Find out how important the room is and what to do about it's acoustic problems. And check out our new RU-vid channel, Octave Records / @octaverecordsanddsdst...
The million dollar question ? After +35 years with this wonderfull passion for sound and nusic, it still blows me how important room treatment in fact is, like speaker set-up. Move your speakers an inch or so, and u will notice a slight difference in bass response, imaging, soundstsge and many other things. You don't really know your set-up, untill these things are in place. So the million dollar question is all about doing these things right, and the only way to know that for sure, is to role up your sleeves and get to work. It can be done in a rush, or u can spend the rest of your life trying as me? Your choice 😁 ✌️❤️🇩🇰
It never ceases to amaze me how many people have an upside-down understanding of LEDE. In a Live End Dead End room, it is the FRONT of the room (ie. where the speakers are) that is intended to be dead, and the BACK of the room that is live. If you look at most of the high profile studios designed by acousticians who use LEDE principles, or later evolutions of LEDE like RFZ, the wall behind the listener has a QRD diffuser on it and the front is typically a fabric stretch-wall system.
Ah, Boulder, Colorado, Canada. Swansea is in Wales, my friend, about an hour and a half from REL Acoustics in Bridgend (Wales), to put it in Audiophile geographical terms :-)
Well I have been designing and setting up state of the art music systems for over 45 years. Most people put to much emphasis on the room and the acoustics of the room. Why ? Because the key to getting good sound which is essential is proper speaker placement ! Speaker placement is critical. The key is tuning the speakers to the room ! Not the room to the speakers ! If you spend the time and have the flexibility to place the speakers anywhere in the room then the key is taking the time to properly tune the speakers to the room. We all know that distances from the boundary’s effect bass response. Well once you get the bass right then you can fine tune the rest the sound as well as the tune imaging. What you will find is when you find the ideal placement of your speakers the rooms colorations and even reflections have been tuned out. Yes you can fine tune the sound with acoustical treatment but must be done very carefully and sparingly. Very light absorption materials can be used in strategic areas if any is really needed at all. Most people think you want a dead room. It couldn’t be farther from the truth. You want reflections they are your friend you just want it to be delayed ever so slightly. A 1 to 1.4 second delay is desired. For those who say they don’t have the flexibility to place there speakers anywhere in the room my suggestion is to go through the process and find that ideal speaker placement, mark the spot on the floor and when you want to do some serious listening pull them out and put them on that spot. When done listening simply push them back when they need to be out of the way. I have found the 1/3 rule works every time. But that is only a starting point. Very small changes effects the sound significantly, You know you are close when you don’t hear the room and have achieved the best bass response. It takes much time and patience but it is essential if you want to get good sound.
Yes, Pete, to those of us who have learned acoustics and done our listening spaces up proper like.... room acoustics are more important than the actual stereo. The difference between treated and not treated is simply profound. The way to do it is to start with simple first reflection absorption, and as your ears get into things and you start to be able to hear what the issues are etc then you start hunting other room features that need to be removed from the sonic landscape via absorption and or resonance dampening. When you have gotten well on with that and you feel now the sound is missing something in the life/ mojo category. that is when you introduce diffusion to the room in specific places and via the diffusion you create the actual sonic landscape. You also need to deal with room modes, that is a whole issue unto itself and of monumental importance for the sonic qualities, as having modal presence with distort the sound all the way to 20k hz.
Audioholics has a couple videos that go really in depth about specs, placement and different kinds of absorbers and diffusers. They are long but answer any question you have about room treatment
I wish more YT reviewers showed how to improve the room acoustic without necessarily giving into room treatments products. Not many are willing to put bass traps and diffusion panels in their living room or have the luxury of a dedicated room.
You simply can't for low frequencies - Bass don't give a shit about your furniture - get membrane absorbers and hide them behind acoustic pictures - bad when you can't because nobody thought about anything when design the room - you won't see much of my 2500 liters absorption without pointing at it (pictures, plants etc to hide the stuff)
@@dan-nutu I tried as best I could in the small room in my apartment. I have bass traps absorption panels yadda yadda. Lots of equipment in a small room. I hang stuff with comand strips etc.
