Trope Talk: The Hero's Journey 

lol

Yes

Has blue ever had any musical lessons or public speaking lessons, he seems to talk with a very consistent rythum and has a up down up down fluctuation to his voice. XP

It's free real-estate.

True

I thought something felt a little off XD

I know right

That...actually helped. Thanks!

Odd, I always slow red to .75 cause I watched blue's history videos first

You are my savior!

This exact same thing happened to me, lol

There's a whale in Pinocchio?! I really need to rewatch that, I haven't seen it since I was like, five.

@@Great_Olaf5 I don’t think I’ve ever actually watched the movie but through cultural osmosis I know everything about it. The whale should be memorable because it’s absolute terrifying.

really? I thought "who the hell is in a whale, and how can we save this poor sod?!"

Understandable response.

XD This comment is underrated.

I'm so glad they finally addressed the bookcase gap!

I KNEW IT

Yeck Heah!

That was some quality analysis there. 👌

Love it!

Technically it was Blue's chair first, but very nice analysis!

How did I not notice this before.

I'm so glad she did. I couldn't stand not having the "so, yeah"

*that's the joke*

Yeah, like, why is that?

I wanna like this but it has 666 likes.... just say I liked

@@hyerimji4400 you can like now

（╯ ͡° ▽ ͡°）╯︵ ┻━┻

also notice the conveniently placed arm

I remember seeing a comment about it, but mainly because im Marathoning this

*FLIPS BOOKCASE OVER*

When?

No

You wouldn't trope a car

@@redman7775 no meanS no>

And Red is conspicuous absent in the beginning. Clearly there is a conne- *falls over on table with ninja star in back*

Lt. Hughes, is that you?

well my work is done

Sherlock Smuuug :( Still too soon

Is this a reference to Journey To The West Part 1? Doesn't Blue specifically get attacked by ninjas when Red mentions Lao Tzu?

18:34

@@janetrostock6476 thank you kind person

truly. It's so customizeable too. you can basically apply it to any deceased figure with weird strongly held convictions (looking at you Lovecraft)

not any more it isnt

No, its the "did you know this bookshelf is a foot away from the wall" because that perspective fuckery has been killing me

James Tang He quick saved right before the boss

@James Tang Agreed. That was awesome. Strange using the one trick he has; knowing he can't beat the ruler of the Dark Dimension in a straight fight and deciding to use the Dark Dimension's lack of time to trap Dormammu and himself in an infinite time loop where only he can input ctrl+c: Strange: "This is how it is now! You and I, trapped in this moment forever." Dormammu: "Then you will spend eternity dying!" Strange: "But everyone on earth will live." Dormammu: "You will suffer." Strange: "...Pain is an old friend."

I find that moment interesting because I remember hearing about the time loop from my friends before watching the movie and thinking that it sounded stupid, but when I watched the movie I enjoyed that moment a lot.

Honestly one of the coolest ways a hero has ever defeated the big bad.

Its nonstandard, non-direct and clever. What's not to love?

Readers: Why are all these stories so cookie-cut?

Spielberg and Lucas, we're looking at you bastards.

Karol Gutowski wait, you’re me!

Juan Manuel Penaloza I mean, Lucas was a close, personal friend of Campbell’s, to the point that Campbell spent a lot of time in his twilight years as a guest at Skywalker Ranch, Lucas’s home...

Mmmmeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_I_ can't see it ....☹️

I was always able to see it

I have always seen, always

my anger grows.

In this case I DO want that reversing remote Mr. Krabs of Spongebob has.

And even when Blue does the trope talk, Red ends it with "so, yeah".

i do generally prefer Red's videos over Blue's, but i had fun with this one also holy cow likes

I agree with reds usually being preferable. I actually think it may be this video that brings me around to checkimg out blues other videos bacause as you said, it was really good.

Lots of love for Red, But I prefer Blue myself.

Zombles Allegoy Yeah, I just watched some of the Armchair classics which ate a similar pace and feel to Reds and loved it.

