Thank you! Was completely horrified that this so called “human rights activist” seemed to have absolutely no concern for the human rights and safety of women and girls. Just another example of the utter misogyny of the extreme trans movement and their supporters. There is absolutely no reason why women should have to sacrifice their rights in order that transgender people can acquire theirs.
It was worse than that. He argued that men who are sexual deviants who have been arrested and prosecuted for sexually abusing women in women's spaces should be allowed back into women's spaces after they have been imprisoned if they are deemed to have reformed. Everyone deserves a second chance to offend.
@bobby sternlicht Keen is speaking from a woman’s perspective. And she is speak for, in my humble opinion as a woman, the majority. If trans people want safe spaces, then they should be fighting for their own, not to invade ours. And men fighting against women, when it doesn’t affect them AT ALL, is absolutely laughable.
But we can't call them 'trans-women' as it offends them!🤔🤔 Ergo, as they usurp our female rights we are forced into allowing ourselves to be described as 'people who menstruate'/have a uterus...blah..blah..' We are now reduced to being described by our organs & bodily functions or a contrived 'prefix' - which is not offensive at all!🤦🤷🤦
@@newforestpony9567 I understand where you're coming from. I have two daughters it's ridiculous and beggars belief that biological facts are offensive.
women's rights for women. I don't recognise men as women. I do not accept being qualified by 'cis' as this is offensive to women. Thank you Kellie for all you said.
@@davidadiwego4608 Social roles and conventions were automatic and never in question throughout 1st and 2nd wave generally speaking, only the choice for marriage, children and to earn a living. Opinions vary, but generally speaking social roles, conventions were never rejected until perhaps recently.
@@davidadiwego4608 are you saying you think it is right that women stay at home, to have babies, do all the traditional home duties, have no rights, are not allowed to vote, work or be educated and be seen as sexual objects with no say on how it makes them feel? that i believe was what the original femisnists were fighting about.......
@@craighart9278 - it means he is part of the LGBTQ+ community and that not everyone in that community shares the gender ideology. It means the organisation isn't representative for homosexual individuals. It is important to many homosexuals to say that out loud. Which is also the reason behind them making a new organisation, LGB alliance.
I can’t stress enough how important it is for women to have spaces exclusively for them. This was understood by our grandparents. For back in those days there were women’s only carriages on trains, waiting rooms on the platform marked for women only, separate women’s wards in hospital and times at the swimming baths that were solely for women. The Victorians and Edwardians knew the value of separating the sexes for the protection of women. How sad and tragic that this form of safeguarding no longer applies.
Women only spaces are a necessity. This debate is often centred around western trans women but women from the global south are often left out of the conversation. Caroline Criado Perez’s book ‘invisible women’ touches on how gender neutrality actually statistically harms women and girls and benefits men.
they also locked women up for hysteria. wouldn't let them vote or have jobs or their own money, and treated us like property (which we ourselves weren't allowed to own) please let's not act as if the past was somehow better for us, it absolutely was not
Even today there are women only train carriages in Japan. The trains are very full - so many people squished in together- and there was a real problem with some men opportunistically groping women or rubbing up on them.
@@comfymoder So are feminine gay men actually women? What about masculine lesbians? Are they men? Are feminine men more of a 'woman' than masculine women? This is sexist stereotype nonsense. Women = female.
@@community647 They are women if they transition to women because they feel better suited taking on a female role yes. Usually because they want to avoid the masculinisation of their body from testosterone. Everyone enforces sexist stereotypes because everyone has a gender identity and wants to fit some traditional ideal of femininity (or masculinity). This is just reality, if a man is very feminine and wants to be seen that way he has to conform to those ideals.
@@community647 To make the point clearer. You don't call a woman she because you have x ray vision to see whats in their underwear, you do it because they look like what you expect a woman to look like. If you ever met a passing transgender woman you would instinctively call her she because you yourself conform to sexist stereotypes of what women and men look like. And that's fine, everyone does that and thats why transfeminine people do their best to conform to that standard to be accepted.
I think Peter needs to speak to the Tavistock clinic if he's under the illusion that it's "extremely difficult" for young children to be 'transgendered' in this country.
This is the one and only time I will tell a man he has no right to an opinion! How dare you, Peter, tell me that you think it's okay that I have to share a toilet with a man? How dare you tell us how to feel about having someone biologically different and generally stronger using a space set out for women?
Just an add on, thank you to all the lovely darling men who are standing up for their daughters, wives, mothers and sisters in the comments, we need you and appreciate you ❤️
You have probably shared a public loo where a trans woman has been there and not realised … the majority of trans women are not a threat and just go there too pee!
