Unarmed Fighting Is Completely Insane in D&D 

I am seriously tempted to make this as my next character! I don't make 'silly' characters much but a killer spider that can headbutt things to death is just too good to pass up! 🤣

I thought Natural Weapons *did* count towards your unarmed strikes since you're still not armed? So a vampire monk can't use martial arts for the bite attack??

@@monsunoguy19 Nope. Any natural weapon is not an unarmed strike unless the weapon specifically says otherwise.

@@dalepalmitier7114 Damn that's tough

@@monsunoguy19 Indeed. One quirk of the ways they are written, however, is that the Dhampir **can** use their Martial arts die for the damage of their Vampiric Bite, simce it states that it cpunts as a simple melee weapon your proficient with, making it a monk wrapon, but the wording also means it uses your CON modifier instead of DEX.

True! If you go monk to level 2, your spider can sprint as fast as a fully grown human, and climb twice as fast!

@@DnDShorts Just like real life!

Id rather wild shape into a kangaroo and kickbox someone to death like a warner bros cartoon.

Bear is approaching at a high velocity.

@@deadknight1402 Here comes the pain train.

Had the same reaction!

I was thinking the same thing haha

Imagine a normal huntsman spider jump at your head and when it hits you you feel your skull crack.

Yep. The bull spider from the northern territory.

@@choboibigly6565 Called it.

Make it moon Druid, and you can also take on a large form! Brown Bear with a bonus action 1d8 punch is pretty good damage, and at later levels you could be an Earth elemental for a Giant form

But can you crawl into the big bads ass and wildshape back to caster form, exploding them from the inside out?

Yeah is this real? Can I get a page number? Every table I've ever ran had somebody that was into grappling a little too much... Future generations will be joyed...

I remember there being rules for this back in 3.5, I do believe...though it's normally thought of in the "human vs. larger creature" sense, not "tiny critter to human" sense.

So the DMG is full of optional rules that people don't know about. It makes the game way more dynamic

This is the tightest shit I've ever heard. The Meruem comparison really sold it for me.

@@Drekromancer I made a Lizardfolk a while back that was a pure Fighter with that style and the Echo Knight subclass to basically just be every anime ever in one XD

You can twerk someone to death too lol

Could you also grapple with that tail?

@@mkhanson1440 Depends technically on the DM. None of the races (to my knowledge) have a true RAW opposable tail, but my DM was nice enough to allow it if I got my Dex high enough. Too bad for us all that was the most busted character I ever made (partially because we rolled for stats), and I had 18 in dex and str very early in addition to a 20 CON. So I was pretty much playing a cannibal Frieza that was slowly turning towards being lawful good.

It does carry over, bit its rare that it would be better than what a full druid could shift into 5 levels in a martial is a big investment. Being that many levels higher in druid gives more options for bigger creatures with multiattack From an optimization perspective, only real multiclass options for someone wildshape focused are - 1 Monk: for wis based Unarmed Defense - 1 to 3 Barbarian: Rage, Con based unarmed defense, Reckless Attack, possible totem. - 2 Paladin: Divine Smite on natural attacks. (Questionable RAW, natural attacks may not qualify as 'weapons') Personally, I find 2 barb is sufficient until higher druid levels. You dont want to delay progress towards the duration and CR of wildshape

@@sriousprobs477 What exactly are the CR1 beasts providing the Monk in your example? Is your Dex less than the spiders? If so, why? For that matter; what is the fighting style contributing as your martial arts die scales? Not to mention the fact you likely need the ASI to upgrade Dex, Con, or Wis If you are dedicating that many monk levels, neither of these are of significant value. If you are hoping to spider climb as a monk, why not slippers of spider climbing? They're only uncommon rarity - and do not depend on your 2 hour a day max limit of wildshape (which already assumes nothing damages you out of being a spider). It may be stylish, but its not exactly a strong mix. Low level wildshape doesnt scale to higher levels, which makes multiclassing more than a couple levels away from druid questionable from an optimization perspective

@@TheGaboom I agree, if you plan on wildshaping often at most 3 levels for really powerful subclass features is the maximum I would go. Something like resistance to everything but psychic damage and such. Monk is at most a 1 level dip as 1nd level mainly gives ki points and useless unless you take more levels. Monk subclasses are also lacking most of the time. Getting unarmored defense that is better than the natural one from your beasts is a plus.

