Trans Rights and Gender Identity with Kathleen Stock | Ep 19 

I'm always struck by Dr Stock's calm and reason in the face of this relentless onslaught. Long may she prosper.

Kathleen Stock and Helen Joyce have become my most inspirational thinkers.

Thank you Kathleen, you were the first person I saw publicly speak on this topic at a time where it seemed taboo to do so, and you spoke so much sense it became the key to me waking up to this insanity that is the trans ideology. I applaud your candor and courage

She's very decent and likeable. Very sad to hear how the mob went after her.

I love love love this courageous, intelligent woman. Long may her voice be heard loud and clear. Shame on those who have tried to silence her.

Kathleen Stock is my hero. She gave me the strength to speak up against gender ideology in the arts. I paid the price, but it was worth it. Truth matters.

Wonderful woman,sees clearly and speaks sense. Sussex ought to beg her forgiveness.

She is as clear as ever and as needed. I’m a 78 year old female/woman and this issue has been driving me crazy. Thank you Kathleen. ❤️❤️❤️❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦

Keep speaking up Kathleen Stock- your voice,alongside JK Rowling,Kellie Jay Keen,Helen Joyce among others. We need your voices to keep reality alive and preserve children’s lives and their health. I really like the way you refer to society as ‘so-called progressive’, when in all actuality it is regressive,perpetuating misogyny. Keep on speaking up ❤🙏❤️

Kathleen epitomises beautifully reasoned discourse, she’s a real role model.

Solidarity with Kathleen Stock and others fighting for women and reality.

If the - "solution to the problem" - is cutting off healthy body parts, ingesting toxic chemicals and spending a life of medicalization - perhaps we need to rethink just what - "the problem" - actually might be. Thank you Kathleen Stock for the courage you have shown speaking out for basic common sense in this matter.

Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce, Maya Forstatter, Kelly Jay Keen (Posie Parker), Dr Hilary Cass, JK Rowling ... Thank you for courage to stand against the aggression, the vitriol and the malice of power grabbers. 🎀🏆

I am a Finnish woman born in 1970's and I was never a girly girl - hated skirts and dresses - and had always lots of boys as my friends. In 1980's-1990's Finland that was not a thing.. Like the whole sex and gender was not a thing at all. My mom (born in 1940's) never wore make up, always had a short hair, mostly used pants and worked full time outside home and none of that was a thing. I think most of my friends had mothers like that. Now suddenly a man who wears a dress and likes to put make up on his face has become the norm for a "woman" and a woman who doesn't do that is then labled as "non-binary" or maybe even a "trans".. Like WTF has happened?? This poisonous idelogy has invaded Finland too - and just like anywhere else the univerisites and all the places where leftists have ruling positions it is the oppinion everyone should have. All though I have never been a very feminine girl/woman - and I definitely did not like how my body developed through my teenage years getting breasts and wider hips - I still have never ever thought I was not a girl or that I was a boy.. I just felt like a boyish girl. And that was totally fine then. I really do not understand who really benefits of this "new world" other than some fanatic activists and men who want to invade women's spaces.

You are appreciated Professor Stock.

A crying shame what Sussex did to this academic.

Wonderful interview with the intelligent, courageous and clear-thinking Kathleen Stock. Thank you for all your work in trying to bring truth and understanding to an area that has been hijacked, to the detriment of children, adolescents and women. Share with everyone you know!

Something I’ve noticed about the detractors of Kathleen and others like JKR, is that they seemingly deliberately misconstrue their words. Any comment that starts with ‘I feel like she’s REALLY saying…’ Is a typical as a example. They turn everything into a dogwhistle that doesn’t actually exist.

Such a clear, reasoned, rational speaker. And not a single person has ever landed a good point on her. Because she's right. Dr Stock is a wonderful and inspiring human being. Thank you both for this interview.

KS always worth listening to.

I'm all for Kathleen (and Helen) getting those knighthood. Superlative and clear-headed thinkers should never be out of style.