Would like, but the likes are at 404

@@razatronidiotics9430 That I can well understand. :)

🎶Burning down the house🎶

For what it's worth, I'd posit that too often we apply tropes the wrong way around, especially as writers... See, here's the thing, if you actively look to use tropes in specific orders and arrangements for structure and narrative genius, unless you're specifically applying the effort to satire, you're probably just fobbing off some generic sort of product, instead of artistically and creatively writing the story... If on the other hand, you look back over the first or second draft of a written work, applying notes about possible tropes along the way, THEN you can pick and choose which tropes (and cliches) might be most applicable to the work, which will slip by basically unnoticed, and which will act to detriment... Through editing, then, you can deviate the usual formula, or satirize one or another of the tropes in the story for comic purpose, or even just get rid of the device, mcguffin, cliched whatever... In retrospect, during discussions, which any worthy piece of art or creativity should induce, the audience (readers, too) can apply a variety of tropes and cliches through the work to see which and how many might actually fit best, or eliminate them from contention as the conversation carries forward... This can reach a better understanding of WHY we appreciate the contemporary works as they come out and WHY there are certain works that... well... suck because of bad-application of tropes... or just bad trope choices to apply. ;o)

Oh hello future me ( get it )

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 there's this one youtube person I watch that literally thinks this hero's journey thing, only more simplified, is the end all be all and that every good story should use it and....honestly I don't like all the stories that follow it, and they even rewrote a story to fit it and made it stupid. Like the original was perfect and arguably fit the monomyth ANYWAY and it just kinda...ruined my view of it. Sometimes I think story structure is just another way to be critical and really isn't a good reflection of the value of the stories themselves. That's why it always annoys me when. My sister refuses to watch a movie because it has lower review ratings. I don't care what critics say. Let ME decide. Not everything had to match up with a universal rule in order to be good.

@@rymaru2138 That person you watch on youtube (apparently) doesn't quite get it... at least, not yet. My point was that the Tropes and Cliches exist... so we might as well use them. HOWEVER, they're better used after the point of at least a first draft... OR (just as valid) they're worthy of use by the audience of a particular work in conversational references TO that work... When a writer starts writing by diagramming his particular list of tropes to use, along the specified cliche of structure to use them in, then he's only creating another formulaic product. There's nothing really wrong with that, B-movies are still fun to watch at least from time to time... along with cheesy and extra cheesy products that might've been acclaimed and awarded some fifty or sixty years ago (before it was a cliche) but is only another in the library(ies) of such things now... stacking up endlessly... gathering dust. If (on the other hand) that same writer scratches out a few "Key" scenes that he thinks are perfect, and then stitches together a sort of a guide to his plot... approximately what the central conflict is and who it involves in his cast of characters... That's alright, too... Only wait until AFTER that first draft gets written out long-form, to go back and start discovering where the "cliche hero" archetype is in the story... What or Who the villain is, and whether or not you've made a delightfully despicable son of a bitch of it... or should it need work. Cliches and Tropes, then... In my general references and purposes, are Placeholders... easily referenced terms to use for suggesting various angles and perspectives of interpretation when I discuss (or partake of discussion) on creative works. They're certainly not going away anytime soon. I'd just far prefer to attach them to something that already exists as a piece of creative work (even privately between a writer and a helpful friend) than to stick them on a graph-sheet and plod along building a story of adventure and antics the way a Corporation hires engineers to build a car or house. Stories exist because the human condition is fluid, organic, and generally ALL FUCKED UP... so we tell stories in some effort to make sense of the mess. You probably shouldn't go about "engineering a mess" from the start. ;o)

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 exactly. I think referencing a framework like this is good when writing the first draft, to help generate ideas and angles, but to literally map out a first draft based completely on something like this is just too much. I'd say use tropes and such to strengthen a narrative, not necessarily to MAKE the thing.

I literally never saw that until now

Yes

Oh I wondered what that was

Oh, yes, I see him! 😆

Yes

Red's dead redemption ... Yes, I'll see myself out.

FAKE FAN! (Jk)

Isagail She was probably in a whale or something...

The 'elixir' is ambergris.

Silas Redding she was in the belly of the whale

John Sears I think so. Blue seems to be the one with the Ninja problem though. Poor guy...

No, Intergalatic wars and killing gods is the norm for these two. Ninja attacks and epic adventures is just a hobby

Wouldn't be surprised if Red was the one sending them.

They're ninjas, how would you know?

+Person It's just like them fighting ninjas and stuff while being like "No, I need to end this fast so I can get this next video out!" and just recording what they can in-between battles, lol.

AAAAnnnd im correct

I spoiled myself, dammit...

LMAO

It is, it's a framework, not an architecture. Like Blue said, it's not a recipe

Aye, but case that chatter when Capt. Teague is around. He'll shoot you for talking bad about The Code.

*excited shoulder monkey noises*

@@dreameater8548 *pets the monkey* 🐒

The Heroes Journey is the Dungeon Master’s Guide to writing heroic stories.

