Ultimate 6.5 creedmoor sizing die comparison 

+Garth738 thanks for your kind words. That's why I started the channel. I have gotten a lot of help from the community here with advice and flat out telling me I was wrong. Any time I can skip being wrong 5 times, it's a good thing. I try not to say cheap, it's value. You can't put a price tag on a bullseye. At least I haven't found anyone selling them. Match ammo is expensive so the cost of the dies, if you shoot a lot, still isn't that much. At least at this point, I am not sure why I would chose something besides forster. Thanks again.

I fully realize everything just to be clear... Yor mileage may vary 😁

I also get similar results with: "neck size with a Lee Collet Neck Sizer, and then bump the shoulder with a Redding body die " for both .308 and 7mm Rem Mag reloads. Follow the above with either the Redding or Forester seating die and the concentricity is amazing. I get less then or equal to 0.0005 This is of course after spending time prepping the best brass of your choice (Lapua, Nosler . . .). The Lee Collet Die also has a full length mandrel that can be customized to the interior neck size of your choice - I better go buy some extras before they realize what they have and triple the price!!!

Thanks and I am glad you enjoyed it. Its hard to argue with what works, and it has worked well for me.

+kyle lusk thanks

Hey Dan, Happy New year. Glad you enjoy the content, The video length is a little excessive, but didn't know how else to get the point across. I really feel its a great option, not sure how what could do any better. So I have another video coming soon that only scratches the surface on this, but it starts down this path a little. It depends exactly what you want to know.

Thank you. I hope you guys found it interesting.

+Mike Simpson thanks

+Reloading with Johnny Ray - Backwoods Guns thank you sir.

Me to ; you cannot beat the Collet Die for consistency and accuracy.

Thank you sir, Happy new year to you as well.

+heywire101 thanks for the compliment. I have pretty much exclusively switched to the forster dies and expander mandrel. I plan on running a expander. 001 vs .002, vs expander ball test to see that but I am done with the lee dies. I was hoping to have a very mature load by then besides the 140 eld with h4350. Its a great load but only 2650 fps.

Hi John I will give it a whirl some day, but for the record .005 runout is not acceptable on my bench. With the Forster I keep it at .001 or less 98% of the time. I really think that the Forster Dies are a far better value than lee, but all anyone seems to look at is the price of admission, not getting it correct the first time.

John you have a good head on your shoulders. Collet dies are the best neck sizing dies. You could just use Lee Dies and have good bench rest seating dies like Redding or Forster and make great ammo. Not just good ammo great ammo. I have Redding Deluxe Die Sets, Hornady Die Sets, RCBS Die Sets, Lee Die Sets and I can tell you that they all work fine but the more expensive ones don't do anything to make them shoot any better period. There is a difference when it gets to a bench rest seating dies however. That makes a big difference. Redding and Forster make very good ones. The more expensive ones are made a bit better for endurance and longevity, but with good care Lee Die Sets can last too if taken care of . It's more important to get quality brass to load accurate bullets.

+David Peterson after using them I will basically probably stick forster from now on. Even though they are a little more expensive, they are worth the money.

Yup

+Shaun Tucker glad you enjoy it.

Update. Switched to the the Redding S full side match set. #36446

Sounds great. Welcome to the channel!

I am not a fan of neck sizing, I will pull out the lee collet die eventually. I know there are a lot of fans out there, but resutls I have seen don't really justify its usage for my process. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0lSNXRYk2xo.html

@@BoltActionReloading If you don't neck size, you will never know the advantages of it. Some people can actually neck size a case as many as 20 times the life of the case with a moderate load. Accuracy does improve with fire formed cases. Especially if the necks are turned. And you can't beat that Lee Collet Die for getting that neck straight either. A lot of your run out measurements in this video could be off because the necks are not uniform in thickness. The inside could be spot on and the outside not sol Think about it.

sean metzger bud I went with a Redding competition bushing 3 piece set for my 6.5cm.I found a nib for 175$

+nickanto I started off with lee, then hornady, and then have picked up the forster. It has provided excellent results and likely where I will stay. The Redding bushing die seems to always give me more run out than I like so it will be forster for me.

