I mean it's a lovecraft game so that's par for the course. I'm more surprised that we ended here and didn't get flung into the far reaches of Elder Space.
This game feels like the creators were scared of it being called a "walking simulator" for not having enough combat and fail states to qualify as a "real game", so after the awesome first few bits -- which are what the game should have been, just exploration, dialogue, creepy atmosphere, and light adventure game-y puzzle elements -- they frantically packed in a bunch of clunky stealth, cliched "find X things" puzzles, general filler, and a few pointless shooting sequences for good measure. Or they just got bored after designing the initial phase of Darkwater and wanted it to be more action-packed. Ending's cool as shit, though.
Nice premise, bad pacing, padded with useless shit that fights what would have made the game shine and sadly not really worth a second play in spite of looking like it would at first glance, but cool ending.
Worst part is that the actual problem with walking simulators is that they usually have fairly simple plots with an ending plot twist that may or may not make the whole game worth it, but this game wouldn't have had that issue.
Feels like the game is trying to take the "high road" by downplaying combat - just like the original pen and paper game does. It doesn't really manage to fill the game with some equally entertaining element, though. In the P&P CoC, it's basically assumed that your character will die or go completely insane. Because you're up against adversaries far more powerful than what a mere mortal can handle. At that point you're simply expected to make a new character and continue with the story. Eternal Darkness manages to get those mechanics right to a large degree, but Call of Cthulhu: the video game only kind of alludes to it by allowing you to control someone else for a short while. I think a well managed system that allows for multiple characters could have been very entertaining, but it probably takes a lot of effort to really nail it.
I think they ran out of time when designing the middle. There are so many pointers (and preview news articles) that show possible features, like hub areas like in the first area, or recruiting investigators from npcs and send them out to do stuff.
I still don't get why they needed Pierce. The entire island already knows about the Leviathan so I don't understand what the point of a "truth seeker" is. If they needed an inquiring mind, why not use Sarah, or Dr. Fuller or Algernon aka the guy who already knows everything about the Occult?
@@brainflash1 At the end they said something about how the Truth Seaker's mind could see into the other world or something, so I assume it's like Pierce is just special and he has a connection to Cthulhu that the other cultists just don't. Now, this actually isn't that dissimilar from the Shadow Over Innsmouth's book's twist (which this game draws a lot from) where at the end of the story the main character realizes he's descended from Dagon and will turn into a fish-person, making him kind-of special because he has this special connection to the Lovecraftian thing, but in that story the other residents of the town were also connected to Dagon, so I dunno how much or little that relates to this, just that it's a thing.
For some reference to what happened in that last ending, here's what the Cultists believe is going to happen when they win, straight from Call of Cthulhu: "free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."
@@mastermarkus5307 It really is a matter of "in reward for our service Great Cthulhu is going to kill us last. Or first? Whichever you think is the better one."
Nyarlathotep Yeah, you're probably too busy F-ing around with Japan. So what's in the works this time Nyarly, going to make another *less than 1$ bet with a Butterfly Man/God* or maybe star in another Harem Anime but this YOU will be the protag.
I KNOW none of it changed the ending much, but it was still a Pisser that Pat just kept clicking the nonsense Dialogue when it was the opposite of what he wanted. PAT! Why u always let the 『 』 WIN?
So I meant to do deep Lovecraft lore comments on this LP - and then job searching got in the way of my schedule. But I can still drop this tidbit of lore. "Leviathan" is almost certainly a Star Spawn of Cthulhu, basically smaller versions of the greater beast that do its bidding. It most likely orchestrated everything surrounding Darkwater and the Miraculous Catch as a way to lure someone to complete the summoning ritual for its master. These are creaturs that think of a timescale of centuries so hanging around being eaten by sailors in a podunk town for decades is a small price to pay.