Kathleen Stock is a calm reasonable courageous intelligent critical thinker who sees straight through the current ‘trans trend’. Magdalen Berns, was equally courageous and intelligent who offered the fire of women’s resistance, together they ignited the voices of women across the globe. I have so much gratitude to them both. 👏👏👏👏👏

Thank you, Kathleen. It’s centering to listen to you speak clearly and calmly on this issue. I stumbled on a 10 minute clip that may be helpful to share with those who disbelieve that an intact male transwoman, repeatedly convicted of horrendous sexual violence, can be placed in a woman’s prison. It’s a video of the US Congress, interviewing a judicial nominee, posted by Forbes last month - you can find it on RU-vid by searching “all hell breaks in judiciary committee”. Please share it with Julie Bindel if you see fit. Thanks, Patty

As a psychologist who's done a couple of thousand comprehensive pych evals during my career, I will not have anything to do with an eval for someone who needs clearance to proceed with transitioning. A friend who is similarly highly qualified did one and found himself professionally attacked because he identified contraindications for proceeding with the transition. There is an industry of medical professionals and support people who want the appearance of good practices, but in fact, they just want a credentialed person to approve regardless of the suitability and best interests of the patient. Since this happened with one friend who conducted such an evaluation, I've asked a few other friends in the field if they'd accept that work. So far, no one wants to touch it for fear of the personal and professional repercussions if they found an examinee unsuitable to proceed.

It’s women like Kathleen who have inspired me to write my governor and Senator on this issue.

Wow! Never knew this inspirational woman was brought up in my birth town of Montrose. I am also classed as ‘English’ due to my Home Counties accent!

Very real and refreshing. Let's save our children from chemically castrating themselves. Well-done for your common sense and candid honesty.

I like this woman, and admire her so much !

That was terrific. Thank you both so much. Best thing I learned studying philosophy was that people can reason in all sorts of different ways and to all sorts of conclusions, with all sorts of justifications and we are richer when we make space for different ideas to be heard, and when we learn how to challenge and critique our reasonings and grow our understandings about the world, respectfully and without attacking each other. Kathleen you do this so well. I wish we taught philosophy and critical thinking to little kids in school. I didn't even really know what it was til I was in my 30s... Glad I found out!

Well worth a watch. Thanks Kathleen.

So grateful for those, like Kathleen, who have had the courage to speak sense. I’m afraid this situation will get much worse before it (hopefully) gets better. It will take more people speaking reality and challenging fantasy.

Lila Thomas tied Riley Gaines...but they gave the medal to Thomas for the optics. Thank you Kathleen for having the courage and disposition to fight these necessary fights.

Kathleen Stock is wonderful. Thanks for the interview 🙂

How about we don’t tell people, ‘You’re right to think you’re born in the wrong body, mutilate yourself with my blessing, and I’ll go along with the fiction that you’ve changed sex’? How about we say, ’You’re mistaken to think you’re born in the wrong body. Your body is you. You’re beautiful, good, and loveable just as you are. We’re glad that none of us can change sex, because we love you now as the whole person you are, body, mind, and spirit. You have a difficult condition called gender dysphoria, but people have recovered from this without self-harming and with our support so can you’?

Thank you, Kathleen! You're obviously a great lecturer, and students at U of Sussex are missing out.

What a wonderful conversation. Kathleen is so eloquent, clear, and precise and John interviewed and directed the discussion so marvelously well!

Great interview. I wear mens clothes now but I’ve never think I am a man, find them more comfortable. I always have been a Tom boy and you can do anything you want whatever sex you are as long as you don’t hurt anyone else. I was in the military for 12 yrs, had kids, rode motorcycles, bikes, do diy, make furniture. You don’t need to change sex for anything. I am now over 60 and loving my retirement. Wouldn’t change a thing but it’s scary to think, would I have been persuaded to go down this route and ruin my life.

I remember her being hounded out of her university by tbe trans cult. It was shocking to me because she hadn't said anything untrue. She was so measured yet they hounded her out. No debate remember Stonewall manyra. I just like her. She's great. ❤

Clear and concise language as always from Kathleen Stock. The refinement of accuracy of how we speak about this subject is of the utmost importance. Helen Joyce is also brilliant. I hear too many people being too fuzzy with their language, and this can play into the hands of those we need to defeat in this argument. Take stock 😎 and learn something from these two sharp shooters. This all needs to be eradicated asap, for the safety and sanity of the women and girls in our lives. Harm my daughter and it’s war. That’s what men are for right ? 😂

I'm STILL a bi-sexual tomboy, but at no time did I consider myself male. Social media (and parents) has completely ruined a generation.

Why has the money-grubbing opportunism of Stonewall not been called out for what it is. A charity’s main aim should be to obviate its raison detre not find devious ways to perpetuate itself.

