Reloaded Dice I was soooo exited for that then it didn't run on my computer not good enough. so I get refund but I exited more than 2 hours even thou they told me it was 4 :(
I think the main reason "mother protecting children" stories aren't extremely common is because it's easier to kill the mother offscreen and give the main character of your media the cheapest tragic backstory in history. And I'm not insulting Walt Disney, he's an exception because something about him feeling responsible for the death of his mother or something.
cloudfanlp I'd thank you for elaborating on that for comment readers, but the random capitalization in your comment is driving me insane. How do you capitalize "Broken", but not the words "they died because of"? I honestly want to know how this happened.
cloudfanlp 1. If my advice is so unimportant, why do you feel the need to openly oppose my provision of grammar advice instead of just saying "No, I won'T Change thAt, bYe." or "Huh, guess I'll try to work on it."? 2. Yes, it is a common expression, but I'm not attacking you for using incorrect grammar, I'm just explaining that you're going out of your way to capitalize things incorrectly and people will take you more seriously if you make a subtle change to your habits. In short: You're using a phrase intended for the context of someone attacking you, I'm just trying to help you write better.
cloudfanlp I still honestly do want to understand why you are capitalizing things. It's just such a strange error to me. I understand misspellings or normal bad grammar...I'm just muting this thread instead of wasting more time with this shit.
I think a game with a female ninja would be cool, a lot of ninja's were women because women in ancient japan were considered weak and no threat, so a lot of good ninja's were women who could infiltrate in the court.
That consequently also means not an insignificant amount of them were most likely trained as courtesans. Such as Mochizuki Chiyome(16th century noblewoman) who created a network of female spies. Her recruits consisted mostly of prostitutes and orphans.
Jason Schneijder I think that game exists but it takes place in NY in modern times. It's a stealth game where you play as some chick named Raiden who's girlfriend (progressive I know) keeps calling her to complain.
Red Ninja: End of Honour It's Ps2/Xbox and I forget most of the actual story, but it involves the typical being disgraced and left to die/revenge plot most ninja games do It's pretty romanticized and not extremely factual but it has solid gameplay and story from what I remember of it.
this is true to men as well. "men don't cry" "men are violent" "men are great in combat" "men like blue and\or darker colors" these are all society's expectations, and all men have a different relationship with these expactations.
The problem is in games we either get a stupid, oversexualised or steriotypical women in games or we get an overly smart, overly strong "I don't give a damn about anything" woman.
yes! great case for a mother character then. My mum always said that the most dangerous person in the world is a mother who's children have been threatened, even if she looks meek. that kind of simple, instinctive, quiet strength is often more compelling. why I love Carol in Walking Dead. I once saw a news article where a tiny woman was shown lifting a car 4ft off the ground by its bumper. apparently one of her kids had been hit by it at low speed and got trapped under it alive. they attributed it to pure adrenaline. the act of lifting the car left her bed-ridden for days but kid was fine.
NoNameC68 I find it stupid. Although I also find daisy dukes, exposed stomachs, nose rings and those odd shirts that just flap in the back stupid, if that tells you anything about my relationship with today's culture. I hear nothing but stuff about how women are oversexualized yet people wear stuff like that. Take from that what you will.
the Resident Evil games had women characters to begin with and actually they are really interesting and just about the average woman of today,just like the video said rejects and accepts gender norms,also they do have some advantages over men in games,like holding more guns and having a powerful gun at the start of the game !,hell jill in re1 in 1996 was a good playable character and no body would choose chris cause he starts with a knife and she starts with a gun and a knife and a lockpick !
From my point of view, the problem is that writers tend to default to male characters unless they need to make a character female for some explicit reason, like 'We need a character for the main characters mom' or 'we need a love interest for the main character' or 'the love interest for the character needs a rival or a best friend who should also be female'. Sometimes writers will remember to make background characters female from time to time, but if they're totally in the background and not meaningfully involved in the story, it doesn't really make a difference in terms of representation. This leads to there being relatively few female characters in general, and this leads to there simply not being enough of them for them to represent any sort of believable spectrum of humanity, every one of them winds up representing a huge portion of your 'presentation of women'. If your only woman is stupid, that's your commentary on women. But if you have 10 women, in roughly equally big roles, and one of them is stupid, then it's not a commentary.
This is why Samus and Bayonetta are two of the best female characters. Samus is a badass and you don't know she's a female till the end of the original game. When it's revealed that she's a woman, your opinion of her being a badass hasn't changed, it's just that now you know her gender. Bayonetta differs in that she uses her womanhood as her power, she's not a badass in lieu of being a woman, she's explicitly a badass because she's a woman. The fact that she often uses her own sexuality as a weapon is what may turn some people off though.
mechanoid2k even though historically, a woman using her sexiness as a strategy to get an advantage against male opponents is both Boss as all heck, and just a really good strategy. Look up Kunoichi is you want to learn more, they were the MASTERS of this stuff.
the 1st example is kinda pointless though, because what'd the point of making someone of specific gender, when they are going to act the exact same like the other gender?
turbotrup96 Because... men and women aren’t actually that different and aspects attributed to gender are facets of a person’s personality as influenced by their environment?
Looking at the history of witches, there does appear to be a trend that a witch's power is directly tied to femininity. Given this, it's no surprise that an Umbra Witch like Bayonetta would derive power from her sexuality and womanhood.
One of my favorite quotes about writing characters comes from George R. R. Martin (and, let's face it, the man's pretty excellent at it). "I think the approach that I take, whoever I'm writing about, is to remember our shared humanity, because the truth is, as much as there are differences between us, we are all basically human; we all have the same fundamental drives. It doesn't matter if I'm writing about a man or a woman, or a giant or a dwarf, or a young person or an old person; they have a certain common humanity. The have far more more in common than they have things separate." It's such an utterly simple concept, and it is so painfully overlooked by so many writers. The quote is from the appendix section: George R. R. Martin: On the Craft of Writing, from the book Wonderbook, in case anyone was wondering,
So many people seem to think that making a main character a good person all the time is good, I don't care what their background is, I care about the quality of their character, I need characters with flaws and strengths, goals and fears, who has normal conversations and feels human.
Contradiction is also a good one to throw in there. You would think, stereotypically, that a sporty 'tomboy' type character wouldn't like baking cakes or babysitting, or a gamer girl wouldn't like knitting or watching chick flicks. Stronger contradictions or hypocritical traits also give your character depth, as long as you work out their internal logic and it remains consistent. No one does anything 'for teh randoms,' and usually their actions make perfect sense to them. Or if they don't, explore why they made those choices.
Actually, it's easy to make a good female character: 1) Make a male character. 2) change it to female. That's it. *My sister acts like me in many ways and she is still feminine. The main issue is that men who create female characters stay away from feeling close to the being they shaped. Fantasy is enjoyable, but sometimes, keeping our wet dreams away may be better. Litterally put on the shoes (actual shoes, not high heels), think how a girl would grown up, and realise how the interrests that drive men drive women too. If you are a pervert kind, you can create a pervert female. Yes. If you want ecchi. Give ecchi. It won't hurt, but people did that a lot already. Those «creatures» are so similar to something we know... Humans! Isn't it? Even if natural muscles aren't there (but some women can reck anyone), I shall remember you: Russia prefered to have women as snipers because they thought they were more patient and precise. That's a real life good way to appreciate women as warriors too. But also... and a final word... Give them armor, not a bonner to my person. I have my porn for that. That commentary was way too long... Good video by the way.