That's right....There are simple home decor practices that you can follow for room treatment....thick curtains and area rugs, book cases on the back wall and/or sides with books of course, thick fabric sofas and chairs all help deaden or diffuse and can be positioned to maximize the room acoustics
@@lenimbery7038 mosst of that don't bother bass and results in "overdamping" becasue you kill everything in heights and mids while yoiur bass still has it's own living
In high school, I bought my stereos from San Luis Obispo, CA’s Warehouse Sound Company. (Marantz 2325, Infinity Monitor Jrs. Etc.) In the back pages of the catalog, they sold a ‘room tuning kit’ guaranteed to ‘spreads the highs about the room’ per the ad copy. Oddly, there was only a photograph of an alligator clip on an extendable antenna. Huh.. 🤣 enjoy your videos Paul, and my gen1 PWD!
Agree. Go to a recording studio and you'll hear it damped aswell. It's good for mastering, but bad for enjoying. Rooms give their character with their acoustics. I love the sound of a good decorated long room (libraries, plants, frames, wood) with some treatment. Finding the sweet spot is the aim but not too much certainly.
Yeah,I appreciate your time too. Might not agree with u all the time but your opinion matters to me. Been watching your vids for 3 years now and appreciate taking time out of your day. Now make some damn speakers for around 1000 to 1500.
that's why when you have absorption panels like five or six inches of open cell foam you leave a gap in the panels of 6" or do not go up to the tweeter! the second absorption panels should be at your listening point and slightly in front 2ft and the gap between the panels should be 12" where it would be in line with the tweeters. and always concentrate on the ceiling above your speakers and slightly in front one 1ft about the speakers and 2.5-3 feet in thecentre. a 5" gap to the sidewalls between panels if no more than 3.5 feet away and between the speakers 7" gap. and some corner bass traps you should be fine, make the bass traps out of offcut carpet ideally shagpile or similar, get 4 wooden blocks for each carpet make sure it goes from floor to ceiling. the carpets behind the speakers the block should be 6" across screw in place 1 at the bottom 1 at the top and two evenly spaced in middle, make sure the carpets spiral's at least half its diameter inside, what should be 2 - 2 1/2 ft across. the back rolled up carpets in the corner have to be spaced anywhere from 12ft if that's your sitting position, give or take to 22" gap across if the room dictates it by its size in length. same thing just make your wooden blocks wider placement is important for the open gap of the spiral. the spiral opening behind the speakers should be facing each other tight to the wall. the carpets in the corners facing the speakers have to be on the side wall with it's opening against the wall facing the speakers.
I disagree with a live room. I like totally dead . I set up listening in the near field about 8 ft with an Equilateral triangle from my ears That way I can hear exactly what's on the recording. I get tons of holographic imaging ( if it's on the recording ) and the sound behind the speaker when I set in the sweet spot
Did anyone notice that everything Paul said is completely wrong according to the acoustic experts? First off the wall behind the speakers is called the front wall not the back. Second, you’re supposed to put absorption behind the speakers to absorb the back wave that comes off the speaker against the front wall, and then put diffusion on the back wall behind the listening position. Very strange
You're correct about the front wall back wall. However, I would argue on the last point that there are two distinct schools of opinion when it comes to that and certainly "experts" don't agree. The debate is classic and it's even got a name, live end/dead end. I happen to belong to one school.
@@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285 Ok that’s fair I didn’t realize there were competing strategies. When I did my room I followed the guidelines from the acoustic authorities like Dennis Foley from Acoustic Fields, Glenn Kuras from GIK and Ethan Winer from Real Traps.
@@adamk4716 All good means of doing things. Much depends on the outcome you wish. A live-end installation has the advantage of being much more holographic in its soundstage at the expense of being a bit "rich" in reflections. A dead-end approach hasn't the same holographic soundstage but is much "cleaner" and sterile sounding. Both are valid approaches. They just depend on what you want out of it.
I can't believe this, Pete from Swansea asked _exactly_ what I wanted to ask, too! Including the 2nd part, i.e. if the room is more important than the electronics (I had a hunch it is). Thanks Pete, and thanks for confirming this Paul!
It is crazy people spend thousands on equipment and completely ignore the room when it is the most important component in an audio system. And... how many people don't even have their speakers properly positioned.
@@vinylrules4838 That's why I was interested to hear the answer. I am not happy with the way my system (nothing expensive) sounds (and I did spend time positioning the speakers and using REW with a calibrated USB microphone) but as long as I'm stuck here it doesn't make too much sense to spend (a lot) more on the system.
