If there's anything video games have taught me, it's to never work for a private military outfit, because I and hundreds of my coworkers will be killed en masse by a sweaty white dude who wants to steal our client's Rolex or whatever
@@triambtalwar1393 I think you missed that he's not serious. He specifically said "what video games have taught me." And, while I can't speak for the original commenter concretely, I somehow get the feeling that he's fully aware that working for a PMC in real life is NOTHING like how it is portrayed in video games. Just a hunch though.
Rafe's motivation wasn't money; it was the prestige of the score. everybody, including himself, always held it against him that he got whatever he wanted because of his father/inheritance. He wanted merit for his own major achievement and this was it. also have to note he was very jealous of Nathan because he had recognition for his many adventures EDIT: I get you state this towards video's end but this was referring to your earlier greed comments you had
I personally didn't mind the lack of supernatural elements in this game. Made the game seem, somewhat mildly grounded by human motivation and how it can stretch the scale of a journey and/or situation.
I also think that the end of Libertalia was much more interesting story-wise than the previous lost cities, which were all destroyed by some supernatural curse making everybody insane, whereas human greed was enough to doom Libertalia. That strange zombie-curse from the first game led to some pretty intense gameplay moments and a lot of jumpscares, but seeing Libertalia initially presented as an utopia only to slowly uncover all the clues to the madness and cruelty underneath is a whole different kind of horror.
While i disagree with the supernatural bit it really shows how taste gets people to look at things in different lights, i myself love supernatural secret stuff and how sometimes it can be pulled off very well, but i agree so much with you where its so interesting how human greed can be both the reason for a good thing's creation and destruction
Rafe is honestly my favorite antagonists in the series. I always saw him as a rich kid that was sick of living in everyone's shadow, who wanted to do something on his own for once, and not be known for just his father's money. This becomes clear in the final fight where he lists of Nate's achievements, making his jealously plain. He seems much more human and more relatable than any other villain prior.
@@daph0307 Him being a loser is kinda the point. Rafe know's he a loser, he hates it, and he's frustrated at his lack of accomplishment, and how all he has was given to him.
Uncharted 4 ended on the perfect note for Nate. He had finally found the treasure he's been looking for. Elena and his daughter, a family living a dream on an island. It makes me cry just thinking about it.
Alan George it's best to point out the wrongs in the things you love rather than blindly praise it...and I just realized what I said made no fucking sense
Clossal is Keem of course it is, but the point is we over hyped it and expected way more out of it whereas no one expected much from uncharted 2 and when it released, it just blew everyone away. No.one expected uncharted 2 to get the reception it got.
@@zephyr6927 its a joke that Joseph made in his Uncharted 3 critique. Saying that Talbot is a cyborg, because the game never explains how he dissapears or how he survives the bullet shot
1:27:25 "The final boss is a sword fight. You block left, you block right, you attack. Pretty boring." ...Pretty boring? A *sword fight* in a burning ship with someone you pushed to lunacy while your brother is trapped (and likely dying) under a burning log is boring? Shit, that was one of the best parts in the game to me. I loved every second of it!
Señor Salty just beat the game last night and I thought it was pretty sick too. I think the main argument for it being bad is that it resorts to a completely different type of gameplay to make it happen, but it was definitely exciting
It's a glorified quick time event. You don't need to carefully avoid fire, you don't need to learn melee combat mechanics and tactics, you don't need to rush to Sam before he dies. All you do is block left, block right, attack.
You're right, I guess it just depends on whether you think that it being a glorified quick time event makes that part of the game bad/less exciting. This game isn't much for deep mechanics anyway, so I didn't mind the change and I thought the setpiece was cool.
@Mattchester And? As "final bosses" go, the sword fight i's consitent with the other games (as a "not really" a boss fight per se, but a story point being resolved) and by that point, I was so engrossed by the story and the visuals that my heart was pounding at every swing of the sword.
I loved this analysis. I didn't agree with absolutely everything you said, but I don't have to. This is still such a well-made and well-thought-out video and it deserves so many more views.
I thought it was pretty clear that the old lady was supposed to be a clear "this is what happens if you only care about searching for adventure and disregard your family" that nathan was brushing up against as he disregarded elana and only cared about searching for adventure.
Damn, I thought the sword fight with Rafe at the end of the game was fantastic. It was intense! The controls, the dialog, you could just feel every swing of the sword. So epic. One of my favorite boss fights.
I would’ve enjoyed a giant setpiece battle with swinging over and around the burning ship and giant waves and stuff. The fencing with Rafe felt a little lackluster.
I do really like how Sam's shirt when they escape the old women's house is the same one we see Nate wearing in UC3 as a child, albeit much older and worn but not for unknown reasons.
+Sleeper Dlc is some small almost irrelevant part of the game oftwn chopped off a finished product and sold piecemeal. Expansion is essentially a new, sometimes slightly shorter game using the same engine, and usually doesnt require the base game.
"Sets him up as kind of a scumbag" at 8:15 - I don't think so, I think he's supposed to represent that freedom, the hope and excitement of seeing that he's not been forgotten about. It also sets up Sam as the break-the-rules kind of guy he is.
Wouldn't mind seeing a video on that one, whenever you've gotten around to it. Also, going to add myself to your Patreon list. Your consistency and quality is well worth it.
Hey thanks so much! I think I got an email about that tonight. It was very generous and I really mean it when it allows me to make more videos. Especially the longer ones like this.
You lost me at Nadine being far more interesting than Rafe. Rafe is excellent and his excellence as a character is best demonstrated in the final battle where he says "everything was handed to me on a god damn silver platter. But not this. I earned this."