@@sriousprobs477 Im sorry you didnt expect much depth from my reply. But my initial comment was made from an optimization perspective, so i expected any counter-arguments to be made in the same light. Yes. If you're talking pure style, sure. An Astral Monk mixing with druid is kind of neat. But such a statement isnt an optimization perspective Not sure why you assume im trying to flex. I just happen to enjoy book diving and measuring/calculating the details of different builds. I was legitimately curious for your reasoning in mixing them after considering the limitations and costs. Maybe you'd seen some mechanical interaction i hadnt considered But again, that is just from an optimization perspective. If youre just talking style, there is nothing wrong with that - You do you. But since style is wholly subjective, there's not much room for a convo surrounding optimization to go from there.

@@sriousprobs477 "Why can't I just say shit online without anyone responding to me??" Try a diary instead of the internet? Your build was suboptimal and it's important people know that so they can set their expectations appropriately. Now please don't respond to me. I'm not looking for a conversation, I just want you to appreciate my comment silently. 🤡

Spider-spider-spider-man, Spider-spider-spider-man, does whatever a Spider-spider-spider can Can they swing from a web, no, but they can punch! Looooookout, here comes a Spider-spider-spider-man!

Flavour wise this is amazing, mechanical wise this seems like a nightmare

And then the ancient dragon uses his breath weapon and you get fucked out of your spider form right away because you're just a regular spider with 1 HP.

make em a fire genasi to add to the nightmare fuel, cuz whats scarier than a werewolf with fire claws, a were wolf made entirely of fire lol

@@ticozayas6430 except their claws. Those are made of ice.

This is fucking awful I love it

What in the Bloodborne

What in the hunter's dream is going on here

They're pretty lacking, but it's a great place to start for Attack on Titan shenanigans!

I’m pretty sure those rules are optional from the DMG so I recommend checking with your DM

@@thecharmer5981 I'm pretty sure all rules are optional

@@troyhenry6111 Some are more optional than others.

@@ODDnanref so I'm not wrong and you just bolstered my point?

Same bro FR it's awesome

Stab em with a leg? They pin down flies with those so a "kick" maybe?

You'd have to talk to your DM about this sort of thing. Arguments could be made for either side...

...they have a head, legs, and a body. What else is a requirement for headbutts?

he said headbutt not punches. Unarmed strikes can be whatever part of your body.

@@Elessar0wind even a 🐿 can punch

@@thomasace2547 not a spider. Sorry. Come up with something that actually makes sense.

Not hard considering it has human intelligence

@@Ashtor1337 So assuming a spider has human intelligence, would it be easy to climb on your body within your sight? Of course not, at least it needs ability check contest against you.

@@Zynovus , can a halfling sneak up and stab you with out you seeing it? Now imagine something the size of a spider. How many times have you seen some one get a spider on them and freak out. Literally millions of videos exist. Now imagine if one of those spiders understood how to sneak and use stealth. As a mundane animal they get on us all the time. It's really simple if you just stop and think about it.

@@Ashtor1337 You are missing the point here. No matter how good/proficiency/expertise the PC can stealth, it still requires ability check contest for being successfully stealth. The nature of the task require ability check, which means that it's not an easy task like walking in 5e that doesn't need any checks. Of course, adding more class features or spell effects can make stealth check more achievable. The same logic here for using "climb onto a bigger creature" rule, the smaller PC needs to win the ability contest to move into a larger enemy's body for advantage attack. This advantage attack bonus does not come from being stealth, but it's from successfully positioning itself into enemy's body.

