Lets take a look at what the 4 Cable Method is and how it works! 4 Cable Method Diagram: goo.gl/qnN577 Links: Facebook: / riffsandbeards Twitter: / riffsandbeards Instagram: / riffsandbeards Ask.fm: ask.fm/RiffsAndBeards
Dumb question.... but you have the FX loop on at all time right? I ask as I am trying to set up mine on a Recto. With the FX loop off the OD models in the front sound amazing.... but no Delay or reverb as loop is off. But when I engage the FX loops the sound looses some life. Any suggestions? Cheers!
Back during my gigging days, I actually used a 5CM, the 5th cable being midi. That way I could hook up my Boss GT10 with my Triamp in a way that let me switch amp-channels while switching patches.
Hi Fluff! I'm glad that there are recently so many "touring-related" videos. You take on questions for live players and not only home recording guys. Thats awesome!
Thanks for this video - I was having serious noise issues with the hx - (only 2 days old) I simply - couldn’t find a fix - I then tried your suggestion of reducing the return block volume (my amp - victory v130) required a reduction of between 6.9 - 8db) Now I’m getting fantastic tones !! Really made a huge difference ! If I hadn’t watched your video - that box was going back next week ! I had tried the helix months ago and loved how intuitive it was but I hated that it wasn’t true bypass - I found it changed the core tone of my amp too much (for my ears) so I returned it. When I heard the hx was true bypass I really WANTED to try it and love it , as these boxes offer so much flexibility and huge potential for creativity. I was ready to return the hx - thank goodness I found your video before I did , as I’m getting fantastic tones out of it now. Rock on
Super cool method. One way I always really like to think about it is you essentially put the pre-amp of the real amplifier in the fx loop of the processor (in this case the Helix) which allows you to consistently switch out pre-amps while using the processor. Love the concept of using the 4CM.
hey thank you for the good video! i tried hooking up my pod x3 live to my engl rack e530 using this method, i activated the loop and everything is working but the sound is ned loud at all, and i cant seem to find a way to make it loud? on the b ack od the engl there is only a line level and that doesnt help and of the pod i tried a lot of volume knob but nothing is working .. any ideas?
So if I wanna use presets or downloaded tones with the 4 cable method, they will sound better if I insert the FX loop after the amp in the preset patch?
Thanks Ryan, I found this really helpful. I've had a kemper for a while and recently purchased a Helix Lt to integrate the effect with. This was a straight forward experience, thanks to you I'm now back to learning guitar rather than being lost in signal processing options. Cheers👊
Hi there,nice video and explanations,have one question,how can i make the line 6 to be the foot switch to change from channel 1 to over drive/lead on my amp from the line 6.i am using firehawk,and even the hd500x,and different amps in hand from laney to peavey ,randal and all have send and return .
Can the tubescreamer models in the Helix boost the input of an amp like the real thing? Can a real tubescreamer in effects loop 2, put before the amp in the chain (4cm), keep its boost effect or does it get "levelled" when going through the helix? Basically both questions are the same: do i need a real tubescreamer and if so, does it work in the loop or will i have to switch it seprerately?
On high gain channel, doesn't this method introduce a lot of noise? I tried for a second time to use this method but the noise is too much when the guitar volume is down.
Hi Ryan, Thanks for a greta tutorial. However, I have a Marshall DSL20CR and all of the effects go to the effect loop on my Marshall, i.e. nothing happens when I change volume/eq on the amp. What am I doing wrong? Do you have a remote control for your amp FX loop? If so do you engage the amp FX Loop with the remote control? Best, Hans
Hi mate how would it work plugging a boss metal zone through effects return then using built in effects on the amp, in this case Marshall Valvetate AVT100? I assume still four cable method but if you or anyone here can clarify please :) a cable from guitar to input of metal zone then cable from output of metal zone into effects return does not allow built in effects of the amp as it stands
Been searching for videos that made this setup simple and yours was awesome! It seems simple until you try and do it without a guide. Great guide and awesome video.
Glenn Fricker mentioned having an open closet which he used as a giant bass trap. As well as storing your amp heads, do you use your closet for the same application?
I have the HD500x and have experimented with this method for ever and it sucks the tone out of my EVH. 3 questions: Why line out vs. amp out on the pod? With the HD500x global EQ on or off? Level settings in the mixer block? Would be greatfull for any clarification. :)
Glad to see a new vid on the 4 cable method. In my experiences with this method through my HD pro I would get digital white noise in the background of my patches, is that not there with the Helix??
