It certainly helps that the former president/CEO & current chairman is an avid racer who partakes in stuff like the 24h of Nurburgring even at the age of _67_ and talks about how cars should be fun to drive. It's nice to know there's a company out there that's actually run by somebody passionate about cars, and isn't just a soulless exec who only cares about the bottom line.
There’s just no way that Toyotas going to have a next gen Supra and GR86 , and bring back the MR2, Celica, and Starlet. It’s gotta be one way or the other.
@@chezzyperson3339 The Supra is going to have a top level insane version in a few years and then go out for a bit. If an actual MR2 happens it will be with Porsche. the next gen 86 could be a celica. I doubt we will see Starlet, but it would be awesome if we did.
with fuel prices rising and 80s-90s kids becoming old enough to buy/ afford cars like these, a super small toyota performance car is the perfect car atm
@@morebrainmoregains3234 too many problems.. hybrid cost more, it gots more moving parts that can break down meaning higher maintenance costs, and a hybrid feels like a leech on the gas engine and i just don't like leeches
@@badboy-gn8fu the opposite actually. EPA regulations have gotten so strict at this point, they're adding so much bullshit in cars to make them compliant. They're not the simple NA engines of pre-2010 era anymore, they're extremely neutered and they need turbochargers which will 100% cause issues as plastics get brittle and crack. Hybrids on the other hand are much more simpler than a turbocharged ICE car. Its pretty much a generator attached to the motor. They don't even need alternators and starters. Toyota's ecvts don't have clutches and are fully mechanical so they are extremely reliable. Their batteries are on its 5th generation, so they've gotten rid of majority of the issues with their batteries. You should watch "Care care nut" video on hybrids. He goes in depth on why hybrids are the best now.
Mazda designed that car on its own still, and just let Fiat copy it's homework without making it look too obvious. I don't think they want Toyota calling any shots & Toyota is known to want control whenever they get involved after the Toyota Cavalier debacle. That said the Scion iM or Corolla iM was a reskined Mazda 2 or Mazda Demio, so who knows that might still leave room for Toyota reskining a Mazda in the future What Toyota needs to do is to partner with Mazda for the next Supra since Mazda has newly developed Twin Turbo Inline 6 powerplants. Plus Mazda styling that stays far more timeless then most these other brands is a trait that Supra fans expect & only the "Japanese Alfa Romeo"(AKA Mazda) seems to still be able to deliver on. If we suddenly see Toyota buy up more Mazda shares we can suspect some sort of collaboration underway, it's what they did with Subaru
Kirk, Yesterday was the first time in a long time I did not bring up the mythical Toyota S-FR when you wanted to talk about a Miata . 😉😉 I am too tall for the Miata so I hope I can fit in the S-FR. We are desperately short of sub-compact hatches let me be the first to D-E-M-A-N-D the return of the affordable Starlet to our market. 🥳🥳🥳🥳
@BrianEugeneLee-xq2hy can you really blame Toyota when BS government trying to force car manufacturers to be fully EVs? You're lucky we still in the era where they still sell ICE
@@bradwhite5884 there isn't enough room beneath the supra for the MR2, celica, gr86 and this s-fr.(unfortunately) edit. plus the gr yaris and gr corolla
@@eugenux The S-FR and the MR2 would be below the GR86 as they are small compact sports cars, the Celica could be above the Supra as a higher version of the Supra, so there
The Solstice/Sky suffered from GM parts bin cost cutting. It felt like they made the car larger than originally intended to make room for Malibu parts. And from marketing pushing the Solstice despite the Sky being better looking and it being easier to get a Sky with the upgraded engine.
@876yuugt You don't need the ultimate performance for every little bit of the car. Plus, if you get a convertible like the TVR 280i, it's meant about cruising and listening to your engine roar. Not the 1% of performance. Plus cars designed originally to be a convertible (Ex Miata) have pretty decent chassis, plus with newer cars, going convertible doesn't sacrifice as much rigidity as older cars when comparing convertible to hard roof
Toyota did the landcruiser in an 80s design and it sold really well. I'd love to see them come out with 80s and 90s design cars. Light weight and boosted
Nice Future for Petrolheads. Nice Cars for Us. I love the Starlet and the S-FR. Both are awesome. I like them. Well done Toyota you are working for the Petrolheads.Yes.
150Hp in a light car with decent torque is all most of the world needs. Anything 'sporty' is seen as a luxury car in many places. A GT86 is rare where I am due to the price , insurance and "displacement tax for anything over (usually 2.0litres)" .If the power goes up on this, it will only be widely sold in East Asia, North America and the parts of Europe that isn't EV crazy. I hope it is around 150hp. Modify it yourself after the fact. The more you ask of a manufacturer, the higher the initial price and fewer people globally who would have a chance to own one..even second hand.
