A new TV series about the horrific murders of Brenda Lafferty and her baby in American Fork in 1984 got a lot of attention leading up to its release on FX and Hulu Thursday. ksltv.com/491211/under-the-ba...
The only reason the book is "controversial" is because it sheds a bright light on the horrific and nonsensical history of the lds church, like the doctrine of Blood Atonement
Its controversial because the writers do not consult any of the witnesses, which make this entire thing pure fiction. The family of the victims were offended by it. They did not want Hollywood to put their hands on it, because they knew what would happen, as the sister of the victim told the news.
@@Devorizon That's "the shelf" the main character of the show's bishop tells him to put the tough questions on to ignore. It's a real thing. Every church, but the LDS church most prominently has gone to great lengths to find writings that don't support their narrative and hide them and label them as apocryphal. I only say this practice is most prominent in the LDS church because of how young it is. The Catholic Church did it's fair share of document hiding but it was many hundreds of years ago during the Crusades for example. The inconsistencies are real but unlike science, religion always buries its head in the sand and pretends they don't exist rather than address them and perhaps change how they view the world as a result.
@@Devorizon the temple ceremony has changed many times, as you likely know if you went to the temple recently (no more veils for women and women no longer going through men but rather directly to God). They're used to be a blood oath. It's easy to Google.
As an ex Mormon I find it very interesting that they say they think it's all fiction and don't recognize anything depicted there. It's just more trying to protect the church, it's ingrained into you to be protective since birth, but I can say that yes, this is accurate. Especially growing up in Utah.
Also, this history is exactly what they say not to investigate because it's "anti Mormon literature" and it's ingrained into you to be terrified of this stuff as something that allows Satan in to destroy your testimony of the church. In reality, obviously, it's because it's true, it's historically accurate it reflects very poorly on the church from the inception of it, and they know it goes against the concept of a prophet being God's mouthpiece. They're afraid that members will find out the truth. That's the whole premise. Make you afraid of this because it'll lose them members, money, and reputation.
@@regulator674 So you regularly found people you don't know challenging you on your commitments to your covenants? And using archaic language to talk to others? And use "Heavenly Father" in every statement you make to other humans? Or that you had to hide eating french fries from other members? I suggest you are not being honest.
@@regulator674 (I'm not a nor have I ever been a Mormon) I personally also noticed ALOT of this lining up with a podcast called Last Podcast On The Left. They did a six parter going through the history and practices of Mormonism and I can personally say (and this is coming from someone raised catholic) it's a cult.
@@RichardChappell1 no I found that following white peoples god and religion is something I don’t vibe with. My people were better off doing there own thing and your sheep religion interrupted our culture and poisoned our way of life.
I can see that the LDS Church is trying to do massive clean up to make this mini series a straight work of fiction. Plant the seed of doubt in the minds of anyone who watches this and might start to see their church history in a different light. Make people think that the LDS was not like this at all.
I think Brenda is portrayed well. She's a believer (of mainstream mormonism, not the lafferty brothers whacky extremist version) but she's also independently minded and seems to love her husband and her 'sisters' until it all falls apart and she has to leave him, and try and rescue the other wives. In many respects it depicts her as quite heroic. I dont know how the real woman was. But I'd hope her family don't find it offensive to her memory.
The final episode was totally heart crushing to watch but I really think they did her justice. It made me sad in a way that TV never had. As if I knew Brenda personally and the light the world lost that day. Her story is absolutely tragic but a necessary one to be told. Because she was a hero to those that needed help. So I’m with you. I hope they don’t take it with disrespect. Daisy did a fantastic job in this role and celebrated Brenda as the hero she was down to the last breathe.
I understand the family’s resentment having to relive that horrific nightmare. It’s unimaginable! But I believe the book & series try to honor Brenda & Erica & expose the whitewashing of religious history. Every religion believes they have the “truth” but ALL are based on interpretation. That leads to dangerous religious fundamentalism & “inspired revelations” that conveniently justify abhorrent acts.
I am really enjoying it. To me they made her to have looked very intelligent loving caring brave just a great woman mother and wife. And her family to be very supportive and loving.