Awesome video as always. I'm actually kinda glad that I disagreed with you a fair bit - after 6 hours of top-notch videos I was getting really worried that there'd be nothing of value left for me to say about these games, but I'd say it's helped me refine my perspective instead of just being a perspective I can 100% agree with. And I'd consider that even more valuable.
The innocent "guards" at the auction were underlings of all the criminals gathered there. You mention yourself earlier the auction is illegal - literally only shady people and actual criminals are in attendance.
"It's all about money" I disagree. Sam wanted to finish his mother's work, something he's being trying since kids, and Rafe felt like he was always in the shadows of his parents, he wanted to accomplish something "on his own", something he could be credited for.
@@leonpaelinck Rafes jealousy and dislike for Nate is pretty obvious and Sam desperately wanted to finish this adventure with Nate. Like we have no idea on how to fill gaps or holes in but it's plainly obvious if they worked together there's no mate involved and Sam wanted Nate in on it. He said that the adventure was always theirs.
Also, small problem. Nate in the epilogue is probably just as old as Sully would have been back in Drake's Fortune, if not older. So that isn't a great way to bring back the games. In Uncharted 3, you can determine the exact ages of both Sully and Nate, more or less. During some of the banter in Chapter 6, you'll learn that Nate met Sully at the age of 15. If you remember the flashback from earlier in the game, you'll notice that occurred 20 years ago. So from this, you can tell that Nate is 35 years old during the events of Uncharted 3. At the end of chapter 7, Sully complains about being old and says "You seem to forget, I've got 25 years on ya." This tells us that Sully is 60 years old during the events of Uncharted 3. So we've established both of their ages at one point in time. Now we just need to work backwards. There's not much information within the games themselves, but if you believe the developers then these characters have aged in real time. This means that Drake's Fortune occurred roughly 4 years before Uncharted 3. So that would put Sully at around 55-56 years old. Flash forward to Uncharted 4, and again we need to figure out how old Nate is. Let's stay consistent and go with the real time aging theory. That would put Nate at age 38-39 during Uncharted 4. For argument's sake, let's say 38. You finish the game, everything's great, Nate and Elena immediately decide to have a child. Nate wouldn't be a father until age 39, probably closer to 40. Now this gets into a bit of speculation, but let's assume that Cassie is 15 years old. The only justification I can put for this is that both Sarah and Ellie from The Last of Us were 14 years old, and Cassie seems to be around the same age. She actually seems a bit older, but it's all just a guess. So after all this, Nate would be at the ripe age of 55. So sure, he's slightly younger than Sully was during Drake's Fortune as a best case scenario. At worst, he's the same age or even a bit older. However, you have to consider these bits of information which truly make it unlikely Nate will return. First, all the time between the end of the main plot and the epilogue are filled in. Nate and Elena own their own company, they go on expeditions, and their achievements are documented and hanging on the walls. So there's very little room for any sort of high-stakes dangerous expedition to occur during that part of the timeline. The next thing to consider is Cassie. Nate and Elena are parents, and they aren't going to risk their lives and risk leaving Cassie as an orphan; especially since Drake WAS an orphan at one point in his life and he hated it. So there's no room for a new Uncharted game from anywhere after the events of Uncharted 4. So if they do anything else with Nathan Drake, which I personally think is unlikely, they would HAVE to dive into prequel territory. That's just simply not going to happen. They'd have a better chance of rebooting the series in a few years and making Cassie the main character.
i'd hate to play as Cassie, some prequel or something with Sam or Sully would be good using Cutter and Chole and old enemies returning would be really cool though
If you listen to the guards they talk about Shoreline having a hand in a job gone wrong turned massacre. They also take part and profit from wars. Nadine inherited the company from her father. She's trying to earn money to continue running it. I think trying to stop her is a good thing. But your point on how Nathan and Sam are the villains is still super valid and a thing I had never noticed because I was still blown away by the dialogue and motion capture. Edit: Also, Rafe didn't just want more money he had all the money he needed. He wanted the fame, adventure and danger that Nate regularly enjoys.
In defense of Evelyn, she may not have known that Nathan and Sam were in an orphanage and probably thought they were still with the father. Not to mention that she isn't exactly in the best condition to take care of children (especially if she adopted when they were 5). But yes the heart attack moment was pretty dumb.
I gotta disagree with the comment of Alcazar being a great villain. He was pretty generic like the ones from the past games. He had nothing going for himself. Not even a good choice for a voice actor. "Hey let's have a white guy do a horrible Central American accent instead of hiring a native Spanish speaker!" Rafe could be seen the same way at first glance, but there's a much more developed character in him than past villains. He actually has a reason for what he does other than "I want money and power!" The story points it out more than once that he already has all the money a person can have, so he's not after treasure to get rich or out of greed like Alcazar. He was in it for something else. You can even draw some parallels between him and Nate in that he loves doing that shit. But more importantly, his obsession comes down to him wanting more than the life of bland security that money has given him, and wanting to achieve something in his life when he was given everything else. Meanwhile, he's also motivated by the fact that someone else is living that life: Nate. He wants to not only create a legacy for himself, but he's had to watch this cocky asshole take that from him over and over again. This makes for a much better villain, in my opinion, because he's not inherently evil. He's fueled by the circumstances of his life. Whereas every single villain in the past has been a rich, powerful boss who just wanted to be an even more rich, and powerful boss. And Alcazar was exactly that.
Dinofaced Individual Asav wasn’t that great honestly, but he does have good chemistry with the other cast and the actor seems like he’s having a good time. He’s like Lazarevich 2.0, while Rafe is like Flynn 3.0 lol. In retrospect, I’m glad Alcazar was just a red herring. It made the story deeper.