Well, English definitely isn't your first language. But I get what you're saying. And I agree. We have to throw away gender roles and stereotypes to get rid of sexism. The only time I've ever written a "girly" character is when I've had to write a character that conforms to societal norms. And yes, women can be perverts as well. Take a look at the anime Panty and Stocking for that (And dear god I'm actually complimenting this series). As much as I don't like the humor in the series I will admit that they portray Panty in the sort of way that a real life Nymphomaniac would act (with a bit of added exaggeration). And as for the armor thing, I agree there as well. I don't mind skimpy armor on a realistic level as long as it's designed to provide flexibility. "Boobplates" would actually end up acting as a sort of spear directed at two of the most vital organs you have.
Vincent Pellemans I can only really say hi my name is in French, that's all I got out of my school french classes. They're mandatory until Grade 10 in Canada.
+Ditto, Master of Disguise Cela m'attriste... Et n'essaye même pas d'utilisé l'outil de traduction de google. Cela serait bien dommage de ne pas faire appel aux peu de mots que tu connais. Entre temps, j'apprends le japonais! Encore du chemin à faire... 私は日本語でいくつかの単語を話します。
To make a good *female* character rather than just a *good character whose sex doesn't matter*, you need to use some difference(s) between men and women. If game developers try to use the biological differences between males and females, it's "sexist because you're sexualising and objectifying women". (Despite men recieving equal treatment) If game developers try to use psychological differences between males and females, it's "sexist because you're stereotyping women". If game developers try to use sociological differences between males and females, it's "sexist because you're normalizing gender roles of men and women which are social constructs". Feminists claim to want more good female characters, but seem to be trying to make it as fucking difficult as they can.
Fernie, everything he said is genuinely true. *A lot* of modern feminists are really making everything about females - and a lot of other things - very _very_ difficult for everyone.
+Ian Colter Tkach ...and Mei and Zarya and Anna see how instead of taking everything as a whole people like you cherry pick the things you want to show just to force your point to be true? That is why modern day feminists are laughed at.
"A mother protecting her children across a war torn country" What, regular escort missions weren't bad enough, now you want escort missions that have you trying to prevent your escortees from putting forks in light sockets and silently wandering off without you? Then you want to make us emotionally attached to them?
i dont think they would have working light sockets in a war torn country man. i thought more along the lines of trying to survive each day as a woman with 3 children and how fierce and fragile mothers can be for their children etc. the concept is realllly interesting for me idk how u cant see that
It doesn't have to be escort mission. Think in the style of "This war of mine", but with a mother with a "dead father figure" trying to have her children survive the war, may or maybe not at the cost of her own life.
Shelter and Shelter 2 accomplishes the goal of protecting and tending for young really well without being just an escort mission(where you play as a mama badger and lynx respectively). And This War of Mine with The Little Ones DLC adds the caring aspect too. Protecting by intervention is part, but in all 3 part of the gameplay involves teaching the young the skills they need and locating resources.
Little known fat: at the turn of the last century, the colors we assign to boys and girls was swapped. Boys were given pink and girls were given blue. Pink was seen as being close to red, the color of action, while blue was the color of the sky and other pretty things.
krim7 yeah, and then pink became popular with girls after one woman very boldly wore pink to an important even to communicate to her male peers that she was their equal! Totally awesome power move there.
@@Munchkin.Of.Pern09 I thought it changed because the Nazi party would mark homosexual men with pink, just like how in america people would salute the president in the way we think as Nazi-like today or how the swastika was a religious symbol for eastern religions before the Nazis infamized it as a symbol of hate
Going off of this, have we really ever had any "true _male_ characters"? I can't remember off the top of my head any game where a male character a) had to struggle with father duties or b) didn't 100% embrace or reject the pressures placed on them by society. I think, in general, game developers have failed on both sides of the gender coin.
+Intrafacial86 Joel from Last of Us struggles with that father-stuff, as an example. He also cries. Normally a big no-no for men. Fire Emblem Awakening has pretty much every character go through both your points (also women, for the record) Also, the video never said that you need to have an apparent struggle. (And the mother-thing was just an example). The struggle about society is not supposed to be that the character walks around with signs and protesting gender-stereotypes. He wants to say, if your female character wears pants and has short hair, while still having feelings and maybe being a fan of cats (I don't know), that's a good start. Some things that fit the archetype, some that don't. It's not an inner war in the head of all your characters.
+TheThoerlChannel Fire Emblem Awakening is probably the worst example you could pull off from the series as Chrom's character never really develops anything from these and thus become unimportant to the game's history, Garcia in FE8 makes for a greater example for this rather than Chrom and he has about a fifth of all the dialogue Chrom has in the game and supports.
ckueckman That may be, but I disagree that that makes it a bad example. I haven't played any other FE-Games. My only point was that almost all characters go through something regarding their social status or expectations as well as parenthood. They do. Point stands. If there are even better examples, great. That doesn't make this one bad.
TheThoerlChannel I would call it bad as none of them really go trough the parenthood of their kids, this means watching them grow up along taking care and teaching them as they do, this is part of the basis of the bond between a parent and their kid. The parent/kid relations in Awakening don't have any of these, the only child that has been born is Lucina and she's basically a new born baby left to a wet nurse, Chrom and all your party members have no real conection to their kids as many have not even been planed and in some cases they even are too young for the kid to exist as can be seen in Ricken's supports.
I agree. I nominate as Shelter to be the best game about the struggle of motherhood to date! I felt like a freaking mama badger... Damn, what does that really say about the industry? lol
That actually sounds like what Mother 3 did- of course the whole idea of Hinawa trying to save her boys from getting killed by the Dinosaur didn't last very long.
I think it not going to work well. As far as I know, when guys play that game he wouldn't care about baby but focus on shooting around the enemies. In this case, there is no difference between male protagonist and female one. Yet another post-apocalyptic FPS. If women play those game they expect something like "Lemmings" game. Something more focused on leading and guiding the children. Maybe this is prejudice but I think male player tends to interest in destruction and exploration but female players prefer storytelling and atmosphere. Maybe they don't even care about gender of protagonist (unless she/he is feminist or something). This is the reason why hard to develop "True Female Characters". Because both male and female players don't care about it.
Piyo Hoge No, I would definitely care about the babies. Men, as far as I know, are pressured to be the providers, the protectors of the family. Besides, nobody likes a dead baby :(
I don't wanna talk about it too deeply because I don't want to get called out but I personally liked the idea that games can show that hey not all girls like pink or not all girls are girly but I'm starting to notice a trend that most of main female characters are the badass shoot first ask questions later type of girls which is fine but now it seems like we're overdoing it.were handholding this so much that it's becoming a new norm.
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. It's as if a female character can only be a pink princess or a badass assassin, and not another type of person. There isn't enough variation in personality.
+Alexander Walsh Yep. One of the worst developments in female characterization is the phrase "not like other girls," which assumes the character is special/better for that reason. All it is is more sexism and (scarily) that view is probably held by the character as well.
I'd say Ellie in The Last of Us is one of the best examples of a good female character in a videogame. Clementine in The Walking Dead as well, especially when she becomes a more fleshed out character in the 2nd game. Funny that they're both zombie apocalypse games, but they're the best that come to mind.
I'd say The Last of Us is a good example. For the majority of scenes perhaps the fact Ellie is female isn't that relevant, following their criteria of "if this character was a different gender, would it change anything?". However, I would have said that the scene where Ellie is captured by David addressing some of these issues well, like the rape/sexual assault of a minor. It's a powerful scene and the Ellie's responses to it are dealt with very well I think.