In what sense? That the girls wear dresses all the time? I was born in Utah, none of my sisters dressed like that except for church. The fact that someone that is not their bishop would use vows as a way to get the person to confess? That's laughable, because all he could have said was to "piss off, you masonic ripoff". To an exmormon, we aren't threatened by hocus pocus.
@@silbannacusofoxyrhynchus6096 It's very difficult for outsiders to believe that. As a non-mormon Utahn that has spent my entire life here, the church seems super controlling of people's lives often to their detriment. This series portrays what I have seen myself where members of the church are denied access to secular forms of help and care for various problems because the church wants to help its own. I don't think everyone in power in the church is evil or malicious but incredibly misguided in believing that the church can solve every problem and that just a little more prayer or scripture study will lead to the revelation one needs. Even to this day, the church feels incredibly misogynistic toward the female members because everything is so separate. Women cannot hold the priesthood and must serve their priesthood holder? I've seen this within my friend's families where my friends mothers had no say in their marriages because of secret vows that they took in the temple. I have seen with my own eyes the fake happiness my friend's mothers would have to show when I was around because I was an outsider and I wouldn't understand the abuse happening in their families because of the teaching of the Church. It's hardly sacred, it's brainwashing and tragic to see so many people follow the teachings of such disgusting and perverted men like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
@@silbannacusofoxyrhynchus6096 Human sacrifices in the Aztec religion was also sacred and holy, in case you were implying that believing something is sacred makes it normal or morally ethical...
Hahahahahaha. THat's kind of like saying that people in Germany are all Nazis. It is nothing at all representative of the Church, Church members or any supposed "toxic" behavior.
@@RichardChappell1 She said that the church "can be" toxic and extreme. The Lafferty case is just such an example. She didn't say anything about all, or the beliefs of the Lafferty's being representative.
@@RetNemmoc555 The Lafferty's were not even members of the Church. They had been excommunicated. I stand by my statement. Your suggestion that she didn't say in all cases excused the unreasonable claim. If you'll read again for meaning, you'll see the analogy is appropriate. Suggesting that radical members that are so extreme they are kicked out for the Church is representative is a ridiculous.
I spent 40 years in the Mormon church and I can tell you without question this is hauntingly accurate, even down to the very details. I left the church in about 2016 because like the detective in the series I went through my own Awakening in regards to the history and this church and also the current teachings which seem to be taking me farther and farther away from God ironically
If you truly were a member, then you are lying. You know very well the portrayals are not even close to realistic. You can't honestly say you walked around talking to everyone like a caricature of a 19th century religious extremist.
@@RichardChappell1 I’m still a member actually, but I know that since you are expected to lie if necessary to proselytize the church, you’re the one who has the bias and a need to lie.
@@RichardChappell1 your the one that believe God authorizes you to lie, called "lying for the Lord" and I know you do it to "protect the good name of the church" these are actual church doctrines aren't they? Don't lie any more we all know what the LDS church does is lie, obfuscate and gas-light, doesn't it? one reason I left the church is because Mormon leaders and their followers by their example lie through their teeth. It's sick.
@@Peedarb Hahahahaha. You;'ve outed yourself. If you were being honest and true, you'd know I know better. You have reached the level of ridiculoius. Seriously, though, psychosis can be very scary and confusing, and it can significantly disrupt your life. YTou should see someone about it before you do yourself real harm. The handbooks are all online. The docrine and policies are all open for the world to look at. I challenge you to show me anywhere with anything like "lying for the Lord". Please show it. I dare you. You and I both know that exists solely in anti-Mormon literature. You're not responding to me here, you're pontificating for anyone reading it. I'm betting you're trying to do Kafka proud. But I know what you're doing.
