In This Edition of Ask Leo Pizza, Master Pizzaiolo Leo Spizzirri explains flour chemistry and the importance of the "W" factor using a line up of flours from Le 5 Stagioni. leospizzirri.com Leo's new RU-vid channel: / @thepizzagarage
I am speechless! This 24 minute video was an incredible leap in my pizza baking education. Like getting a PhD in flour chemistry. I can't thank you enough.
This is probably one of the most valuable videos for home or professional pizza Chef's. All too often, we hear "x hydration is the best" or "y hydration is the best" without providing much context. Lesson here, take what the flour gives you. If you are using a weaker flour and struggling to hydrated it at 70%, then you are not going to get the best performance from that flour.
You hit a homerun on this topic. I was brought here as I was looking for info about the "W", but thoroughly enjoyed the full video. Tackling a topic like this is not impossible, but doing it with a spectacular balance of professionalism, history lesson, knowledge content, natural flow, and your personal charm have woven together to make an amazing video. Thank you and Well done Chef Leo!
Thank very much for the info on flour...im just a newbie on pizza making and learned a lot on your videos. Im a small meat processor by trade and just started adding pizza on my menu in our small deli...again thnx so much😊
Thank you very much, Leo best info on RU-vid and you are very knowledgeable. Can you please do a video on Roman style pan pizza. Flour and maturing and hydration. Sorry, I have just translated from Italian the terms. I will be grateful.
Thank you Brian. I get these questions quite a bit, so it seemed like it would be helpful to quite a few people trying to make great pizza. I appreciate your comments.
I watched this 3 years ago when I started cooking pizza at home, didn’t get much of it… Watched again today made a lot more sense, leant many new thing. Thankyou
My new RU-vid channel is launching next week with a Free Master Class on making Chicago Stuffed Pizza from Scratch! Go to “The Pizza Garage with Leo Spizzirri” and subscribe today! Thanks for watching!
Thank you Robert. Please check out my new RU-vid channel "The Pizza Garage with Leo Spizzirri." Tomorrow I am publishing a Master Class on Chicago Stuffed Pizza. Many of my recipes are already on my website, LeoSpizzirri.com. I hope you will check it out. Thank you for your comments.
I take my hat off, tip it & bow..... As a heavy researcher, this has been the holy grail in flour theory. God bless you for sharing this info. I'm just a home pizza maker. But being born & raised in New Haven, CT, I have a high level of expectations for pizza lol. And I moved out of New Haven over 20 years ago & been trying to perfect pizza at home just because A: I love to cook & B: I love a dam good appiza. I will visit your site, because I still have a couple of questions. But thanks again for taking the time to make this video and sharing it!!
Thank you Wyo. Please check out my new RU-vid channel "The Pizza Garage with Leo Spizzirri." Tomorrow I am publishing a Master Class on Chicago Stuffed Pizza. Thank you for your comments.
Second time watching this video, and this time a lot of things resonated even more. Best 30 minutes spent in RU-vid in a while. Here's my case: Based on my research, my home flour should be a Tipo 1 flour (not labeled) with 12.3% of protein, but no info on the W value. I've tried several hydration levels, from 62 to 70%. I do a 48/72 hour fermentation. Doughs from 62 to 65% work great. Doughs above 67% don't rise properly, not as much elasticity, are weaker and easier to rip when stretching, no dough bouncing, no big bubbles, and I presume the end result is a chewy dough also. As per what I understand in this video, the W value it's probably ~300 or lower, as it seems this flour is not capable of absorbing that much water. The only question mark I have is, I did one batch with 68% but doubled the amount of yeast and it did rise better; would higher yeast help to avoid rhe described above from happening? BTW - I'm balling up after preparing the dough, might try bulk again now that I understand better what it does. PD: I would love to hear tour take on what makes a dough chewy or not.