@@freyjakat9217 I very likely have, and contrary to how it may come across there are some trans women out there that I adore and would not have a problem sharing space with, but my opinion doesn't come above that of other women, older ladies and little girls who may not feel the same. There are those out there who will and are using the rule softening to be a threat, and we can't allow this to progress further.
Why is the media promoting that some governing body dictate the rules of a society that would regulate itself? . ; We take issue with those who make demands without any intention of respecting the group.
Tough… the feminist left woke have trail blazed this nonsense , while THE RIGHT have been warning you about this for over a decade. And those on The Right were shouted down by woke leftist and labelled homophobic.
@@stephenking8505 you don't sound particularly willing to help with your response of "Tough...", maybe stop being so sanctimonious, and realise most women and girls aren't feminists, yet they're being harmed by this twisted ideology regardless.
@@apebass2215 I won't tolerate men beating women up and like I say your going to need us because the government aren't going to back down over this. Where's all your sjws at? Oh that's right they're OK with men beating women up.
@@stephenking8505 'my' sjws? I never had any sjws. I'm very much capable of standing up for the truth and biological reality, whereas you seem more concerned about scoring cheap political points that are ultimately meaningless.
Tatchell deliberately mis-represents the argument here. No-one is saying that trans people don't have rights. Most of us are just stating a fact by saying they are NOT biological women. If trans people want their own toilets and sports teams or whatever else then fine. Go ahead. Just don't pretend to be a biological woman. You are not.
Well, you're not that smart to begin with. I'm actually impartial on this issue but Peter's argument are indeed compelling. I don't care about dictionary definitions, I care about scientific data. Peter repeatedly asked and pointed out the data which is the correct thing to do. Scientists only care about the data. If the data shows evidences of harm or advantage are almost negligible, then I'm quite convinced. Unless the data shows a sudden spike of trans athletes domination, I think Kelly doesn't have a leg to stand. As Peter pointed out, most elite athletes have biological features that are above normal.
@@simonclare100 A definition from which branch of science? You have to be specific here. Let me ask you also a simple question: define gravity for me. Depending on the scientific field that you're in, the definitions will differ. But it's explaining the same natural phenomena. In this case, we're talking about this natural phenomena called "gender identity" which is a mix of psychology and biology. Why does a trans woman define herself as a woman? At least from the papers I've read, there are biological markers that make them psychologically think this way. So, from a biologically-based-psychological point of view they can be defined as a woman but not from a strict biological point of view. You see the nuances here? On the other hand, how many research papers have you read?
@@kazearaki853 what utter nonsense, woman is defined by biology alone initially as a base line, if you can't define it from there you can't substantiate any 'theories' from that point. Start at the beginning, if you can't even do that the rest has no foundation
@@apebass2215 he isn't pretending it's what he believes, and he has every right to voice his views regardless as to whether you or I agree with him, what don't you get about that?
@@testudohorsfieldii7052 yes, he believes women don't exist. How can anyone promote women's rights if they don't know what women are? He has every right to his sexist beliefs, just like I have every right to disagree with him.
This guy actually claims trans women don't have an advantage. Look at the stats. Nearly all transwomen who enter women's sports dominate them. You have to be either thick or disingenuous to argue otherwise. Facts don't care about your feelings.
@@cyclist68 anyone who refers to cleaning your own house, cooking your own food and looking after your own kids as 'unpaid labour' is a feminist. She just rejects the label, probably because a large proportion of the feminist movement have labelled her a "terf" and demonized her, so she's rejected them in turn.
Notice at 8.08 Peter Tatchell brings in the word "feminist" instead of saying "women," presumably as a way of obscuring the fact that it is men and women being discussed, not ideological subsets. This debate usually seems to involve throwing in many red herrings to hide reality. When this fad is "history" the people of the future are going to have a lot of trouble understanding how it could have happened, just like I couldn't understand 16th and 17th century witch-burning for a long time. Now it is clear how such things can happen.
Watching Posie smash Tatchell's teeth in with verbal right hooks with her intellectual brass knuckles is a delight I've watched this several times through, and seeing Tatchell grovel in a ball of snot and tears is heartwarming. Go Posie!
Maybe they feel threatened going into the gents dressed as women so they want to go into the women's,easier for them,they don't care how threatened women feel.
Absolutely agree with Kelly. Interesting that men like Peter appears in charge of what women should or should not accept. He denies biological reality and the biological advantage that men have in sport.