+lexzeyfercronus No at BEST chaotic Neutral in fact almost all of the secondary characters are neutral in borderlands 2. they just HAPPEN to be pissed off at the bad guy. there are exceptions though, like Roland for example, who somewhat strived to be good. I haven't played 1 or the pre-sequel though so I don't know about the characters involved there.
thatguydownthestreat Well,Borderlands 1 dosnt develop the main characters so you are not missing much. The presequel explains some stuff but i cant say for sure,havent played it.
Red Pacifist Atheists and egalitarians are prone to turning off those who should be listening to them because of their rabidness. It is hard to show how unknowing some people are if you sound just as bigoted.
I think that the reason so many female characters are written poorly is because the writers view them as a woman first and foremost rather than a human. It's as if they think being female is a defining trait in its own right, which obviously it isn't. Write a character rather than a gender - if they're a good character then it shouldn't matter whether or not they're male or female. It would be interesting to see the pressures of gender roles explored in gaming, but I don't think the industry is ready for it yet, at least not with male game designers. Also, I wish I hadn't read the comments on this videos. Some people have really twisted views on gender.
Why do all female characters that are labeled as progressive have to be heavily involved with society and gender roles? Why is it that we can't have strong female characters without them being related to these topics? Just a thought.
+tSp289 They should just create all of their characters, then sort those out that are dependent of and defined by their gender (there is nothing wrong with that, for the record, some characters need a fitting gender to work, no problem) And then take the rest and just flip a coin for everyone XD
+tSp289 This misses the point. They mention that there are specific female issues which can be explored. While there are characters which are great regardless of gender, there are also cases where the gender is relevant to who the character is, either in the social expectations they face or stuff like motherhood.
Erik Nielsen Social expectations depend entirely on the setting, and as a writer you are in control of the setting and therefore the expectations. In my experience, there are very few actual differences between men and women that are not entirely defined by our expectations and assumptions. The idea of a 'strong female character' assumes weakness in other female characters, so in its own small way it propagates the problem.
+Erik Nielsen CAN BE explored, not necessarily have to be explored. In fact if it contributes nothing to the story it shouldn't be included, and it's not going to contribute to the story unless there are more people who want to make those sorts of stories. Currently there aren't, and that's not a problem, it's just not important.
Just saying to anyone watching this video now, it's coming up on 2 years old, and we HAVE seen some excellent female characters show up since then: the NEW Lara Croft pulls it off nicely for most of the game, any female character from the walking dead make a perfect match (especially Clementine), and we tend to see much fewer "guys with boobs" in games these days. The real push to make any "true" character would be to address that character with any discriminating trait as normal to the player and ask them to make choices in that character's place, thereby creating meaningful immersion in the character. The issues of that character's traits should still be brought up in the decisions they are forced to make, but not in a way that would alienate them for who they are, or more importantly, who the player THINKS they are.
People, do the Thumbs Up thing to this comment ^ so that it stays at the top of the stack. For my own part, I'm surprised they didn't mention Chell anywhere in that video, she's pretty widely credited as being one of the most normal-human-being female video game characters in living memory.
2andaHalfStooges I would also like to point a thumbs up to the guys at Might and Delight for making Shelter, a game about a mother badger as she crosses the open wilds with her four children searching for food, encountering dangers from hawks to floods to ridiculously strong wing gusts. It may have not captured the hearts of critics, but it taps in to the struggle of a mother like no other game has so far been capable of doing. This is exactly what was being discussed at 2:20.
***** I mean characters that are essentially male in their mannerisms, the way they act, socialize, converse (or have a lack thereof), or their gender role. This shows up a lot in "combat" games where it's a male character in the context of the story, just with a female body and sometimes voice filling the role. A guy with a pair of boobs strapped on.
the "man with boobs character" is a result of feminism you put a stereotypical male power fantasy character in a female body because "women are as good as men, you sexist pig", the result is an anoying preachy and unrealistic character wich was made to prove a point (in the worst way).
***** I guess this video's more about taking advantage of the inherent female characteristics part, but I think the "protagonist is a woman, so what" is just it. The designers could have just as easily made the protagonist a dude on HGH or a blonde in a bathing suit, but they didn't, and I think the Portal games turned out a lot better for it.
For the record, the opposite or a cardboard cutout of a female character who likes pinks and nurtures and is demure is not a badass with no emotions who blows things up and castrates the men around her for fun. Both extremes are boring and unbelievable. (Not to say that's what you suggested was a good female character, just that it seems to be what devs think of when they decide they want to write a 'strong female character'.)
Pearl Carol Because you'd only be trading one single-dimensional character for another. You can create realistic female characters using either of these extremes as a template, the secret is depth. You can have a female, vindictive, murderous hellion as your protagonist, but with no backstory or development beyond that, that's all she is.
CallMeCactusSok That was... kind of exactly my point. Writers (of all media, not just games) seem to be under the impression that the opposite of a blank slate, generic female character is an angry, loud woman who has no emotions and probably hates men. The truth of the matter is, a flat caricature is still a flat caricature, even if you paint a different face on her.
Pearl Carol Yes, I was agreeing with you. Depth can add realism to an initially absurd character. Both Pink Girl and Castration Woman can be realistic given enough other characteristics.
"Trying to protect her children while crossing a war torn country" No. NO. That sounds a lot better on paper but by god, that would be way too likely a game that is just one giant painful escort mission! And escort missions suck, they're so hard to get right!
Solarius The Blaziken don't think of it as an escort mission game, with your kids being npcs with health bars, think of an game on the Beyond two souls style, with multyple ends and choices, with an pretty detailed story and quick time events done right, like quantic dream and telltale do.
Solarius The Blaziken it could work if you only had to look after one baby, where you must carry him/her with both hands and must find a safe place to put down/hide them to defend yourself through combat. Throw in a calming the crying baby mechanic and you have the base for an interesting stealth game
Doesn't have to be an escort mission. Could just involve you going out and getting what you and your kid need to survive while the kid is safe somewhere. Example: Dead Rising 2: This game is about a father trying to protect his kid during a Zombie outbreak. I immediately thought of this game when he said that concept.
You know, a really accurate female character would upset male gamers I think. Imagine having (insert semi plot-centric first person shooter game series here) with one of the main playables as a lady, and a cutscene after a big fight where one of the characters asks how she's doing. A flippant "I'm fine, but I think my underwire snapped in mid combat. The damn thing's stabbing me in the boob." wouldn't be as well recieved... people would accuse that line of being written for sex appeal. Nope - it's just a female anatomy issue that also touches on the societal issue of bra construction for women... as well as a personal comfort thing (and the risk with said comfort choice)
I think it would upset some guys, they would feel weird to face "girl problems". I mean, just imagine guys playing as a girl having to find tampons because she's on her period in a game, or being slower because she's having uterus pain, lol. The same way, we could immagine a game where you are segregated for your race or whatever reason, but not everyone would want to play it. Although when you think about it, those are things that wouldn't be indispensable to making a game interesting or a true good character (female or not, luckly), so we don't really need a completely accurate character. Because let's face it, if characters where accurate to reality they wouldn't be able to do half the stuff they do on games.