+njgrplr2007 glad you enjoyed it. It was way longer than I wanted to make it. I struggle with how much to keep, and how much to cut out. But I thought seeing the run out for yourself is a lot more powerful than simply reporting a measurement. I wonder honesty if I would have bought the press if I would have bought the dies first. I honestly just wished I bought this press first. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

Which tool did you use to measure the runout?

+njgrplr2007 rcbs case master concentricty gauge tool I think

I have tried this and the Forster wins this hands down. It improves the Lee's performance but doing this again in 300 win mag Forster showed up on top.

+wayne Pursell thanks as always. I am not sure the Hornady tools is fixing anything as much as it makes us feel better. That said it his hard to measure this without inducing human error. All I know is we can probably agree on is less is better. Glad to listen to any idea as always. As far as in stock, not sure, but if you were thinking of getting one honed by them you can order straight from forster. Not exactly the cheapest, but if you pay shipping 3 times its likely a wash. Best of luck.

Thanks for the advice. I will do more research on the dies. The custom die sounds great but I would need to tell them exactly what I want. I don't think I know enough yet to do that. Oh well, it is super cold here where I live and it is not likely that I will be going to the range until it gets warmer. That may take a month or two, so I guess I still have time to learn some more. One thing for sure is that the more I learn, the more I don't know even a fraction of what there is to know. I need to read the Zediker book, too.

+wayne Pursell I think you can send them a piece of fired brass as well, but call them. I called them about something completely unrelated and their support was very good. On the book, it's a hard to sit down and read and impossible to take it all in, but it is certainly worth it.

I can't see how the Hornady tool "fixes" anything. It might fix the runout but it has to mess with neck tension. There is no way that moving the bullet around doesn't stretch the brass. Think about it. Something has to move.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Its factory dimensions. I may hone it someday, but it works good the way it is

Bolt Action Reloading good to hear . Thank you

+Mike Carlson what distance are you shooting out to?

where did you find Forster micrometer seating die, everyone is sold out

+Ian Reed I bought mine from Cabelas a while ago.

Ian Reed ebay

+Mike Carlson I have not. I have had great luck with forster and likely won't change.

I did not have a FL Redding S die to compare at the time. (I do now, but its still a bushing die) I have found that the bushings tend induce the extra runout. I plan on making a updated video on this in the not to distant future.

@@BoltActionReloading Thanks!

Hi Brandon, Thanks for watching my channel. There is a lot to your comment so I hope I get it all. (and keep in mind lots of people will be happy to disagree) IMO - bushing dies are only better for not working the neck as much, absolutely nothing else in my experience (But again this is my experience) You just remove the rod that has the expanding device on it and do 2 separate steps instead of one. (assuming your using a expander ball, if not a smaller bushing might be required. Emphasis on might) USE LUBE! For your own benefit I would size and measure 3 different configurations to see for yourself (which is the most important person to prove it to anyway.) 1. standard die no expanding device, then expander mandrel 2. bushing die, expander mandrel 3. bushing die, its own expander ball. measure them all for concentricity (that is my measuring stick on the bench) If #1 isn't the best I would be shocked. (keep in mind you can buy honed dies from forster to reduce the amount of work on the neck if you like.) I have yet to loose a neck on 6.5 creedmoor (Other calibers will be different!) Also your neck thickness variation will show up at this step, poor consistency in neck thickness will look like bad concentricity. Confused yet? Now for the size of the expander mandrel. It depends, they are $10 just try it out. I have across the board have better results with .002 (turning mandrel) but I also anneal every load. Other report .001 (or even .0015, where to find that??????) but I know some of them do not anneal. I think that this may be part of the discrepancy, but YMMV. Hope this helps feel free to comment all you like, and welcome to the channel. I get lots of great comments if you check out more of my videos.

I typically use a .262 mandrel.