Yeah, why did most of the world Complain about this with the GT86 when it first came out? 200hp and barely 1200kg with an out of the box almost perfect handling character and an infinity of modding potential. The torque dip was on the factory tune for good fuel economy on the highway. It was the companies attempt of giving an all-round package. Some people are so fucking stupid.
My 91 Lotus has a 1.6 turbo and weighs in at around 2300 lbs with and with 165 HP it can 0 - 60 in about 5.5 seconds, so this car is probably fine at 150 HP if they can keep the weight down to 2100 lbs. I wouldn't be surprised if they bumped up the HP closer to 200 for North America though just for the target market.
This is going to be strange 🤨 the GR86 is honestly already the miata competitor starting at 29k almost identical to the starting price of the Miata. So this new baby coupe has to be around 24k? Which is never going to happen lol
@@INITIALD.MFGHOST that cannot be as the MR2 and celica are rumoured to have the gr yaris engine; they cannot put the same engine in 5 cars(gry, gr corolla, mr2, celica and gr86). What I believe actually will happen is that this s-fr is the gr86 replacement; smaller in size to make room for the larger but, still beneath supra, MR2. I don't know where they will put celica in this lineup but yeah, it is what it is. edit. with this s-fr added to the current and future lineup, it will add up to 6 cars, all within almost the same space..and that's not possible, unfortunately.
@@eugenux six sports cars is a lot to have in today’s market. Then again these are all just rumors so not all of them will make it to production. But this is a good problem to have if you’re a car enthusiast.
@@INITIALD.MFGHOST absolutely!, what I do believe is that toyota will have a 3 car sports car lineup(replacement of the current '86, mr2 and supra or supra replacement) + some sorts of hot hatchbacks arrangements(corolla and the (wrc)yaris).
people who don't know what a roadster is: "omg an MX-5 cOmPeTiToR" everyone other roadster manufacturer: "okay we'll play along, show us your roadster" Toyota: (top doesn't move at all)
Its dimensions would really compete with the Miata in the USA. I doubt that it could be sold here, but in other market segments where small cars are a regular; we can see that it will compete with the miata if both are sold there. Like how the S660 is a competitor to the Miata in JDM. Especially if you consider the suggested market price for this aligns with the Miata.
as someone who grew up a nissan fanboy toyota has been leading the pack by far i love my 2019 86 its my daily rn im hoping i can pick up a cheap frs as a project or a lx450/70 as a new daily, i got a good deal on my 86 with super low mileage so i want to keep it forever
1:42 Toyota already sells the Starlet in South Africa (also the Glanza in India). It's a rebadged Suzuki Baleno with a number of small displacement petrol and diesel engines and a 5 speed manual/4 speedautomatic transmission. BTW, the Yaris still exists outside North America, so I don't know why Toyota wants to make another subcompact hatchback for homologation.
especially since a starlet rally4 would be what..a rebodied gr yaris?, what the future gr4 celica would be...a coupe rebodied gr yaris? it is not clear to me what's going to happen with enthusiast cars by Toyota but, I am glad someone is still building cars for enthusiasts.
I know the S-FR is cool and all, but dang that Starlet looks good! Plus a potential Rally4 version of it as well? I can see that car as basically the FF/FWD version of the GR Yaris.
@@eugenux A Rally4 is strictly 2WD with most of them using FWD configuration. Rally3 upwards is the one where you started seeing 4WD being used The reason the GR Yaris look the way it is now is because the rear end of the regular European Yaris chassis couldn't fit the new AWD system, hence Toyota built a Frankenstein of a Yaris chassis upfront & a Corolla chassis in the back.
I think it was the concept they did with Gordon Murray; unfortunately, Yamaha's board changed and they didn't want to take the risk, although, the project was ready for production.
The S-FR, even with less than 200hp would be fine, as it will have good torque from low rpm being turbocharged. Just keep it under 2500 lbs, include 6spd manual and price it under the MX5.
Wait.. A new car coming out that's not an electric SUV? I mean, a 1.3turbo doesn't exactly get me out of bed but the very fact that it's not another euro shape electric SUV is something to be grateful for!
I love my ND2, but it's hard to deny how interesting a car 200lbs lighter sounds to me, especially with enough torque down low to play with traction at slower speeds. Sounds fun! If it did come out, it could get me into a new car, especially if it feels somewhat analog compared to other cars on the market like the ND does.
downside to turbo though is lag and short redline. I had a Civic Si that had a 1.5 T w/ manual and hated it. It took a second for the turbo to kick in, then it had an awesome 3k rpm of grunt, but quickly ran out of steam at 5,500 rpm. shift, lag, 3k rpm power, cutoff, shift. ND2 driving experience is way better, the car pulls for 5k rpm.
