***Update 2 years later*** Since this video keeps popping in and out of the algorithm. Baiken? She got made more accessible and normal, hardly as difficult as she used to be. Juri? She's basically a completely normal character now in SF6, just build store and go, and you can still use her moves without it. Angel? Difficult as ever, and people keep trying her and bouncing off near immediately. She's the only one who has kept her difficulty since this video was made.
I don't know, I've always mained Baiken in Ggxxac+r, as well as samurai shodown. Not very big on the idea of bringing more attention to her boobs, definitely prefere the classic dirty look, but the samurai shodown look is pretty good. The main problem I have with the new design direction of her outfit is that I can't really play her with my little brothers.
Ivy in Soul Calibur 2/3/4 was absolutely in this mold too. She was a stance switcher who had a full character's worth of moves for each stance. In SC4 she had FIVE stances, and even BnB combos with her required switching between stances mid-combo. To be fair, they toned her down for SC5, but in reality they toned -everyone- down. She was still more complex than most characters on the roster.
Ivy was my main girl up to SC4 but I felt they dummed her down a lot. Summon Suffering went from a complex finger motion to just qcb+P - destroyed all the effort I'd put into her in the previous two outings
I've always had a thing for short-haired girls and when KOF 2001 Angel caught my attention. Having a background in Tekken, Angel's move list didn't really bother me, but she just didn't feel right for me in 2k1. However I started using Angel in 2k2 when a friend of mine showed me her strengths and from there on she's a staple in my team even if I can't do her infinite.
Hey wait a minute. Baiken is a defensive character? Strive is my first GG and here I am playing a guy for the first time ever because all the girls are full unga bunga
I believe Baiken is a bit of an interesting case though as she wasn't originally meant to draw people in or be beginner friendly. After all she was a secret character in the original Guilty Gear, who you must unlock by finishing Arcade Mode with a certain character without continuing. Makes sense for her having a bit of a weird playstyle. At least compared to Juri who was all over Super IVs marketing.
You also don't have to learn EVERYTHING about the character, just a few setups and executions that work for you. A good comparison is the 120+ moves that a Tekken character has when, 95% of the time, anyone worth their scruff in the match will only utilize the twenty-or-so that matter for scenarios. In fact, EVERY Tekken character is potentially this kind of character - but it's lateral depth rather than vertical depth. Baiken is not a hard character though - she's basically "sexy Geese Howard without fireballs."
Cool idea Leading to “Congratulations on winning the tournament! Why did you choose her as your main?” Boo-LOOPS! The loops... “But you don’t do those loops..” ...Mind game. XD
Giovanna from strive is a good example of the opposite effect a lot of people play Giovanna cause I mean look at her. And she's the perfect character to learn the games systems, she plays aggressive, she's easy to combo with, and she gets extra perks as her super meter fills that helps close the skill gap.
True, i got into strive mainly cuz of happy chaos, but i quickly found out gun man hard, i started playing with giovanna, learned all that jazz with the games ans after about 30 hours i switched to chaos, its a great design
“Baiken is a very defensive character “ Jokes on you im into that shit!!!!! In all seriousness im glad they make those kind of characters hard to use. Its like a self balancing tool.
Elphelt is what happens when you make the big tiddie waifu easy to use. Like yeah the fan service was nice, but the appeal kind of goes away after you run into the 10th one of the day. This isn't even including how much of a pain in the ass it is to fight her.
Allow me to bastardize a metal gear quote to illustrate “fighting game character popularity” in relation to the playability of the character. “It's a sexy girl, I'll give You that. But the Large breasts give You no tactical Advantage Whatsoever"
Whenever I play vanilla KOF 02' and my opponent picks Angel, there's two scenarios: -I get mixed-up to hell and back, and when I get hit I eat a ToD. -They don't use her full arsenal and barely put out much pressure. Free round if my braincells are on. There's no middle ground.