I can already hear Joseph criticizing how Alcazar could just randomly show up in Libertalia, his cartel firing upon Drake and company. How would he have found them without having any of the clues Drake and Rafe had? Was Sam or Nadine or someone slipping him clues? Did he hack their phones? And more criticizing from Joseph about, as you said, Alcazar just being a one-dimensional, brutally violent and unquestionably evil and money/power hungry villain just like the past three games. Taking someone as hostage to force Drake or Rafe to find the treasure for him.
Yes! Thank you! I get so bored of 'meat-head' villains like Lazarevic. They can be fun if used perhaps in a more tongue-in-cheek way but for a game with this sort of depth in its storytelling, it needed a bad guy with a stronger motivation to pull it through and end it right.
The Nadine thing worked for me, because despite Nathan's accomplishments and multiple victories, he is regularly made to look like he barely survives the scrapes he gets into. There are a TON of sequences of him barely avoiding death either by environment or gunpoint. The fact that he finally genuinely meets someone with more combat skill than him works. He isn't trained, he's just experienced a lot of fighting. As we learn, Nadine has been training her ass off since she was a child. It's also nice to see Nathan in a scenario that is genuinely new for the series. It's not everyday that he is physically outmatched. It's an entirely different feeling of helplessness that Uncharted players haven't experienced until now.
To be honest, we've never had Nathan have to fight someone who consistently dodges his attacks. Sometimes, enemies will dodge and then try to attack themselves, but the player dodges them and gets in their own attacks. The large mini-boss guys also hardly ever dodge, which would be difficult anyway given their size. Instead they rely on their strength and size. Even Lazareovitch doesn't dodge and is actually taken down by the exploding sap. Nathan can escape his clutches, and he can technically escape Nadine's as well. The first encounter with Nadine, I think is fine because Nathan and the player have never had to fight someone they can't get an attack in on, although it's honestly the scripted fall out the window that makes the fight hopeless. The second encounter is more of the same except Nathan realizes he has to think a little harder and use the surroundings. I think this happened in an attempt to create a better female character although I think they took it too far by making her invincible.
Experience is training. He's clearly functionally a martial artist, just his own art rather than a classical one. I mean, just think about what it means. He must have the mindset and capabilities in order to win the fights that he does. But, I have no problem with someone else in the world existing that is better than him. This would logically establish that Nadine is probably one of the best fighters in the world if the reality in the game is supposed to reflect our own in any way, but I'm fine with that.
Deschain19 From what I understand, practical experience and training are very different, and both are needed to be good at something. I think it's reasonable to believe that Nathan is not the best fistfighter in the whole universe, and for someone to beat him, they would probably have a similar amount of experience as he has, plus way more actual training. (Not to mention he was rusty af after years of scuba diving for copper, if he was *training* he would not have gotten rusty at all)
***** Generally there's a big gender gap, but there are extreme cases in both directions. Besides, Nathan's combat skills are more hyperbolic and cinematic than anything. His drawn out combat set pieces are for the excitement of the player, but as a character he's not really a skilled martial artist. This has to do with a lit of the criticism this series gets, because there's a strong disconnect between the muddy toys psychopath Nathan Drake that mows down thousands upon thousands of mindless goons and the strapping young heroic Nathan Drake who relies on his quick wit and luck to save the day. If we are talking about the first Nate, the unstoppable Nate that made it through all the respawns, of course he should crush Nadine, and any other living thing in the universe. But if we're talking about the second Nate, the one Naughty Dog wants us to know and love, it makes perfect sense he would lose to someone like Nadine. He's an undisciplined wild guy who often goes in without thinking, up against a trained killer who's worked for/ran a private army her whole life. So it really depends on how willing you are to suspend your disbelief. Honestly I think at that point, using any real life threshold for strength between genders and experience vs training is pointless.
+Kodo Elder-Groebe I feel like you're using movie logic, which I suppose is applicable in this case, since the game is quite movie-like. But in real life, even the best fighters in the world would be hard pressed to win the fights he does. Fighting against even 5 other guys your size or bigger is almost always a losing situation, regardless of your training. Fighting against even 2 other guys who aren't strangers to street fights your size or bigger is dicey, even if they have no formal training and you're a master of a martial art. His style is not clean, but by real life standards, he must be one of the best fighters in the world (probably started with talent, then he learned properly with experience) to win the fights that he does. The same way that he would have to be one of the best free climbers in the world to do the things that he does during those sequences.
Because cucking your best friends(amongst much, MUCH WORSE THINGS) is better than robbing them, right? Unless your joking.lol But I agree with OP Rafe gave the boys so many chances and then finally snapped when they wouldn't just let it be. I honestly think him and Nadine were two of the more sympathetic villains of any series.
Yfr28 - Guess I missed that scene in Uncharted 4 where Rafe sacrificed everyone he currently knew to monstrous deaths because he decided to fuck a princess and paid the price for it. Maybe that'll be in the PS5 remaster.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Nadine getting shoved off to the side in order to make Rafe the villain. For me that was bizarre. It was also bizarre to give the 'greed' revelation to Nadine, someone whose army has committed atrocities. It'd have been cool to finally win a fight against Nadine instead of fighting Rafe.
That's a good point. But she also commits "atrocities" or has done in the past. This is explicitly said in the game. Kinda seems weird that she just, yaknow, gets away with it.
Senor Salty It's also explained that she's hired for these atrocities. She never just went and did them on her own, she was hired to do them. At one point in the game, one of the mercenaries is talking to a new recruit about past things that they did and you can hear him say something like, "With the money gone, there was no reason to stay," which shows Nadine is doing all these things for the money.