88rainbowmilkshake88 Well why would we code in the whole need to respond to menstrual cycles and crap when we never code in characters taking a crap, peeing, or vomiting at the sight of disemboweled corpses? Unless it's a custcene. You're targeting a woman character for her biology - not her behaviors. Besides - if the issues a guy would face (ie character convulsing in pain/unable to move 'cause he got hit in the crotch, growing a crazy mountain-man beard because you can't shave) aren't addressed, why should the gender specific biology issues be addressed for women?
i think the braw line would be great; funny and humanizing. but it would be pretty silly for a woman soldier to not simply wear a sports braw or even tape them up like athletes do (look it up), and to take a birth control that delays mensuration. so yah, why bother coding it, since it would be ridiculous for it to ever happen to any female soldier bad ass enough to be the type of person you pretend to be in an fps.
Mikalhvi Well i thought of that because it's the only thing in witch females are different than males that is not created by society. Because society is different and people are very different, it's harder to classify something as "woman's behavior", and thought that's what you meant for a really accurate female.But i got your point on your first comment. Now, come to think of it, i call recall games where you can pee and interact with crap (duke nukem) and games where the kind of cutscenes you described happen. Female anatomy problems would be new to me, but then again, i'm a female and i hate getting my period. I don't want to revive it on a videogame. It was just a funny thought.
starbuckwhy It wouldn't be ridiculous...i mean, there's nothing you can do about it. It's a natural thing. Calling it ridiculous makes it seem like a weakness or a punishment or something (i know it does get in the way of combat and walking). But a girl should not have to be ashamed of this. Birth control and sports bras are new technologies. What about AU games set in medieval time?
+Tyboroth True - but they're about animals. You can't really expect girls to be happy with "look, here's some excellent female characters and the story is about the trials of motherhood" and show them a badger and a lynx. Shelter and Shelter 2 are good games about motherhood and survival but from a non-humanoid perspective and so I don't think they can be counted on as examples...
+Loulybob Yeah, but I don't think he was saying that you should be happy with it. I wanted to recommend these games myself - not because it's all we need, but because people craving those types of themes in video games might get some of that from Shelter and Shelter 2.
***** I never said I wanted a realistic motherhood experience. Having characters that have children/are expecting children and having to deal with the trials of that (or even just alluding to these trials) is enough. P.s. Going "if you want a realistic experience then go do it in real life" is a poor argument. "If you want a realistic FPS war game, join the army in real life!", "If you want a realistic sports sim - go play the sport in real life!". Video games are video games and we enjoy them for different reasons.
***** I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those things IRL either. I'm just saying it's not a reason to not have a video game about those experiences. Video games are video games and real life is real life and arguments that mix between the two are bad (hence your argument on not needing games that have motherhood as a theme/story because people can just go have kids in real life being flawed)
+Tyboroth I was thinking that the entire time. "We've never had games that explore motherhood fertility..." Yeah, Shelter 1 and 2. "There's never been a game exploring motherhood or putting the player in a mother type role" Shelter! "Although I will contend that a game where you play a mother who sacrifices herself for her children can really be the first one to break you down and cry." SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A great character is written as a character first without thinking of them as being female first. If you write them as female first you either get a stereotype or an ice queen...both don't make for a good character and especially the last one I hate the most. The 90s. loved to do these ice queens that are tough but with a soft core...that's not how all women of this world work...maybe a handful. I got no really good, female character on my mind currently but if I were to pick one I would have a hard time coming up with one. The writting in gaming is still in the 90s. in that retrospective.
I agree. I think you'll have to look at movies and TV series to actually find well-written female characters. In terms of character gender, you should only decide on it based on, as said, the character clashing with the norms within their society, or because of integrating one of those hard-to-tackle biological differences into the story. I can't see any other reason why you should choose one gender over the other. Of course, in that case, you'll end up with a lot of characters who are just arbitrarily woman or man, and the question is if that will turn out even better. Perhaps one should reserve the detailed writing only for the main characters and let the side characters be more stylistic and stereotypical, to contrast that one good character... Hm.
You're right, women being written as stereotypes does exist within many different forms of media. However, I don't think this means it should be struck from the creation process, only that there should be a push to make the character just as complex, interesting, and flawed as we do male characters. We often think of gender when we first establish a character, because being a man or a woman can make drastically different reactions or stories in games. I'm interested to see what new characters will come from that.
Kat Harnois That is EXACTLY what I mean with "A great character is written as a character first without thinking of them as being female first.". There are some examples in TV shows or some movies but games suprisingly lack that I'd also love to see much much more good characters in games either gender. Male characters are usually a stereotype too: Strong, in controll, leaders and so on. Some of us(like me) are usually not like that(I for example would suck as a leader)...Totally agree with you, would love to see more interesting characters but I doubt we will be seeing any quickly. We need the everyman as well as good, believeable female characters and not just sterotypes like the ice queen, the male hero, the reward after an adventure(*cough*Princess Peach*cough) or the shameless/obvious villain that does evil cuz of muhahaha. Fun thing(and very BAD stereotype): ever noticed that the princess is always young, beautiful and then there is an evil queen? It's always queens thinking about evil, female villains.
Oh! What I had gotten from it is that thinking of a character as a man or woman thereby ensures you think of them in the stereotypes you think of men or women. I think that men and women have their own social pressures that they can embrace or reject in complex and very human ways. I think that gender can still be important because if we don't think it it, we can end up writing what feels comfortable which, as an industry tends to be the "strong and emotionless white heterosexual male". I want to see us grow as a medium and I'm excited or the possibilities. I think we're agreeing on the message, just quibbling over whether gender = stereotypes or not.
What you described is exactly how bad female characters get written who get accused of being a man-in-diguise. Basically you're writing a gender-neutral character (or you're just writing a male character and slapping a female-sticker on his forehead) and not a female one. Couple this with action-games/movies and voilá, you have the male-in-disguise. If you want to make a good female character, you need to take things that define HER aswell as taking things that define her as a woman, and turn them into something you'd want to make a game about.
Just found this channel today and its freakin awesome, never crossed my mind that games had to be thought about in this level of depth for them to be conceived and also be good when released, insta-subscribe
This is strange. Even though you show that you're aware of good examples of good female characters in epic narratives, you act as though those don't count. What I mean is that while you were talking, I was thinking of characters like Final Fantasy X's Yuna (and come to think of it, Lulu, too, whom we were introduced to as Yuna's surrogate mother/older sister figure, before she later became an actual mother) and the female characters in Tales of Symphonia (especially Sheena and Raine), only for you to eventually give a nod towards Yuna having met your criteria. Also, female characters often do have examples of more dexterity and pain tolerance. It's very common for female characters to have better speed (not just outright speed, but specifically wind-up and cool-downs between attacks for combo'ing), but also an actual dexterity stat that, in video games, aids in things like archery, or dagger use (even though realistic archery is more about strength). In Resident Evil 4's Mercenary mode, the female character reloads faster than the others in the mode (they have static stats in this mode) and in RE2, Jill is the "Master of Unlocking" (she's a lock-picking ace) and can handle more items. Magic is sometimes tied to dexterity stats, which female characters are also usually better at. As for pain tolerance, it's almost as common to have a tank-y spell-casting female character as it is to have a squishy spell-casting female character, even though there aren't many tank-y spell-casting male characters. This even shows up in games like Pokemon, where the female Miltank is… a tank, whereas her male counterpart, Tauros, is not as pain-tolerant. Nidoqueen does this as well, when compared to Nidoking, as do their earlier forms. In Squaresoft games, it's common for female characters to get better equipment that lets them be more harm-tolerant.