@@manchegocheese997 Right? I mean he deprived a woman of an olympic spot, so there's that. I also think he may have lost on purpose but we all know men are not as strong emotionally as women, so he could have just folded under the pressure of having to pretend to be a woman for all the world to see while trying to steal the spotlight.
Why did Peter get so much airtime? It was extraordinary and definitely unbalanced, he got the first word and the last word on everything! And he speaks lies, Hubbard lost because he was old and he was mediocre to begin with, once they put up a young man who is an elite athlete the women will not stand a chance. Many disingenuous arguments here Peter.
@@savewomenssportaustralasia2730 I may be wrong, but I think that Hubbard deliberately lost so that in the future we will be told "look, transwomen don't have an advantage over women, so they are allowed to compete in all sports against women". He was probably paid well to fail.
Kellie-Jay was pitch perfect. Peter just struggled to present a woke narrative and he was very wrong about mental health improvement in those who had transitioned.
Cowardice is called courage Men are called women Racism is called anti-racism Fascism is called anti-fascism Regressive is called progressive Opinions are called facts Facts are called hate Welcome to the West in 2021
I am a straight woman. Not only is Kellie extremely intelligent and 100% right, she’s also incredibly beautiful. Thank you Kelly for being our voice 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
because they are very vocal about pushing laws that stop any critic and opposition to their erosion of gay and women's rights. this is a bad movement for lesbians/gay and women in general
they also have google/big pharma giving money into trans lobby groups that have been working very hard under the guise of LGBT- despite being homophobic
He can virtue signal, and has no wife or female children to worry about. Gay men are commonly extremely misogynistic. Not all of course. Some of the greatest feminist allies are gay men. Tatchell also doesn’t have to worry about being coerced into a sexual relationship with a trans identified man, because the ones who are attracted to men(very few) aren’t attracted to gay men. Gay men without compassion for women and children, like Peter, have absolutely nothing to lose when it comes to this issue.
The same narcissistic motives that led him to demand gay cruising rights in public parks! Not one thought for children & families exposed to this, and now he expects psychologically disturbed children and adults to act out their social gender fantasies with the support of all around them! Anything to avoid confronting their personal problems, just like he's avoiding confronting his.
His motive is keeping himself in the spotlight. Tatchell is a long-established attention-seeker. In old age he is keeping himself in the spotlight by presenting himself as a sagacious voice of reason. He is in fact a sad loner.
He's going to simply stop debating her soon.. She's fully got his number EVERY time.. She's so sharp and concise.. All this talk about feminism and trans issues.?. That women right there is solid.. That to me is a strong women.. Super smart takes no prisoners..
Well, you're not that smart to begin with. I'm actually impartial on this issue but Peter's argument are indeed compelling. I don't care about dictionary definitions, I care about scientific data. Peter repeatedly asked and pointed out the data which is the correct thing to do. Scientists only care about the data. If the data shows evidences of harm or advantage are almost negligible, then I'm quite convinced. Unless the data shows a sudden spike of trans athletes domination, I think Kelly doesn't have a leg to stand. As Peter pointed out, most elite athletes have biological features that are above normal.
@kazearaki853 Stop kidding yourself. The science is in..., however, even without the science anyone with any common sense will know that every sport men outclass women. Men are males and will always be. Males, whatever they call themselves are males and there will always be an advantage.
"Most trans women are not much different than other women" LOL, that should have come with a warning! I nearly choked on my chocolate almond milk, laughing so hard!
If you told me a decade or more ago that we would actually have to waste time trying to figure out if men pretending to be women are actually women, I wouldn't have believed you. And I had a pessimistic outlook on the intelligence of our species back then too. Obviously not pessimistic enough...
Laurel Hubbard is almost double the average age of the lifters he competed against, which is ancient in weightlifting. He was a very average male weightlifter and decided to compete as a female and is now able to stand on the stage as an elite, world class Olympian. If that doesn't show what difference there is between the sexes, then I don't know what to say. The woman whose spot he took is the one I feel sorry for. What a complete joke.
Laurel Hubbard was beaten by several cis women weight-lifters, though. If she'd have had a physical advantage over the other competitors she would have won.
@@katie2858 My point being that a lifter, way beyond their physical peak, who retired through injury as a male and took years out, decided to start lifting again against females and was able to compete at a World class level and push out the best female lifter in new Zealand, who is half the age and at the peak of her career. This is now acceptable in the Olympics, so imagine if a decent male lifter, in their prime, decided to compete against women. Even after a year of hormone blockers, etc. It is going to be a joke and it will be women that suffer. I am labelled as transphobic for having that view, but I really don't care what someone chooses to do with their lives, as long as it doesn't impact detrimentally on others. I would say I champion fairness, so when I see where this is destined to go over the next 20 years, then women are going to be impacted detrimentally. We haven't seen anything, yet.