my own conspiracy theory: the fan service characters are intentionally made hard to use so that when the game is streamed by players or shown during tournaments or other high profile events they never get seen. That way the game can supply the horny without turning away the mainstream
Tournaments is where pro players play, why do you say they won't use a hard character? It's exactly the place where you would expect these hard characters
*almost a year later update* Angel is just as difficult as ever in KoF XV, however Baiken got ultra simplified and she got turned into a offensive pressure kinda character with her entire defensive portfolio simplified into one basic counter. I guess arcsys wants to turn "baiken mains" into actual baiken mains. No SF6 yet so we will have to see about juri :-0
As many others have stated, devs likely use sex appeal to bait male players with female characters that are hard to play and master. But in Ángel's case, the secret and particular reason she's hard to play, has likely something to do with the EVOGA Mexican employee that beat a bunch of SNK devs at their own KOF games, in two different occasions. Because of the bet they lost, the SNK staff possibly chose to make Ángel an interesting, but complicated fighter to use, since the real guy she's named after was a talented KOF player himself. No point in making a character very boring and easy to learn, when the actual person that is to thank for her creation could master KOF characters better than some of their developers. It would go against the core of her "origin story" to be a fighter accessible to beginners and average players. She's supposed to be for talented and dedicated fighting gamers that want some real challenge and play KOF at hardcore levels. As to why she's sexy, well, among all the designs real life Ángel was given to chose from to create the Ángel fighting character, the one that made it to the final version of the game was personally picked by him. He fell for her at first sight and didn't struggle making his choice.
I love that this video memes on all the people saying these easy to play characters are hard. I wals playing counter characters back when i first started playing fighting games, amd those unchained combos are easy enough to memorize. There is absolutely nothing more satisfying that countering potemkin in xrd and sending him ten feet into the air. And juri is incredibke feeling to play, and they made her even more fun in sfv. And no, i am seriously maining these characters, because hard fought battles are much more satisfying than, oh, i pressed qcf square and i won.
Its not even just booba. Tekken's Lei, who is based on Jackie Chan a popular action movie star, doesn't have that many players because he wasn't strong for a while and has a lot of stance. But people really really wanted him back when he wasn't in T7's original roster.
@@fightclub571 Tekken has a lot of players. What's your point? Go look up ranked character popularity. Lei sits 43 out of 50 currently. And even in the previous seasons have never went above 40.
Literally the only Tekken character I wanted in 7. Still disappointed to this day. I could care less If they gave us every waifu the fans wanted. Lei was the most fun character to play for me every Tekken game...
@@MageKirby thanks to normies. Someone has to fall short. The reason he isn't included is he has more moves than most and doesn't have clones or share many moves with other characters. Another reason why Tekken 7 is the worst roster thus far
@@leestrz4153 king and armor king has a lot moves as well but they are popular. Maybe people didnt give a shit about him but wanted him because he is legacy?
Baiken's design was heavily inspired by Himura Kenshin of Rurouni Kenshin. Character designer Daisuke Ishiwatari stated that he got the idea when he saw a picture of Kenshin and mistook him for a woman. The name "Baiken" is likely named after Baiken Shishido, an Edo period samurai.
Here, where I live, waiting for garbage trucks can be very schizophrenic, they can come from 4 am to 10pm, one of 4 days in a week, and if you forgot to get out the trash cans/bags, you had to wait from tomorrow, up to two weeks later
I remember seeing Angel back in the day and basically doing this exactly, almost dying cause of her moveset... and then I committed and she is now my go to point.
You should do a video called: Fighting Game Characters That Online Players Underestimate. Bo Rai Cho from MKX is a perfect example. Everyone thinks he stinks and is a dumb character, so nobody plays him. But his mixup game and near unpredictability make him an absolute powerhouse in the right hands
@@cctz_1 I like how straightforward and honest her kit is. It's basic which gives her a low skill floor but in a couple ways how basic her kit is gives Gio players a lot of skill expression at higher levels.
The fact I have to become a badass to actually main the cool hot female character (Baiken, Mina, Juri, Yuzuriha, Bullet, etc.) just makes it EVEN BETTER!!!!!!
Bullet isn't really a hard character to play. It's just that she has terrible matchups into pretty much every popular character in her game. If more people played the niche characters she'd perform far better.