*Even though you show that you're aware of good examples of good female characters in epic narratives, you act as though those don't count.* Not sure where you think they indicated that these characters don't count. I don't recall them anywhere in the video claiming that we have no good female characters at all, or claiming that the good examples don't count. Can you explain to me, where you see this?
+The Cloud You have a point, they flip-flop between speaking in absolutes and noting that some things are rarely done, but they say confusing things such as, "… we've been waiting for the industry to provide us with a good, topical example of a well-done female character, but unfortunately, nothing really helpful has come out…" and "… we've yet to see a video game that really addresses themes of motherhood, fertility or other childbearing issues… " I guess my point was that the scrip of this video has inconsistent, or misleading wording.
Well, they did mention topical, so I guess it depends on what games came out in the months leading up to the making/release of this video. But yeah, they didn't really need to focus on "current" examples. There are plenty of good female characters to talk about.
Wow, I really needed this as a writer. I always thought that the most important thing I should do with my female characters is make sure their gender is just a small part of their character, however maybe looking at how they react and reject society could be awesome too. I should probably do the same for my male characters. In fact, where the hell did I put my notebook this is all golden. Also, if any of my fellow writers are looking for something that does what they describe in this video here right, then check out the Parasol Protectorate book series. It addresses some of the mentioned factors well in my opinion.
Me too! Im making my own comic series and even though i wasnt going to make my main female character stereotypical, I couldnt find that special... thing. Now that i know about those societal pressure stuff, im gonna use that. Thanks Extra Credit!
I similarly needed this. I was struggling with precisely what distinguishes the difference between well written male and female characters. This overview highlighted some of the key things that really define how gender plays a role in both their persona and their actions. After a marathon session of writing I fundamentally changed the way that the female character in my current work both accepts and rejects the pressures of her society in a way that makes the character feel so much more human. This video greatly enriched the character and inspired a much stronger plot line and so you have my thanks Extra Credits.
This reminded me that I really liked Lara Croft more in the older Tomb Raider games. No, not because she had large breasts, but because she had a more pronounced personality, something a lot of modern entries in old video game series seems to have forgotten. I much prefer the version of Lara Croft that was confident, cocky, and just straight badass, compared to the new Lara Croft which is supposedly more realistic. By the way, loved the idea of a game where you play as a mother trying to get her kids out of a war-torn country. Could make for a great stealth game where you have to sneak with your kids out of the country while avoiding hostile soldiers or something like that.
Late to this, but I'll comment anyway. The best way to make a female character in a game is to have a character where the gender is never called into question and just doesn't become a big deal at all. Characters like Samus Aran, and Redfield are great at this because it doesn't matter what the gender is, the character takes care of business. The reason that people assumed that Samus was a guy the first play through back in the day wasn't because she was a truly awesome fighter or anything, it was because we just don't expect most game characters to be female. Does it take away from the game that she is? No, but it doesn't add anything to the game either. So when making a good female character just make a great game and worry about the gender of the character later, because in the end, the game is about the game play not the game character.
Wow this video is great, I really think Extra Credits is aimed towards a more intelligent audience. Let's see what good points the community can ma- nope.
I think one thing that could put you on the path towards a good and relatable female character is this: have a story not based on action in general, and violence in particular. Let's step away from games and into movies for a moment. For decades we've voiced and heard the complaints: all women are just damsels in distress. What we really needed were strong female characters. So Hollywood did something about it. They started writing women who kill dudes better than any man, and usually rub their faces in it too. Surprisingly, this did not go over as well as expected. Nowadays these roles are often called "strong female characters" (with quotation marks) or even men with boobs. Why did that happen? Possibly because the whole being a violent ass-kicker thing is just, on average, more of a male fantasy. If a typical woman has heard one too many stories about break ins and hears a noise while she's alone in the house she might start thinking "what would I do in such a situation?" Things that cross her mind are probably locking herself in a room, calling the cops, maybe pretending to sleep or sneaking out past the burglar. The typical man's thoughts would go pretty straight towards "but do I take the baseball bat, or the lighter-deodorant combo?" This is not true for all men and all women under all circumstances, but it is at least one thing that can help in putting down good female characters. Think of Twilight. Yes, it's a painfully stupid series, but it attracted loads of female fans, and not just for the pretty boys. Bella, as shallow and weird as she is, is at least a distinctly female character, relatable to the audience. She's a damsel about half the time, but she also has plot of her own. But the best current example is probably Frozen. In any other movie Else would have pointed to that cliff face she wanted to climb and have scaled it easily, leaving reindeer-guy stumped, no matter that she was a sheltered princess and he was a professional mountaineer. Still she is not a damsel, at all. She solves all of the major situations in the movie with feelings and talking and delegating and even running away, basically anything but being an action hero. On one hand it's a brilliant movie making effort, on the other it's kind of weird it took us so long. So, a non-violent and generally maybe kind of action-light character, in a story where any other skill a person could have becomes the deciding factor. That seems a step towards good female characters.
It's called make the girl the Fighter and Monk and make the men the White Mage, Black Mage and Thief. I'm doing this for an RPG, and my playtesters instantly assume: "Xavier used Attack! 150 Dmg!" "Mai used Fire! -6 Dmg!" Rather than remember "Xavier used attack: 150 Dmg!" "Mai used attack: 250 Dmg!" SOOOOOOOO Many playtesters got a game over because of this. Heh.
I disagree about Samus being a great female character namely because she isn't feminine in any way (outside of Other: M). For instance if you didn't know she was female she could be assumed to be male. Hence the "big reveal" after beating the original Metroid and the fact that the instruction manual referred to Samus as a he. But your criteria is solid, explain why they conform/clash with gender roles will really make a solid character. I don't think that's mutually exclusive to women either. Challenging gender roles (in both accepting and rejecting) makes every character have more depth.
I don't doubt that, but I suppose I don't understand how Samus Aran is feminine by Japanese standards or any other standards. From the Western view Samus has only traits we assign to the male gender binary.
Elí Luscesforo Just giving my thoughts. Even though they mentioned it as well, I just had to get it out of my system. I just really dislike characters that are just there to pander to the feminazi crowd.
Elí Luscesforo Just giving my thoughts. Even though they mentioned it as well, I just had to get it out of my system. I just really dislike characters that are just there to pander to the feminazi crowd.
But being male or female will drastically change the character. whether how they are raised in the given society to their natural biological differences. women tend to think more emotionally and men tend to think more logically which helps each gender accomplish given roles in nature. women being good at keeping a family mindset well and men being good at keeping a family safe. These traits make for very different personalities.
Agent. ( -_-) That's mostly stereotypes. I doubt the personality would change if two people, one boy and one girl, were raised in the exact same enviroment the exact same way with no stereotyoes enforced upon them like for example barbies are for girls and cars are for boys. If that happened I doubt there would be any difference since I haven't heard of any scientific evidence proving that personalities are formed by gender without outside influence.
tl;dr "If you want to create a truly great female character, you have to either be willing to brave those few issues which are truly unique to the feminine half of our species, or you have to give us a human being responding to ordinary societal pressures" (vis-a-vis females)
I think my romantic life would go a lot smoother if we weren't constrained by gender norms. Inspite of everything, as a guy, I'm still expected to be the one who initiates the "Romance", to make the first move, ask them out, get their number, arrange the first date, to make compromises, to make the relationship "Romantic". Because that's something that's been encoded into us by society. That "Romance" is something that a guy does for a girl to proves he is worthy of having her and she gives herself to him as a reward. Which, to me, devalues both genders. Because in romance stories, Romantic Gestures are expected of the male. And when we see the opposite, people expect that it is an uneven, unhappy relationship, "Oh, she's asking the guy out - she's proposing to the guy - she makes big romantic gestures, must mean that she's desperate/clingy/sad and he has no balls".
