TR&CI 44: Myriad Deep Dive (Layers, Replacement Effects, Delayed Triggered Abilities, & Much More) 

Sure thing, happy to help out.

Of course, glad to help. I thought at first the episode would be quicker, but then it kept becoming more and more clear as to how many things Myriad does get weird with, and I'm sure I've overlooked a few interactions.

Sure thing, glad to help.

In general, the rules say when the keywords are redundant (most are static) If it is a trigger it will say triggers separately Or if is an alternative cost, it is extra too Like for example if a Creature gets multiple of Blitz, you get only 1 die trigger

I could do one to provide some of the more relevant ones that do stack (non-redundant). There's a lot of abilities to cover.

That's one or two extra combats...

@@ThisIsACommanderChannel The way it works is you put myriad and haste on port razer. It swings at player 1, creating two copies. Assuming each hits, that’s 3 extra combats. Then you apply the beginning of combat myriad trigger to port razer. Then it has two swing at a new player, with 4 instances of myriad, which creates 8 extra port razers. Then 9 combats, 13 instances of myriad, then 27 port razers. And now you have 27 extra myriad applications for whatever else, assuming you haven’t killed everyone yet.

@@jacobgordon433 Yeah, Port Razer is for sure one of the more powerful (high ceiling) extra combat type creatures.

Oh my god! That is crazy! Ty

That's a lot of tokens, oh my! I love cards like Nanogene Conversion, I always want to fit them into my decks for some wild plays.

Mostly correct (except for the part about sacrificing Kardur due to the Legend rule, technically not sacrificed but just simply sent to the Graveyard). You will get two new 'super Goad' trigers, which are sadly redundant and getting one of that trigger isn't much different than getting a hundred, unless someone really wanted to Stifle the effect and in which case they would need to Stifle twice. And then yes, each one will see the other dying, but you will end up having them lose more life and you gaining more life. There will be three total Kardurs that see a total of two attacking creatures dying, so you will end up gaining 6 life and each opponent will end up losing 6 life.

Do you remember the article name? Fixing misinformation is a big thing, it's one thing to just not know if a ruling but when someone is told a rule is one thing then that can more damaging to their games. They will maybe go out of their way to build a deck a certain way, spending a lot of time and money getting cards for that deck only to then find out that was all a waste.

I’m looking for it. Just spent 3 hours looking at all the instants that targeted a player. The internet agrees with you.

@@williamhutchinson8881 Dang, that's a lot of time searching. You're diving deep through Scryfall.

It is wild. Played league til 4am. Looked at magic cards til 7. I looked at every 900+ cards that said a target creature gets +X+X until end of turn. And I can’t read. Thankfully I wasn’t just looking up the wrong mechanic. I got it from draftism saying “A Myriad copy has all the characteristics of the original creature, including “until end of turn” abilities. But any counters, auras, or equipment the creature may have aren’t copied, only the intrinsic properties of the myriad creature.”… I get now that it means, the token cat activate abilities, but I misinterpreted it at first.

@@williamhutchinson8881 Ah, that's all good. We all slip up and miss something. Heck, that's what a bunch of these videos are covering, how just one or two words on a card can make a massive difference and make a card work totally different than another card that looks like it's the same effect.

Solid question. Myriad is actually two triggered abilities. The initial one that triggers when the creature attacks, and then for any amount of tokens that the Myriad ability does create it sets up a delayed triggered ability that happens "at end of combat". So, because they're triggered abilities, they each go onto the Stack which means that each one resolves one at a time. This means that if four 1/1s attacked a player and there were two other opponents, each Spirit created two new tokens that would be exiled at end of combat, for a total of eight individual triggers for Ranar. Also, bonus fact about Ranar that I noticed when reading his ability, it says "whenever... a spell or ability you control exiles one or more permanents from the battlefield" but it doesn't specify that that must be a permanent you control or own. So when you Swords to Plowshares or Path of Exile an opponent's creature, it will trigger Ranar. That's cool.

They never *attacked* per se, they essentially skipped that to instantly being *attacking*, which boast doesn't check for. Most things like that care about the creature being declared an attacker during the declare attackers phase.