As an actual Juri player it bugs me when people talk about how they main her in street fighter but either don't play the game or have only played it for 5 minutes
As a long time Juri main in SF4, I couldn't bear to play as her in SF5. None of her moves really pop and she's kinda dry gameplay wise imo This made me choose Cammy as the legs queen instead
Fighting games have a huge coomer fanbase it makes perfect sense that many people enjoy fighting games for the aesthetics. Allot of the cute female characters end up having the most causal filter play styles lmao
Jack'O both in Xrd and Strive. The fact she is Sol's GF makes people even like her to the point of "Gorilla protect waifu" bs thing lol. I swear my friend just gushing so hard on Jack'O (when Xrd was released, he really REALLY likes her but also hates her for not able to unmask her because how such a fine beauty she is, Strive allows her to be unmasked and boy was he happy) and there's me with zero Gulilty Gear experience, having a vs match while im using Axl listening to his ramblings while im getting my ass kicked. Twice. One of them is using the new girl Elphelt because "I got her in this epic mobile game called Girls Frontline" Lets just say I lost both physically and mentally. Get my ass kicked in game, and got overwhelmed by his.... passionate ramblings.
I always liked the _idea_ of playing Angel way more than actually playing her. I love her goofy wrestling theme but I was never a fan of her voice actor, so I'll never put in the time to actually learn her stuff.
@@marcjehle2480 Ha, I mained Honoka in DOA5, and she has the most ANNOYING theme imo. (I did change the music settings for her and a lot of other characters though)
Loved the new Juri costume inspired in high school japanese gangs. Angel's coolest lore is that she was created because the guys at SNK lost a KoF money match to another developer
So I have been thinking about this phenomenon in fighting games. The super popular sexy character everyone loves(and everyone says they "main") but the second they try to go at the character, its way too hard! What is it with these characters that easily draw people in, but are actually way harder to use than normal?
Good video. You need a part 2. Add Makoto, everyone bitching about her not being in V but NO FUCKING ONE PLAYED HER IN 4. Also, Mileena, Iroha, strider,
I have to disagree with you on Angel, who I think only becomes off putting due to KOF's three on three system. If she was playable in a one on one fighting game I think it would be very different outcome. I say this as someone who mains Yoshimitsu, who I imagine you know is a Swiss army knife of wacky moves. I find that you actually wrap your head around their options, these characters never get boring to play as you can just change how you play on the fly. baiken appears to be like Setsuka who is all about counters and whiff punishment. That can be a problem if you're in a mirror match with both of you are waiting for the other player to be aggressive, which isn't Setsuka's strong point. Juri definitely is the weird one, that gimmick of her looks unsatisfying to use, which reminds me of Hwang's lifeforce gimmick in SC6.
It’s funny because I dont really like Angel as a character but she’s one of the most fun characters to play for me. Vanessa is one of my absolute favorites all around tho
The best part about playing these characters is that they are always gonna come back no matter what but no one will actually play them which means that no one knows what to do against them.
@@Ramoriaa You say that, but Angel specifically did not appear in any KOF game after 2002 all the way until KOFXIV. That's around 14 years of not being in the roster of the newest installment of the series.
In a weird, twisted sense, the sexy characters are your goal. You come into the game as a newbie, get completely backhanded with said sexy character, Practice the character for months if not years and then accomplish your goal by doing so. A goal that nobody wants to actually achieve in a 5 minute horny state.
Ok so I've never seen angel or whatever her name is, but seeing that people's elbow does make me wanna player her, but even I can't be arsed learni g all that and I'm now new.
Nakaruru: A character that has been one of the front faces of SamSho since its inception, but plays like a weirdo and has been considered a competitively underpowered in most of her games, so learning her doesn't feel especially rewarding.
The badass hardened big asset female character is honestly a fighting game trope. Ivy is another one thats decently hard to use compared to the rest of the cast. And any Iajutstu samurai girl as well. Always have 2 big things about them and some weird mechanic to troll the thirsty bois Luckily I play the Sporty girl trope like Asuka or Yuri and they’re usually easy to pick up or a Shoto
Does Sakura counts @nastara? I found difficult learning Asuka while I can breeze through Yuri lol. But then again, Yuri moves are pretty much Shoto with some Kyokugen stuff (the HCF + forward thing)
I actually have a friend who legitimately mains Juri. He wasnt sure who he wanted to play in 4 and one match reluctantly decided to try Juri, because he didnt want to be lumped in as "one of those people", and he ended up really liking the moveset. He scares me with how good he is.
_Plays Angel and Baiken_ Wow, I feel special. Not gonna knock it. I played Baiken because he counters are BS. and Angel... meh, largely for the eye candy but stayed for the mixups I could get in KOF14. (I still suck at KOF because 4 button fighter kek) Great video and keep up the content.