As long as the source follows its tone, I'm fine with sexualization of characters. For example: Samus wearing a tight, revealing suit is FINE because it makes sense lore-wise for her to wear tight clothing when she is in an exosuit for the majority of the time. Baggy clothing would get uncomfortable quick. However, I find it immersion-breaking for her to wear high-heels because it doesn't make any sense in terms of usability and utility.
that was my thinking on the heels controversy as well. not that it was stereotypical, but because it makes no sense. high heels are loud and i heard they are difficult to walk in, so why would samus wear them on a job like hers?
Great examples of GOOD female characters. Samus (with the exception of Other M), and Ripley from Alien/Aliens (who amusingly enough was the inspiration for Samus). Their gender doesn't define them. Btw, Ripley was put in a mother-like role in Aliens (even though the girl in question wasn't her biological child).
2:38 Actually, there is one game that explores motherhood as a theme and does it quite well: Beyond Good And Evil. You see, Jade runs an orphanage and is trying to help out the children in it.
"The struggle of a mother trying to protect her children while crossing a war-torn country." ....so basically, a giant escort mission for a game? No. NO. NO! NNNOOO!!!!!! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What if there was a zombie apocalypse and she had to escort a kid with an immunity through a war-torn country? Oh wait, that's the last of us, only with a father-figure instead of a mother...
You know what's funny? I was actually having a hard time trying to think of particularly moving or memorable MALE character, ironically enough. I actually find female characters are more significant just by their rarity. Lara Croft, Samus, Jade, Alyx, SHODAN, the girls from Dead Or Alive and Resident Evil... And, in the male column... Master Chief, Kratos, Solid Snake, and... Mario. And out of all of these characters, Solid Snake is the only one with a three-dimensional personality, and even then, that's fucking stretching it. Master Chief is... Master Chief, Kratos is angry for stupid reasons, and Mario is... Mario. Oh, and Duke Nukem. And don't let this fol you. I play the fuck out of video games. I barely remember the names of the protagonists from most of them. Just a small sample of me collection: Red Faction Guerrilla, RAGE, Bioshock, several Call of Duties my sister left me, several Assasin's Creed games (I do at least remember Edward Kenway from 4). I think games have sorta given the shaft, as it were, to both men and women. The women are for the fanservice and the men are just boring as fuck.
It's strange how a lot of the female playable characters we have are just there so the female players won't feel "left out", often being pink and wearing a skirt or a dress- take pretty much any game with only 1 choice of a female character out of a few, I guarantee they'll be pink, wear female clothes, both or something else commonly considered feminine. While non playable female characters have a reputation of being a plot/player driver, without any other characterisation (peach, zelda. I can't name that many, I generally don't play those kind of games, but I've seen it a lot before).how did this influence even come about? Was it back when games were first made as 'toys for boys'? Or simply because of the past belief/essence of 'man = hero, women = victim'?
Combinations. Though to the larger point with what Nintendo did and did right is they didn't make gaming as a "Toys for Boys" but as Games built on the basis of being just really great games. As for stories that could be played, one did back when have a bit of a limited palette of sorts of what one could do and get away with doing for a start. And ironically only for it that we could get Samus Aran as the end-all hunter she and as a 'she' could be... yet still with some degree of sex appeal thrown in to make sure people stayed tuned after. Good things times change, eh? XD But yeah, maybe as the Scales & Palette's of the Sex, Gender, Preferences, and Masculine/Feminine sorts get better fleshed out and brought into the norm of society as 'just a thing', we can hope to see more dynamic & better overall characterization for casts to include Male & Female leads overall. ^_^
ZGuy0fSci Great comment! The thing is female colours are limited to pink and purple in the games that I'm talking about, while the male colours are anything but pink and purple.
Julia Binarystar at least with Heavy Armor & Tanks, "Gender Politics" have no place nor matter. ^_< * I'm really wanting to get back into WoT if not for the whole "WG -> Communists" thing, but at the least Armored Warfare is on its way. ^-^ You do much gaming?
Why are you criticizing it if you don't play these sort of games? Modern games in the RPG genre, especially the western ones where the story doesn't demand a specific protagonist, let you make your own character. Bioware's stuff is a good example, but the Elder Scrolls games have it, too, and progressive views on things like homosexuality (by having it a complete and utter non-issue) Can you name any examples of games made within the last 5 years to support your claims?
Fathers can't protect their little girls? Can't teach them how to protect themselves? What the fuck, man. If anything, a great mother figure would be The Boss from MGS3.
I feel I should mention the game Shelter. Since this video came out, a game available on GOG has come out where you play a mother badger who must guide and protect her young. It has a sequel I haven't looked in to, but I hear a lot of good things about these games. If you want to experience motherhood in gaming, play Shelter. Apparently it will make you feel things. Plus... badgers. Insert Weebl joke here.
indeed... I want my spears back... and different pauldrons... and gauntlets... and no full-face helmets for the "animal" races... and no boots... and a robe over my armour.... man, they changed alot...
Yeah, I've liked Anna as my personal favorite character in the Epic Battle Fantasy series mostly because of her adorable human experiences and personality. Especially her dialogues with Matt and Lance. Honestly, she's on par with my top favorite Touhou characters such as Sanae and Koishi.
I feel like Lara croft has always been a great female character especially in the legend, anniversary, and underworld games. She was really cool and was very confident in herself but also can have some anger issues when it comes to her mother.
Zarya from Overwatch. She is badass incarnate, and an almost champion weightlifter. She would've become a champion, had she decided to continue weightlifting rather than drop everything and take up arms in defense of her country. And boy did she take up arms with a gun that houses it's own black hole! She ripped it off of an AFV in the heat of battle and has held onto ever since, mind you, the gun itself is too heavy for an average soldier to wield unassisted.
Good rule of thumb for making characters in any medium: Unless their gender, race, sexuality, etc. Directly plays into the story (which I don't recommend, it's very hard to do well), don't start by choosing what their traits are. Make a basic character outline first before choosing their gender or sexuality.
sMystRyn That's the point. She's a female but there's absolutely no emphasis on it. She's just another human being who happens to be of the female sex. Isn't that what true gender equality is about - when gender just doesn't matter anymore? I know it doesn't exactly fit the video, but I felt like (perhaps irrationally) she should have been mentioned anyways.
***** Then again, Valve main characters often don't have any personality to them either. They seem to be less than characters and more of a blank slate to put yourself in.
Yeah, they do have a bit of a backstory. From what I know about it though, I don't think it really says much about who they are. Then again, I don't know everything about the characters so maybe there is something that does a bit.
Props to you guys for showing Leliana from the Dragon Age series at 3:26! I always thought of her as a great example of a "True Female", because while she can be a fierce warrior and offers a bit of Fanservice, she also enjoys some naturally girly things like fonding over cute animals, gossiping and even shoe shopping. This is one case where her gender makes up parts of her identity, as well as her actions throughout the Story!
Detros It's a game of protecting your babies. The trailer shows that they can be eaten. It's not a spoiler to say "it sucks when a koopa gets you in mario."