She kinda did that with her quetzalcoatl video

But she says talking about history makes her break out in hives (see King Arthur Video).

she did that with quetzalcoatl

The Hero of a Thousand Faces is an anthropology book so makes sense he did this one I guess. Being honest I thought Red was returning in the middle of the video since this topic is a bit of a overlap of their usual subjects.

Pretentious Elizabeth Red talked about the history of Easter.

DiscoClam Yessss

That particular trope should be publicly executed by fire.

Merritt Animation There’s a right way to do it, and many wrong ways to do it.

Let's not forget Disney's Terrible 2s!

It's a very greedy spin on The Adventure Continues. Hate it.

Subtle and beautiful :)

Is that what the song is called?

Omega157 It's called Threshold by Austin Wintory

Samurai Wolf That’s also fitting (because of the “Crossing the Threshold” step)

@@goldenwarrior1186 The entire soundtrack of the game (as well as the game itself) is heavily based on The Hero's Journey. Many of the tracks are named after the specific steps their corresponding area of the game represents. For example, there's The Call, Threshold, The Road of Trials, Temptations, Descent, Atonement, Nadir, and Apotheosis.

Though the sleep deprivation episode is just...*shivers* no thanks

@CrystalOtaku93 Agree with both. The sleep deprivation felt like a fever dream. But then you remember we got so many episodes like Siege of the North parts 1-2, Zuko Alone, Tales of Ba Sings Se, Lake Laoguy, The Beach, The Puppet Master, The Masters, The Sudden Raiders and so many god tier episodes.

@@Light-at-Dawn Into The Inferno,Sokka's Master,The Fire Bending Masters...

10:16 Ember Island Players!

Indeed, Son Wukong laid the foundations of the hero's journey and all other heroes have followed in search of his awesomeness

Absuletly.

in mother russia!: you do not travel heros journey! heros journey travels you!

That’s so true

Sun Wukong don't abide by no writing rules. Sun Wukong says 'fuck it.'

A fire that size wouldn't have that kind of heat coming out of it.

It'll be hot enough to light any loose papers that fly into it on fire ;_;

Kaiser Williams IF they fly in.

Timothy McLean that sounds good

That sounds amazing!!

That sounds meta I dig it

GIMME! I WANT 5

Timothy McLean I like the sound of that but I have a bias for heroes gone villain. I'd read

Neko Queen Who idea was it for her to come out of the bookcase😄😄😄 😎 defying expectation of her storming in being mad taking her show back over and giving you a much more desirable outcome than you thought 👏 I laughed I enjoyed that plastic bin at the end

So, yeah.

@@rpgincorporated8302 I love how even a Blue Trope Talk still ended with Red saying that.

SHIT U RIGHT

Two years late, but it could have also been a Medicine Journey, hence why she has an elixir and says she has to return with it.

Andres Arancio Yes. Elixir. Yes. Hopefully. Next time- on Trope Talk Zzzzz....

I like this soap reference

The Elixir being the cure for trope misuse is itself a misuse of a McGuffin, there will be no cure for bad tropes, just as planned! Ah ha ha ha ha!

Kristopher Ruiz TWA cult leader is that you?

Wait isn’t that the Macguffin Elixir?! HOW DID SHE GET THAT FROM THE LIBRARY OF LITERACY AND MAGIC FORGED IN POWER CAVERN THAT CAN ONLY BE REACHED THROUGH SECRET PASSAGE WAYS FROM BOOKS? Oh wait-

you also gotta consider the villain's tridecagon 🤷

it actually fits better with Maureen Murdock's Heroine's Journey, seriously i suggest looking it up!

He does now...

Tyler Johnson God I would love that, while I love this video and want Blue to do more trope talks or other typically Red videos I want Red to be the one to complete Adventure To The West.

It'll come out... eventually

I hope so

As long as it gets here eventually she can take as long as she wants.

xenos hive he's all of us tbh

You can actually see a drawing of the monkey king on a note on the right side

ha your right

Hopefully it won’t take a year

@@lunarmaiden6660 *-Laughs in the distance-*

If I remember correctly, that was the novel Loamhedge. It has it's difficulties, but I always liked that one because of the heroic sacrifice you're talking about. It was possibly the most well executed heroic sacrifice I've ever seen, with a bittersweet feel that was almost more sweet than bitter. Those two were lifelong friends, and the fact that they were dying didn't matter to them because they were going to explore what came after together. Also, if you're reading this and haven't experienced the world of Redwall, go try it out. It's a simple, clean series full of riddles, quests, epic battles, and feasts so vividly described that your mouth will water. It may not appeal to everyone, but it might appeal to you. I always loved those books and always will.