Astral Monk is the least stupid justification for this working in-universe, imo. It's a little silly to think that a tarantula could headbutt a grown man so hard that it kills him instantly. However, it's entirely reasonable to assume that the spider's Stand could still punch just as hard as usual, since it's not tied to physical ability.

Yes.

It means, like, you can't fly if you're an Aarakocra but you Wildshape into a wolf. The wolf doesn't have the wings, therefore it can't fly.

the pulling one only procs once per turn buddy.

@@koalabro6118 I never said otherwise "buddy"

@@THEPELADOMASTER That is true. I just thought you weren't aware because it read as though you thought you'd be able to wiggle them back and forth a bunch for a ton of damage. Don't get me wrong because you're still right that Warlock the best at cheese-grating enemies. I seem to have struck a nerve with you though? I'm not the best at parsing intention through text alone, so if I've upset you I'm sorry, and if I haven't then I'm sorry for assuming I did!

Raptor swarm anyone?

Monks CAN use weapons, you know...They can still do all of their monk things using any simple weapon or a shortsword. After level 2 (with the optional Dedicated Weapon feature), they can also use any other non-heavy weapon they are proficient with, such as racial proficiencies with longswords and longbows that an elf gets or the axes and hammers that dwarves get, or whichever weapons you pick with the weapon master feat. A monk in one of my groups is running around with a Staff of Defense (Lost Mine of Phandelver), so they can cast Shield to boost their AC and they just whack everything with the staff, then follow up with a kick for their bonus action attack. In any case, you are incorrect about monks not getting enchanted equipment. See the Insignia of Claws (Hoard of the Dragon Queen) and Bracers of Defense (Basic Rules), for example. The insignia increases unarmed attacks and damage (and is perfect for a monk/druid build), while the bracers give a +2 AC if you are unarmed and not using a shield, which is exactly what monks need to be doing to use most of their features. These items exist, and seriously, how hard is it to homebrew items like them to keep pace with enhancements that other classes get on their gear?

Yeah, I guess it’s funny to have a combo like this, but an average of 12 damage per turn, enough to kill a grown man (commoner) which of course a house cat can do strictly by the rules, just isn’t very impressive as fun as the energy of the video may be

@@KillerOfWhales Damage isn't everything you know...You can do an average of 12 damage per turn as a TINY spider that is also capable of crawling under doors and through very small cracks, as well as climbing up walls and across ceilings. Also, that average damage enough to kill pretty much any 1/8 CR creature, and the max damage is more than enough to take out most 1/4 CR and some 1/2 CR creatures as well. With some careful planning, you can wipe out an entire bandit camp without ever being seen, alone, as a tiny little spider. So what is more impressive...a paladin stomping up to the front entrance of an enemy lair and hitting one of the guards for an average of 19 damage with a greatsword + smite, which they can only do twice, or the spider thing above? How about the sneaky rogue firing an arrow from the bushes to deal an average of 13.5 with a shortbow + sneak attack, then still having to find ways into the place without being seen. Nobody is going to be looking for the spider, nor will anyone think twice about it if they happen to see it, but your full-sized rogue person is definitely going to get attention if they are spotted.

@@daltigoth3970 It’s fun, sure, but it’s not impressive. There’s utility to it, definitely. But it’s not the best way to even make use of this multiclass or to accomplish this concept. I’m just taking issue with the tone of the video acting like this is some huge exploit than that it doesn’t actually do anything remarkable

@@KillerOfWhales Nothing is really impressive at level 3, so I don't know why you are taking such issue with this. The "impressive" part is the fact that you are doing this as a TINY spider, like a real-world wolf spider, which is going to be near-impossible for your enemies to identify as the source of the attacks, yet you are still able to output the same amount of damage you could as a full-size person. What concept are you thinking is trying to be accomplished here? This is a stealth/assassin build, and it absolutely is better than most anything else available at 3rd level. Not the best way to make use of the multiclass? That depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the multiclass, because this absolutely is the best way to make an assassin out of it since anything else you might try to do with it is going to either significantly larger and thus easier to spot. The problem isn't the tone of the video, its your expectations and your inability to reevaluate those expectations after being presented with the material. You were expecting some ungodly amount of damage output per round, but that's not what this build is about. It is about a solid amount of damage being done by a nearly imperceptible character.

