Touhou 15.5: Antinomy of Common Flowers - Joon/Shion Story 

Holy shit you're right.

PLOT TWIST: Koishi herself is already her own dream version

Kishi acts subconsciously, so I guess the dream version would be identical xd.

@@benjaminbeneventi1154 I mean, according to Doremy, Koishi doesn't dream at all, because Koishi's heart is so hollow

Honestly, I find it interesting to think of Byakuren's Dream self that way. The look on the outside is that she's just lazy, and maybe she is, but I always thought there was a bit more to it. Maybe that's it.

Yo dawg, we heard you like boss fights, so we put a boss in your boss fight so you can fight a boss while you fight a boss.

MissingnoTheGreat go ask zun I guess

Lmao I saw a comment you put in the video for tenshi’s theme from like 9 years ago

Where does It show up? I mean, he's mentioned in the endings, but I don't remember seing him/her/whatever...

I FOUND YOU FINALLY Another person on Touhou Amino! Oh Yeah I’m Shikieki Repent it’s just there too many Shikieki RU-vid accounts

@@breadokey8607 oh hi :V :V :V

@@mikofanboy9711 Oh yeah! Man... That was on the final ending... And I just played through that one!!! Embarassing~ Thanks, though! :D

FUCKING. GENIUS!!!

its pretty canon since the legend about the catfish earthquake thing

that last one checks out

Correction, Dream Tenshi is a wannabe Viridi.

@@extremmefan7305 who?

Viridi is the goddes of nature from _Kid Icarus: Uprising._ She hates humanity for defiling the natural order. Also, we learn of a few other tidbits through Doremy's versus dialogue. Futo, for example, wants to become an influential leader like Miko. I won't bore you with it, however - if you want the lore, look it up on the wiki. Edit: Also, lazy Byakuren is a classic example of a bait-and-switch in Touhou. ZUN's had a history of trolling the fandom by later tacking on character traits completely contrary to how the fandom depicts them.

@@Flygoniaks thanks

But aren't most Urban Legends supposed to be dark and intimidating? I can't see if Perfect Possession still includes as Urban Legends but it's still a good idea if PP is Urban Legends itself.

If the Doppelganger can be Sumireko's new UL, I fail to see how Perfect Possession wouldn't be the slightest bit intimidating. If someone else, be it a doppelganger or a completely different person, started replacing me in the real world and I was stuck in some dream, I'd freak out.

Another detail that supports this theory is that one of their normal spell cards, specifically Possession Stripping "Slave Robber", interacts with Perfect Possession in a way that no other attack does.

Turbo Granny, Okiku-san, the Loch Ness monster, and little green men aren't exactly "deadly," either.

I'm sorry to respond to this a whole year later and clutter your inbox, and while it's a great theory, it does have a countertheory. "Joon was originally intended to be a single character with an Urban Legend taking on a human form. This concept ended up changing as Antinomy of Common Flowers' development went along, turning into a pair of misfortune-bringing gods." -Strange Creator of the Outer World Jo'on's "urban legend" of sorts is probably her place of origin and how she probably came into Gensokyo in the first place. The Japanese asset price bubble. Her Last Word is called Extortionist of the 80's and she beats you up and hands you a notice of debt (if thpatch is to be believed). All other Last Words are based on Urban Legends, so this makes the most sense in my mind. Where Omega's explanation in the video falls short (and I don't blame him, researching this was a little bit annoying) is why this spell card is named this way in the first place. To be precise, this is referring to an economic bubble in late-80's Japan where prices for things like real estate and other property raised in price in Japan, as well as the Yen being higher valued than had been seen up until that point, until the bubble burst in 1992 and Japan hit a major economic recession. Now why is this an urban legend when it's clearly a historical event? There's basically two ways I can think about it. The first way is with how the actual card plays out in the first place - Jo'on is clearly beating up the player for money and hands the player a bill for some kind of debt. Considering she's an extortionist from the spell card title (and her...general personality I guess) she was likely either a con artist of some variety or a yakuza member since she's...beating the money out of you. Not to mention that when it comes to the mafia and their portrayal in modern media, they are pretty rich and flashy. It could be an exaggeration of that time period like in the Yakuza games. The other idea is a bit less theoretical despite not really being based on anything in-game aside from the name. My idea is that Jo'on and Shion (being two characters, one siphoning money to herself and generating it from unsuspecting people, the other being based on poverty) are based on the historical event of the bubble itself (Jo'on being the bubble, Shion being the recession)... they ARE the Urban Legend to some extent. Hearing this idea of an Urban Legend made manifest into a Touhou character like in the SCotOW interview leads me to believe this could've been intentional, at least at some point in development. Or in the final game! I don't know for sure. This could be how they entered Gensokyo, as Japan is now out of said recession (or so I'm led to believe) and it has fallen out of the public unconscious, leading them to Gensokyo. And for those in the replies asking about an Urban Legend being dark and intimidating? Nothing gets much more dark and intimidating (and...real) than an economic recession/depression potentially taking away what you hold dear... Additional note and edit: reading this article more, it seems that Perfect Possession really was geared to be their Urban Legend, since Tasogare practically confirms it. So maybe my theory is more based on the artifacts from earlier in development, then.