Time for easily the coolest part of the game. That foggy tentacle space is the shit. Gonna come back after the video to see if I was right about them getting the disappointing ending. Follow up: god damnit I was so pissed for a second before realising how much time was left in the video after they did the counter ritual. I was both right and wrong.
The endings could have been been finished off more elegantly. They finish so abruptly. Even just a more smooth transition from the last scene into credits roll would have been an improvement.
and they don't understand how to use the mystery. everything that looks odd can be used to be never explain. That is the true understanding of lovecraft.
The big problem is that people know Lovecraft's work but Lovecraft's work isn't necessarily that popular right now, and because of that it's hard to really get a good budget together for it. At least there's good stuff inspired by Lovecraft, but even those things aren't really good for being 'Lovecraftian' because they completely miss the whole "You're not allowed to see the thing" part of this because most developers aren't really subtle enough to choose to NOT go for a hidden monster in a visual medium.
As much as it feels like this game fell flat in more areas than it succeeded, I appreciate it for trying. It very much reminds me of what would happen if you actually sat down to play the Call of Cthulhu tabletop game, and your GM bit off more than he could chew.
The character models were bad but the animations were worse. You can have tension and drama with bad models but you can't when every character dances while they speak.
From what I can discern, The Leviathan and later Sarah played a long con, as cult leaders tend to do. Sarah however partipated unknowingly it looks like, until Leviathan claimed her mind/soul/will. The shambler was a means to an end - the events before and after it was summoned seem to be Leviathan's interest through Sarah to test the population of Darkwater, the cultists, and Pierce. Sarah's husband was probably the 'first chosen', before Leviathan rejected him in favor of Pierce, with the hubby only percieving it through his marriage issues with Sarah. Being power hungry, he turned abusive towards her - but being weak willed, he was unfit for Leviathan's plans. It seems like it needed someone who had a lot of fight in him, but could also be receptive - Pierce, being a former soldier and also alcoholic, fits this, and catches Levi's interest once he arrives. All the talk about world saving and fate are bunk - I find it hiiiighly unlikely that the Leviathan influenced Sarah's father to see Pierce, and kick everything off. Not when mainland America isnt afflicted by Miraculous Catch nonsense, and there is nothing in the narrative actually showing Leviathans influence outside of the island. Its all insular, supernatural island cult business. Everyone Pierce encounters on the island is Leviathan's puppet, an extension of it, both figuratively and literally after eating meat. Some, like Dr Fuller, do their work to spread Leviathans influence and in return, can exist out of body as well as 'respawn' new bodies. They have no free will, just Leviathans. They just think they do. (Fuller knows the truth and doesnt care because he knows he isnt expendable) The inmates at the asylum part of the hospital were definitely either people too sensitive to Leviathan, or so strongwilled that their minds broke - maybe they lashed out and did crimes to cope. I really like the first ending you guys got. As for the second... my first impression was Bacchanalia gone bad. Either they were compelled to kill each other or they lost it after they were no longer useful , and Leviathan let them go. Alternatively, they were blood sacrufices. As for the fishy zombies, Leviathan didnt have use for the population milling about in the end phase plan, and needed to test Pierce. Btw, loved the games' references, wish we got more info on life on the island, so we had a better idea of how leviathans control progressed, same with indigeonous life before colonists. Cthulhu should have been used better, not as a gimmick. The atmosphere of the game was too static, which made horror predictable. Everything and the sky was green. The game didnt know if it wanted to be psychological or actiony, so it lost all subtlty. Vagueness isnt a substitute for subtle.
Lovecraft was afraid of everything, including shrubbery. But the big thing about cosmic horror is the existential, psychological anxiety of it. You can't pull that off if everything is predictable and formulaic, and grounded in action. It distances what happens from the player, and nothing is made personal or relatable enough to creep anyone out. The second ending was shitty because the game followed the action formula and cut itself off, mistaking absence for obscurity. Theres no sense of completion of the story, or scope of continuity, if everything ends in the cave. For all I know, Cthulhu popped in, smacked Leviathan for prank calling, and left our dimension/planet. Theres no fodder for speculation or imagination, it's cheap.