Rafe as a villan made no bloody sense...I mean, he is filthy rich, so frankly founding expeditions and museums would made him the epitome of museum hero...he would have a whole wing of the British Museum dedicated to him, while Nathan would pick up junk from the hudson for 5$ for hour. lol... uncharted 4 is written for children
Made perfect sense {Rafe as the villain}. He hated everything being handed to him due to heritage; he wanted to truly earn merit. He doesn't want a fucking museum cause museums don't find shit but collect shit from the actual discoverers. his expeditions were that of finding Libertalia; nothing else would suffice (that's how big that score was; immediate recognition and credibility on such a find). you missed his entire drive in the game....
1r0zz No Rafe was after the treasure to prove he was better than just another filthy rich kid who had everything handed to him. To be honest, from Rafe's perspective, this treasure meant the most to him.
@@leonpaelinck Rafe was a dead-end he used and when he felt that he could get the treasure without him he would rather find it with Nate. I'm sure he didn't expect the cross to take them back to the cathedral's gravesite as Rafe had dug around everywhere there for years
One thing I noticed is that you may be forgetting Nathan is trying to save his brother he doesn't want to lose him again even after Nathan discovers that he lied he is still not ready on giving up on him because they were all they had for each other when they were young so he doesn't want to lose the only person that actually cared for him when he was young so that is why he actually killed all of nadines men even after he learnt about his lie.
Worst thing about Nadine was her South African accent. There are some points where it's super accurate but it's so inconsistent and sometimes sounds British and Australian at times, and sometimes it's just so off. The mercenaries accents were better but pretty exaggerated.
I disagree with a lot of your points. But as ridiculous Uncharted fan you also pointed things out I never would have noticed. I play these types of games as an actor more than a player. It's like a movie that lets you in on the fun. These Naughty dog videos were cathartic. I love these games so much, and finally there's an intelligent in depth analysis of them. Your new Patreon Mike
it bugs me how you can't see how much of a psychopath Rafe really is. you see the intro as stupid and therefore don't take it serious when considering Nathan and Sam's morals. but the truth is, the backstory that happens in the prison serves as a perfect way to not only create the foundation for the adventure but to establish the villain, Rafe really did something stupid, it's supposed to be stupid, it's supposed to make you see him as an impulsive lunatic. it's supposed to make you somewhat angry since it was due to Rafe's short temper that Sam ended up in jail 13 years. Rafe can't handle when someone starts to humiliate him, so he just acted sporadically, you know, how psychopaths can act sometimes. this action from Rafe and all the stories told about him and Nadine set them up as pretty mean villains. the interesting thing about U4 is that it's not telling the typical hero, villain story, it's about a bunch of people that let obsession take over their lives and it shows you where all that leads them (or may lead them). another interesting argument that yo bring up several times is how Nate is such a mass murderer that Rafe is somewhat justified in his actions, but that's true at all, since it's clear that Rafe doesn't give a fuck about those mercenaries, it's only Nadine that's justified in all of that, and that's intentional. Nadine is there not only for the player to associate the bad guys with and make it a little bit more grounded and believable, she also serves to show how much of a sad rich guy Rafe really is, he wants, and believes, he earns the treasure and wants to accomplish a greta feat, when in reality he's not even in charge, he needs someone else to guide his army. on top of that, Nadine is the only one in the middle of the main conflict that isn't being affected by an unhealthy obsession, she's just doing what she does and suddently she finds herself surrounded by all these crazy thieves in this fucked up situation, she's ultimately there to contrast Rafe, Sam and Nate's behaviour and shows how Rafe's obsession got the better of him, since it's because of his impulsive actions that, without him realizing, loses Nadines trust, which results in all three crazy thieves being stuck with the treasure and slowly waiting for death, she leaves them there for them to face themselves and how crazy the situation got, she doesn't care for Rafe obviously and doesn't care for Nathan nor Sam either, since they're the ones who have been murdering her entire army.
@IDK MY NAME says the one who did an Ad Hominem first? "You're a little sad pathetic kid who doesn't know what to do. And now you're trying to excuse it?? What a sad kid you are. "
@Rubix Cube a bit late here just stumbled across these comment again because of the pandemic going on. I don't get how people can't see it's supposed to be a stupid choice. He is rash, impulsive and a lunatic, one moment soft spoken the next he kills the guy. This establishes him as the villain and lets the hero's pretty much have a relative moral high ground throughout the story. The flaw with the observations in the video is how the guy dismisses this crucial plot point just as "something stupid", therefore in his mind it's almost as if it never happened because it was just an "oversight" from the writers and something that ideally shouldn't have happened in his opinion. And later on criticizes the game for not realising the heroes don't have the moral high ground (which they do, something he would realize if he didn't dismiss what rafe did in the prison flashback??). It's a flawed analysis of the characters as it basically traps the game and makes it impossible for it to make sense in his mind. personally I found this story got even better with time as I replayed the game recently. it found a good compromise between having complex characters and being engaging but not straying too far from the pulpy nonsense we see in popcorn adventure films like indiana jones. So obviously there are still flaws, as is pointed out in the video, but it's like the genre makes them more acceptable then if this was say like tlou
22:50 that's not a plot hole; you cant suffer in a jail cell if you're dead so ofc they'd save Sam. This probably the main reason the death penalty isn't used ; not because its immoral but because death is considered an easy escape than proper punishment
I was also disappointed that Alcazar wasn't the real villain. I was waiting for the moment all up to that point for his introduction. I mean, brutal south American drug dealers, how can you go bad with a villain like that?
Would've been like Narcos or something awesome like that. Imagine Indiana Jones and Pablo Escobar beating the shit out of each other; wouldn't that've been awesome?
Just one thing. Alcazar was from Central America. Yes, he died in South America, but he was a Central American drug dealer, a Panamanian drug lord (it's said that he met Sully one time in Japan, but that doesn't make him a japanese drug dealer, for example, just because he was doing something there with his boss). Not every latino is from South America.