Hi Todd. Keep in mind you should have a goal and if it works good enough then don't worry about the rest. I enjoy the process and that is why I make videos. If you want to use the mandrels it is an extra step in a extra die. But you can just use your FL die with out the seating stem, and then run the mandrel of the size you choose through it.

@@BoltActionReloading thank you for responding, so I would need an extra die to use the mandrel. Got it. I too got involved in reloading because I want to make the best bullets I can make and think that the process can be therapeutic. I'm really looking forward to more of your videos and maybe you could recommend some of your videos that can help a newbie out. Thanks again.

This Redding die is a neck only die so I didnt figure its surface finish eas relevant. I think you aren't going to go wrong with either. I have purchased several more calibers of Forster dies and have been happy with them.

I have, using a forester FL die with no expander and then using a Sinclair NT expander mandrel to set the neck dimension has worked best for me. Results on the bushing dies have varied.

Ok T4. An extra step but it seems worth it. I guess if I didn’t want the extra step I could have them hone the FL die it my dimensions.

" It's easy to get lost " after 1/2 hour I was worn-out.

I like your plan except I would use a Sinclair neck expander mandrel to open the neck back up. (Needs to be lubed well) but this drastically reduced my run out. YMMV

This is complex and I load on a single stage. It depends in what you decide to use for your process. I have a specific process that doesn't lend itself well to a progressive so I never bothered to get a Dillon's 550 like I originally thought I wanted. Best of luck, if you have specific questions dont hesitate to ask. I know 6.5 guys have done videos about precision on a progressive press, might want to check them out. Btw you cant use a 143eldx seating stem from hornady in a Forster die. No fear though the stem that comes with the Forster seating die works fine with that projectile.

I have not used the neck bump bushing die. I bump the shoulder with the FL die. I did a video on Neck only vs FL sizing here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0lSNXRYk2xo.html

Jeez, they should all be precision dies.

Hi mark, I much prefer the Forster, it works great on basically everything in 6.5 that I have tried. But you can check this out if you like. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-a0KXYPtUh1s.html

I haven't tried them yet.

Does Dillon have a 6.5 die?

I am sure they do.

I know that Vaughn Precision has checked them out and seemed to think they worked well. I haven't tried them out yet.

@@BoltActionReloading I just purchased a 223 Mighty Armory sizing die and a Forster seating die along with a Lee crimp. From what I've heard that should be the best setup. I'll be doing my depriming and swaging separately. I'm running a Dillon 650 but looking to buy a high end single stage for my 308 and running same dies as my 223. Both guns have a Proof Research barrel.

That is my understanding, but I have not used them.

moparmadman thank you for your response. Do you have an opinion on the Forster benchrest fl sizer. I’m looking to upgrade from standard RCBS dies.

After a few firings you will need to full length size, I think I count around 4 maybe 5 firings until I FL size, I honestly quit neck sizing since I get the same accuracy.

Eventually yes, you have to use a FL to bump your shoulder back a little

Its just a bushing since it's a NO die, so I guess I didn't think about including it.

understandable

+Phill T ib don't think that collet will fit in after sizing is done since the neck would be undersized.

I've tried that before, it turn out that the collet don't fit inside and i ruined a piece of brass like moparmadman show us in the end of the video. I've had big problems of enormous run out with my lee sizing die, you could see the bullet crooked, the bolt of the gun was hard to close and i had unexpected flyers. I've switched on hornady custom grade die, now my tikka is a hell off a gun!

actually I do this with 308. it's tight, but go slow and it works well. I had a hell of a time using the full length sizer with the expander (getting the expander stuck in a couple of cases), I ended up buying the collet die to avoid this. the lee full length sizer does way undersize the neck, I emailed lee about reaming out a full length sizer turning into a body die (a la redding), but they couldn't grasp why I wanted to do this. the redding body die costs as much as a set of lee dies... I use a lee classic turret press. I do find that the collet die sizing the neck gives me much better results when seating bullets, as the necks are sized .002 under, which many consider optimal (you can buy undersized mandrels from lee).