Cis-women an appalling term!!!!! I agree absolutely with Kelly. I am surprised and disappointed that Peter does not support womens right to their own safe spaces. Peter also denies the biological differences between male and female and the advantage this gives transgender males in sport. That is denying the obvious.
I truly dearest it with every fiber of my being!!!!! ❌🤨 ughh! Like trans women needs a prefix, biological women don’t! It’s completely absurd at this point! Pfft
Kellie 100% - Tatchell is just not with it. He seems to be unaware of the Kiera Bell/Tavistock clinic scandal - either that or he’s ignoring it because it’s inconvenient. Respect and support for trans people, but a trans woman is a man. Respect single sex spaces & maintain & extend women’s sex-based rights
Peter, lost it when he tried to talk about trans in sport, he doesn't have any understanding of the physiological differences between the two sexes so talked about big women and small men.....
Doesn’t the prefix ‘trans’ demonstrate that a trans person is not really the sex they claim to be? A trans man or woman would just be called a man or woman, surely?
Dissapointed Kelly was cut off after Peter was allowed a long diatribe, spouting feelings over facts, he is so wrong and ignores the danger to very young minds before they are mature enough to rationalise these issues
PT was interrupted by KJ as he spoke of his example of the Refuge where the staff voted and the users of the service voted to allow men who dress/'identify' as women to use the service. The host interrupted KJ and this was not explored fully. Allow debate and allow rational critiques of examples. Today if Isla Bryson or Barbie kardashian wanted to seek refuge claiming abuse, would the staff/service users vote on that, or have they set a precedent?
The worrying aspect of this is that we are even having this conversation. If we can no longer agree on the definition of a man and a woman as being absolute all hope is lost on every other aspect of the human existence .
Lord - what a windbag PT is. He was allowed almost twice as much time as Kellie-Jay to say not very much but oozed sanctimonious compassion. And what was that all about - droning on about the alternative Miss World - Kevin should have moved that one along. Totally irrelevant to the conversation. Kellie-Jay was clear, concise and I would have like to have heard more - especially countering PT's dismissal of the epidemic of destructive surgery on teens in the USA. He’s not doing his homework to find what is really going on. Keira Bell's case counters his assertion that it can't happen here. What about the disgusting “yeet those teets” slogan on a US surgeon's instagram. It’s beyond grim and deeply disturbing.
Well of course he was, he is a man. Even in a debate about women's rights, the male moderator looked ot the male for his alleged wisdom. LOL! We women know how this works.
@@groundcontrol436385 Don't need to worship me forever whiny misandrist; I don't care, and in fact, hope the lunacy continues to torment you. I will do nothing to help you. You reap what you sow lol
@@scotlandtheinsane3359 I thought you were 'stepping in to help'? Then someone said something you didn't like and you flounce off? I fail to see what help you could possibly offer. You appear to be unable to cope with a YT comments thread.
Fallon Fox breaks woman's skull Peter Thatchell "trans women don't have a physical advantage over biological women" I think that woman with a broken skull would beg to differ mate'
The male track fellows who were ranked 300, went trans and won 14/15 state championships and broke 11 records, set by 8 women over 20 years. A fellow who went trans, and in first competition won every event and broke 3 records. Just samples of things to come.
"Most trans women aren't any different from most women." The sleight of hand here is that athletes don't represent most people. They represent the best athletically and most perseverent of people. Women's and Men's competitions were seperated because the best women can't compete with the best men at many competitions due to biological differences. If women don't have the women section to themselves then there may as well be no seperation in the first place.
Peter, like so many tra’s, needs to “educate himself”, as they are so fond of telling those of us who disagree with them. He claims to be oblivious to easily verifiable facts by saying he’s not aware of them, and “it won’t happen here” mentality. It’s happening everywhere Peter. We are watching with horror women’s rights being destroyed worldwide, while men like you are turning a wilfully blind eye.
This is the man who campaigned to have the age of legal sex reduced to 12 years old. What else would you expect from him. He even uses anecdotes to try to prove his points.
@@Matty-man I remember reading it quite a few years ago and it was sickening. It didn't keep him off the TV though. It probably one of the reasons I gave up on watching that propaganda nachine 12 years ago.