Brilliant interview with the extremely brave & intelligent Kathleen Stock 👏 👏 👏

An incredible conversation between two philosophers who really know how to get to the heart of each and every issue regarding sex and gender identity. Thank you!

The trans debate should be seen through the perspective of narcissism. The only thing that matters is what I feel. If you see it through that perspective, the whole phenomenon of adults acting like toddlers and glueing themselves to the floor is not so strange. Narcissism is often caused by neglectful parenting, and therefore, a child's need for attention from a parent are not met. In Western society parenthood, especially amongst the professional classes, is often seen as secondary to establishing a good career. Could it be that the growth in trans identity is as a result of parents failing to give their children the proper love and attention when they were growing up?

I'm just flabbergasted as a 56 year old gay man at the idea of this occuring! I think back to 1977, when me and two other girls were playing Charlie's Angels on the playground... in today's world, you know damn good and well that some well meaning, virtue signaling teacher would try to tell me I was trans because I was pretending to be Kate Jackson on the playground!

I admire Kathleen immensely. But not just because of the content of what she says. Because of her commitment to truth and clarity, and to intellectual humility. Her commitment to the concept of rational discussion and calm debate, the thrashing out of ideas while respecting all participants, as a means for our society to move closer to truth and clarity about things. How a person with such a quietly spoken and shy sort of demeanour, especially one who is open and willing to discuss ideas and admit if she's wrong and adopt new ideas that make sense, has attracted such a such a large yet vapid protest movement spouting boisterous vitriol, is amazing. But I don't think it reflects badly on her at all. It's just the highschool bullies, who always were devoid of substance, all growed up now. And maybe a few sheep-like NPCs following them.

People change in many ways throughour their lives. Its about accepting who you are and getting help with negative thinking. A young person will not necessarily feel the same in 2 yrs time. Lifes experiences change us whether we like it or not. But to make physical changes that have massive impacts on our bodies, is not going to change the way we feel inside. Its all very mythical, like reading fairytales or scarey tales.....and trying to run away from something you never can. Embrace yourself or get help to learn how to. The mind is so adaptive and complex. Far easier to alter thoughts than to change sexes and then in a few years, regret doing it and having medical problems for the rest of your life. I can talk, I had a total hysterectomy at a young age due to it being painfully swollen with disease. Now i have major health problems that I never knew would happen. I'd never promote any hormonal supression, unless to kill cancers. Hormones keep the body working like a clock.

Dr Stock should be made a Dame for services to reality! Always intelligent, measured and clear in her views on this divisive issue.

Kathleen is so brave and the vast majority of women who believe in biology, thank her

Ms. Stock is a voice of penetrating humanity. Thank you Mr. Tomasi. Excellent conversation.

Will listen tonight .. I do feel the tide is turning .. enough is enough

She's right - REALITY MATTERS and we need to get over this nonsense because of its impact on women and children and safeguarding. Being female is not a costume and not a feeling ... grrrr

Well said Kathleen. I didn’t know you were so tall! Thanks for standing tall. (From a 1970s Sussex grad - it was all good fun then).

What is the deal with these MEN?!?! Why are you asking a woman who has received DEATH THREATS where she grew up and where her parents live????

Wow Kathleen Stock is so refreshing. And a very pleasant tone from he interviewer. I'll check out some more videos 😄

You aren't "born in a body", you ARE your body. Unless you are religious and believe in souls.

What rights do they want that everyone else already has. What they want is special treatment and privileges like an entitled brat. And not take punishment for their actions

Outstanding person, fine interview.

Woman: adult human female.

Without Dr Stock and others, brave enough to counter the gender ideology , we would be heading towards a dystopian reality. I appreciate the clarity, intellect, and courage exhibited by Dr Stock . It sickens me that it is possible in this modern age, for people to be hounded out of positions. It’s exactly like the Salem witch trials. People are burnt on the figurative stake, for having the audacity to voice an apparent truth.

As I comment in every Kathleen Stock interview, podcast, debate I listen to and/or watch, I have a huge, massive girl crush on her. ❤ Huge.

Kathleen's breathy, "wow" at the mention of Iris Murdoch's name immediately sent me to find out who that is. I now own her first novel and can't wait to get into it! Sometimes, technology is pretty fabulous.