Honestly, that’s my biggest beef with people who argue with the Hero’s Journey - it was never meant to actually FORCE all stories to be “the same” as it was pointing out that even wildly different cultures - ones that couldn’t even have theoretically been in contact at the point in history the stories were first codified - still managed to have similar ENOUGH ideas that it has relevance to the universal humanity of us all. It’s worthwhile to note that Joseph Campbell wrote his books in light of the Carl Jung’s theory of Collective Subconscious - the modern day equivalent to the Platonic layer from which we derive all our concepts.

What was this from?

What about: 1:Tom is a man who can rewind time 2: but doesn't remember doing it... 3:read line (1) again.

I friggin' LOVE In Medias Res. I started a story series with the main character falling through the air in a hail of stone and broken glass. My first series starts with the main character already in a prison cell and meeting her rescuer, with a little Tomato in the Mirror action where I don't reveal until chapter 3 that she's a human-turned-dragon. If I can get away with it, I'll start a story in the middle of things just for the heck of it. ^_^

@@TyphinHoofbun I almost always start stories in media res because my brain finds the most interesting part and goes "this is the beginning". I am not overly fond of setup.

It must also have a character. Even if your story is about a place where people don't live, the environment then becomes a character unto itself.

@@tortis6342 While there is value and great rewards to be found in set up, I've always liked a sentence from Ben Croshaw: "Is this the most interesting part of the characters' lives? If not, why aren't you showing us that?"

Twilight character: I should develop character my character over several books, slowly becoming a better person Inner twilight character.: */be a stupid cunt with no character/*

The last straw was how Meyer teased a big battle near the end of Breaking Dawn only to have some rando pop up out of nowhere, explain what a dhampir is, and then have all the conflict and the story come to a grinding halt. I already couldn't stand the Twilight saga, and that abrupt ending felt like a slap in the face. Look, I get it. Some days it's hard to write a decent fight scene. Nine times out of ten, I'm just not feeling it and when I force myself to write a fight scene, it turns to poop. However, even an awkward fight scene is better than a character with no foreshadowing appearing, pulling some deus ex machina, and then leaving to never be significant again. Also, it was well established that the Voltori were out for blood and weren't going to stop for anything to eliminate threats to their way of life, yet a few generic paragraphs from some stranger was enough to convince them? I think the Twilight saga is a must-read for writers simply because it's a shining example of what not to do.

From what I understand of Twilight, the main characters r extremely boring, but the background characters r gorgeously constructed, the story is overall boring cuz the interesting ones r never important to the plot as told in the main narrative.... Keep in mind, I haven't read the books and I'm speaking from the standpoint of having read and liked many of the head cannons about the bg characters

@@MK-dr7dx That’s explained in the movie, when Aro takes Alice’s hand and sees that the battle would ultimately end in his destruction.

I will excuse all manner of bad writing in that series, simply because it blessed me with one of my favorite characters in all of fiction: the Major, Jasper Whitlock.

I think I have just figured out FFXII's character situation. Thank you for that.

Braden Ware A thousand times yes

Yes. Yes. Absolutely yes.

I even see how it would happen. Red and Blue would be walking along chatting about some whatever when they walk through a door and it changes to the Terrible Writing Advice art style. They look around and say that they feel different/weird when the Terrible Writing Advice guy walks in and says something along the lines of "you're in my world now" and the video would be about the trope of the villain toying with the hero and this ultimately leads to their downfall. Lots of monologues, and the Terrible Writing Advice guy would go on about his favorite hero-villain trope, the love triangle, while Red and Blue know there's nothing even resembling this. The video would end with the Terrible Writing Advice guy literally collapsing under the weight of his own ego, and Red and Blue return to their room with the fire side chair.

Of course! Who wouldn’t want to see the two greatest wielders of productive sarcasm on the internet work together? I imagine that Red and JP would probably do a lot of “arguing” back and forth, with Red systematically having to shut down all of the terrible writing advice (TM) that JP is spewing, or JP trying to ruin all of Red’s better advice. Sorta like a game of devil-vs-angel, but with literary analysts rather than artists

Yes

Autumn Campbell same

I relate

Go for it! All of you! Even if it starts with chicken scratch and notes. If you have an idea, that you believe in, write it down. Put every idea down, don’t be afraid to change up things if you realize your characters and plot can be better. Research when you need it, and put your heart into it, but feel free to step outside the box if you need compelling foils. Good luck!