Yeah, this is one of the more confusing things in Magic where the wording is subtle yet crucial. You can find a detailed breakdown I did for this in EP 11, and if you want to check out the rules for yourself this sort of stuff is covered in CR 508.3 & 508.4. But like Cnvvj said, they are "attacking" but they have not "attacked" and the game specifically requires that they "attacked" for these sorts of abilities to work.

The Brudiclad trigger happens before you attack and then Myriad will trigger after you have attacked with the create that has it. So, the Brudiclad will make a Myr token and then you will make all your other tokens will become a copy of that one that you picked. This means that if you're wanting to turn all of your tokens into a copy of the Cybermen Squadron you would need to have a token version of the Squadron at the start of your combat. If you can pull that off, then yes, this would be quite an explosive thing. If you had 9 tokens before combat and one of them is a Squadron, then you'd make a Myr and turn all 10 of the tokens into Squadrons, so that means that all of your nonlegendary artifact creatures, includes your 10 Squadrons, would all have 10 different instances of Myriad, it stacks. So once you attack with those 10, each one will create two more assuming you're in a 4-player game, so you'd have 30 5/5 creatures out attacking, 10 at each opponent.

Yup, that +2/+2 from Norn is always applying as a Static Effect, any new creatures that exist on the BF after the Norn has hit the BF will also have it applying to them. If the Norn were to leave the BF, then the effect would instantly stop applying to all of the creatures on the BF, it wouldn't linger around until the end of the turn.

For Impact Tremors, yes, it will see each of the token Creatures ETB and trigger for each one. For sacrificing them to the Bombardment, yes, you would be able to do that before you lose the tokens normally, but one thing to note on this is if you're getting the Myriad triggers from a Legendary Creature then you would not be able to sac them to the Bombardment. The "Legend Rule" would kick in as an SBA and before you would get Priority to activate the Bombardment you would have to pick one of the Legendary Creatures to stick around and then send the rest to your GY, and that again would happen so "fast" that you wouldn't be able to sac them yet.

For sure, it even surprised me a lot for how much I was able to come up with for Myriad. And yeah, that's a really good question. I've added it to the list of things to cover. I've got two other scripts I'm working on right now, but I've bumped it to the top of the list. Should be the next video to release.

@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Awesome! Thank you very much!

@@kyleedmunds5329 Sure thing.

@@ThisIsACommanderChannel No need to single me out if you do the episode on it. Just the info is good.

If you activate the Dragon Throne of Tarkir after the Myriad tokens have been created, then yes, they will get the +X/+X. If you activate it to buff the creature with Myriad and then attack with that creature, then no, the tokens created via Myriad would not see that buff made to that creature. The Copy Layer happens earlier than the Power/Toughness Layer, so they wouldn't see any buff to P/T.

@@Nalzir You would be correct in that you do not make a token copy that would be attacking them. When a player loses they are removed from the game entirely. Cards that would normally care about them no longer 'see' them.

Like if a creature with Infect printed on the card attacks with Myriad? Then yes, the tokens created from Myriad would have Infect as well.

Yeah, it's not something that would come up often in games. The example I gave in the video was the most common situation that I would think that would happen, but if an opponent cast something like Gather Specimens then you may not want them to get creatures via that kind of effect.

@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Something that might come up more often is if you don't want a token attacking into a lifelinker

@@Rukalin Ah, very true. Sometimes your opponent just ends up healthier than had you not attacked them.

They do interact. The Isshin would cause each instance of Myriad to trigger an additional time. So, one creature with Myriad would attack, and you'd get 2 token copies attacking Opponent A and 2 token copies attacking Opponent B. If the tokens have attack triggers, they don't get additional or any triggers as they're entering already attacking.

Referring to the Legend Rule? If so, then yes that will occur, but an important note is that they are not technically sacrificed. They are simply going to the GY. Cards like Korvold, Fae-Cursed King or Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest would not trigger from the Legend Rule happening.

Are you asking if you can return one of the Myriad tokens as a payment for a Ninjutsu activation?

Ummm... what?