She too busy to....sleep

But in Extra there would be no lasers.

I'm glad I finally get to play it later this month on Switch. Also, wow, Reisen was not kidding about Miko's condescending attitude.

@@nicholaswhaling7233 Definitely. Miko is a Condescending basterd

Yeah just like th 12.3

I wonder if that catfish is Tenshi’s pet

You know what's funny? Byakuren's really good at disguising her true intentions, even in the dream world. Apparently her actions, habits, and lifestyle in the real world and the dream world are nearly identical, to the point where even Doremy is fooled. This goes deeper than we thought.

Magni56 yeah, but no normal person would want to secretly killer queen anyone they don’t like.

Magni56 also, she mentions how her making her disciples work is for her to not have to do any work. Guess what Byakuren does. Make her disciples do all the work. Her dream version is just willing to admit that.

@Magni56 You got it wrong yourself. They aren't the same people. They just *look* the same. They act according to what their real selves normally subconsciously feel but several times over. Doremy literally explains that with her scenario with Reisen. So yes, there is a high chance that Byakuren is lazy af and that miko hates poor people. We just don't see it normally because unlike dream dwellers, their real selves have the restraint to not say and do shit like that out in the open. This is as much of a reveal as you're going to get about how these people actually truly feel. Just because it wasn't "indicated" in the way you wanted it to be doesn't mean it can just be written off like that. If she wasn't doing something like that at all, not even in the slightest, then her dream self wouldn't have even brought it up. But her dream self brought it up, so guess what? Byakuren at least is somewhat lazy and makes the others do all/most of the work to make her life easier. You're implying that there's no connection between what the dream world version says and what the real world version actually feels, and that's just plain wrong on every level. Here's an example: Reisen is basically going on a rampage on people that she subconsciously fucking despises. Byakuren is one of these people. After the battle and after Doremy's whole explanation, it's confirmed that that means that Reisen normally feels that way about Byakuren. What does this mean? It means that Reisen genuinely does not like Byakuren but has enough restraint to not shoot her in the fucking face everytime they meet. How does this translate to Byakuren? It means what dream Byakuren said is most likely true to a pretty high extent but real Byakuren has enough restraint to not make it blatantly fucking obvious every frame you see her in. Just like how you don't see Miko consistently making snarky remarks at poor people every printwork or game you see her in, but she clearly subconsciously feels some sort of way about them. Your "zero indication" comment fails to take that into account. TLDR: The dream versions give a good idea of the real version's general outlook of things, and directly mirror what they actually feel, just more intensely. So while Miko doesn't like poor people, she probably doesn't actually want to massacre every single one of them. And while Byakuren is probably actually pretty lazy and shifts alot of the work onto the others, she probably isn't 100% lying about discipline and all that.