47:35 Kathleen excellently articulates the difficult concept and hazard of making a (false) distinction between ‘real’ and not ‘real’ trans identity.

Incredible woman and great discussion

Kathleen is incredibly sensible. Thank you.

The “honourable” idea as presented here doesn’t make sense to me. Even if you could depend on people being honourable ( when it’s already been demonstrated that you can’t - otherwise we wouldn’t need anti- doping rules), you would need an endless number of categories for different people and different amounts of medical interventions etc. As KS says, it comes back to just say men and women, keep the anti- doping rules and offer an open category if there’s an interest in that.

Thanks for an interesting podcast. I always enjoy KS. cheers

What I find offesive about the new trans movement is how it flies in the face of the centuries and still ongoing struggles of women for full human rights and dignity; and how it dismisses the lives of those people who embody both sexes and are often given specific roles in their cultures

I love Kathleen.

"Material Girls" is a must-read for anyone wanting to understand the trans "debate". Her thinking is coherent, cogent, and compelling.

Kathleen is a breath of fresh air from the feminist world we live in. She does not blame everything on men so I’m not sure how to take her. Her belief the young girls are fleeing womanhood and it’s expectations is very insightful.

I love this lady she is talking so much sense and yet there are so many ignorant people that won’t listen and think about the answers she is giving the LGBTQ’s people need to learn about what is going on in the gay community and stop destroying women and their rights as well as the children she is explaining it so well why won’t they listen.

Imagine being called a pearl clutcher by these ball clutchers!

Aaaaaaannnnnddd subscribed. 👍🏻 Srsly, this is the most respectful, rational and calm explanation / defense of an idea once taken for granted.

I don't have a 'gender identity'. I am a male. I feel the way I feel, and I am male. Some people may have body dysmorphia, but that can apply to gender bits or any other bits on your body.

I imagine Kathleen Stock is somewhat weary of stating what is the blooming obvious to most people. Nevertheless she is to be congratulated for her philosophical and psychological clarity. Missing to date however from professor Stock’s public commentary has been an address to the cultural gobbledygook of academics such as “distinguished” professor Judith Butler. What about it professor Stock?

I found the filming of this made it oddly hard to watch. The way they're sitting almost side on and not really facing eachother, the way the window takes up more of the shot than the people, the fact I could see people moving around in the window. But as usual I could still listen to Kathleen all day!

I clicked on this title expecting the typical cringe alphabet propaganda and ended up staying for the whole convo. Interesting discussion thank you!

Whatever happened to safeguarding in our schools? Ideology trumps the welfare of children?

If there are more than two genders or sex where are they then ?

Hey, another interview with Kathleen. I do so love your work, your style and humor. Just adding, as a 3y old, I wanted to become a horse, as a ca 8y old I would have loved to become a dog. And as a teenager, as well, I was extremly awkward, a super tall, skinny, long feeted girl, always sticking out, fast forward some decades, I grew into my skin and felt comfortable in my not so feminine body, and embraced my nerdiness and thirst for knowledge and specializing in my field of profession. Now my older son, 16y, ist laser focused on becoming a fire fighter and when I told a colleague about his single mindedness he grinned and mock asked where this boy might have e gotten it from…

No question I would have considered transitioning in the ‘80’s had we had today’s culture - NOT because I thought I was a boy, but because I was a bit of a “tomboy” who liked to play with my brother and his friends (Nerf football, climbing trees, etc.) I also hated the sexualization that came along with becoming an adult woman (eg. porn, which has only gotten more debasing) and because I resented being put down for being too intelligent! “Why can’t you be more simple and sweet and loving?” Sooo offensive.

When I was small, the only girl with four older brothers, all I wanted was to be a boy, the whole standing up to pee etc. Puberty hit at 13 and I was totally female! Not a fluffy, little kittens girl, but very happy to be a natural born woman!

Very interesting conversation. I thought the topic was discussed well and in a calm respectful manner. I was disappointed with the end of the interview which disparages “the Right” and somehow it is they who are against free speech. In the US, it has been the Left who during this presidency has weaponized the Law against free speech out of fear. Lastly, I Katherine’s comment about the debate she took part in had religious elements to it. Sorry she was raised in a “it’s really about faith” Catholic upbringing. That really has been a great failing of Christianity over this century: Believers failing to understand their Bibles and Faith enough to put forth a reasoned apologetic. Thanks for this discussion. New subscriber.

