It sounds like the argument being used here is that you are “murdering” someone if you don’t use their preferred pronouns…Thus breaking the third commandment? This is a ridiculous argument. We should love our neighbor, but loving someone is not lying to them. You can be respectful, but we also need to follow our conscience. Sometimes you have to stand behind your convictions.
This does not work with someone who has mental/emotional struggles with gender or whatever it is. Even in psych hospitals you don’t try to change their thinking. You meet them where they are at. I believe that is what God does. Have some empathy. When someone literally hates the body they are in, have some compassion. You argue against it because of the truth but you also don’t get it because it isn’t your problem.
I'm sorry, but this woman has manipulated herself so much that she's going down the Matthew Vines route and justifying her decisions to the point of being missional to a thought process that is both anti-Biblical and harmful to anyone who both struggles with it or is not grounded Biblically to know what the Biblical view of man and womanhood is. Sadly, she has manipulated herself so much that if anyone disagrees with her, may guilt come upon him/her. I pray this woman will see the true love of our Triune God and heal based on Biblical truths and not on feelings that point back to Genesis- "Did God really say?" I also pray that Mr. Sprinkle will do the same as this, according to the apostle Paul, is a false gospel. Gal.1:6-10; Eph 4:20-24.😢😢
Although I respect what is being said, I can't abide by it. The "emotional blackmail" we are expected to just agree too is ludicrous. The fact that these individuals would be "triggered" if they are not addressed correctly only shows that they are/were fragile prior to their delusional identification, study and research show that. My heart breaks for these individuals and the pain/suffering they endure in their own skin.
"Emotional blackmail"! YES! That is what I've been saying for years about the gay community too! They try to "guilt" you into doing what they want! I don't mean to sound, or be insensitive. But lying to people in the name of "love" is not Biblical! Or loving! JESUS never did that! He didn't pretend the woman at the well wasn't an adulterer and call her by her live in boyfriends last name! Yes HE met her where she was, but when HE got done talking with her, she wasn't the same woman! I bet she went home and kicked that joker out! 😂 Obviously I'm being a little humorous with that statement, but you get my point. lol. We shouldn't be manipulated into conforming. If you are "triggered" by someone calling you what GOD made you, and you think about committing suicide, THAT'S NOT NORMAL! That's where you need counseling! In that area. This is so crazy to me. Smh.. So much more can be said, but requires too much typing! LOL .. GOD bless ya'll!
So does a TRUE disciple of Christ elect to alter pronouns or identify outside of how God created them? I understand the struggle/journey. But the act of sanctification is us conforming to the image of Christ as we walk out our salvation. We don’t bless and affirm sinful behaviour or things that are contrary to scripture. Words matter. Scripture (the Word) says we were created male and female ergo he/she. The enemy always try’s to subvert Gods word. The church is NOT society. we are called out of the world.
Great conversation. Lesli makes a compelling argument for using their preferred pronouns but I cannot get myself fully there. First when I heard the suicide rate of trans were 42% I thought it was for all trans. I later found out it is specific to trans post surgery. Meaning surgery did not help trans with their dysphoria. There is no study about using pronouns to help with dysphoria. I do not believe it makes a difference in suicidality. They are still at risk. I can not accept that if I don’t use their pronoun and they commit suicide, somehow I have aided in their murder. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. The issue is deeper than whether someone called you by the wrong pronoun. To me, it also feels manipulative to use suicidality to get others to say what you would like them to say. I do hear both sides and I have thought about this quite a bit. I have come down to that I will make my best efforts to not use pronouns if possible but if I slip it would be the biological pronoun.
Watch Preston’s recent video A Transman’s Perspective on Recent Transgender Issues … Scott Ugent does not agree with using children/adolescents preferred pronouns.
Come on man. She is literally claiming you are committing murder if you do not use preferred pronouns... That is madness. If you tell someone who is Trans that you believe they are delusional and living in sin then they commit suicide. You have not in any way committed murder. That person was so fragile that being confronted with their own sin caused them to murder themselves. If a paharasee committed suicide after Jesus confronted them does that make him a murderer? You need to draw these assertions to their logical conclusions.
The way Lesli phrased that was not ideal, I believe what was trying to be said was that words have power, and though you should go to people in truth, what is truth without love? So you should be free to do and say what you want but that doesn't mean your free from the consequences of your words.
What if it really messes up a person having to address a person contrary to that person's obvious gender? Does only one person matter here? Anyways things are so crazy now not sure there are answers anymore.
Yeah but if people are compassionate they could prevent that from happening and the total, forever loss of a soul that could have been won. You can be compassionate and then ask God to forgive you in private.