I have replayed uncharted 4 more times than i can count on both my hands. The game is just soo good, there are so many little details everywhere to be found and it is by far the best looking game i have ever played.
After replaying these games recently and rewatching your reviews of these games, it occurred to me that a fun & interesting way of thinking about these stories is for the plots of 1-3 to be enactments of the off-screen retellings that Nathan gives Sam at the start of 4. I like this because it solves a lot of the content inconsistency across the franchise, especially with Uncharted 4 being so relatively grounded while 1-3 feature fantastical pristine lost cities, political nemeses with global resources, and literal supernatural threats. I like to imagine these elements as embellishments Nate gives across retellings of his stories as he builds his legend - the tall tales that fuel Raph's jealousy - when in reality Drake's adventures are much lower stakes and relatively mundane e.g. Lazarevic being a small time rebel leader instead of a would-be world-conquering military dictator, and so on. This idea actually endears me more to the flaws of the first three games, it's fun to think about.
surprised you skipped over the bit when we all thought elena had died. i would also say that was a large turn in Nathan's realization that he loved more than the adventure
About the Nadine vs Nathan/Sam fights, I can definitely see why you'd think it's crazy how strong she is. But also consider that Sam has been in a jail cell for years not really fighting and Nathan's been living domestically for a couple years. Nadine is a mercenary and working out religiously most likely and getting in fights frequently. She's also trained to fight and to kill, while Nate and Sam had to learn quick and fast. So even though they're bigger than her, she knows what she's doing and she's younger and faster. Also yeah it doesn't make sense considering Nate has taken down men 3x bigger than him but I'm putting that down as an inconsistency
People in prison fight all the time though. It's reasonable to believe that Sam has gotten into fights.The beginning of the game has both Nathan and Sam fight the cartel gang members. All people in prison do is work out and fight to pass the time. Also, Nathan Drake still has the strength of a god damn chip. Look at the veins on his arms the next time you play uncharted 4. Do you really think he would unlearn DECADES of combat experience in one encounter with a would be (should be) slightly more adept individual? All he had to do was just throw his body onto hers and grab her arms. 😂
Lazarovich was a trained military fighter too. And he was hopped on on magical blue strength goo. It could have been difficult sure, but shouldn’t have been impossible
Good video, but I think I can justify many of the alleged narrative inconsistencies. 1. Just because something could feasibly be on the news doesn't mean that you automatically know it. 2. Rafe has way more money and is better connected than Nate. 3. Rafe killing Many was foreshadowing that he has a tendency to go berserk and act on impulse when things don't go his way. 4. Rafe felt the need to go into the prison with the Drakes in order to confirm their findings. Seeing how they managed to hide evidence from Many without his knowledge, this makes sense
5. Sully trusts Nate. This g as lead to several moments throughout the series where it is show that Sully will trust Nate with no prior evidence. This is referenced in what Elania says to Nate in Drake's deception. "He would go to the ends of the earth for you. Just...don't make him."
6. Notice the way Nate fights. It's clumsy, rough style of combat that relies more on fighting dirty than skill. Knowing this, it's obvious that Nate should have his ass handed to him by a trained fighter
6. Notice the way Nate fights. It's clumsy, rough style of combat that relies more on fighting dirty than skill. Knowing this, it's obvious that Nate should have his ass handed to him by a trained fighter.
7. Most (with a few execptions) of the people Nate kills he killed in either self defense or to save a friend. I can see how his quips after doing so could convince some that Nate is a closet psychopath, but it has been shown that Nate (like Spider-Man) uses humor as a defense mechanism
I really love your videos, Joseph. It's rare to see video games spoken about so in-depth and intellectually. As you've covered all the games, I'd really love to see you do a video comparing the strengths and weaknesses of the Uncharted series and the rebooted (or even pre-rebooted) Tomb Raider series. They're constantly compared and I'd be very intrigued to see your take on it. Regardless though, keep up the good work! You're doing great and I've been enjoying getting all relaxed and watching your videos.
Also, a great moment after Elana saves Nathan, there is a cold, dead silence in the jeep ride following that scene that says so much without saying anything at all. Its pretty subtle and I found it chilling. Great video I listen to these at work to relive awesome games with my ears!
I find myself disagreeing with you a lot throughout this video but you bring up your points in a very nice way that there's no malice towards me disagreeing which is nice to have on the internet. Subscribed.
"I don't understand why they don't go back for some of the treasure afterwards though." Because, as you've said, they are both meant for the life of adventurous explorers. The treasure isn't the goal, it's the journey.
They could have had the treasure melt or burn and get ruined, and they chose between treasure or their loved ones on the boat. Basically there is nearly always a way to take a story point that doesn't make sense and make it make sense while sticking to a theme
I don’t mind Nadine being able to beat drake in a fight my problem is that it doesn’t matter how you play the game Nadine will still kick your ass and I start to wonder why I’m controlling Nate if he’s gonna get his ass beaten no matter what
I'm finding that my disconnect with so many video essays of this same vein is because I think I have a much higher tolerance for contrivances than others. I'm not really interested in breaking down a story for every minute detail that doesn't perfectly add up or make logical sense. Obviously, if those issues are overbearing, yeah it'll affect my enjoyment, but the Cinema Sins style of pointing out every minor plot hole, contrivance, or oversight just isn't something I vibe with. Not that those issues shouldn't be addressed, but acting as if those tiny aspects of a much grander story are actual big flaws is a line of thinking I just don't agree with. I'm interested in stories for what they have to say, rather than the moment-to-moment nuance of how they say it. Fulfilling character arcs, fully realized themes, gripping moments, those are the things that matter most to me. Once again, that isn't to say stories should get away with being sloppily told, but to the extent some nitpick them doesn't resonate with me. I don't know, maybe my standards just aren't high enough.