It’s weird to see our most sacred and oppressed beings now being pushed into the oppressor category. I’m 55 and my entire life Jewish people were the most vulnerable, and LGB people were the most in need to protection. Now many of these two groups of people have been shoved into right wing groups as others have risen up as the most oppressed. Maybe the answer is to celebrate victories instead of continuing to look for the most oppressed and victimized beings.

Kathleen Stock is a very wise and inspiring person.

Excellent.

Superb! Thank you

I love her!🤍

Hiya Kathleen you are a fabulous, kind, humane human being, who genuinely tries to help people. The hatred you have been subjected to is so unjust it makes my blood boil. As you said, you don't have many issues with trans people but with trans activists and they are an entirely different thing altogether. Trans activists are evil and are not interested in helping anyone, least of all children who are always the most vulnerable in society. The bullying tactics they use elicits fear out of far too many of your colleagues and probably leaves you feeling isolated but as long as there are people like yourself and Jordan Peterson around who speak the truth then the activist will not win. Every victory you win slows down their progress and helps to keep children safe. Not very long ago the mutilation of children would be considered a most heinous crime and it will be again. When enough people come to their senses or your colleagues find their courage, the monstrous ideology behind this will be put under a spotlight as will the 'people' funding the trans activist movement and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when it does. Nor would I want to be one of the butchers cutting bits off kids. I know a high percentage of teenage girls have problems with self image during puberty and that is something that has always happened. But now in this day it has become an extremely dangerous time for young women with 'teachers' asking them leading questions and guiding impressionable young minds down a very dark path. What used to be referred to as a tom boy can now lead to real tragedy and those guidance teachers also have a lot to answer for although some of them may actually think they are helping. Lets face it, being a fellow Scot, you'll know most school teachers are thick as mince. Tavistock was shut down when enough people became aware of it. The Cass report and the work you do all help shine a light and for all the intimidation that trans activists and Stonewall are guilty of......................as of today twenty three thousand people have watched this video and virtually all of us are behind you and we are all talking. The Internet is a two edged sword, unlike mainstream media, it cannot be controlled and once the information is out there, it spreads. Whilst they try and curb free speech they will ultimately loose, they just haven't thought it through to a logical conclusion. Equality is something our ancestors strived for and attained. We have had it for many decades and a society that has attained that level of freedom will not give it up. Although both main parties haven't been working for the British Public for about three decades there is light at the end of the tunnel in the Reform Party. Though there is a hell of a lot to be put right the will to do so is growing and the flag that guarantees all our rights, the Union Flag will be dominant again replacing the pride flag and those malign forces that hide behind it hurling abuse. Thank you Kathleen......

This interviewer interrupts excessively and consistently asks irrelevant questions.

"...that great minds don't always think alike... and I think that's something we can all agree upon!"

Important conversation!

Like Sussex University's Student Union (with its paid employees), there are quite a few trans-supporting campaigns which have employees, who put bread and butter on their tables or pay their mortgages through the salaries those campaigns pay them. They have a powerful vested interest in pushing trans ideology. In the UK these groups include Stonewall, Pink News, Mermaids, the Terrence Higgins Trust, the Peter Tatchell Foundation, and many more "charitable" groups.

an excellent video ❤

Couple oddball questions: Is this “fiction” the result of reading and writing too much? As this theory doesn’t seem to take hold in the blue collar circles (as much). What is so wrong with normality? Why do we want to change what society naturally arrives to agreement on? My teen tells me that at school he’s taught that holding a preference for normality is social violence.

He keeps interrupting her!

Your bit about the non-issue of being "mis-gendered" "Sir you don't belong here" "Yes I do" reminds me of the way "activists" of all types so often misrepresent the lives of the people they claim to speak for. I also like the bit about "being a lifetime Liverpool fan" as a real identity you acquire over time, not something you are born as. I think the entire sixties obsession with "finding your authentic self" leads us astray. I tried out various identities in my twenties and some of those false starts helped me uncover it over time after experience...not as a fourteen year old. In the US we have drivers education classes and sex education classes, but the driver's ed classes usually start a year before we expect students to start driving. We don't talk to elementary school students about driving, let alone ask them what type of car they want to drive in ten years. For most of us the type of car we drive and the type of sex we have are constrained choices based on locally available options.

Thank you!

Then don't vote Labour, this confusion will just get worse.