I did like the choice wheel, menus, sanity meter, the eye/round motifs. I especially liked the diagrams on the chalkboards, which should have been readable. I'll likely buy the game for myself, just to look around more closely at the environments. But, man. The ending of the game reveals a lot about the game itself, both in development and after production. It reveals the logic used. The narrative can make or break a game as a result, and in this case the default ending breaks it. My final thought is more attention should be put to writing than it is now in the industry, because the issues in this game arent particularly unique. Developers should be able to have faith in players' attention span and not telegraph everything visually, or resort to badly-inserted action segments to keep interest. Writing is more than just dialogue - each loaded section of the game is an interactive scene, and should be plotted with the same consideration as one would a novel, so that everything flows together in the end and in the process beforehand, allows for an overhead view of how elements interconnect. Thats just my advice though.
I agree with you guys pretty much, also I wished there was an artbook released for the game - I bet the concepts were a lot better than the finishing graphics, judging from the main menu.
@@fractowlish "For all I know, Cthulhu popped in, smacked Leviathan for prank calling, and left our dimension/planet." I think it would be 20 times funnier to find out that they went through all that just to find out that this is how elder gods prank call each other
all of the spooky netherrealm places in this game just remind me of The Void in Dishonored, particularly how jagged edged everything is. Sarah Hawkins even teleports like The Outsider.
The cool thing about bloodborne is how similar it really is to the works of Lovecraft. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mLc7m7Z3bbU.html
I don't know if you'll get it. I think Bloodborne could have more fleshed out lore (I know a lot of FromSoftware fans like their vague lore, but I could've done with a bit more in Bloodborne, especially concerning the Church's past), but the presentation and overall experience as a game is top-notch. It's also one of my favourite horror games despite ostensibly being an action game.
I forgot what this game was about. I was just waiting for the security guard that scared the Zaibatsu to show up through the whole LP. I am disappointed.
Here's how the final confrontation with Cthulhu should have gone: Pierce: "Hey Cthulhu! Look what I got!" (Holds up a framed picture of a boat) (Cthulhu screams in terror before running back into the mist) World saved. Roll credits.
@@trevingrayek791 Nyarlathotep can actually fuck off. Yog-sothoth is where it's at, mostly because he's not a complete asshole. Haster, too , i suppose.
To be fair, most love craftian games have pretty piss poor endings, since it's ultimately futile as to what you do, you either lose your mind, or your life.
"Good Lord! What is happening up there?!" "Aurora Borealis?" "A... Aurora Borealis! At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within your town?!" "Yes!" "May I see it?" "No."
we've been asking for generations... but they're either keeping that in another "Break Glass" case, they're too scared, or the game is such a buggy mess vanilla or modded that it's never been able to take Lift Off.
@@thepickles8833 I can't stand how Pat, mr. "I'll come to your house and mod New Vegas for you.", says he isn't interested because the game has to be patched.
I remember Pat mentioned that they wanna do bloodlines, but probably won't because its such a mess. Having said that he also said they would never do God Hand because its too hard so Crazy Talk may save us.
So. You guys going to play around in Sinking City when it comes out? Maybe wash some of this fish juice out of your mouth with a different lovecraftian experience?
I'm glad when Matt and Pat share my opinions lol. This game could've been better if they hadn't even bothered with the shambles or even leviathans uber stank, really. Not really deserving the Lovecraft seal of approval and I only hope the sinking city does better at actually creating an unsettling or scary environment.
When I was talking with my sis about this game a few days ago and I said it wasn't that great, she said the best way to judge a game is usually by its final level/boss. So we tried to watch the final part of a silent walkthrough together, but five minutes into the video it somehow caused her computer to crash... Still not sure whether to simply blame Cthulhu or the spirit of Euro Jank for that one. Either way, I believe the experience helped us make an accurate judgement of the game. Personally I'm just gonna make summoning pentagrams and cult-y sacrifices in the hopes that The Sinking City ends up being good.