No I agree! Too many sloppy details absolutely do ruin a story. But having your eye to the small details means you miss the big picture. Its the 'missing the forest for the trees' saying and sometimes I feel Joseph can lean more towards it.
Ok, on your thing about Rafe’s only motivation being greed, he says a bunch of times that he doesn’t want to be known as the rich kid who gets everything handed down to him. He wanted to earn his riches, he doesn’t care about the money rather how people perceive him with that money if that makes any sense. Also that kinda explains why he was there in the prison. He didn’t want to finance an adventure he wanted to earn the adventure. If he just hired Nate and Sam for the prison job he wouldn’t feel as though he earned it.
The Nadine rant with the correlation to the other games sounds more like a comment found in Screwattack's Death Battle videos. "Nadine shouldn't have won because Nathan could totally beat her ass" is not a good argument. In fact it's a terrible argument. Uncharted 3's hand-to-hand combat felt kinda cool first time, but it was completely ridicilous. Nathan's character is a dexterous thief, not a Batman wanna-be. Side note: Playing a morally gray character is not something to criticize or to ridicule just because. The game treats Nathan and Sam as underdogs, but not as heroes. They're thieves. It was a quest for glory, and I'd argue that that is ten times more interesting than seeing Nate conviniently becoming a hero.
Still, it would've been good if we were given some form of a way to fight back and make it feel like a boss fight. You say these people were everyday men, but they've been surviving such over the top situations and gunfights that your argument falls apart. Normal people would never survive being gut shot and frozen to death aside from a few miracles, much less be able to still take out dozens of men before almost actually dying. Uncharted 4's combat is even more over the top in some cases compared to U3. It's not like Nathan started doing martial arts out of nowhere. I'm just saying that I was hoping to see how ND could blend cinematic gameplay with proper fighting mechanics for these unique situations. At least we could actually HIT Rafe in his fight, despite it feeling like a 3 button qte.
I´m watching the video half-way at the moment and i´m just stunned at how many things you´re pointing out. Ou and by the way, your channel is amazing and i feel happy to have found it, keep up the amazing work !
I really enjoyed the video, and are begging to get into your other stuff. I wish I could've seen it in my recommendations sooner. With that said I have a minor gripe with the discussion that I'd like to clear up. You mentioned the theme of greed in the game, yet never really went into how much it means. Greed is the driving force for the two major characters and the people around them. Sam wants the treasure to complete his mothers legacy, and Rafe wants to make his own legacy. The lesson here is how badly it can consume you. It tore all of Libertalia in two. This is made obvious through the line from Nadine, "Everyone obsessed with this treasure, gets what they deserve". The lust of greed. Only wanting the thing you obsess over most, doesn't come without a price. Sam lied to Nate, Nate lied to Elena. Rafe pushed everyone aside to get the treasure. As well as this line being said in front of two best pirate friends (Avery and Tew) who went mad and killed each other over the treasure. Evelyn (the old women in chapter 16) is meant to represent the person Nate (and or Sam) will become for obsession over greed. Over the course of the chapter you can find many letters sent to her from friends and family. All the artifacts she has. The ones she collected didn't come without a price. The letters detail that she has strayed away from her family and couldn't be bothered. Even not going to her fathers funeral because of an adventure she was off doing. Greed does this to people. This whole greed plot is foreshadowed from the very begging. When the trio are discussing the cross they found. "Digna factis recipimus" "We receive the due rewards of our deeds". "In other words, leading back to that same quote, "Everyone obsessed with this treasure, gets what they deserve" Leading away from that greed plot, in the same scene it foreshadows the person Rafe becomes. "During the crucifixion, Jesus is placed between two thieves. One of them mocked Jesus. The other one, this guy, was penitent. He accepted his punishment with grace. And Jesus brought him to paradise". Jesus, and the mock thief represents Nathan and Rafe. Rafe wants the legacy that Nathan Drake has. Paralleling, the mocking of Jesus. I know this video is almost a year old but I just really wanted to comment something and hey, I also gave some knowledge I think.I'll see myself out, see ya later.
To all the people saying Rafe is just as bad as Nate and Sam/that he's morally ambiguous, I don't agree. Nate never gets to enjoy the riches of his adventures, while Rafe is as rich as a person can be. He is a spoiled brat that wants to achieve something on his own without realizing he would be doing nothing like Nathan if it wasn't for the money he didn't earn. Nathan solves puzzles and goes through the adventure in the intended way, which is how he finds value in the adventure and the people he adventures with. Rafe does not care about his allies and wants to break the rules -by, say, destroying an antique church where a puzzle is hidden- just to gain the richness/the symbol of the trip. He basically wants to lie his way through becoming an adventurer. It can be argued that just like Sam Rafe is just another face of what Nathan could have been if he only cared about the prestige and appearence- after all, Nathan isn't really famous of rich inside uncharted's canon. It's not a complex or nuanced moral, but I think the games do a pretty good job at explaining it.
I don't understand your criticisms about the Nadine fight at all. Nathan can't fight for shit. While the narrative might tell you he is a well accomplished fighter, the visuals constantly go to extreme lengths to tell you just how fucking awful he is at hand to hand combat. He constantly goes for the wildest of haymakers, always drops his lead hand while doing it and is dead set on constantly leading with his god damn face. The only thing that bothers me about it, is that it didn't happen sooner, because every single brawl he has I couldn't help but to get angry with Nathan for just how bad he's actually doing. Every semi-competent Martial Artist on this planet would beat the bejesus out of Nathan Drake.