***** I'm not an idiot. I know nothing about the game so i'm left to believe it was a story rather than gameplay element.Granted I probably should have done a little research before writing a comment, so i'm sorry if i offended anyone with my "stupidity"
I'm viewing this video for the third or fourth time and I love the message, but it got me thinking - why should we consider 'taking care of children' as inherently feminine? Some great games explored the idea of fatherhood and of men taking care of children in desperate situations - which also means it would be nice to see women in this kind of narrative, since representation matters - and it didn't make them less masculine for it (just look at The Walking Dead by Telltale).
Ellen Ripley is the ultimate female protagonist in media. After she is robbed of her motherhood, she fights to survive and then uses her protective maternal instincts to overcome incredible odds. She struggles against the company's insane risk-taking, showing how women are the voice of caution. The voice which tempers the male drive to take risks and face danger. The male mind seeks personal accomplishment, discovery, individual greatness, and to overcome difficult challenges. Hence all the male CEOs, gamblers, homeless people, and suicides. The female mind has more caution and better judgment, especially in terms of cause & effect. Hence women in superstitious cultures are usually the fortune tellers and mystics. Hence wives always reigning in their husbands from going out to party or do risky things. So for a female action character, I'm more inclined to see a woman who is being put in a dangerous situation, and using her exceptional judgment to outmaneuver and overcome the threats. She would know what fights to pick, and which to avoid. The exception is when she's protecting those close to her, at which point she's like a badger on PCP. Maybe after overcoming such danger, and realizing she has the aptitude for it, she would get a taste for the action hero lifestyle.
well made post. i may be assuming things, but considering the last name, is she the protagonist from alien? "The male mind seeks personal accomplishment, discovery, individual greatness, and to overcome difficult challenges." i took a good look at that part to see if i reflect it in any way and almost all of it can be seen in the way i play games. i may be overthinking it, but i found it interesting anyway personal accomplishment: i am a completionist in games by nature and prefer games where i can progress somehow, such as a level up feature or campaign/ranking mode discovery: i tend to avoid spoilers for games i intend to play or am currently playing as well as creating my own tactics when playing blind. i do have a limit due to my impatience, but mostly like figuring things out on my own individual greatness: i like the feeling of dominating in a game. that is why i have at times considered games like dynasty warriors, but fighting games and shooters have also been adorning my library for some time, simply because of the impact a single person can make in a match overcoming challenges: as i grew older i have preferred a higher difficulty in games. even when i play games casually i still choose a difficulty that requires effort, otherwise i get quickly bored
A good true female character: Frigga. Anyone that recognizes the name most likely knows exactly what I'm referring to. I know she's a comic/movie character and not a video game character, but the method of fleshing out characters in all of the above is more or less the same.
Personally, in at least 1 world setting that I'd like to design, I'd very much like to explore what a hypothetical society would be like, where gender roles are vastly different from what we, as members of a predominantly patriarchal society, are used to, when that society is made predominantly matriarchal due to sex-selective population control mechanisms that limit how many male children each family can afford to raise, but not do so for females, all while encouraging some population growth (as the Soviet Union did through tax cuts for married couples that have children). Imagine what society would be like if a "One Son Policy" (like China's One Child Policy, only applying towards male children only) is being enforced in it. (I'd imagine that polygyny would need to be legalized to reduce unrest from women fighting eachother over marrying certain men.)
Like I said, I'd imagine that polygyny would need to be legalized in such a matriarchal society. Otherwise, the excess women would cause unrest by fighting over the limited number of men, or be forced to marry outside of their society. If polygyny were legalized, then that'd at least mean that most of the women would be forced to share a husband instead of fighting over one. I'd imagine that life would be similar to living in a Middle Eastern harem, with the husband under an obligation to provide for each of his wives, lest they leave him for another husband. However, since the women would be dominant in a matriarchal society that allows polygyny, they would probably take on many of the gender roles that are typical of males in our predominantly patriarchal societies, such as raising money to feed their families, thus freeing up alot of responsibility from the husband, whom would probably be expected to take on the role of housewife, or househusband if you will. This would ensure that such an arrangement would be viable even for the lower classes of society. Of course, child-bearing would still be exclusive to the women.
Thinking about female characters that neither accept nor reject societal expectations. Ellie, from the last of us, comes to mind. She continuously surprises Joel with how she takes matters into her own hands, and exceeds his expectations. For example she knows her way around a gun, she knows how to pop a clutch. On the other hand, there are several instances where she seems a bit weak without Joel's help or guidance. Like the fact that she cannot swim.
I feel Ellie's true character development takes place toward the end of the game, where she sees the giraffes, and runs off, ecstatic. It shows not a survivor hardened by the fungapocalypse to become a stone cold killer, nor does it show a fearful little girl that needs Joel's help to survive. It shows, an inquisitive, slightly whimsical, girl entering adulthood; Who, if it weren't for the rise of the shroom-people, could've grown up in a happy, loving family. In this way, we receive a TRUE female character in the fact that her character, her interests, her personality can not be completely described by words alone.
I have been noticing lately that most games that have a cardboard cutout heroine in skimpy clothes like X-Blades, Onechanbara, Blades of Time and a few others have been selling very poorly. Hopefully this would give developers the impression that sex doesn't sell anymore and give them an incentive to give actual depth to their characters, male and female alike.
I don't have an issue with seeing a brave, stubborn heroine taking on a male villain. If anything, I welcome it. To me, it shows that an action girl's badassery isn't limited to designated girl fights and it solidifies them as absolute badasses. And if you still want a designated girl fight, well, Nariko fought Whiptail, so I hope that gave you your fix.
Neil Gaskin Wow. You ''are'' nitpicking. Yes, a discussion like this should end here. Okay, can I hear someone rational responding to my comments this time?
Wow! Very well done. I admit I was a little nervous that you might give the typical BBC type talk of here's why women are so much better than men and the video would irritate me with PC propaganda. But no it was a much wiser discussion of gender in art than I often hear. Good stuff to think about.
There are a few horror games that scratched the surface of having a maternity-related theme. For example: 'The Park', a horror game where you play a mother trying to find her child in (you guessed it) an abandoned theme park. But I feel that this example doesn't really give the maternity theme full credit. The possibility of losing the child clearly frightens the mother, but the gamers themselves are scared by the other things in the game. (scary faces, jumpscares, noises, you know, horror stuff.) If we, the gamers, aren't connected to the child like the mother which we play, we wouldn't experience the deep evolutionary fear of losing one's child. Honestly, I think that this fear could be extremely powerful, and remains largely untapped in the game industry today.
just a quick thing. escorting children would either be a shitty escort like Amy, or have no bearing on the story which would be weird. unless someone finds something to make an escort game interesting and fun. Also, i was expecting this to tell me that all my ideas for female characters were just good characters not female ones, but apparently I've been doing this from the beginning
Yeah, but it doesn't have to be done as an escort mission, specifically. This War of Mine comes to mind. It's all about trying to provide for your core group in a war-torn world that cares very little about you. It doesn't really have any story or plot, though. Just endless gathering until your luck goes sour and everyone inevitably dies.
Business Burd i think it could be very interesting, there would be components of hiding, gathering, fighting, and strategy to make it from point A to point B, and certain skills such as charisma and speed could help you get through specific areas
Business Burd Perhaps the kids have certain talents or traits that make them more helpful or easier to escort. Like maybe one is good at finding spare parts and another is super small so you can hide them easily while fighting off a wave of enemies. Plus maybe the more you make the children do certain things, the more they evolve, like with skill trees, except you aren't directly choosing what skills your kiddos get during their time in the war zone. Idk, just some thoughts that mIGHT make it interesting.
