Nice video… the only potential negative is having so much slack whilst clipping the cloves. If you did one at a time, the length of fall risk is reduced
I was always not to clip into the shelf without something in the masterpoint. If the overhand rolls off the end of that slippery dyneema the carabiner won't be attached to anything.
Hi there Jamar - thanks for watching and commenting. Appreciate it. Yep, your correct. If we managed to generate a really massive force the overhand knot might 'undress' and another carabiner might help in that scenario. Certainly no problem with having one there, in the masterpoint. If the masterpoint loop is really tight that would be more likely, I've never seen or heard of this happening in real life application though. Have you? I'd be interested to hear about it. Thanks. Sam
thanks for watching @michaeldemasi1984 - it's certainly not the easiest system to escape from you're right. But, of course, there are ways it can be done.
You learn tool kits to escape the system… might take about three or four minutes to do so.. also, it’s easy to block lead, ghe follower just cloves in the same way but underneath
No problem either way. I think here I was keen to clearly show the idea of "creating two short slings" by tying that knot. This seems to help people with the understanding/questioning of WHY, why is that knot there? To make each piece independent.
Nice one dude, thanks for the simple instruction. I'm compiling a little list of videos to send to a mate who has basic gear but no real experience with trad gear and routes (mostly indoor) and your videos are featured heavily. I'm a big fan of the inline method, so the 2 pieces on the right could become effectively one leg of a conventional masterpoint sling belay stacked, then the other one is the other leg of the sling belay. That would then make one single point to clip the rope, out of reach. I do like this method though and might try it. Never really thought of using a sling to create two isolated loops apart from when connecting 2 pieces to clip the shelf but no masterpoint. I think this is the confusing bit, and maybe needs a video of it's own to clarify when, and how to use which method. Also this place looks brilliant, is it Lion Rock? I have been to Union Rock over the water for a day with Go Vertical.
@Sam Farnsworth yeah I'd either do a long sling belay to a single 'out of reach' point or do each with the rope; needs a lot of spare though if they're not close and obviously out of reach single pieces need to be done separately from the harness and back. If using a sling it's often too short to make a 'W' to a masterpoint so I'd isolate a loop with an overhand for the first piece, then the overhand knot becomes the stop for the second. The other leg is to the 3rd piece and creates a V, that's what I meant by in-line. You can even do 3 in line with a 120 but there's not a lot of directional stability. It is often possible to use a 60 (alpine draw) to get 2 in line then use that as a single point rather like you did. The method shown is a bit of a combination, efficient with rope and gear. Your way is basically a 2 piece sling belay and clipped into the shelf rather than the masterpoint, one I'd never even considered. So many ways to do things, every day is a school day! All these things are easy to show but tough to describe. I did a 3 piece at Union Rock then had to run 60ft of rope out to get back to the edge! Would have used up all of my rope doing each piece separately.
Great question James. It depends on if I'm going to be able to reach those krabs to adjust the clove-hitches once in the final belay position. Just to avoid getting up and down to ensure all pieces are taking weight. If they ARE in reach then clove hitches on the piece krab can work fine. Clove hitches on the piece krab also has the advantage of keeping your harness/ waist area nice and 'clean' - easy to see whats going on.
A lot of the same principles apply yes, but it's unusual to belay in 'guide mode' from an indirect belay like this. Guide mode would more commonly be used in a belay that comes to a central high point, separate from the belayers harness.