I play all of these characters since they released and I legitimately refuse to play anyone else. They are all my favorites and will be to the end of time. Girl power!
That's very funny cause she's not even good sure she may be easy but holy crap is she bad and when I say bad I mean flawed and also you have to micromanage energy and her goons so I wouldn't say she's easy to use.
Being honest here, the fact that Baiken is a bit of a harder character makes me really want to learn her that much more. And believe it or not booba is not really the main reason I like her, its the Akira Kurosawa esc openings/finishes and the whole samurai angle that I love, I like Nago for the same reason.
Me a Makoto main finding out she’s #2 on Capcom’s popularity ranks.... I only ever saw 3 Makotos on my whole life time and 1 was a guy picking her to spite me and I beat his ass. There was one Canadian Makoto that we shared tech with one another.
I have a hard time believing that because as you've said no one ever plays her and I have never once seen her in a piece of fanart, which is generally a healthy indication of popularity in the modern day. I have even seen Ingrid from Capcom Fighting Mix fanart, but not Makoto fanart.
Ivy in Soul Calibur 2 was exactly this. By the time I got her command throw down I was just starting to realize that I’d never be able to create openings for it and execute it when I wanted to. Maxi and his million stances ended up being my favorite mashing character.
The discrepancy between what characters are being played compared ones that are globally popular is just an example of how the fgc is just a fraction of people who love and grew up with these games and characters. U make a good point on making popular characters more accessible (i.e. like Lili from Tekken). I think the thing about Baiken and Angel is that they were designed at a time before it may have been known what kind of characters would be globally popular from a Japanese person's perspective in between the years 1999-2001. Angel is the most obvious of these examples because she is so far in the direction of obscure design, no new player was ever going to pick her up day one and feel competent at the game. She's far too technical. She seemed more like a character for fighting game nerds who like to lab and also appreciate a nice view (like myself). In other words, cheesecake (fanservice) doesn't necessarily mean the character was meant to be globally popular. I think Angel has been in a total of 3 fighting games (4 if u count KOF 02UM) and only one of them was canonical. So if shes popular, its in a small vacuum. Another example of this sort of "fighting-game-nerd-who-likes-cheesecake" style character design, is Hanzo from Yatagarasu (also designed by the same guy i think). Creative/awkward gameplay mechanics, but she's super nice to look at.
I do actually disagree, because the players just getting the game for the popular character will a) not even get in the first place, they just wanna say that they like a character b) bounce off the character, but stick with the game, which is still fine anyway c) just stick through and main them anyway I feel that unpopular characters should be alot more easy to play, while popular ones are harder. If the popular ones are easy to play, new players will never feel like sitting down and actually learning the character or the game. I also think that the difficult attractive character is like a weird horny-check from the devs. Basically them saying "sure, you are allowed to play this character, but you have to work your ass of for it". And hell, sometimes the character isn't even hard to play, sometimes they're just weird. Android 21 comes to mind. Super basic all things considered, but her absorb stuff is weird. Just my two cents in that regard.
lol its like a self balancing tool and i love it. It teaches players that yeah she may look good, but very few can handle that thiccness. Ivy, pre-mk11 mileena, iroha, nina. All hard characters that are fun to use imo
I disagree because the following will most likely apply: 1.) Be attracted to the game by the popular characters in the first place 2.) Learn the character and fundamentals no matter how easy they are 3.) Is 2 doesn't apply, they would probably play casually anyway, which is ok too. It is also important to consider the fact that not everyone is attracted to the same characters. Some people may be interested in playing the game because of Axl Low in GG, Meitenkun in KOF, or even FANG in SFV. Characters are probably the main attraction to FGs other than the gameplay itself, so it is important that people are able to easily understand a character that will appeal to them. Learning the game will be hard no matter who you play anyway, so there is no real harm in making a cool or sexy character easy to play, especially if they are popular.
I play Baiken, she’s absolutely terrifying once you get her pressure going. She has to play defensively to condition the opponent and build tension, but when she goes on the offense, she can be absolutely monstrous
I actually didn't even care about Baiken until I learned how dope her defense is. I love it when a character can be played defensively and still be fun as hell
These sexy-but-weird characters are the developer's way of giving new players a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. It doesn't really work though because people willing to play weird characters are asexual ascended immortal monks who walk amongst the FGC as mere mortals to keep the Ken and Ky players from overwhelming everything.