"Challenging one gender norm or another" is not a recipe for creating a good female or male character, one could just say that they must have some other divergence from whatever is more usual, but regarding something unrelated to gender. There can be good characters, male or female, that don't deviate from gender norms any more than the average individual fluctuations (it's not like everyone is following laws and being "100% socially feminine" or masculine).
On the other hand, I would love to see an RPG game that plays into the idea of different gender perception in a way that is meaningful to the gameplay, but at the same time doesn't change the character itself - just the context. Stuff like exactly same dialogue lines ending in combat in only one case, bluff/intimidation differences, different arcs etc.; in general making the world presented be main difference in relation to gender chosen by the player - applying norms, not traits.
I'm trying to think of my favorite female character in games and I think I'm gonna have to say Naoto Shirogane from Persona 4 because she has to overcome societal pressure that doesn't take her seriously in the work force because of her gender. However they also make a joke concerning that despite dressing like a boy she secretly has the largest bust of the main female cast. O well they can't all be winners, but as far as the context of gaming is concern she is a fantastic example of a good female character.
Matt Murray the Persona series has some of the best female characters in gaming imo my favorite is Yukari, I could easily identify with her fear of death and uncertainty of her goals at the beggining and I enjoyed the feeling that she has my back. she also had some flaws, namely getting annoyed when you help her because she doesn't want to rely on a guy (like many real girls), but she does thank you because she acknowledges the fact you can't read her mind and only mean well (something not all girls do) I practically fell in love with her
Heck ya they were, Veronica was peppy and fun, sarcastic and loving but wonderfully retributive. She was also kinda gay, if I remember correctly. Meanwhile Cass was simple, honest, brutal and had this inner anger that just leapt off the screen, that and she fucked NCR boys without any attachment or love, cause sex was good. I enjoyed them both so much because they are not only radically different from each other but they have noticeable, concrete personalities and goals. They were real characters
***** And why she wanted the dress was even better. She grew up in a bunker, surrounded by religious attire and regulation. She wants a dress because it's eye catching and sexy and beautiful. All the things she thinks she lacks, and by extension, the Brotherhood lacks aswell. And your reward for getting a girl a dress, she teaches you Punching, cause in her words "Thats the gift that keeps on giving" Cass's alcoholism was really interesting, a lot of the time I noticed how angry she was and I'd agree to help but when I found out that no amount of violence would soothe her I had a real moment. Standing in the caravan barracks, surrounded by dead guards, staring at this beast of a woman. I realized, I felt sorry for her. I really fucking enjoyed New Vegas, I don't care what Extra Credits say about Fallout: NV.
Your opening, "No AAA titles have had a good female protagonist recently" made me immediately look down at the date. 2012. The Tomb Raider Reboot hadn't been released yet.
+The Learned Soldier As you kept going, and you mentioned "The Struggle of a Mother trying to protect her children while crossing a war-torn country" made me immediately think; "Oh, Fallout 4." Again, this episode was made in 2012, and FO4 was a 2015 release.
+The Learned Soldier Yeah, so this episode either inspired or just kind of accidentally nodded to the two Tomb Raider Reboot games(Lara, obv.), Fallout 4(A Female Protagonist), and, to some extent, the newer Halo games--4 and 5(Cortana)
+The Learned Soldier Eh, I mean Lara isn't that interesting. She's definitely not at her best in the reboots either. The writing is sub-par but not to bad. I've only played the first reboot, and I was slightly disappointed in the writing's godawfulness, but more happy about how Lara wasn't a bad character and was as bad-ass as usual. In Fallout 4 we both know the story isn't REALLY about motherhood and fatherhood, in fact the farthest from it we can get (I say this because the game is not about being a parent, as the video suggests a "mother game" would be about) And just because I can have a female protagonist in a game that uses saving my child as an objective, doesn't make it a "mother game". And lastly, Halo 4-5 is a very hard example to prove on the part of Cortana. Although she does "save" the chief and becomes a big player in the most recent entry, she is still mostly subservient in her dialogue and the writing doesn't even come close to generating the feel of partnership or equality captured in previous installments, like Halo 2.
True, but you have to consider how many characters are male in comparison to female in video games. I don't know any exact percentages, but the result isn't so much shocking as it is disappointing. Representation is important, especially for people (such as females) who do not a receive a fair amount of it.
I believe it is the topic of the episode, or else they wouldn't bother about adding 'female' to the title. Also, I don't quite understand how Sturgeon's Law applies. It might just be me, but could you elaborate that point a little farther?
Natini Staton No, it's not, or else they woudn't bother about adding "true" to the title. And they were talking about motherhood... About the Sturgeon's Law, yes, there are a lot of male characters. Too bad 90% of them are crap. Male character tends to be worse than female character.
Zeranzo I can agree to Stergeon's Law applying, it seems the bad writers would use males as a crutch to stay on the bandwagon. I still can't agree with your other assessment, but I'll agree to disagree, unless you would like to discuss it further. Have a good day.
Nice video, got me thinking a lot on the subject and made me ponder as a writer as to how I write my characters. I just want to share how I write sex-specific characters. For writing female characters: 1. First, determine if my story really needs a believable female character 2. Establish the role of said character in the story 3. While writing said character, ask insights from female friends, or maybe even call in a favor to get them to write that character themselves if you're that trusting. Also, for writing male characters: 1. First, determine if my story really needs a believable male character 2. Establish the role of said character in the story 3. While writing said character, ask insights from female friends, or maybe even call in a favor to get them to write that character themselves if you're that trusting. Overall, I feel that men will naturally have a bias as to how they wish to perceive women, whether it be a conscious bias or not, and the same would apply to how women perceive men, and there's already some research that supports this. However, I feel that in order for one to make a deep and interesting sex-specific characters (and also gender specific), one must consider how individuals of that sex perceive themselves, and how individuals from the other sex perceive them. I mean, just as much as no one knows yourself like you do, also applies to how you do not know yourself like others do. If you want a sex-specific character to be interesting, you'll need to understand the different perspectives individuals have of the individuals of that sex. This way, the character - having been built on real-world perspectives - can feel more real and more interesting. I will not lie though that this can over-complicate your character and that this is how I design my characters, and that others might actually have a better ways to design their own characters, but I just wanted to share is all. Yet again, great video :D
This game doesn't have a strong female character (mostly because she's a badger), but Shelter (2013) is a game about a mother badger who has to lead her kids through the wilderness, keeping them all alive. If you lose one, they're gone for good. It's a very nice game that builds a very strong bond between the player and the badgers. Check it out sometime.
While its true it wudn't make the biggest difference to the story/game itself, that's true for MANY(but not all) characters male and female. Think about all that the 1st Tomb Raiders wud've lost if Lara was a guy.. sex appeal.. that's it really. But gender shouldn't define characters it should only influence it, and its pretty hard to show that on any silent character like Samus, Gordon Freeman, Link, (can't remember his name but) the dude from Metro Last Light, Hacker from System Shock, and Nameless McBlank-Slate from the 1st Bioshock just to name some.
that's part of the point. The devs didn't' try to make the character that would fall under a female stereotype. It's a character that happens to be a girl and it makes no difference.
If I may quote Neil Gaiman on this one, "I always feel like the wrong person to be asked when I get asked that question because people say, ‘Well how do you write such good female characters?’ And I go, ‘Well I write people.’" Samus does have a character, though it is definitely subtly expressed, and just because it's not 'Hey guys, I'm a WOMAN!' doesn't mean she isn't a good female character.
