Troika's Post Apocalyptic Demo 

I could not stop thinking about Kenshi when hearing you talk about Epic and its setting. Even the footage looks a bit like it. I've always thought of Kenshi as a spiritual evolution/successor of the wasteland/fallout theme and type of game. Have you played it? If you have, what's your opinion on it? By the way, it's so cool that you have a channel and share with us your experiences and stories, first-hand accounts from a veteran of the game industry. Thanks!

I wish kickstarter / fundraising existed when Troika was around. I wonder how different would be the history.

That premise sounds really cool, even at a broad level. Always enjoy going into a fictional world with disparate, distinct factions that can represent some facet of that setting - especially when it adds some extra context or slant to a type of post-apocalypse / sci-fi. Like the idea of having some mystery to piece together in what's gone wrong, or maybe have some things that are even up to interpretation but all fit into what you discover. Loved seeing twists like that in The Outer Worlds too, seeing how different it was to interact with the Iconoclasts versus MSI, the Board, Sublight, etc. Makes for a fun, organic journey seeing how their cultures are reflected into different areas of the star system while they all compete toward their own goals. Thanks for sharing stories like this (and all the cool games)!

Tim! You're one of my favorite game devs, and I'm so excited that you're starting this channel. I love hearing your perspectives on game design and bits of wisdom from your career.

It seems to me that games with such a viewing angle as in this one or, for example, in Van Buren or in the Wasteland sequels will be relevant for a long time. They are very comfortable to play. Easier to remember the territory than in games with a large world from the first person. Although I may not be right. Everyone probably perceives it differently. There is a sense of more control in that sense. Sometimes it's easy for me to get lost in the capital wasteland, although everything seems to be fine in life and other games with topography. I also really like to see how lighting works in such games. When the bright sun and contrasts with the shadows appear, everything begins to tighten even more. I once watched a stream of Wasteland 3. There, two friends played together and created their characters with very different body sizes. And when they walked past the spotlight that shone on them, their shadow was visible on the wall. The shadow was exactly as it should be given the size of their characters. This is the kind of detail that plays a huge role. It was incredibly funny to watch. One such detail is remembered for a long time and you immediately fall in love with the game.

Tim, I hope you can share your design documents some day. I'm sure people would love to see them and get some insight into your wonderful ideas.

Don't know if this video came directly from my comment, as i doubt i was the only one asking, but it answered everything! Thanks!

I remember watching the video back when it was published, it was amazing! Thank you for taking the time to discuss all of this with us, it's fascinating.

Sounds like a great concept, shame there were no takers during that time.

Man do I wish I was a wealthy benefactor back at that time. Unfortunately, Tim, I was but 10 years old. Couldn't help. On a side note I'm saving this video because I'm wanting o make a 3D isometric game and that little bit of footage was a great sort of touchstone. Camera distance and perspective are great. Exactly what I was picturing in my head.

Hey Tim are you still involved with the outer worlds 2 creatively ? I've finished the game late last year and instantly went and installed fallout 1 and finished for the 1st time ever fantastic games sir. the potential of the outer worlds as a series is immense and i think having you and Leonard involved is a must tbh

Wardens of Rust is a great title for a lot of things, love it! Really enjoying the series and looking forward to learning more about your career and experiences in the industry!

Question: Why is the Vault in fallout 1 called vault 13 as opposed to say, bunker B?

Sounds awesome and a lot like Dark Sun! That's an IP that still needs a good game!

am i the only one who was expecting him to say he's starting a kickstarter to rebuild the game?

That's a pretty nice 3d isometric engine. Looks similar to the original "Fallout 3" (aka Van Buren) engine, but much nicer. The story and background of your post-apocalyptic game reminds me a lot of what Piranha Bytes did with "ELEX."

Огромное спасибо Тим! Очень ждал этот выпуск, крайне интересно звучащая задумка, жаль она не была реализована. Хотя существует игра Kenshi в которую я никак не могу сесть поиграть, и почему-то ваше описание напомнило мне о ней ).

This is very interesting, and sounds like it would've been a fun game! I primarily work with the source engine and I don't think that I or many others in the source community have heard about this! Thanks for sharing this!

Thanks the videos are dope. Read the Fallout Bible more times then i care to admit thanks for all you have done!

That is very neat. The footage reminds me of Kenshi.

Hey Tim! If you get around to doing a video about game music, can you share a bit about Justin E. Bell and The Outer Worlds? I think the main title track, Hope, is one of the best tracks I've heard in the last few years! Sidenote: Who owns the Arcanum IP right now?

Any idea how that video got out? Glad it did now that it's the only remaining evidence of that project.

Hey Tim, sort of a tangentially related question, but I'm curious if Deathclaws in F1 were intended to ever be a Master "invention" or something that were refined by him. Although I know you weren't involved in F2, the F2 game guide mentions that the Deathclaw was created through genetic mutation by the US Army, and then further refined by the Master. Do you think this was plausible for Fallout 1, or something that the F2 devs simply made up for the purpose of adding more lore?