Boy, I wish this whole game had just been Pierce investigating things. Reading books, interacting with weirdos, gathering clues, all of that was really fun. Then we got railroaded into nonsense and were given a bunch of unsatisfying endings. All sense of consistent escalation just got thrown out the window by like the asylum, the sneaking was awful, the shooting was a joke, and at the end of the day, all it seems like is that the only people that make Lovecraft games are short on budget and short on enough ideas to actually make a completely interesting product.
I can't believe they didn't get the ending where Kenny crashes in and he and Pierce blow up Cthulhu while lamenting how Charles turned his back on his family.
Don't get your hopes up, Pat already said he hasn't any intention to wait for the diluted timings of an LP to play REmake2. He'll probably stream it though, so there's that.
Not a terrible game, just kinda... bland. which is something i thought you couldn't even do when it comes to lovecraftian mythos. but i guess that comes with oversaturation of the culture.
my boi, considering the amount of actual terrible games i've played, this one does not rank that badly. especially when it comes to 'spooky run away from evil thing' games. like seriously, all this game needed was another 'A' (meaning budget) and like you said, would've been badass.
To be honest I was hoping that the sanity system in this game would sort of be like Amnesia: The Dark Desents sanity system so I was disappointed when I found out that it only works through scripted events and has no impact other then extra dialogue choices.
So, my interpretation of why the whole ritual stuff works, and why Cthulhu and the other elder gods care about it, is that like 90% of it is complete bullshit that people just made up. The part that actually matters is some weird combination of angles and tones that comes together in just the right way to change something that matters. It probably doesn't even require actual living things. You could put a bunch of robots out there, and have them make the right forms and sounds, and it would probably work just as well.
But people don't understand that, because they see the Cthulhu and beings like it as gods, rather than as the extremely advanced, extradimensional weirdos that they actually are. They assume that they need to worship them, and that they need to have rituals and sacrifices and idols and all that stuff that Cthulhu & Pals just do not actually care about at all.
I'm a big fan of the Cthulhu ants thing, that if ants started making circles and chanting in your house you'd go and take a look at what they were up to, not because of any specific part of what they were doing but just because that's not normal for ants to do and you go to check it out, maybe step on a few on accident, maybe give them some sugar because why not, Cthulhu is just doing that on a much bigger scale Look up "Cthulhu ants" and the thing I'm mentioning should come up
@@MisanthropicMarxist Well, anything can be deemed a god. A god is basically just a being or perception that is given a human conscious so that humans can try to interact with it. Zeus was worshiped as simply lightning before the Greeks gave him and his family more relatable human forms. So really, these immortal beings are gods in a petty human assumption that humans can benefit from these cosmic beings. Humans want their secrets and these secrets also have the power to destroy human minds that can't fully process it. It's a very human thing to seek "truth" knowing the same truth will undo them. Anyway, the Circles and rituals are a form of language and code. Similar to how computers read command codes or in this sense, how a complex mind unconsciously reads symbols. You have to remember, the Brain of any creature, even the Great Old Ones, has an unconscious, a vast section of the mind that manages heart rate, digestion, breathing, and memory. My guess, is these Ritual Circles have both conscious and unconscious reactions from the gods. Even if the gods merely glance at these circles, much like humans going insane looking at the old ones, causes the world and cosmos to react unconsciously. Like it's been said "when the stars are right, they can move freely through the universe, but if the stars are wrong, they cannot live", so I'm sure the constellations and various light from these stars are how the Great Old Ones perceive the universe and "use it" in a miraculous ways. I hope that all makes sense. If I sound like I'm just talking out of my ass, I apologize. That's guess my theory to how psychology and astronomy would function in Lovecraftian terms.