Good video. Wondering if anyone can help me. I'm using the M13 with the four cable method and am trying to add a Digitech Jam Man looper into the mix where I can use the looper on (clean and dirty channels) and have it loop properly sounding not mushy. Can anyone advise me on how to get it into the mix properly? Much appreciated.
can someone pretty please explain 4cm using a Line 6 pod X3 live (or similar) with external overdrive or booster? can't seem to find an accurate respond to this.
Man, I have a Triple Rectifier Rev G and a 2009 Dual Rec and they both have the basically unusable parallel loops that Boogie used to use. I've been trying to use the 4CM for years, and it's just impossible to get a decent sound. Any tips, or should I just mod the amps?
Well done! I watched a few videos concerning my HeadRush Prime, JP2C and thought we have different gear your video was logical and straight forward- Thank you now on to jamming
Hey. Watching this right now in order to set up an L6 X3L into a 50x 5153. Your channel has always been helpful, you even responded to me here and on twitter. Fan for life, man, and thanks for the vid. Ive been trying to read about this sh*t for 2 days now, and this helped. 🤘🏻💀🤘🏻🎸
It's easy with the Boss MS-3 and a Peavey JSX, especially if you have a patchbay and a cable snake. Guitar signal goes into the MS-3 input, then L3 Send to input of the JSX, the Effects Loop Send goes to the L3 return of the MS-3, then you have the effects in the loop from the MS-3, then the Left (Mono) output of the MS-3 goes to the Effects Loop Return of the JSX. You can put boosts and overdrives in L1 and L2 of the MS-3. You can also change channels on the amp with the MS-3 patches if you have a 7-Pin DIN > TRS adapter cable, you just run that to the CTL OUT of the MS-3 and set up the two switches on the Output menu for each patch so that you get Clean, Crunch, or Ultra as needed (the cable needs to leave the effects loop always on). I also have a buffer after the Send of L3 and a Behringer HD400 under my board between the L3 send and return and the relevant jacks in the patchbay. The buffer sends the strongest signal through the 6m cable to the amp input (not needed for the effects loop as it is buffered) while the HD400 prevents ground loops by ensuring that only the MS-3 output (rather than L3) is a path to ground.
hi bruce and all his followers. i plan to buy my first tube amplifier (6505+) and will be used along with a pod hd pro x. i want to know if i can use the pod hd pro x as my clean channel because i'll be using the amp's dirty channel only through 4 cable method. so i have the amp's rhythm and lead and pod hd pro x's clean amp sims as my third channel. i hope i explained myself clear. thanks!
what does it mean when you Run a cable from the guitar, to an OD/Tuner/Noise Gate, from that to the front of the amp, then utializing your FX pedals via the send/return. Still technically the 4 cable method right? even tho... there are more cables involved.... Guitar (cable) Pedals in Front of Amp OD's etc (Cable) - AMP - (Send Cable) FX side of pedal board (Return Cable) Back to amp to Cab. Still 4 cables. Of course little patch cables connecting pedals, but the main 4 are set up in that way?
When I was playing shows, and I had an HD500X, my bandmate (who also uses multi-effects units), and multiple sound guys, recommended leaving the master volume all the way up, and setting the volume per patch with the "mixer" in the unit to avoid accidents from bumping the master volume knob. Would you recommend this as well? Or is it best to just take the time to toy with everything until you make it work? Is leaving the master volume all the way up making it harder than it needs to be? Thanks
If you crank the master volume all the way up, you'll burn out the caps in your power-stage before long. That is not a cheap-fix in the slightest, either.
You really don't want an amp like a Mesa-Boogie or a Marshall on full volume. They are ridiculously loud for most gigs, and even though you are controlling the volume with your FX patch, you might hit a wrong button where you don't have the patch volume backed off and you risk blowing your amp or speakers. Most of the pros almost never actually have their amps up all the way anymore. There's just no need for it. A friend of mine had a Marshall DSL 2000, and I don't think he ever had it beyond 3 or 4, and it was still way too loud for most gigs.
For everyone if you're amp has midi you can program channel switching into your patches by just hooking up the midi cable and depending on your amp you can save the channel on the amp easily then save your patch and it will simultaneously switch your amps channel with your patch.
In the diagram shown at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ku7VlVoH0vY.html , where would you put a noise suppressor pedal relative to the multi-fx device?