Damn... it looks and sounds awesome

Interesting. WoW was hot at the time. I wonder how this game would have fared in the market! Sounds like a neat game

Mr. Cain, please *make this game* ! It sounds absolutely incredible! 😮

Thanks for sharing Tim!

Any chance you could reuse some of these old ideas for a new project?

I do wonder how a PARANOIA videogame would have been if you guys made it.

Very cool concept Tim, sounds like a similar setting to Kenshi, which i dont recommend playing if you value free time.

This world kind of sounds like the early versions of Kenshi.

you're great man! creator of my favourite rpg francises.

This sounds amazing.

Where'd the name Troika come from?

Thanks Tim! This is GOLD

Troika sounds a lot like Kenshi, happy coincidence

Did Tim Cain invent Kenshi?

Would you pitch this to Microsoft? Please?

So the game engine's source code just went in the trash with the older computers after all that work? That really sucks. The graphics looked really good from what I could tell. I would have loved to have played that game too. And the idea of the game itself sounds awesome too. I would love to play that even if it were 2D.

Perfection

Sounds like a cool idea 😎

I remember when Bethesda out bid you. I was so anti-bethesda up until I played Fallout 3. I was pleasantly surprised tbh, especially since we grew up in and around DC.

Crazy

I am thankful to Bethesda to bringing fallout into my life; 3 was the first fallout I played. As I learned more about Fallout 1 and 2, and as Bethesda continues to make "fallout" games, it's clear to me that Bethesda's goal has been to make a really good shooter-looter, which they've succeeded at in large part; unfortunately, they seem to have lost the soul of fallout. Gray morality, meaningful decisions, character choices and playstyle effecting outcomes, etc.; it's really a shame that Troika couldn't get the fallout license.

😭

Its a shame that you guys never got to finish this, and that Troika games shut down. It's also a damn shame you didnt get the rights to Fallout back, Betheada has done nothing but run it into the ground with FO4 and 76.

Lets make Epic a realityyy! Kickstarter whennn?

That Prophecy Theme gives that video such amazing vibe I always regret it never got made when I watch it, eventhough the game would probably not feature Brian Eno soundtrack :) It is so unfair that Troika only got to make three games, but it is also kind of poetic given the studio name. Three founders, Troika, Three amazing RPGs.

The 90's and early 00's was an amazing time for RPG's. Games made then didn't have to be sequels or check certain boxes that prevented originally and could be new, fun and exciting. Love these videos.

I am so happy to learn about the history of the games I love, big thanks.

We can only imagine what kind of utopia society would have evolved to, if Troika had obtained the Fallout IP.

Man, I remember watching this video a long time ago. I watched it a couple of times on repeat and was sad that this will never see the light of day. At the time I still couldn't warm up to Fallout 3(D) and would have preferred to have another go in a post-apocalyptic CRPG from an isometric perspective, especially after seeing the graphics of the engine demo. It's been a while that I played any "Troika Games" games, but the intro logo gave me immediately the goosebumps. The choice of Brian Enos track from "Dune" was also brilliant. Even though you say you had nothing to do with the video, I suspect that track was your suggestion back in the day. Oh and I would have loved your approach of not lore dumping prior events, that's why people still discuss lore bits of "From Software" games or make hour long videos about it.

Hi Tim, It appears that in some cases, creative individuals may experience challenges in protecting their intellectual property due to technicalities or publisher agreements, as seen with examples like Fallout, Arcanum, and more recently, Disco Elysium. In hindsight, how would you recommend safeguarding one's rights in these situations, and what insights can you offer to other creatives who may encounter similar challenges?

Can you upload the Design documents or go over them in a video? As an aspriring gamedev, it would help me a lot seeing how you guys worked and your general flow.

Sounds interesting. But im in love with Fallout so another post apocalytic setting would be a hard sell indeed. Then again i absolutely love Arcanum and i have played it since i bought it at release. Maybe lightning would have struck thrice with this game.

Thank you very much. Please hear me out Mr. Tim. This might sound infantile, childish...whatever it is the truth. Me and I know a lot of groups of people who visit the tech demo video (uploaded about 12 years ago) and we cry while are watching it. Every. Single. Time. Some uploader had the idea to put Brian Eno's Prophecy theme as the backscore and the video is literally breaking the hearts of old Fallout gamers ever since the upload. Discussions about forums to save up money and try to at least get the tech demo or to kickstart a reboot....but to no avail. This is how greatly you impact people. We still cry when we see the tech demo and we still do not believe there was no investors interested in this. And I'm talking about people well into their thirties, the old Fallout players. Thank you.

It's a pity game crowdfunding wasn't a thing back in 2003/2004; that pitch and demo from Troika would have generated all the money! 😭

Hey Tim! It's very entertaining (and informative) to get to watch these videos and hear stories/parts of RPG video game development's history that might've otherwise faded into obscurity. Loving the videos! Quick question: I watched a video of your GDC talk on the development of Fallout 1 and about the time when you lost the GURPS license and had to adapt Fallout to a brand new system in (I think it was) 2 weeks? I was wondering if there might be anything more (like a story or some interesting fact) about that 2-week period that might've been left out of that GDC talk, like some more insight into how the current system ended up as it did. (I remember the ACELIPS story.)