@Magni56 Except they aren't they same people in that manner either, exactly. They are completely different entities. The dream versions just *look* the same. That's what Joon says Yukari told her and I'm pretty sure that's also what Doremy claims. Mamizou's dream self also refers to her real self as a completely different entity. They quite literally don't have any other personality other than the true feelings of their real counterparts, and are incredibly sensitive to boot. The main part of your comment I took issue with was the zero indication part. The dream self giving a whole spiel about how they are really lazy and would rather achieve enlightenment without any form of hard work is a pretty big indication that it wouldn't be beyond Byakuren to cut corners and do things similar to what the dream version said she is doing. In fact, I don't see why you would think that there isn't at least a slight indication that Byakuren works that way. That argument just contradicts how the dream versions work in general. The best argument you can make is that the dream self exaggerated a bit, not that there is absolutely no connection between what the being which is literally Byakuren's desires incarnate says and what Byakuren actually does without openly telling anyone. The intent should be pretty clear that if the dream self is admitting something like that, they are essentially exposing their real counterparts as they stay completely true to themselves. Which further adds to why it makes no sense for you to say that there is "zero connection" Now you're just contradicting yourself. If the dream world version is basically an exaggerated form of how the real world version truly feels, then Byakuren being lazy and making the others do all the work for her under whatever guise she feels like without telling anyone should be pretty sharply implied there, if not outright stated. There's a pretty big connection there. Its called common sense. If the dream version described Byakuren as being absurdly lazy, even to the point of making the others do work for her just to make her life easier, you can't just waltz in and call it a lie. That makes zero sense. Dream world versions are completely true to themselves and express the true feelings and desires of the real world version without any restraints or filters. There's heavy implication that what the dream self said is *at least* somewhat true while there is *zero indication* that what dream Byakuren said was just a complete and utter lie with little to no relevance to how Byakuren secretly acts. At which point, why would ZUN even add it? Kinda defeats the whole purpose of Byakuren's case.

@Magni56 I'm starting to think you're the one who can't read. Or maybe you just aren't reading my posts and are assuming I'm agreeing with you based on the first sentence? You're gonna have to work on that attention span then. Otherwise, it seems like you're just claiming that I'm misunderstanding your point just to hide the fact that you can't combat mine. You said that there is zero connection between what the dream world version says and what the real world version does. I'm saying common sense dictates that if the dream world version exposes the real world version for doing something that the public wouldn't typically expect them to do, odds are they are actually doing that thing. Because you know, *that's kinda the point* ? Like I said before: you can claim that what the dream world version said was exaggerated and that Byakuren acts to a lesser degree than what was claimed, but you can't just up and claim that there is zero connection between the two as if what dream Byakuren said was essentially an utter lie.

The tanuki that transformed Tenshi into a catfish is both a reference to that dream catfish, but also another reference entirely. I japan catfish are strongly associated with earthquakes, similarly that's what Tenshi's known for pulling off on numerous occasions. Thus, her animal transformation is a catfish

A burst of danmaku

Her best

I'm pretty sure that pressing the tag button in this story just makes Shion do a little burst attack if the bar's full enough.

No, Shion is pretty much a piece of Joon's moveset. In Versus she's attached to both the master/slave sort of like how Kasen's eagle is. So yeah Shion's totally confirmed to be a bird, but that's just a theory.

Shion acts more like a stand of sorts to Joon as opposed to someone you can switch to. Pressing the tag button brings her out and lets her attack (that large burst attack at 30:04 is what you get from pressing the tag button). But other than that a lot of Joon's attacks after that involve using Shion in some way. Like sending her to possess someone and drop bullets on them to also being able to swap _with_ said Shion that's over their shoulder.

Worth mentioning is that outside of Story Mode, you can freely select Master and Slave, and Jo'on and Shion count as one single character, as you can still pair them with someone else. (At least that I believe, I saw my friend once pairing up Jo'on & Shion with Tenshi. [lol])

Bummer, I was waiting for shion´s moveset and how she attacks people