@@RichardChappell1 I wouldn’t say that. From what I’ve read and heard from members. Of course not what the brothers stood for. They were just plain crazy. But the roles in the family, the “rules” of their members, basic day to day lives. This was a horrendous crime by absolutely crazy madmen. I don’t know how you can say it’s not realistic when this is what happened to her and her baby
@@AMYV3 I can say this because they way they show the roles in the family - even with the more "normal" members - the detective and his wife, and the other relief society members - is way over the top. J Lee makes the comment about the "terrible patriarchal system" - not talking about the Lafferty family specifically, but suggests that is the Church and the way we live. It is not. For example, when the detective makes declarations to his wife about chagning the baptism and says she needs to follow him because he is the head of the family - that is in direct violation of what we teach. In one of our scriptures (Doctrine and Covenants 121:41-42) it says "No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile-" Any husband talking to his wife that way, making demands to follow, has exceeded his authority and would have call to repent. The "rules" we live are not much different than the "rules" any member of a Church has - nor anyone living by a defined moral code. People choose to live by it at the ability or level they choose. Even the way the "normal" members talk on the show is not realistic. The detective would not walk up to someone and ask them if they are living up to their covenants. That's ridiculous. The way they show the Relief Society ladies (the women at the home getting ready for the birthday and baptism), was all over the top. The crime took place, and the Lafferties were pretty nuts - which is why they were excommunicated before this ever happened. But that's about all that they got accurate. The best comparison is how Halloweentown portrayed Christmas in the Nightmare Before Christmas. They took the words of someone who is obviously limited in his lknowledge and has an axe to grind and the producers and writers tried to make a representatioon from that.
@@RichardChappell1 You obviously live in a fantasy world. I have lived in Utah my entire life and have gotten pretty far under the veil of secrecy surrounding your cult. It is abusive. It is misogynistic. It is all of those things. It's hard to fully see the big picture when you're in the picture. Once you step outside of it and see it from an outside perspective, it's horrifying how members of LDS families treat each other. Sure some parts of the show are exaggerated but other parts are not. As far as going up to people and asking them if they are following their covenants, I see this every day among Mormons. The show needed to have it vocalized because people around the country have not grown up seeing the subtle looks of disdain and judgement when Mormons talk about each other. The question is always being asked just not with words.
Said no actual member of the Church. This is such a misrepresentation. Some leaders will counsel members against anti-Mormon literature because they are full of misrepresentations, lacking context and lies, but in my 50+ years as a member, I have never heard anyone say anything resembling that. as a matter of fact, members are encouraged to bring questions to their priesthod leadership. Some leaders may not know how to answer, but that's a human personality issue. If you want to declare yourself a "good guy." then you should do good, not the opposite.
Correct no Mormon would say it like that. Let me see if I can remember how my bishop and priesthood leader said it…oh yeah, “we don’t know all the answers and you need to rely upon your faith and focus on the things we do know and pray” see that is totally different than putting it on a shelf. Not even close to the same thing.
I think religion in general has done far more harm that good over the course of human history and it is asinine and narcissistic to suggest that god let improper and immoral worship go on for thousands of years before he decided that some dude in New York was worthy to know the secrets of the “truth” only 150 years ago, essentially saying that all the people that have come before and done it wrong we’re condemned to eternal damnation. Call me crazy, but that not only doesn’t sound like a benevolent god that you have chosen to put faith in, but one that until 150 years ago would have been indifferent to you sinning and spending eternity in hellfire.
@@tysondymock9197 Add the fact that you don't understand the difference says far more about you than any of them. You live that way throughout your life. You don't know everything about many things, and yet you keep functioning and going about life. Does the driver need to know how the engine functions to drive the car? No, we should find everyone who hates cars and listen to why they think we shouldn't drive and then quit driving until we prove exactly why we shoudl drive. Look, don't be stupid about it. At least make a minimum attempt at reasoning.
@@thegoodguys1805 That's because you choose to ignore history and instead use your bias to create an imaginary world. Even with all the abuses that organized religions have committed, humanity has prospered and developed exponentially since Christianity came. As to your other issue, your lack of understanding of any concept of God doesn't provide evidence against any religious claim. You suggest that a benevolent God must control how people act and behave and not be allowed to do wrong things. There aren't any substantial faith traditions that align with that concept. I wouldn't call you crazy - just not very thoughtful. That is exemplary of some pretty shallow reasoning.