I'm sure you already got the comments about this but you should check out some Kenshi videos, Kenshi has the same of similar vibe to what you're describing in BOTH the feeling of the setting with various factions AND Stats+Combat just entirely a sandbox with a kind of 'choose your own adventure' of discovery.

So interesting to see what we didn't get without even knowing it

Thanks for the footage, and for the commentary! It actually reminds me of 2017's Elex, which shows that your team were already thinking ahead in terms of design and scope.

Oh, what could've been... those setting ideas sound incredibly fun. As I sit here reminiscing and wishing Troika had managed to survive, can I ask if you see yourself (and Leonard/Jason) in any indie studios out there, in terms of freeform creativity and passion?

im curious, hearing you talk about post-apocalyptic games is very intresting, do you play any modern ones? one with a intresting setting is underrail

I remember seeing news of this game in an early 2000's edition of a pc magazine. Shame you never got the chance to make it.

I'm curious, in the development of Wasteland and Fallout, where there any influences from pen and paper roleplaying games like Gamma World? And with this game as well, I'm wondering if that was the case. We know a bit of the history of Peter Jackson's GURPS, but I always wondered if Gamma World had played a part or not.

Hey Tim, I must firstly state my appreciation for these deeper dives into the history, design philosophies, and reasons for why things came to be. It's always wonderful to get to hear someone who's created something you enjoy speak frankly on such topics, and allows a deeper understanding and appreciation to be bred, and even a little inspiring despite the struggles you all faced during these times. I have a mild request as well, if you're willing; I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on general world development and storytelling within one, just to understand your own creative processes. For clarification and elaboration, I primarily mean, for instance in Fallout, what were you and the Teams thought process when developing smaller factions; how towns interact with each other, and what and why they trade together for instance. I would appreciate hearing more on this for inspiration sake personally, as whilst I have a few ideas it's always nice hearing more from others. Otherwise, my only advice as a viewer, I know you've acknowledged the audio quality but even a mild investment, maybe $50, can get a decent sounding microphone for use in these. That and doing longer form podcast style videos occasionally with guests can also be an interesting thing to watch. Regardless, hope you have a wonderful evening, Mr. Cain.

You should do a video about the VTM Bloodlines Unofficial Patch Plus. It's great and adds a lot to the game, I'd love to hear your experience with it 🧛

Everyone is asking about the vidja games, but nobody is asking about the man. How you doing Tim? Are you staying hydrated?

Maybe this could be resurrected somehow... like as one of your toys?

Reminds me a bit of Microsoft's Dungeon Siege! Everything down to the green circular player identifier markers

What does the daily life of a contracted thought leader for Obsidian? Do you and Leonard direct the soul of TOW?

Yea this is suspiciously close to a game called Kenshi, even down to certain aspects of the world layout. I wonder if the creator was aware of this game and inspired by it

If you were to start building a new game in 2023, would you prefer to build a bespoke engine from scratch or use an existing engine? If the latter, do you have any preferences for a particular game engine? If the former, what language(s) and/or libraries would you use? As a software engineer that only dabbles in game dev as a hobby, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this matter.

What were the 8 stats you were talking about? 5:30 ish

Troika's games had such soul.

Thank you, for the games and sharing.

Looks just like Wasteland 2!

Yeah, Troika, you got to make three amazing cRPGs that exist! Well done I say. Every game was incredible and gave me joy.

Kenshi vibes.

Thx for video.

Amazing video and new video will subscribe yesterday but I love post apocalypse and vampire video games

Hi Tim, thanks for your deep dives into these topics! I am extremely interested in your perspective on Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines. I was a hardcore VTM tabletop RPG player back when VTMB was released, so it remains one of my favorite games. It's been surprisingly durable with the modding community creating things like the antitribu mod and clan mod to add new quests/locations. IIRC the original formulation of Fallout 1 was as a GURPS video game. Did you play the Vampire/World of Darkness tabletop games, and how much of that influenced the development of Bloodlines?

Year 2003...that was a long time ago, I don't remember exactly what time it was...let me check * Big Brother launched * Destiny's Child conquered the charts * Retro mobile phones Ok, now I remember... I would have needed and appreciated "epic" games to get through those years.

I keep coming back to the demo. It is heartbreaking and beautiful. Prophecy is perfect for it. But there’s more. I had a friend who loved these games. Loved everything from Black Isle and Troika. And I loved him, with all my heart. He got cancer and died. It’s been 15 years. Watching the demo helps bring him to life in me. just a little bit.

Nice, big "Gamma World" vibes. Sounds like a lot of common inspirations with Caves of Qud.

Timothy can you answer the ages old question if in fallout universe rally is the white ghoul whale?

I've watched the Troika video quite a few times but its great to get some backstory.

Everything about this cancelled game reminds me of Kenshi... Have you played Kenshi before by any chance?