As a Baiken main, I've been going hard learning all her options in the training mode and grinding in online matches The booba lures in, the gameplay grips you forever
Because of Angel's zany complex shit, its hella entertaining to watch online matches and watch her just go to town in one massive combo. Yeah, her voice is grating, but by god nothing quite encapsulates KoF combo nonsense like her. (Except for all those KOF 13 Evo videos of Flame!Iori or Mr. Karate, but let's not think about those mistakes.)
God I wanted to main him. Then I find out he's a zoner and wanted to use him even more. Then the game punishes you for using him by making everybody able to walk over him like Broly did in the movie.
As a Zamasu player, I kind of understand where you're coming from. I have done a fully charged 236S after a jump only for a grounded super dash to clip the edges of the animation leading to a full punish for me. Has something like that ever happened to you with freiza?
But if the hardest characters to play are also the non-fan favorites, no one would pick them, right? If you want to invest countless hours into learning a difficult character it might as well be a super sexy character. That's just the icing on the cake.
The joke about Angel's lore is hilarious given that if you actually look into the lore, you find out she's just...the worst and one of the most vile still alive characters in universe due to her willingly working with NESTS & never showing remorse for it. Funny how that happens. That said, she was fun to mess with actually learning for week or two back in _KOF 2002_ even if the Unchain system is so complex that I would never personally main her. This is coming from someone who has played a decent chunk of both Baiken and Juri too due to finding their mechanics interesting as well. I guess I'm just a masochist given I know it's not the thirst for me personally.
I think the logic is that if a character is designed to be extremely difficult to play, you better make the character extra appealing if not nobody would want to play them in the first place.
Not only that, but why punish people who genuinely enjoy more complex characters? I can understand Roofle's logic from a purely commercial standpoint, but from a fanbase perspective I find it a bit shallow.
No one designs a character to be unappealing, no one goes "this character is weird, let's not rope newbies into playing a character they probably won't understand by giving them a cool design"
Me: Ah yes, the Mexican KoF character... AN - gel Rooflemonger: ann HELL Me: (Gasps in Spanish) Great Video though. I had not noticed this scenario lol
I main Juri and I legit like that her V-Trigger lets you cancel normals and it's still my favorite mechanic and pressure tool in SFV and in SFIV; I like hearing my friends panic when the engine is going since they are about to deal with a bunch of nonsense I also liked SFIV negative edge (and Falke for that matter since they are similar) version just because people don't know you have a fireball waiting or not (Falke's is more player facing though i.e. shows the charge) like negative edge moves make more sense to my brain than charge characters
I actually like defensive characters like Baiken, Jubei, Hakumen and so on. I mained Steve in Tekken mainly because of his evasive maneuvers and I've noticed that I don't do kicking all that much to begin with. I wouldn't call myself a Baiken main though, GuiltyGear has the problem that it has too many interesting characters,...please never fix that "flaw" Arc System Works. :D
One thing this video doesn't mention is how truly scary are the real mains of these characters: Good Baikens never willfully get priority unless is to bait, and this means you can't rush into her, try to get a projectile hit and even try to poke her because you know she can AND will counter everything you throw at her. Yuri with her special imput basically doesn't follow the rules of the game everyone else plays, like he said. In both SF IV and V she essentially screws over anyone who can't/doesn't know how to counter her, and so any character that isn't a Zoner is gonna have an hard time.
I'm glad you didn't say that these hot characters shouldn't be made. I'm all for having more amazing waifu that are actually easy to play. Kinda why I enjoy Granblue Vs.
im all for the sexy character, I just think they need to move away from the sexy character being one of the more mechanically difficult characters. If you trying to hit mass appeal, just embrace it.
@@rooflemonger Then it could be like how the main characters mained. Like ryu and ken, kyo and iori, sol and ky. It is quite rare to see sol and ky in ggs matches by comparison.
When first played her all that execution was a shock and i loved, but with the patchs namco changed her to be less "execution heavier" wich i was a bit disapointed but still love play her. Do a cd in the middle of the combo just to use one bar was marvelous, but maybe i fell that because i was never into 2d fighting games, soo after an entire life playing tekken it's really hard get into 2d when i can't use an 3d stage to move around.