“God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.”
These are hard things to talk about and yet such prevalent issues in our society. I appreciate this conversation being had and I pray there be many more as we seek to win people to Christ. Something it seemed was entirely missing from this conversation is a commitment to the truth of God's Word and how we can address these issues by the principles in His Word. Jesus spoke the truth to the woman at the well about her life. Jesus never shyed away from calling people to repentance from whatever sin-led lifestyle they were living. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. -Ephesians 4:15
It would behoove the trans world to understand non trans people's perspectives as well. I don't see this discussed, even in passing. And I apologize if she did in this video and I didn't hear it. When I hear the push for normalizing language, what comes to mind is how disrespectful the lgbtq community treated Jordan Peterson. He deserved none of the vitriol hurled upon him when he was told to change his language and he would not acquiesce. His stance is completely valid. If we change language then there goes out the door thousands of years of how psychologist (and the related fields like humanities, philosophy, etc) see and record the world. Back in the day there were Judeo-Christian underpinnings of Western civilization. Are we now going to throw that all away for a tiny percentage of people with dysphoria?! Certainly they must understand you don't just toss aside ancient wisdom and start over again. I sympathize with this community, have no problem loving them to the extent of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I once was dysphoric as mentioned in another one of my posts here. My ex husband came out as trans, and our family now lives in the wake of him pursuing his lifestyle of choice (meaning he left me and the kids to go to Vegas, I'll leave it there.) My love for Jesus though keeps me saying every day "Thy will be done, not mine." Isn't this what carrying our cross means? Do we not die to self? Do we not count the cost? I think, hope, and pray she continues on the journey as I'm pretty sure our Lord would not want her to camp out where she is now. May He continue to draw her closer.
@17:47-18:03 "....Yes, we need to love people, but we also need to be truth tellers, so using pronouns that don't match their biological sex is basically lying to them". This is truth spoken right there. Love people but don't lie to them.
So just to be clear, as a biological cisgender male I don't find myself contemplating self-harm whatsoever if someone calls me 'she/her'. I might find it annoying but I'm not emotionally triggered by it, so it's not that I'm unwilling to relate but that if people saying a certain word or phrase is so hard to hear for someone then I'd say that really is in alignment with the idea of this stuff being more like a mental health concern than a genuine reality based in healthy perception. If the inward identity is so powerful that it must be lived out then how is it simultaneously so fragile as to be threatened by language of others? I am genuinely concerned that the heart of this issue is a culture of narcissism. I'm happy to be wrong about that but it honestly seems like that.
I understand where your coming from but think about it this way, if you knew you were a man, truly knew, and someone you loved were to call you a woman every day, you had a completely female body, every photograph of you as a child was clearly female, but you knew that you were a man, and i mean truly knew, but your body every day told you otherwise, you'd think it'd be impossible to live with this body, to live as a woman when you knew you were a man. You'd turn to negative coping mechanisms, isolate yourself cause you feel embarrassed being seen as a woman, maybe even feel like life is pointless and try to take your life. That's what gender dysphoria is like. It is more than a slip-up, like calling someone Josh when their name is Kyle. It is a deep emotional condition that has ties to their physical body. It doesn't hurt you because, I'd assume your comfortable in your masculinity and if so, that's wonderful. But for a transgender person/person with gender dysphoria, it has a lot more impact than that.
I am trans MTF and when someone sees me at first they see a female but the quickly realize that I am male but instinctively know that they should call me by she/her and ma'am. I fell fortunate
I am not completely through the video and maybe this is discussed later. It sounds to me she is a misogynist. I'm curious to know her relationship with her mom. I'm asking because at one time I was like how she described. I couldn't stand seeing myself in a mirror, wanted to cut my hair off, loved wearing guys clothes, related to men, hated being a girl. Looking back, I was dysphoric, although this term wasn't around in the 70s. I loved God and along the way of Him healing me I was led to question where this self loathing came from. I concluded I hated myself because I hated my mom. Did my mom deserve this vitriol? Absolutely not. But what happened was this: my father beat her, in front of me and my brothers. (Yeah, it screwed with our heads for life; we are still getting over it.) A cascade of problems came from my dad's hateful abuse of her. Like alcoholism, then she lashed out at us and we became the abused. Yada yada. It broke my heart to realize I hated her and myself. I'm almost 60. By God's grace I love myself and remind myself to be loving toward my mom. I'm wondering if there is something in her past which causes what she is going through.
Great conversation. Preston mentions Blair White. I have learned so much from listening to her for almost a year now. Thank you, Preston & Lesli, for a great interview.