Interesting that the showrunner had access to letters and met with Brenda’s sister to talk about him adapting the book…. And then she is surprised that they made it into a limited series years later. I mean adaptation even for an Oscar winning writer is going to take years to make. I will watch the show as a celebration of Brenda’s life. That is how I will be watching the show because based on the reviews so far - it is an exploration of faith as well as a story about her life and what she believed in. Also I read that the actress who played Brenda had some questions abt Brenda and was given answers by her sister for more accurate portrayal. So again it does give me pause why the news seem to make it look like there was no permission to adapt 😂
He didn't need my permission and he didn't involve our family past 2011 when Lance was writing a script for a feature film. I found out about the series in a NEWS article in June 2021 the same way everyone else did. After not hearing anything from the writer or Imagine entertainment it absolutely was a shock. It is what it is however Our family had no idea anything was in the works. I talked to Daisy at the same time they began filming.
Sharon, I totally understand how this would be so difficult to see. I wouldn’t blame you for not wanting to watch it. As for your sister, I think she’s painted in a very good light thus far. Same with your father. Strong willed and ambitious just like you described.
This fictional story about real events does drip with the truth in all the important areas it is trying to deal with: 1. The power granted men by the church as the source of god’s power in their families lives, and the enforced subservience of women to that power and all the ways men might wield that power to get what they want 2. The way the church uses one’s standing in the church to keep you in line (pitting wife against husband and vice versa) 3. The higher authority of the church over the laws of the land, and where a saint’s duty must lie 4. The widely held beliefs about plural marriage and how it will be restored (mainstream members believe they will have plural marriage in heaven as it is the way of gods and seal unwed women to worthy priesthood holders after death.)
Glad the Mormon church is being exposed for what it is. Far too long I have heard members deny the extreme misogynistic behavior, and the blind obedience required of their members. The fact this poor woman and baby had their throats slashed because of something taught in the Temple ceremony, should clearly prove what a creepy cult this is.
Hahahahahaha. Now that is the voice of true bigotry there. If the Church required blind obedience, then there'd be hardly any members, because there's plenty of disobedience - just like any other religion. THe murders had nothing to do with anything taight in the temple - which is all in scripture and publicly available. It was based on a misrepresentation of talks given by Brigham Young in the early days of the Church. The wirters of this story are telling you a fiction wrapped around some true events for the express purpose of attcking the Church. The author of the book it's based on has come out and said as much.
She was really murdered. The Baby was really murdered. That wasn't fiction or lies. The young mother and the Baby can't be disturbed, so why does talking about it keep her from resting?
Exactly, everything I’ve seen on the show about the church and Joseph Smith so far has been accurate. The news reporter should’ve said it is not historically accurate compared to the white washed history that they teach you in the church.
Brenda's sister should actually be happy that they're exposing what the Mormon church is and how her sister became one of the many victims because of it. Instead it seems like she's still trying to protect the Mormon church. Being an ex Mormon and watching this, a lot of my "why's" are being answered because being Mormon now you just do what you're told without asking and you believe it's been like that forever.
I protect Brenda's love for the religion. I am not involved in it. She loved it at the time of her murder and my responsibility is to her and her memory. She did not live very long. It is important to me that her reputation remain intact... I don't care about anything else.
As someone who was born and raised LDS and escaped it, I can confirm that the show is by no means decieving in any way, shape, or form. Anyone who says otherwise is blinded by a false faith.
That is not what I said... I am hoping that now this series is out and over soon they will be able to rest. I was absolutely hoping it would all be forgotten. I am a proponent for giving Utah a better choice than the death penalty because of what we were put through for thirty five years. Because of that work they will always be in the NEWS. We had such a long conversation. The way some reporters cut and paste pieces of interviews doesn't do justice to my overall feelings.
The dark side of the LDS church is getting more attention. I think it's good because people need to know what happens inside the temple before they choose to be baptized.