150PS for a car that small is reasonable and makes sense imo. The goal is to outperform and take sales from the Miata/MX-5/Roadster without outperforming or pulling sales away from the GR86, GR Supra, GR Yaris, or GR Corolla
@@markzimmer1486 boxters/caymans go electric only..and some(most?!) don't emphasise a drop top 2 seater as an EV...or maybe they do, idk; the fact that hot hatchbacks are dying away due to pricing and ppl still want fun cars for, evening drives, weekend drives, weekend getaways, driving holidays and so on, all of these together could be a factor for this segment rejuvenation; also, it seems to be a little comeback within the market for sports car driving, the experience of it, how driving a sports car makes you feel, the engagement, the excitement..it is something else when comparing it with hot hatchbacks. I personally welcome it!
Isn't the GR-86 already kinda a Miata fighter? I get it's not really a convertible. But it's already a small, driver focused car. I'm not sure I'd be interested in anything much smaller.
This is why I always been a Toyota fan even when certain people and haters in the car industry call Toyota the most boring car company. I always knew that wasn’t true now Toyota is finally taking the throne.
This was genuinely a car I was excited for as soon as I first tried it on Gran Turismo. 1500cc of smooth NA power & a simple rounded uglyness that was somehow endearingly cute Now it's doing the same wannabe trendy thing of most brands unnecessarily adding lines & edges to what should've stayed simple clean more timeless curves. That and non-linear turbo power, and it's not even reasonably high power considering the inclusion of a real GR derived motor So it saddens me the one throwback classic simple lightweight car I was looking forward to might get have to get passed on, only redeeming news is the Starlet from left field just might tickle my fancy, we'll have to wait & see what it really boils down to come 2016 or so, but by then I might be in the market for something more grown up, it's been near a decade since first appearance, & every boy-racer has to grow up some day, a GR4 Corolla Rally Wagon perhaps the future holds
for the "mx5 formula" that you claim hasnt been replicated, the mx5 isnt a new concept, it was literally based off of the lotus elan, which in turn was a part of the masisvely successful "small british sportscar/roadster" industry, which then spawned other car companies to try to join in. Honda did the same thing with the S2000 being based on the Caterham/Lotus 7. it will be good for competition as you say though, the last 20 years has really only seen companies either make cheap cars in this sector and struggle to make them en masse, or make more expensive ones and just be small expensive track toys or summer cars (think what lotus has been doing, the jaguar F type, etc). The last one was probably the mid engined MR2 which was killed off because toyota was in their "boring" phase of the 2000s and early 2010s, followed by their slow reintroduction in to the scene with the 86/brz project? im also not counting the new Fiat 124 because while somewhat successful, that was just an ND mx5 with a better engine. We can hope that if suzuki is making a roadster, they finally put the Hayabusa engine in a sports car... Maybe toyota can do the same with a yamaha engine, or just give it the full fat 1.6 inline 3 from the gr yaris.
@@eugenux I hope its a proper Toyota engine. Supra being a BMW Z4 and GR 86 being a flawed downgrade of a Porsche engine was such a big turn off for those cars having a Toyota badge, which is why it stopped me from buying either of them. I get they wanted to cut cost but did they have to be with those car brands? They could've just went with their already existing engines and just work with that.
@@EnhancedTrashBin I get you but please take not of how this type of cars manage to get into production. They need to share the platform and development costs; GR86 isn't available in my country and, while the BRZ has been for approximately 3 months at the end of last year, it is now unavailable again and, even when it was, the cost was ~45k USD, which is roughly 10k extra of what you pay in the states; I would have brought one nonetheless if I had the money and now I save every month, hopefully having enough to get a nearly new(or new) gr version next year from Germany; for me, it is everything I want in a driver's car: light, n/a, coupe, manual, rwd. Miata is/was to wobbly to consider it and until the gr86/brz gen 2, there wasn't really an alternative. Now it is, at least imo.
Suzuki Cappuccino is awesome, i have had skylines, vr4 twin turbo v6 Mitsubishis, vl turbos, and many more but the Suzuki Cappuccino is the mlst enjoyable car i have ever owned.
Kirk, I just found your channel the other day. I LOVED your review of the new Miata. I have a 23 Mercedes C300 cabriolet that I love, however I am now thinking of ADDING a Miata to my fleet. You really made the video fun, and have to admit that the car got me a bit wet... Ops, I should edit that... hahaha. Love the humor.
i'm not holding my breath for this one to come to the US, if they make it. I'd love to see it & hope that it has good reliability if it does I'd also like to see companies do a RWD compact car with the same thinking as the Hilux Champ... low cost & basic function above all else, only the basics are met.... only what you need, nothing you don't... having the emphasis on end user modification in any/every direction.