Grass TV I hear ya! I actually was going to open my laptop and finish writing some dialogue, but I HAD to check RU-vid! 😂 well worth it, though!

Also true. (I had to do theology research, and create a backstory/theology for my story, because my friend/beta/idea bouncer was asking questions with answers that did not exist yet, but I realized was going to be essential.) Further reading can give you ideas or perspectives you might not consider.

Oh yeah. I heard about the Heroine's journey yesterday and I found it really great

Glad someone else noticed!

The Last Bookie More like bam-blue-zled XD Am I right?! Sorry

Hayley VandeBerg I- How am I supposed to respond to this? How am I supposed to feel about this?

I dunno, but I made it happen XD sorry to pun-ish you with my wordplay

Fuck I was too late

Hayley VandeBerg THAT WAS A PUN

Yes, Please!

But good job, Blue! : )

And the whole of House of Hades

Obi-Wan Kenobi. I would say Anakin, but he doesn't really count because of...you know...the Mustafar thing...

well, you could if you put Anakin through the hero's journey if you include all six films. I've been experimenting with my writing and I think you could add the hero's journey to the villains and even countries and nations, its an adaptive concept.

Interestingly A New Hope covers all stages of the hero's journey while Force Awakens covers stages 1-4 and Last Jedi covers 5-7

the issues with the new films are with Rey who honestly does not follow the hero's journey or its done so bad I can't tell. I have seen it with Poe and Finn but honestly, everyone else is harder to follow. luke goes through in with each of the original films again and again as, then also as a whole with trilogy as a whole. sorry im a little bitter with the new films.

Anyone else gonna see the Solo movie?

Funny thing is that Campbell conciously ignored everything that didn't fit into his idea when he came up with the whole hero's journey shenanigans. Like, totally ignoring ancient stories that didn't had the elements he liked. I too hate the hero's journey, but for other reasons.

@@zakazany1945 Right! He was looking for a very specific pattern and if you're looking for it there's a good chance some stretches will be made to try and find it in certain stories. It's not necessarily that I have a problem with "oh, this story just happens to follow some points of the hero's journey" but when corporate believes a trope is an honest to god template to make your story and you have to follow each step to a T. My favorite incident working for this company was, "We want a story that follow the beats of Journey to the West, but also follow the Hero's Journey format! Good luck!"

Avatar: The Last Airbender and its sequel series, The Legend of Korra, also had some of that, but each in a slightly different way: Avatar: The Last Airbender's villains were almost always part of the Fire Nation, but the season's primary antagonist changed almost every season, with the Fire Lord ultimately being the overarching big bad. By contrast, The Legend of Korra used a villain every season, but the effect said villain had on the protagonist lasted well into the following season and beyond. Also, season 1 of Legend of Korra had one of the most interesting villains of all time. Amon was really well-done.

+matthew St. Cyr Amon was alright, if only the ending of the season hadn't been rushed to hell and ruined.

Lucas Winsor I don't know; I thought they did pretty well with the ending (at least the parts related to Amon): (spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the show) The reveal of his true backstory and motivations, the showdown, him accidently exposing himself (twice) in moments of complete survival instinct; revealing that; as great a strategist as he was; he could not improvise, the end of his character arc with his brother (I prefer the interpretation that the tear he shed at least in part meant that he knew what his brother was about to blow up the boat and chose not to stop it), and the lingering effect he had, both on the protagonist and on the world. His revolution indirectly brought about the Republic of Nations electing a non-bending president, and he would continue to be something of an effective source of fear for Korra well into season 3. I agree that the rest of the ending was rushed and badly done; if only they hadn't put so much time and effort into that stupid love triangle.

My main problem with Korra Season 1 is that they tried to wrap up all the loose ends in the VERY last episode. It felt forced, ESPECIALLY the fact that Korra regained her bending by the end of the SAME episode in which she lost it. My main understanding of S1 is that it was never initially meant to have a season 2 at all. If it was, then they completely rejected a potentially AMAZING character arc for Korra herself.

At that, we are in agreement. Also, you are correct that the show was never originally meant to have a season 2.

Venus Gillespie haven't heard of it before but i gotta check it out now!

Same. Just rewatched it.

I saw him first! He's mine! ;P

Krymson kyng go fight his gf, I'll fight the winner before they can recover.

a hellenic pagan I love your way of thinking ;)

i love this guy in a bro way, i have a boyfriend that im totally gay for already lol

Lol

Agree.