I may be less active but the church is good unfortunately just like any religion people misinterpreted and became extremist to those beliefs then bad things happen it sucks
Yes, why weren't facts checked. Jon Krakauer is known to write as an act of catharsis. Many people told the author to write books after a considerable time after the event, putting some time in between the tragedy. In the end, he ignored this advice because it was in danger of dissapating with the passage of time.Jon Krakauer is a great author regardless that brings the raw truth to his books.
Most of the ex-LDS folks I’ve talked to about this series said that Garfield did a good job at portraying what it was like growing up. They had criticisms of course, but for the most part said it was well done. As for the historical accuracy of the crime it was based off of and all that, I actually didn’t think it was at all an accurate retelling of the story. If anything, this news clip confirmed that it’s actually closer to what happened than I first thought.
More crazy Mormons. He had to get rid of her for revenge because he was convinced she was the cause of his wife leaving, then the nerve to claim he’s a prophet and justified. What a POS. The baby was just a bonus to him. Evil.
I cannot believe how biased this news story is. Your news station should be ashamed on giving just one side. This is how the Mormon church acts … they are not transparent with even their own history. Members are victims of all this conditioning
@@Katiegirlluv Hahahahaha. It's so funny you think members are ignorant of their history and the realities. People who are jealous and bitter are quick to buy into any salacious bit they can get hold of to keep their hatred alive.
@@RichardChappell1 y’all Mormons are full of hatred tho. Your history proves this. No matter how many time you try to amend your doctrine, it’s still hateful and that’s how Mormons should be viewed.
@@rosieo5481 And yet, you're the one making angry and false accusations. Yeah, we are so full of hate that we're at every major disaster as soon as anyone with our yellow vests, distributing food, clearing rubble, etc. Whatever makes you feel justified. I hope you find some comfort in your heart.
@@RichardChappell1 Keep drinking the Kool Aid. If you are a member and you have gone through the temple you know why these murders are so disturbing. The slashing of the throats on both of these victims because of what is taught in the temple ceremony is horrific and exposes the evil of the Mormon Church. And yet you accuse someone of making false accusations? Apparently its "what ever makes you feel justified" in belonging and defending a cult that requires its members to participate in these activities describe as sacred ceremonies.
This story is obviously biased in favor of the LDS Church. Basically propaganda to inoculate active church members before they even watch the show. Balanced journalists would have included statements from the show’s creators or the book’s author defending their choices. Instead, we’re left with one side: “Church good; show bad.”
They probably didn’t feel the need to reiterate what other news stations are saying about it. They probably felt the need to focus on sharing that it is NOT an accurate or historical portrayal of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints NOR the murder of Brenda & her daughter.
@@abigailbrewer9717 it’s just very frustrating that the church always has to put a very positive faith promoting spin on EVERYTHING. KSL is owned by the church and so they are promoting more propaganda rather than do truthful honest journalism.
@@abigailbrewer9717 ...correct. That is what I'm pointing out as a failure on their part. A news station should always respect the principles of fair journalism, which demands fair representation of all sides. KSL failed to do that because they are owned and operated by the LDS Church. The bias is evident and disgraceful.
Haa was born in April of 74 I was raised in orem Utah in 84 I was 10 years old when this happened .... and I think not telling the truth about what really happened and how it really happened isn't good ... tell the truth and stick to the truth...
It is VERY weird hearing a sister of a murdered woman saying, basically, "I want her to be forgotten and no one to know why she and her tiny daughter were so horrifically murdered." She is taking the view that the guilty people here are people who want her sister and niece to not just be statistics. Very weird. Very disturbing. No love shown.
Crimes like this should not be put to rest just like 911 should never be forgotten. Extremism in religion needs to end. If you just let it go and forget it then more of these horrible crimes continue to happen like the Lori Vallows and Chad Daybell case. Two beautiful children and a husband and a wife murdered in the name of religious fanaticism.
I watched it, the culture depicted was a very accurate portrayal of the culture I was raised in. The main character was not 'extremist.' That is how your average church member acted in 1984.