Doesn't work unfortunately as you need to attack with a finesse or ranged weapon... unless of course you sufficiently bribe your DM to allow it :^)

yes that's what my first thought was as well.

Unarmed attacks don't require your hands to be free, you dont even need to use your hands at all :) give the guy a good kick or tail slap if your character has one.

Okay but why are you a giant killjoy? It's not like it's actually broken, it's just funny. Going straight moondruid would actually increase the damage and sustainability a lot more. When you can't one-shot the enemy they slap you out if wildshape

Yup, it's utter nonsense and just blatant munchkinism.

Yeah, I'm with you, this seems like a lot of screwing around for a pretty whatever amount of damage for level 3. Is it just the novelty of killing someone as a tiny spider?

I like how you say "just be a brown bear" as if no other druids exist other than moon druid XD the damage I don't think is the main point. It's the fact that 2d8+4 is pretty decent and you're getting advantage permanently and you're a tiny creature that doesn't look out of place so you're probably guaranteed a surprise round by yourself. Bonus points for 2 levels in rogue to cunning action hide as a tiny spider XD Sneak attack sadly wouldn't work RAW I don't think, but that wouldn't be a broken house rule to consider martial arts equivalent to finesse on your hands.

Remember that brown bears are large creatures and might not be the greatest choice in a good number of situations. Also a lot of druid subclasses don't get access to brown bears until 8th level.

@@edwardhealey591 Ok? and spiders have 1 hp so much as a tickle and 4 levels of classes ends this trash combo Literally any single druid can just turn into a crocodile and do 1d10+2 damage AND restrain their target on a hit whilst being 19 times tankier, its a trash combo even for non moon druids bud

@@jamesdeacon9847 also a large creature that most don't have access to until later. Especially considering it has a swim speed and is very noticeable. Also in this case it is actually better to use the unarmed strike gimmick where damage is concerned and the grapple can still be done and DM dependant you can still do an extra 1d8+2 bonus attack while not being simply a dc 12 to escape but a contested roll. Simply the environment may not support such a strategy as you are not guaranteed to be in the completely open spaced area people are fond of using when jerking off over numbers but you could be in for example a 10ft wide corridor where you will be blocking off your party or being blocked off or a smaller space where you will have the same problems but you get disadvantage and all those lovely penalties as well. What if this is a stealth mission? What if you ran out of wildshapes and short resting isn't an option or your character doesn't know a good form for a situation? You cannot simply say this build is shit when you haven't considered all the options and this build even allows druids to have some measure of effectiveness in situations where they could otherwise be completely useless. If the hp is the issue then use something that isn't a cr0 tiny normal creature, there is a massive list of things available. Just talk to your dm. The spider is just an example of how ridiculous this combo is you can do it with pretty much any of the wildshapes. Best of all it actually works unlike some gimmicks

I think that the monk ability would overrule the fighting style rule since the purpose of the monk ability is to let you use str or dex

It works on dndb I think so I would think it's ok for all

the spider isn't punching; it's headbutting

In my view RAW is very clear. Martial arts has several bullet points. Unarmed Fighting lets you use a d8 +STR for unarmed strikes. This overrides your martial arts die for damage. Using Dex for unarmed strikes is a seperate bullet point, which says whenever you make an unarmed strike you can use dex in place of strength. If you couldn't replace STR with DEX here you wouldn't be able to do so on normal unarmed strikes either.

Yo get a loada this guy, he's obviously never been punched by a spider before.

You can't sneak attack with a unarmed atrike

its a little illogical