1:38 And you can also use the Helix Preamp models into your valve amp, or even use the Helix L&R Main out for your stereo Wet signal while using the valve amp for your Dry signal... that kind of stuff :)
Hey Fluff, Great Video as usual. Can you do a video for the set up of a BOSS MS3 into a Mesa Boogie JP2C and Mesa Boogie Mark IV. I have the two amps and having difficulty getting the Mark IV to switch channels. My current set up is the BOSS MS3 into the JP2c and I'm changing channels via a MIDI Cable. I want to introduce the Mark IV of clean passages (intro's with delays and big reverts etc.) turn the MARK IV off for distorted verses and the back on for distorted choruses. I hope this makes sense... LOL
This is awesome! And kind of crazy, I've been looking for a video like this to show me how to connect my Rocktron Prophesy II to my Peavey 6534. Looking forward to part 2 cause that is also something that I have been looking into.
They are pretty hard to find now. I actually prefer it over the 6505. The clean channel is spectacular and the lead channel is not as harsh as the 6505 in my opinion.
I also have a problem (i am using a TH30 without a master level), and the sound level difference is huge between the AMP simulation and my real amp distortion when i switch from one to another :(
Probably a dumb question, but with 4cm, can you bypass the amps preamp altogether and run a modeled preamp into the actual poweramp? If you can, that would allow you to, for example, get some Fender like cleans through an amp that may not have the best clean tone, but still use the amps preamp and channels for crunch and distortion.
That's exactly what I do with the POD HD500x, works like a charm for me, I just wonder if i would get a better signal by investing in a nice clean poweramp instead of running it through my 120wat line6 on a clean chanel
What I am getting at with my question is that, when using the 4cm, you could have a preset on your HD500x that bypasses the amps preamp substituting a modeled preamp. Then you could have a different preset that utilizes the amps preamp and uses no modeling, just effects. If you only have a one channel amp this essentially turns it into a multi channel amplifier. Like in Fluff's case, if you have a Rectifer it is unlikely you are going to want to use the Treadplate model instead of the real thing
If you turn the fx loop off on the modeler for a setting like that then it would be just like having the guitar straight into modeller with it's output going to the physical amps fx return and just hitting the power amp so you could use whatever amp model you want. 4cm basically just swaps an amp block in the modeller with an fx loop block for a physical amp
hey fluff, I already saw (and that's used by some other processors and some switchers, for sure) you plug the guitar into the input, the you loop send into the input of the amp, then amp loop send into processor return and finally the processor/switcher final send to the fx return (i don't know if this configuration is used more on stuff with stereo output) but i'm pretty sure that's the method/wiring sugested by dan/gigrig and the tc G-System/Nova system. I Also see this as the description of the method over the internet.
I use an ol Digitech RP355. Has no effects loop but I send the output from it to just the effects return on the effects loop on my amp. This cancels all amp controls which lets me get all my tone from the pedal. My modulations sound way better and the pedal does have the ability to act like separate stomp boxes as well. Just an idea for those who have a multi-effects unit without an effects loop on it.
Wouldn't mind hearing how the 4 cable method sounds vs just running one of these processors with no head, an amp sim, and effects in the loop of the sim.
Jay Menace can you control the amp channels with the x3, if the amp doesn't have midi? I keep waiting for the second part of this video to see how it's done. Come on Fluff😆
Saphrox Studios Guitar Tuition yep, you sure can. I'm going to Upload a video soon on an in depth explanation on how to used the 4 cable method, channnel switching, and dialing your tone using the Line 6 Pod X3 Live. Be sure to subscribe to my channel and hit that notification button so you'll know when it's up.
I see the new Sterling mic there off to the side, I hope you are going to review the new lineup soon! I'm trying to gather more solid info on the active ribbon version.
I have a boss gt100 and I assume the concept is the same. How can I make, for example, patch 1 clean on my amp and not the pedal, and then use the pedal to change to patch 2 with the distortion of channel 3 on my amp? I have a mesa boogie triple rectifier. There are no videos explaining this for the gt100 so I'm looking further into other pedals and how they do it. Would be an excellent video for everyone!
Are there two four cable methods? I saw another video where a guy went: Guitar into Processor Input > Processor Send to Amp Input > Amp Send into Processor Return > Processor Output into Amp Return
Whoops you explain hooking it up wrong. It's guitar into helix input - helix fx send to front of amp - amps fx send to helix return - helix main output to amps fx return.