Do they think the public it's that dumb that we just watch Hulu shows and expect everything to be a true life recreation? Obviously a work of entertainment is going to make creative liberties. If I want to know what really happened I don't get my facts from a TV show, I look them up. I can see how LDS people will be butthurt about this show, they don't like anything that could make anyone doubt the "one true gospel"
The writer is not wrong in anything he shows in it, but the corporation will never let what they hide inside come out and continue with their hypocritical faces laughing at all of us and shaking off the dust from their shoes to send us a curse.
I just finished the series, it was amazing and the acting was great. But of course if u ask the organization that the show portrays they will always throw dirt on it. But I thought the book and the show were amazing and does shed light on stuff ppl don’t want light shed on lol
Under the banner of heaven...the people that actually went through it says they were not asked about it for the show So basically its lies but tells the story of the murderers and the victim to some degree because shes killed. Why tell a story that sensatonalize evil men murdering a woman. Sounds like a disgrace to put a religions name in it that has nothing to do with this kind of crap because his unresolved issues with the religion he left. This is an extreme religion or flds fundimentalist lds
I saw the series on Hulu I saw the whole story but they was like too violent too crazy to psychopath but I didn't think it was a true story poor Brenda and the little baby Erica the baby was like 6 months old I understand that the character who plays the detective was not real but they want to show us the story about Brenda Lafferty story about how it all began when I saw the story the guy who played Ron and his brother was crazy like there's something going on inside his head now everyone understands why people are like crazy I never read the book I didn't know it was a true story sometimes it haunts me but I only watched it once now watching it again I mean all they could talk about is God this God's dad blah blah blah even though I'm Catholic I do believe in God but I usually don't talk about God that much that guy is crazy really crazy
I am not mormon, but know many. All of them are great people and friends. I like this show but in no way do I think this relates to my friends, just like some of the televangelists who steal money represent me and my Christian faith. Every religion has extremism and crazy people as outliers
I watched episode 1 and I thought it was extremely sensationalized of the Mormon family. I have family ties to the church and I thought if people watch this they will get a crazy extremist perspective about the church. This family is just crazy and should be taken as that. At no point did I feel threatened by anyone in the church. Like anything else the more you learn about someone the more you pick and choose what you want to see.
This first episode, good grief, they lost the nuances of how LDS members act, and was over done. I remember the whole thing, it was heartbreaking. This family the Laffertys were dysfunctional, and it can happen that their thinking got messed up badly, so they murdered, and it sort of seems lend itself to saying other LDS people could be similar, which isn't true. When the main detective brings in the vacuum and music....he wouldn't call Lafferty...Brother, as outside of the ward, people just don't talk that way. Even the Roger Hoffman thing got messed up and was never corrected by the media outside of Utah.
i was raised lds and am still forced to go to church every sunday. in fact i live where this murder took place and people do in fact use the word brother and sister outside of church and extremism and sexism are prevalent in the church it seems more than you know.
@@emmagroesbeck9602 I know where you live, I looked you up, my son and his live in PG, and I asked her and she said, she sees her ward members and neighbors out shopping all the time, and the only thing she's ever noticed is that people call their bishop, bishop out and about, but never brother so and so, or sister so and so. You live by a major university which is very modern and people are very savvy and the sexism you talk about, of course you won't give me an example. Why not do this, go live in another state where there are few LDS people and then report back. I've lived in several states, gone to several different wards. I've been a member for 50 years as a convert. And again that program did not define members very well, it insulted my intelligence until I realized who put it together and so that's how it goes. Talk about 1st world problems, forced to go to church. Yes your family expects you to go, and you've never actually made yourself read the book of mormon and you do these things out of the oblagation of your family. It's tough to be a real latter-day-saint, you actually have to say personal prayers and fast in order to receive the personal revelation that allows you to know whether the LDS church is true or not. If you actually read the BOM and know who J. Smith was and read books from that time from people who kept personal journals and such, you'd know what a sophisticated book the BOM is and that he wasn't drive by sex, and that he was one of the bravest men that ever lived. I've never met him, but I love him, had I not bee baptized at age 21 back in 1973, I really do not know what would have become of me, I didn't grow up in a nice LDS family and I won't go into my family. Read.