In the original story, a bunch of sailors bumbling around on R'lyeh accidentally let Cthulhu out. Thousands of years of preparation by the cult, and it's a bunch of random dudes who unleash the horror on the world. Cthulhu needs his worshipers for one thing only, to open the front door. After that, he'll take care of things himself.
From my perspective, games like bloodborne have the capacity to take the concept of cosmic horror and do whatever they want, as there's no requirement to stick to any preset lore. Games like call of cthlulhu have to stick to a certain concept or idea, in which cool things can be done, but freedom is limited, which makes them less likely to be exemplary, though they can still be alright.
You can't trust IGN, they are the same company that have reviewers that give God Hand a 3/10 and says the combat is "too hard", the same company that said Nier Automata was too short and the combat was sloppy, didn't even realize there are multiple routes for the game, the same company that gives every CoD game a 8/10 and calls it "different" every time. Don't trust IGN they aren't very good at their job.
i dont think the character models are poor at all, just that nobody actually emotes. like at all. like the animation team didnt know how to animate a human face worth a damn. i want to say "they didnt bother lip synching at all", but i feel like this wasnt made by an american team at all.
It doesn't feel like it was made by an American team because it was made by a French team. And I think they thought talking with your hands and body was an acceptable alternative to making faces emote, which hasn't been true since the post-PS1 era.
You guys nailed it with him always passing out as a form of travel; remember the trailers for this game, with him actually moving around and exploring an environment in a boat? SO much promising stuff got cut, with so much very clear filler and padding put in, and with lingering game mechanics with no real impact anymore left in. The jump cuts, the one sided nature of the endings suggest they had to cut SO MUCH. I wish I knew why. Matt, tell us WHAT HAPPA!
I am really interested too. I think they ran out of money or time and were too ambitious, cause I also saw articles about features before the game came out, that didn't make it into the game.
Thanks guys, loved the series. I was expecting a lot more from this game, but it was still an enjoyable watch thanks to your commentary. Looking forward to the next one.
Ya know what? Despite the falk the Best Friends gave it (and lord knows were some of those criticisms deserved; I pretty much zoned out during the middle part of the game), the beginning and last acts of the game are at least really interesting.
i mean i know its not the best but how long has it been since a cthulhu mythos game has been launched, hopefully they will get enough support to do another game
Cthlulhu lore: Cthlulhu's whole deal is humanity is risen up into a new age of killing and partying hard and learn new ways to kill and party hard. So summoning cthlulhu means everybody just kills and parties via ya know, killing.
This game has its good points. I would like to see a sequel or a spiritual successor by the same team, one that takes the criticisms moving forward and makes an even better game.
This was a good reminder of why I can't stand the Call of Cthulhu tabletop game or almost any mythos thing despite liking Lovecraft's actual stories. The whole sacrifice/summoning ritual plot absolutely screams "Derleth."
@@JackOfen Yeah, someone said in an earlier vid comment.. it *is* kinda weird how cthulhu has just sorta become the face for the whole mythos, when honestly he's usually a bit lame. Involve some other ones for a change, Hastur, or Nyarlathotep or something
@@FluffyDragon Nyarlathotep is my favourite, he may just be more of a "caretaker" to the Old Ones. But at least he isn't banished or asleep. He is around, taking various shapes or forms to deceive humans and does careful planning to make everything happen as he wants. The best part about his stories is that you often won't know that he is in the story until it's too late and he reveals himself to kill or make others mad to silence them, so they can't warn anyone about his plans.
I loved watching this LP, I am so glad you guys did this and I'm glad you picked up that final gun, I mean rock. I do hate all the dropped plot points, like the fish-like dude who Dr. Colden was examining, I wanted more legit fish people. Also, Cat and her bodyguard, who gets like 4 lines of dialogue but a unique model and name. At least with what they were given, this game turned out super well.