Yes, this woman was in a cycle of divorce and remarriage and even currently in adultery. Jesus engages her openly, just as we should with those who are adulterers, trans or otherwise, but calls her out of sin not deeper into it.
...the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching...
So, why exactly would God not be okay with someone, say, taking T, to help with dysphoria? We take all kinds of things to help with other things we feel and have because we are fallen humans, like clinical depression etc.?
I think that it is due to the purpose of T. T is to change your body, to make you look like another gender. Those changes aren't anti depressant side affects, they are the entire point of taking it. I take anti-depressants and anti- anxiety meds. They calm me down and restore me to someone who can function normalish. They don't attempt to change me. Unless you subscribe to a transman needing his body restored to the body he somehow was meant to have because him developing a female body was somehow his biology going wrong, then T is not restorative, it's a treatment designed to change, not restore.
Maybe anti depressants is a better solution for a trans. It is not that it is a medication like the rest it is more that it is the wrong medication. For example, if I take diabetic medication even though I am not a diabetic…it can be harmful. Also, there is a difference between hormone medication and psychiatric medication, one is to manage the other is to change. I hear once you take T you will need to take it for the rest of your life and it has irreversable damages.
@@paulajames6149 Testosterone can be the wrong medication for some people which is why it is a heavily controlled substance, to avoid someone making a mistake. But for some people, testosterone and estrogen treatments can be lifesaving, for many trans people, anti-depressants won't work to 'cure' their dysphoria, in fact, dysphoria is mostly incurable with the exception of possible a few people and not with much result. I'll use your example here, say someone is a diabetic, they need insulin to survive, that doesn't mean their less holy or worthy because they need to take an unnatural substance to survive. It means they are human and have been affected by the fall as we we have. So, while I can see where your coming from, I have to disagree. I'd be happy happy to hear your input though.
May I ask what you mean by "these people?" This conversation isn't meant to be a you v.s. them conversation, it's meant to introduce you to a point of view that you may not be familiar with. Remember, if you've met one transgender person, you've met only one transgender person.
I'm sorry to be overly blunt, but I have to call BS on the convo about trans murders. From my understanding, often these ppl are being killed because they are already engaged in risky criminal behavior, so it's not necessarily clear that they (or at least all of them) are even being killed BECAUSE they're trans. And EXCUSE ME, but I know of no Christian who is opposed to trans lifestyles, behavior and vocabulary who is OK with a trans person being murdered. And rather than your farfetched and emotionally manipulative solution to the problem ("start using them pronouns if you're REALLY against the murder of trans people"), perhaps increasing police budgets, keeping criminals behind bars for longer (or executing them of they're murderers and rapists), etc. would be a more helpful solution.
Okay I didn't watch the whole interview, but.... Clearly this is a person with serious mental illness. Not blaming her for that. But it is what it is. If you want to self harm because of the pronoun someone used, you have mental illness. I would say this even if the trans issue was not in play. There is also a big manipulation issue here too. Do this or I'll harm myself! Not sure how to respond to that.
The apostle Paul said that it's a shame for a man to have long hair or a woman to have short hair like this woman does. So, we're clearly told that we need to look feminine if we're a woman and masculine if we're a man. That's what God-inspired. So, I understand this woman suffers from that, but she needs to be in subjection to God's laws and grown her hair long. If she's not willing to do that, then she's not a follower of Christ. We have to learn to obey God's laws.
I have long hair and don't look feminine, hair isn't the defining factor. I am trying to change my clothes up a bit, but I look at the women's clothing and they do not look comfy, like low cut and shaped. On top of them looking uncomfortable, I have major body image problems from my eating disorder. I really don't know how to change it. Being uncomfortable in my clothing day in day out is a scary reality to start living, and I'm scared it will trigger dysphoria. Are women meant to be uncomfortable and mildly dysphoric all the time. I would really like some advice,
@@FronteirWolf I wear feminine clothes but I do not wear low cut tops. I try to dress very modestly. It can be difficult to find clothing that is not low cut but the tops and dresses I have that are low cut, I wear backward. I agree that comfort is important, so I try to find comfortable modest clothing like long skirts and t-shirts that are not v-neck.
@@FronteirWolf Are you asking for advice on finding feminine clothes that are comfortable? If so, hoodies and turtlenecks are always a good option. As well as high waisted jeans and sweatpants. If not, I'm sorry I misread that.
Femininity and masculinity are cultural, it all depends on the culture your in and the time your in. If it's socially acceptable for a woman to wear baggy pants and a baseball cap or have short hair, than you can. God means in the context of his time, it was unacceptable for women to have short hair. He's just telling women to act as women and men to act as men, in the historical context to which it applies.