Ok, I know I am late to the party, but I had to say something about your opinion on Nate and Nadine's fight. You said that, at that point in Nate's story, it shouldn't be that difficult (or impossible in this case) for him to win the fight, but I disagree. Nate has been married to Elena for about 4-5 years by now, which means he also hasn't been physically fighting with pretty much anyone for about the same time, and if we add the fact that Nate is about 40 in this game and Nadine is probably younger and more active, it is totally believable that Nate is just out of shape and his muscles don't have the same physical recovery as before. And for the second point you adress in this, about being unfair (I guess?) that this is a invincible fight, in my opinion, when I played I didn't thought as a problem at all, not only I had a ton of fun on those fights (and laughed out loud on some parts) but the respect I had for Nadine just grew even more XD
And yet Nathan can still fight a whole army of soldiers and move faster than he did in the older games You only like Nadine because she's a waifu/woman 🏃♂️
Well, first, Nadine IS a soldier too, and their leader nonetheless, and the way she was portrayed was that she got as far as she gone in life because she tough her up over the years. If you go to the "but they were an army and she was only one person" line of thought then this whole franchise doesn't make any sense, as for 95% of action movies and games does the exactly same thing: one leader with a tough 1x1 fight while the rest of the game/movie the protagonist slaughtered dozens of underlings like it was nothing. In the end, those type of action setups are just another version of a Power Rangers' fight (🤣) and people love it, myself included ^^ About not being a cutscene, I have a few opinions on that: 1- She IS an important character in the story, showing the only two fights you have with her as a cutscene would be such a turn-off that would be better if they didn't fight at all, but then why wouldn't they? 2- By making the fight scene interactive the storytelling becomes more engaging, and just because you have control over the character doesn't mean that you will win all the time in the story, if that was frustrating for you imagine how it must have been for Nathan AND Sam. The developers/writers made a wonderful job on making the experience immersive, losses and all. And, if I am not mistaken, that was not the first time that a game forces the player to lose to make a point or to progress the story. And lastly, yes, I like that Nadine is a woman (I don't know about the waifu part to be completely honest 😅🤣). I love every woman character in this franchise, how all strong and independent they are, but very different from each other at the same time ^^
Remember Sully and Elena were in Madagascar and so was shoreline, all Sully would’ve had to do is follow the boats that shoreline was on, and that’s how they were able to find Libertalia.
I actually thought the Nate forgetting to mention he's married thing was well done. I saw a college friend after a few years recently, and didn't know he was dating this girl from college this whole time. They're engaged and I didn't know till I got there and saw her and the ring. I think it's just when you have a friendship of context you bring up stuff you know they'll care about and that you want to share. Dating/marriage is something he and I never really discussed back then so it makes sense it didn't come up over beers.
After all my earlier comments disagreeing with you on several occasions, I still really enjoyed your analysis, agreed with some parts and even was more moved by the game from some things you said (mainly about the Nathan/Elena relation), and got some new perspectives on the game. The epilogue was perhaps my favourite moment of this game, and a great way to supposedly end the series (since I tend to focus on emotional parts) but I agree with you about other parts as well. So thank you for this, you have a new subscriber :)
Many plot holes you pointed out can be explained as "They are only human". I think Joseph you consider in fictional world there can't be coincidences and human flaws.
IDK MY NAME People are stupid and coincidences happen. Why would Nathan doubt his own brother? Why can’t Rafe be somewhat psychotic because he was raised as a sheltered rich kid with no sense of freedom, fear, or compassion? Why wouldn’t Nathan be unwilling to let Elena find out he “fell off the wagon”, so to speak, on living a normal life? Even if he had a good reason? The game even tries to explain some of this, but it seems like it’s gone over everyone’s heads in this video.
Not only that you work hard on these videos. You're also gifted with a very comforting voice. I watched almost all your videos and I haven't even played half of the games that you reviewed.
41:17 You forgot about the part where Rafe threatens to have sully murdered if he so much as BETS on the cross. That isn't a moral gesture and is consistent with his characterization as a mentally unstable psychopath. Also those guards are told to basically be mafia henchmen. Also the Shoreline mercs open fire on Nate and Sam without any attempt at diplomacy, something that is 100% illegal and immoral as they are the clear aggressors (Nate and Sam are armed but the mercs wouldn't know that as they are concealed under coats). I think you are trying to give the games antagonists a moral high ground that they never earned by downplaying their clearly unlawful actions and reframing Rafe's psychopathy as a plot hole rather than a character trait and ignoring that Nadine assaulted Nate on a hunch that he was the thief(which he wasn't). They might be decent people compared to the cartoon villains from the original games but by no means are they moral.
48:08 I disagree with you there. There’s a difference between feeling responsible for/having guilt because of something... and “owing” someone. Sure Nate should feel bad for what happened to Sam, but Sully is right, “it’s not his fault”. And at the end of the day, Sully is coming from a paternal perspective. He understands the threat and likelihood of something happening, and EVEN IF Nate “owes” Sam for not finding him, is the debt his life, and/or his relationship and future with Elena? If we’re being real, what happened was Rafe’s fault. He caused the events that led to Sam getting shot and not escaping by killing the Warden the way he did. And what’s more is that the “debt” Sam is collecting is bolstered with lies and deception. Now, if Sam was being honest, he might be able to play the “you owe me” card. If Sam talked about being locked up, abused, and lonely for 15 years, with the only thing keeping him from killing himself was his little brother and dreams of discovering Avery’s treasure... and now that he’s out. He’s going to find it no matter what, but he needs Nate’s help. But you can’t owe someone when they’re basically lying about everything... it kind of cancels it out.