The Miata has a 1.5L 130PS version in Japan, so I think this 1.3T 150PS competes with that. If they do introduce this to the international market it could of course get a different tune. But I don't think this will reach 240PS. This engine is supposed to be made as cheaply as possible and run on regular gas, so it won't quite reach the 187.5hp/L of the G16 which has a lot of expensive components to survive in rally conditions and only runs on 93. I think BestCar got the projected power from the more mundane turbocharged engines like the T24 or V35 (278hp/2.4L*1.3L=150hp).
I’m not sold on the styling if that’s accurate. To be honest, I’m hoping for an MR2. I don’t know how popular this SRF thing would be compared to the Miata to be honest.
3:56 if you’ve seen how the inside of the gr corrolla engine looks, the cylinder walls are insanely thick. Not 100% but I think destroking it would make more sense for a faster/higher revving engine.
6:11 if the cappuccino returns i'll shed a single tear out of happiness. additionally, the reason for the low horsepower is probably a way to lower cost. Suzuki's HA36S Alto Works model was a turbo 0.66L I3 with a really small turbo. they don't have a performance Alto model this generation but want to introduce it and perhaps base it on a similar chassis to the rumored new Starlet (both hatchbacks). Additionally, their I3 turbo technology is already proved to worked really well so the companies will probably adapt them to their cars with not much change
daaaamn broo 1.3L turbo seems like a dream for economy and sporty feel! 6:38 also for us sensible persons, 22.5kgm is 220Nm (newton meters of force) so 148hp/220Nm actually puts it very close to my Colt Czt 2006(150hp/210Nm) and my dream car Swift Sport 2023(140hp/235Nm) definitely gonna be a fun competitor!
People always say that the solstice/sky didn’t last long, as if the issue is with the cars and not the fact the the cars only died once GM killed Pontiac/Saturn.
My college had one when I studied automotive repair. It was just awful. It is a lot bigger and much dowdier than a Miata. Sitting in it was terrible. No comparison. (Not that it isn't fixable, but you shouldn't have to change the seats, shifter, steering wheel and who knows what else just to be able to stand being in a car. But that's a GM thing, they only make 'big' cars, so even the small cars are just the big car parts smooshed into a slightly smaller package)
The Miata is a perfect reflection of the values of Mazda. A Toyota "Miata-fighter" just won't/can't express the same spirit, as proven by the current GR86/BRZ. It'll come close, it'll be fun, but lack in that elusive quality that makes Mazda vehicles different from all their Asian competition.
I can't see Toyota giving this car 200hp in any market they sell the 86. It would be quicker/faster than the 86 at that power level and Toyota would never do that. Maybe 165-175hp TOPS in any market, but highly doubtful.
The thing to take into account is that the 86 original only had 200 hp, and the GR version has 228 hp. Since it's suppose to be the baby car and will be lighter than the 86, it's going to need to have less power to not be faster than their medium car and keep the line up in check.
I would want to buy this thing and put a Toyota 1 UZ V8 in it. Keep the engine behind the front wheels can you imagine the possibilities I’m already thinking of doing the same in a Miata but this would keep it all in the family.
I thought the MR2 was what Toyota was bringing back to the US Kirk. Saw it at the review of that Japan auto show you did. Turbo is also disappointing as the throttle response is not the same as a Naturally Aspirated engine. They run hotter &maintenance is critical to keeping them in good running shape. Fluids break down faster & most turbos don't last as long as NA engines.
150hp is most likely, Japan are running new Emission regulations on 2027. Also 200hp marks are for 86, so I would say for normal version 150hp. And 170hp something for the GR version
Well, Toyota already has a similar sports car. The Toyota Copen GR Sport. That's a 660cc kei car. That would be cool to introduce something a tad larger
MX5 doesn't work for most people above 5'10" Toyota would have a ready market if they are able to make something close to the MX5's size and weight with a larger cabin. However if its a 2+2, its going to be DoA. That's just a smaller GR86 and will be even more cramped than the Miata. Also if its correct that its using the 1.3L turbo, that's a huge miss. One of the biggest reasons for the Mazda's success is the high-revving NA motor. Wringing it all the way to redline to get the power is the entire point of a car like this. A tiny turbo that will redline at 6000 rpm and hit peak power at 2500 RPM is not it.
@BrianEugeneLee-xq2hy you should try to grow up and don't have your ego hurt by ppl calling a car in a certain way; and you'd better apply that to everything in life. cheers.
From a consumer perspective, Mazda collaborating on the SF-R and bargaining for Toyota's collab on a midsize sports car (maybe gen 3 GT86 platform, or Supra, or maybe bring back the Celica, or call it something new) with Mazda Skyactiv turbo engine options for the Mazda versions of this made up car. I would like something that weighs under 3000 lbs, has 300+ HP, costs around Mustang GT money ($42k MSRP), and has Mazda styling. I don't care if the interior is basic, if: it's laid out correctly, the controls feel good, and is an enjoyable cohesive package.