To quote Peter: "No one is pressuring women to transition, it's about people making choices. I think in a free society, we should accept that and "live and let live"" Yeah, sure, they can make their choices, and they can transition, but they can also stick their sex-based spaces? Why can't Hubbard just compete in men's division? that doesn't exclude trans people.
I think he is just 100% misogynist. He apparently wants women to not be safe, he wants children to be available for adults in an adult way, he wants young girls to be ruined. His attitude to young people is frightening. That campaign yonliwer she if consent is behind him endorsing 12 yr old masectomies. The guy is full of ideas that are deluded and dangerous.
I love Kellie! Why is it always a discussion about trans women and never ever about trans men?? It’s always men that change to women I’ve not watched one debate about women that turn to men wanting this or that. It’s an attack on women. Keep talking Kellie!
Tatchell talks about female activists, which is a tiny minority of woman , as though they are more important than the majority of women who will disagree with him and the activists.
Laurel hubbard must have failed all of his lifts on purpose. There's videos of him easily lifting much heavier weight in training, than was lifted in the Olympics. The lifts he failed on could even be considered warm up sets for him, but he decided to fail. For what reason? It all sounds very fishy if you ask me.
Kelly speaking absolute truth and sense, Tatchell has extremely questionable opinions to say the least And please stop saying cis women 🤬 a woman is a woman 🤷♀️everyone on the planet knows what a woman is ffs
Tatchell doesn't seem to know what is actually happening, does he? Either that, or he is disingenuous. Horrible, especially, his attitude to girls, and his dismissal of women. His right to privacy, dignity and safety are not been eroded.
I don't mind calling Jack Jill but I don't have to accept he/she is a woman. There is more to being a woman than just appearance and that is all that a man who identifies as a woman is able to achieve, sometimes not very successfully.
@@meatfeast335 , I don't know but find the letter he wrote to the Guardian called 'Tatchell on Sex With Children'. It's enough for me to discount his opinion on vulnerable groups, be it women or children, losing rights to less vulnerable groups.
Yes and that was in his published book. What's his private opinion is we can only guess. Edit: I made a statement I cannot back with evidence and so decided to remove it. I will say that I believe Tatchell was a close friend of another man who advocated something that is criminal and was imprisoned for that vile crime.
Yes, and he defended pedophilia in a letter to the Guardian. The gay rights movement has consistently advocated for the elimination of the age of consent since its inception, although they tend not to present that side of their agenda to the public. Tatchell is one of many.
The opening statement reveals the absurdity of it all: "Peter, I believe that Kellie-Jay insists than transwomen are not female, where do you stand on that?" The fact that this is being framed in such a way that implies KJK is the outlier. How the hell is this even debatable among educated adult human beings? I know Kevin was trying to be impartial, but there is nothing to be impartial about. Whats next?: "Peter, I believe that Mr. Smith insists that Santa Claus isn't real. Where do you stand on that?" TY Kellie-Jay Keen for being the one adult in the room!
Sorry, so in what world does this bloke have the authority to tell a woman that it's ok for her and her daughter's to get changed in the women's swimming pool changing rooms in front of a geezer in a skirt ffs
When it comes to female sports . People born biologically male and transition generally have physical advantages over biological females , that's why 'trans women shouldn't compete and anyone using the fact that Laurel Hubbard lost, to try and prove that trans women don't have physical advantages over biological women would be like saying if one female athlete can be successful against male athletes in one event it proves biological men don't have a physical advantage over biological females as a group, which of course would be clearly untrue. Kellie Jay won this debate hands down
The only sport where a female couldn't possibly outplay a male is a skill only sport. So things like curling, archery etc Things that require you to be physically fit, then they have no chance
@@natsohigh5552, even in archery a male's upper body strength would be an advantage. Hubbard lifted more than 2x the weight previously so this loss was either deliberate or it was caused by some technical fault like failing to get the grip correctly or whatever it is called. Maybe Hubbard didn't talc enough - sweaty hands and all.
These advantages are well documented. Also, research has shown hormone treatments do very little to impact overall performance. Simply having a lower testosterone lever has no impact on many of the advantages that a male has.
@@mandysymons2142 but what makes you a female child?? As an intersex person (which I am) you could say I'm both Male and Female and I was born that way, so does that make me a female now and so a woman ????
This guy makes extremely bold statements about the transitioning of children of which there is no data whatsoever to back up. Do your homework people these kids are being prescribed "treatments" after 1 email. No in-person meeting nothing. There are clinics that are bragging about doing this.