@@toothy3637 Just out of curiosity, could you share how long ago you sent in the question? I'm asking because I have a few others that I'd like to ask but I wouldn't want to have to check every day for a long time to see if I was lucky to receive an answer. I hope this doesn't sound too selfish!
@@dan-nutu Hi Dan is was just before Christmas so about 4-5 weeks ago. I think I’m at the point where my money is better spent on the space rather than the gear.
I disagree, unless you absolutely CAN’T treat for bass absorption first. Bass frequencies are so long that in typical home listening spaces that they will present problems, especially for full range speakers that go really deep, along with the harmonics generated by sympathetic vibrations from surfaces. Yes, diffusion panels (along with mid/high frequency absorption) on the front wall DO help even if you can’t adequately treat for bass absorption.
I do understand the importance of the room acoustics but I am not enough of an audiophile to alter the room ascetics to fully accommodate the requirements of room acoustics. Rugs and soft furniture will have to do.
Swansea, England. Where the swans play water polo. Lol! But i digress... what on earth is the acoustic purpose of that huge sheet of polished acrylic on your back wall?
Paul what would be your suggestion on taming a large open room? I have a Post & Beam home with tall 20' ceiling's .. The room size overall is approx. 15' wide x 25' Long with those high ceilings.. Thanks Joe
Hi Paul, I've heard you mention klipsch speakers and I have question. I have legend series, klf20s, klfc7, ksps6s, and a ksw300, bought them new in 1999 and love them, recently upgraded my receiver from an Integra dtr7.3 to a Yamaha rxa2a. My question is, considering the high sensitivity does an amp, I'm considering the emotiva basx a2,, make sense. It's about all my budget allows because I also want to order the Bob Crites tweeter and crossover upgrade kits for the front 3
The Live-End Dead-End concept was popular in the '80s and 90's and was used in many control rooms: some good, some not so good. The idea of putting all the diffusion in the front of the room and all the absorption in the back never seemed very logical to me. But, my specific question here is whether diffusers are very beneficial when they're behind the speakers? Is there really much sound there to be diffused?
Diffusors need a lot of space and don't even think about diffusors before you got your room acoustics finished - first you need the cake and then comes creme
This presentation is based on using speaker away from the walls of the room, what would be your recommendations if the speakers were highly directional and controlled, say no more than 90 degrees horizontally, and placed in the corners?
@@sudd3660 Of course! its just that most common folk are stupid weird with how audio looks like in the home today. Elaborate home HiFi setups used to be a status symbol back in the day, not so much now sadly... I just watched a review for an IKEA lamp thats also some kinda BT poo poo speaker.
Thanks Paul! Given your sometimes open antipathy toward standmount speakers, would you be so kind as to name the brand in your listening room. I think I saw a sub lurking in the background. Curious…!
Some logic measurements are to stand in the middle of the room 👏 your hands and listen if there is echo in your room place a rug on the listening room or place heavy drapes on the back window but remember speaker placement is very important
Punch 6 holes in the tweeter. I experimented with 1 to 20 holes, but 6 is the absolute optimum for dampening those vicious tweeters just right. I had to stuff 14 holes in my tweeter after my experiment, but it was worth my while.
It sounds overdamped when you throw crap on the walls but don't do anything for bass - nobody needs the liveness of the room - it's already on the record
I have an L shaped couch that goes 3/4 towards one speaker, i can see all the drivers though. It's a living room, so comprises.... But strange enough, the soundstage isn't affected at all. Acoustics are so weird. The more i read the more i get confused 🤣
Many people like earphones. There you have very little room acoustics but we like it. My square large room has poor acoustics which spoils the sound a lot. I have foam mats on 40% of the room plus furniture and other things. Yet skustikk is not good. I guess you have to dampen the room approx. 50% - 60% before they become really noticeable. Also the roof must be damped
Any chance you can cut the subs pls? Perhaps around 80, like some mics. Listening through a studio set up all the bumps and thuds come through clear as day, and you know your viewers like sub, just in the right place ;)
Treat your room as much as you can - but start with the bass and then balance the upper frequencies to the bass level of absorption. Diffusion creates fake sound field which confuses the brain.
