisy and sounded like a drill.

Cool idea!!

@LOL-Yolo sure the 8 blade normal props were proper snappy, but the flight with the toroid props is clearly not flown in angle mode. This pilot's got skills!

Me too

That’s what I was going to say, also reminded me of the 8 blade versions of the C-130 props…

Well, they are correctly designed while the toroidal are just a rough simple one. A propper design could be similar to the octo for sure.

they are quieter, it sounds loud because you have no comparison audio... only the sound of the motors and blades... just the same as LED lights comparisons done at night... you cant go off of images for their output, you have to have a lumen meter for lights, and a A-weighted dB meter for audio

Yeah they did a test the noise levels are pretty close when you measure in DB and not by ear.

Same here, with his usual style of flying, I was expecting these props to come apart after a few hard turns.

afaik they are supposed to be quieter than normal drone props

I was expecting them to explode

it's hard to evaluate the flight time with this style of flying. Also 3D printed props are 2.6g heavier. total of 10.4g. That alone affects flight time and flight characteristic. ok actually it's 6.5g difference between the 2 frames. So he could add 6.5g to make them equals and then hover tested them for flight time. MIT paper said that it's similar efficiency this mean it's less then regular props. The magic is suppose to be lower sound.

You are the master of los for real

He's using the inferior materials and the build quality

Your dad is absolutely right. The toroidal propeller like this looks ineffective. The actual air speed changes among propeller radius., so the shape should be more complicated. We see only excellent flight skills. No efficiency measurement and comparison to the classic propeller shape.

Yeah without post-print cleanup the printed blades would have a significant amount of drag from the layer lines, but considering that, I think they did really well for a printed part.

@@rueben225 absolutely. And i think they would survive a crash a bit better than normal propellers.

Seems like it could add to blade life if running into tree branches is a problem for a pilot

On this note tho, considering the dimensions of these blades and the properties of air, are layer lines really a big deal? I don't have either the knowledge not the experience on the matter to discuss it but knowing 3d printing i wonder what is the actual effect. Theoretically, yes, of course it has an impact, but couldn't it be negligible in a real life scenario? Or maybe it's it negligible only if the dimensions of the propeller are bigger than a certain threshold?

Golf balls have dimples to make them fly much longer. I wonder if a prop could have dimples? Could that improve aerodynamics in any way?

expected the same. but the closed loop design gives them alot of stability.

If you put up a video about it, I would watch

Would love to test your designs if they're public.

building a similar one (only building): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XquGWoBzxaU.html

@@quadmovr wow nice! Thanks :D

The sound you hear is most likely the roughness of the 3D printed surface as well as the plastic deforming slightly as the velocity increases. Maybe hollow printing them in resin? In any case I think the real innovation here is being able to print a capable prop using a hobby printer.

@@AlfieMakes Sounds like a recipe for exploding props, but might be useful for spy stuff if it worked

as written in the description these are just a very quick and simple design. a well designed and produced one may be very different. this simple design is less efficient, heavier, and overall worse. but i was surprised the printed props hold up the forces. the closed structure give them alot of stability.

Good observation. I am glad the tester tested both propellers. Be interesting to see 2, 3, 4-blade propellers as well ?

@@rscott2247 - less blades mean the drone is noisier but more responsive. As a prop Blade spins it leaves turbuleance in its wake that reduces the efficiency of the blade that follows it, since the minimum number of blades a prop can have and maintain balance is 2 this makes it the most efficient. When you add more blades those blades are closer together and therefor see an even greater decrease in efficiency. You do get more thrust out of a tri-blade or a quad-blade, but it’s a thing of diminishing returns. Adding more blades to a propeller also increases its drag, and mass making the motor work much harder to spin the prop, which results in a higher amp draw, lower flight time, and greater strain on the battery. The advantages of having more blades on a propeller is that it will produce more thrust, and thus carry more weight, and will feel more “grippy” when doing quick maneuvers. Another advantage they have over a bi blade is that they don’t have to be as perfectly balanced to fly smooth. Where as a bi blade has to be perfectly balanced and un damaged or it will create nasty vibrations while it’s spinning, and a tri/quad blade prop can take more abuse and produce less vibrations. 2-bladed props are for those who think speed and efficiency are important, but don't mind about being as manuverable. They are usually cheaper to make and to purchase, however they are much less stable than props with more blades, do not 'grip' the air as well as props with more blades. When you let off the throttle, the drone will lose lift much faster (they are not 'floaty'). 2-bladed props are more noisy than any regular props and equal to or less noisy than Toroidal props. 2-bladed props are great for consumer drones where long flight times are a requirement however. 3-bladed (tri-blade) props are better for stability, thrust and manuverability, which is why every serious racing drone pilot today uses tri-blade props. 3-bladed props 'grip' the air better than 2-blade props, so tighter and more snappy manuvers are possible. When letting off the throttle, 3-bladed props loose less lift, meaning they are more 'floaty'. They have higher thrust, but also take more current to use as they are less efficient as they create more drag vs a 2-blade prop. Most FPV drone pilots prefer three-blade propellers as they are a great balance between efficiency and power, they provide more grip in the air due to the extra surface area compared to two-blade. On the other hand, two-blade is more efficient as they creates less drag and draw less current, hence great for long range flying. Quad-blade propellers are great for indoor tracks and cornering, but they are less efficient than tri-blade, they 'stall out' easier and put more strain on the motors, wearing them out faster. They also are very 'floaty', meaning dropping the throttle will have the drone lose altitude much slower. They are better for NOTA flying where ground effect actually can start playing a role. Hex- and Octo-blade propellers are not recommended for normal flight due to their extremely inefficient airflow. But inefficiency shouldn’t prevent flight. It will reduce your lifting power and flight time. It will put a greater strain on your motors and battery, they manuver poorly and maintain a lot of lift when the throttle is reduced.

No. They would not be good for that. They might be 'quieter' but you will have severly reduced flight times as they have high drag and cause your battery to drain faster. They also will put a greatly increased strain on your motors, meaning they will wear out faster and have a greater chances of failing in flight. There is a reason most consumer-grade and even professional-grade photo/video drones use 2-bladed props. They give the longest flight times. Many videos on youtube and guide online from reputable drone enthusists and professional have been done on this topic.