Hi I follow you on your RU-vid channel. And I really appreciate all your knowledge and demos that you present on various products that are going out to the market. Recently I bought the Headrush Pedalbord. I studied the Manual, and intended to use Headrush punctually with my amplifier (Legacy 3 from Carvin), with the 4 cable methods system. With my amplifier it does`t work it kept without sound. I asked for support from Headrush (they sent me a suggestion, which does not work and after that I never received any reply from them). In attachment i send there answer: "With regards to your previous message, if you wish to use this as the FX Loop for other amps you will need to firstly ensure that you're plugging your guitar into your amp and not the pedalboard. Once this has been carried out, please connect the FX return R from your pedalboard to the FX Send on your amp and vice versa. If you have connected all of your cables, please then click on the three dots on the top right to access your global settings. Under Audio Configuration, please then select the rig input as FX return R as this will allow the headrush to receive the send from your amp. If this has been set, please then create a new rig where you will be able to add all of your FX. Please ensure that you firstly create the FX Loop patch before you add any of your FX." I saw on your youtube channel how to make a connection with 4 cable methods system. With your knowledge and experience with Headrush and other amplifiers can you suggest what can be the problem or the solution? PS. I contacted Carvin and I never got an answer Regards Paulo
From my experience with 4CM on any device that I have tried(AX8, AXFX2, Helix...) is that it's a tone and feel sucker. So much AD to DA conversion going on I guess.
You didnt explain each action taking place and the point in the chain that it is happening. Ex. Dry goes in, non-time based comes out here, gets sent there, then the same for time based effects.
So you can just play without utilizing the Helix. You have to either unplug shit or have a patch with just an fx loop block, otherwise the volume will be insanely loud.
Can you talk in your next FAQ Monday about what Jarrod Alonge said about youtube going down hill. I am a small but aspiring channel myself and right now do it more for fun. I just wanted to know your thoughts. Thanks Fluff!
You can really hear the clarity of any effect you want to add so you can understand that less is better, not more... Better. hahaa. This will enhance garbage too so, buyer beware. A nod to the it goes to 11 guys. Thanks for this R,B & G!
How is any of this considered a new idea? I've been doing that since I upgraded from my first practice amp, and I've been playing for 17 years. If you don't want your master volume pot to get bumped, just take the knob off and put gaffer tape over the shaft.
you have been playing 17 years... wow .. that's a long time. So you remember the old times when there was no profiling amps like the Kemper, and all we had was modeling amps like the Line6 and we were happy to have them. I started playing electric guitar in 1981 (I was 14yrs old) after seeing Ozzy live w/Randy Rhoads because he had recently left my favorite band...Black Sabbath.. My first electric guitar was a 1968 Gibson SG...because my fav band was.......... Black Sabbath. My dad paid $225 for it. I got my first Marshall 100 watt head 4 years later and it had an fx loop and I did the 4wire method back then using my Marshall and an old Intersound IVP pre-amp that had 2 different fx loops in it. So I ran a Lexicon pcm41 and a Delta Lab delay into it. There was no midi yet ... most midi came out in 1986.. but it was expensive... so everything was switched via a controller I built using a multiplexing switching IC... which was an early foot controlled fx loop controller. Bradshaw was using similar designs until midi became avail in the mid 80's I still use the 4 wire method occasionally. With modern midi foot controllers and the ability to use C.C. to change parameters and switch on the fx within the patch the method's full potentials are finally realized... not like in the midi 80's...Technology evolves so quickly we rarely get to exploit all the possibilities of some of our equipment before that technology moves on to the next "thing". So sometimes its a good idea to revisit those old methods and see what new ways we can use those old methods.... good luck INF1D3L010. And keep trying new things and re-examine those old methods... some of us old guys actually had a few tricks up our sleeves. As you continue your journey you will no doubt develop a ton of your own tricks. Share your wisdom with the younger generation like Fluff does. If we don't... then electric guitars will fade away into history. And that would suck worse than disco... and yes... DISCO STILL SUCKS.
See my comment above. With a 5150 you need to set it up with a simple TRS cable between the amp footswitch and the control out on your processor. Set one switch to turn the effects loop on and the other to whichever channel you want to work for the patch. The 5150 does not have a 'crunch' switch (except on the 5150 II with the DIN cable footswitch) so you will still have to operate crunch via the switch on the front of the amp but you can change between Rhythm and Lead.