On the whole Elena issue... She grew up, matured and wanted to settle, to be safe, specially after what happened in 2 and between 2 and 3... Nate wouldn't, and that created a rift between them. After the events of 3, they decided to stop risking their lives and in 4 Nate was commited to that (but not out of maturity but out of loving Elena, he did it for HER) untill his brother came a-knocking... He lied to her because (like immature men do) he thought she wouldn't understand... I will argue that nate REALLY grew up by the end of 4. That's how I saw it. Great video, by the way. I suscribed!
Uncharted 4 is easily one of my favourite games and I think it speaks volumes about its overall quality that I can overlook some of the points he brings up just because of how amazing it is as a whole.
"Except for Sully, because he's a baller." I only just subscribed last night, but after watching several videos so far, I can't see this not ever being my favorite quote EVER heard. Can't wait to catch up, and watch your future videos. Your critiques are extensive, and you speak, explain, and analyze in a great to comprehend way, especially since I'm playing games while watching, haha. Great work! Keep it up!
I don't know what's so hard to understand about the prison part? They patched him up so he can suffer for a lifetime in a cell. For them letting him die would probably be the easy way out. Listen I love your videos but sometimes being too nitpicky is definitely a negative thing. I'm not saying the Uncharted games are perfect. But having some suspension of disbelief can increase the enjoyment of some things a lot. Also I don't quite understand how you could say that the Uncharted games are clearly meant as lighthearted Adventure games in the vein of Action Movies (Indiana Jones would be the obvious choice for comparison here.) and then go all in when it comes to the plot. Other than that, nice work.
It's so refreshing to have an educated individual who is so thorough in covering games and their content. Even when I disagree with some of your opinions or thoughts, I still enjoy watching because you don't just scream your side, but explain it to the fine point. It's just so good.
It's interesting, the scene where Elena and Nate are standing around the pirate's at the table (around 1:20:00) I interpreted it differently. Where you saw Elena marveling at Nate, I actually felt profoundly sad and interpreted it as her being reminded that his life is just as fragile as the pirates'. I guess because he's talking about how these pirates - some of the greatest and infamous men - died in an instant. It made me feel as though she were thinking about how he could have died in an instant at any moment when he lied to her about the job. Idk, that was just my interpretation of it. I felt sad for her because she seemed so sad at the thought of him dying like those pirates.
Your breakdowns are fantastic mate, I love the whole uncharted series but I love everything you have to say about it more, you managed to encapsulate why I like it without me even realising it and all the flaws u point out are 100% accurate, keep up the good work man
Being about greed is a good thing... The game really does a nice job tracing parallels between the characters in the present and the pirates. Libertalia, the "perfect society" was destroyed by greed and envy. That's the way Nathan "walking" away in the end mades a lot of sense. He broke the circle and after 3 games he finally recognize that the are things more important than treasure and fame.
Yes, you're right that Rafe killing the Warden is stupid, when i first get to that scene i was like "WTF are you doing, dude, you're in his prison!", but it makes sense later on since the game fleshes out how temperamental Rafe can be and that would cloud his judgement in getting what he suddenly wants in the moment. It's still stupid, but not as stupid as why Rafe is in the prison too as you mentioned, he wasn't the climber guy. Sam being there still makes sense, since i think they haven't planned in detail yet about who will search Burnes' prison. You may think that he's there for Nate and Sam to consult with and pulls the trigger for any decision needed to make since he's in change or funds the operation, but that feels arguable to me.
I've played the first game. It was pretty good. I've played some of the second game and liked it better than the first. I bought Witcher 3 a while back. I don't know when I'll get to it. I might just have to say fuck it and clear a month and ignore new releases and dive in. Maybe soon? I don't know. New, big releases grow the channel more than anything. But only if I do them shortly after they come out. Like look how poorly this video did and it was only two months after release. It needs to be faster than that.
+Joseph Anderson Well in that case maybe it's not a good idea, because Witcher 3 is a huge game. Maybe someday when the channel gets a bit bigger you could do it?
+Joseph Anderson your videos deserve more views, no doubt about it. I enjoy them immensely and seeing that you uploaded a new one makes me smile because listening to your organized thoughts on games is a fun experience and I learn something new every time. I would say try to not get discouraged by how a video does, if a game just came out maybe not as many people are watching because they haven't played it. I couldn't afford UC4 until it went on sale and I had a coupon last week. I watched your video as soon as I finished the game. I'm sure lots of people would love to see these but just save them for later because they intend to play the game and don't want to be spoiled first. So maybe releasing a video months after a game's release wouldn't be so bad? It's your channel though you're the expert and can see your own stats. What you're doing here is great and I know it can't have been easy or even fun sometimes to play and think about these games so thoroughly. It is so appreciated tho
Thank you! It's hard to predict really. Sometimes it feels like the video benefits from coming out months later. Othertimes it does well if it's within a few weeks of release. They still take the same amount of hours to make though, so it's occasionally frustrating. I need to work on some different formats that take less effort to still grow the channel between large projects like this. I hope I'll work it out eventually.
The quality of this videos is amazing. I watched all of them in one single week. I loved the series on Dark Souls and this one has made me want to revisit the uncharted series. Amazing.
CJ Carter And the fact that he has to research and write a script and know what the fuck he’s talking about if he’s going to do an in-depth critique. He says a lot of wrong shit in this lol.
this channel is wonderful as someone who thinks deeply and loves gaming since i was a kid this channel works so well for me i love deep in depth looks.
For 12:40 I mean Rafe has to keep an eye on Nate and Sam. It's a business arrangement and he's not going to trust two out and out thieves, obsessed with the treasure, not to renege and find it themselves. Plus we see that Vargas was willing to let them leave the prison so long as he got a cut. Escaping and then abandoning Rafe would be no problem for the Brothers Drake.