@@donnavaughn9409 i lived in colorado for ten years. just moved back to utah. and yes ppl still used brother and sister outside the ward there too. the whole basis of the priesthood is literally sexist and used to also be racist which are two facts so.
Am baffled at how so many are willing to believe propaganda that is grossly reductive toward a whole community. We are now in the twenty-first century yet find ourselves among a population that would sew Stars of David to the clothing of an entire group and then immediately look the other way.
And be glad to get torches and pitchforks to go after them. We don't learn from history. Any of these people would have jumped right on board had they lived in Germany in WWII.
Mormon history is disturbing and dark. If you believe Joseph smith to be a prophet of god, I have no respect towards you. His crimes and disgusting lies were recorded and are easy to learn about.
@@nickwright4079 The respect of people like you isn't the goal, so no sweat. I hope you find a way to get over your hatred and anger. It's destructive to your health and happiness. May the Lord bless you.
@@RichardChappell1 my friend, I’m not full of hatred at all. I love my family, and my life and my friends. One of my best friends is in fact, and ex-LDS member who has never been happier after leaving the faith. I just hope to inform some of you on your history, that is all. If your faith brings you joy and peace, then by all means, continue to do so.
@@nickwright4079 And yet, here you are on a public discussion group, for all the world to see, expounding your hate for people you don't know just because they believe something else. Sure, keep telling yourself how wonderful you are.
I am not LDS. I read Krakauer’s book and thought he really unconvincingly made that case religion leads naturally to extremism. I found it implausible that he used the LDS movement to make his case. A far better example would’ve been radical Islam which, for those who don’t know, has a well-developed theology of violence called “Jihad”. The thing is, it is dishonest to put every religious believer in the same category. If we played that game then we could go through all the atrocities of atheist communist regimes which killed around 100 million people.
I respect your right to your opinion. But I'd have to disagree. Historically, there have been countless slaughtered in the name of faith. You could point to Jones town, the salem witch trials, etc. Anything, that gives someone faith that their actions are in the name of a power above them, can drive people to unspeakable acts. It's not fair to generalize one more so than the other.
I'm sorry, but you show such a lack of knowledge about the concept of jihad Jihad means struggle, and the first and biggest meaning of it is the internal struggle that comes with trying to grow and develop as a person and believer. The concept of jihad is very misunderstood and the term is videly misused.
@@lykkesalmouk8178 I have studied the Quran and what it says. There is a well-developed theology of violent jihad against unbelievers in Islam. For example, Surah 9:29, 5:32-33, 9:73, 4:76, 47:4…. It really goes on and on unfortunately. I also have the Quran with, the respected Islamic scholar, Mawdudi’s commentary which really affirms the context. I encourage anyone who sees this comment to look up these verses in the Quran (see also mawdudi’s commentary) and realise that Islam is a very dangerous religion.
Thing is, that's not a very good source as to how the mainstream scholars in islam will present the consept of jihad. What is refered to as ulama. You can't use just one source to understand islam and the quran. You have to study hadith, tafseer, fiqh, sunnah and what the majority of the ulama says. Not just read the quran in english, use one source and think you get it. So many things are also lost in translation of the quran. And your opinion goes dead against what the ulama, who are experts on all of this, are saying.
@@lykkesalmouk8178 I am glad you don’t accept Mawdudi’s (the mainstream) interpretation. Unfortunately Mawdudi is a mainstream scholar in Islam. Also, my study of the Hadiths back up this understanding. I’m sure there are liberal Islamic scholars out there who desperately are trying to reinterpret the concept of jihad, but that school of thought has very little influence in how Islam is practiced by the majority of Muslims. Additionally, I’m not sure how one could reinterpret 9:29 to be peaceful! I’m glad you don’t accept the radical form of Islam, but true Islam practised by the majority of Muslims IS radical and dangerous. In fact, if one searches each of these surahs and “commentary” you do see additional scholars who back up the violent Islam concept of jihad, I recommend any doubters do so. I searched “surah 9:29 commentary”, and the first link I clicked had 5 scholars who were saying more or less the same exact thing!