@Benjamin Kirsch all is fine if it's work for you. For making a body die from a lee, why not drill a hole that match the outside off your neck (i don't know the diameter off a .308 once it's fired)? I think it could be possible since you pass in the neck die afterward and don't have to be .001 precise? I didn't know that lee make smaller mandrel, i reduce mine my self with a bench drill press and sharpening stones. I think i have search to do to see if i can find it in france or in Europe all this small things are not stocked by our dealers in general and are almost impossible to buy except at horriffic prices.

I went ahead and tested this with some 223 range brass I picked up. I lubed the brass like usual before running it in the full full length die and then used imperial dry neck lube before expanding it with the collect die. I don't have a concentricity gauge but the neck inside diameter and shoulder bump were consistent and I didn't ruin any pieces of brass.

Not in 6.5 creedmoor. I have used them for other calibers and worked ok.

Knowing what I know now I wouldn’t have got them. I bought them 2 years ago at a gun show for super cheap. I always new I would reload eventually so I started buying supplies and equipment as deals popped up

+Mike Carlson yes I use Sinclair expander almost exclusively along with a FL die. It's a extra step, but I haven't found anything as consistent. Just me though.

+Mike Carlson I have both Sixers. I plan on doing a test shortly do determine if one neck tension is optimal. My results might be skewed though since i anneal every load.

So would i used the same type s bushing for size then expand with the mandrel after?

+Mike Carlson essentially yes.... I have not have has as good of luck maintaining my concentricty with the bushing dies as the FL dies though.

But you dont use the expander ball in the fl dies right

I am pretty sure its Hornady brass.

Hello, What press are you using, what bump gauge, what are you using to anneal?

@@BoltActionReloading Holy crap, thanks for replying! I have an RCBS rock chucker supreme, hornady head space gauges. Ive found if I half way resize them it'll bump them longer, then I fully swing the press for a second time it resizes them okay ish between .0015-.0035.

I know I'm doing something wrong, I'm very new to this

@@BoltActionReloading also I anneal using a drill, with a torch with tempilaq 750

I am confused by your statement, and I did not catch how you are annealing. Did you watch my video how to set up your die? There should be no reason for a half stroke. Is your die against your shell holder so your out of adjustment? As much detail as you can stand will help.

I dont own 6.5 creedmoor rcbs dies. I have some in other calibers but didn't include them.

Bolt Action Reloading k thanks I have 4 and the Redding

HI Ben, I don't remember saying you can't but I was completely unaware that they did this service. I may have one done and do a video on it then. Thank you for the input. Looks like its about $8 and right now a minium of a month. I guess with the quality of the die I am still saying that the Forster is still a better value. I can't find a bullet that the stem doesn't work for.

i agree the forster is better, not necessarily the better value. i do think that lee, forster, and maybe hornady are some of the best value in reloading equipment. it would be interesting to see the runout with the lee dead length seater die. the AMU (Army Marksmanship Unit), published some articles awhile back about minimizing run out using standard dies. they show you can get total indicated run out down to 0.001-0.003, which is still better than factory match ammo (i've seen articles indicating around 0.005 for factory match ammo). i don't know if you've seen this article by laurie holland (www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1750), it's a 3 way press comparison. pretty interesting the run out results, also shows where he measured FGMM ammo and where i got the 0.005 tir. i don't usually reply to youtube videos, but your's are interesting, you test and show your results, good, bad or indifferent. keep up the good work and you've gained another subscriber!

+Benjamin Kirsch thanks for subscribing, I hope you enjoy the channel. I will have to check out that article. In terms of value, I am just referring that you can pick up the bench rest set for 80 sometimes a little less and be done. No games to play with stems, or waiting a month plus $16 to ship and hey a working stem. Plus the decaping stem in the sizing die is too big and the machining isn't good, yes it's $4, but I would rather pay the money, not waste time as be up and going instead of trying to get the die to where I expect it to be. Just me though

No

Lately rcbs has slipped. They got sold and now there quality standards have been reduced. In my opinion

I’ve found the opposite, replaced all my Lee with Hornady and Redding