Thank you John. I appreciate the comments and that you are watching the channel. More videos coming in the near future. If you are participating in Pizza Expo 365 (free), I just published a video called Dough 101 that you might be interested in. Thanks again
Thank you, Pablo. I have started a new channel called Pizza Garage. www.youtube.com/@thepizzagarage Most of the videos on this channel are also over there and many new ones. Please check it out and subscribe. Thank you.
Very good insight from a pro. Thanks. It seems like you're pushing a brand, but I'm wondering, since 00 flour is relatively expensive in the U.S., is there a way to make make it somehow at home from all-purpose flour? Perhaps by grinding it?
Thanks for a very interesting video. Do I understand you correctly that the Pizza Napoletana flour is good for medium length rising times outside of the refrigerator (say 18 hrs or so)? And if I want to let the pizza dough rise for 48 or 72 hrs in the fridge I'd better use the Superiore? I have access to these two 5 stagioni kinds of flour and I want to make sure I'm using them correctly.
When using the Pizza Napoletana flour for dough that is not refrigerated, it is important to mind the ambient conditions when storing the dough before baking. If you can maintain an ambient temperature of 65 to 70 degrees Fahrenheit, 18 hours can be achieved with 3-5 grams of fresh yeast per kilo of flour. I have also had great success using Pizza Napoletana flour in refrigeration for up to 48 hours. The Superiore flour or Blue bag is a very versatile flour. I have used this flour on a wide range of Italian style pizzas. 48-72 hours is ok but remember that as you come close to 72 hours the dough will begin to deteriorate, especially if a preferment or bulk fermentation step has been used. If you are going experiment with doughs in the 72 hour range, you should start looking at the Oro or Red bag. This flour has a high protein content and W number and can withstand longer cold fermentation. The results are incredible. The crust will have a crispy exterior and a light and airy crumb. I hope this helps, let me know how your pizzas turn out! Thanks for watching my video! Leo
Hello Leo: this was great info about pizza flour and now I understand little bit about the numbers off the flour, but can u tell me please what is the best pizza flour in Toronto, Canada 🍁 if u know. Thank you 🙏
Leo, Thank you so much for your informative videos. I think I could pick your brain for a month and still have questions. For now however, I need some clarification and a little more information on bulk cold fermentation. I exclusively do Neapolitan pizza, or as close as I can get to it. I cook outside in a woodfired oven I can get reliable to 825-850 degrees fahrenheit. For now I'm using 00 flour with 12.5% protein and a W of 310 because that's what's available. I also use a dry yeast for the same reason. I like the longer fermentations for the flavor complexity I think the added time provides. My hydration is 59-60%. I let the dough sit out at about 68-70 degree F after mixing then form my balls and refrigerate for up to 72 hours. I haven't had any real problems but I'm wondering if I should bulk refrigerate and degas after 24-36 hours to release some of the CO2 then form my dough balls and refrigerate another 24 hours. I would love to hear your thoughts and any other suggestions. Thanks, and keep the videos coming.
Fred Ireland Hi Fred, thanks for your question. I have a few thoughts... First, if you are making a true Neapolitan dough, there is never refrigeration. What you are doing in the long refrigeration process can easily be recreated if you have the proper ambient conditions. First, I would work on your process. Your ambient temp should be between 68-72 degrees with about 65-70% humidity. Water temp should be about 80-85 degrees. After mixing, store the dough in a large lexon container for approximately 12-14 hours. Divide and round dough then store in dough boxes for 10-12 hours before using. Using this process with your current W310 flour will yield a similar texture and cell structure as the long cold fermented dough. Keep in mind that if you are using Instant Yeast (IDY) your bakers percentage shouldn’t be more than 0.3%. If you must long ferment cold due to your type of business, I would definitely degas the dough as you mentioned. The alcohol developed during fermentation acts like toxic sludge to the dough. Simply reball to degas and store until ready to use. If you cold bulk ferment all the dough after mixing, I would suggest a series of folds once an hour for 3 hours. This will strengthen the gluten network and create a great cell structure when baking. Divide and round the dough after 24 hours of bulk fermentation. Use dough within 24-48 hours. I hope this helps, please let me know how it goes. Thanks, Leo
Thanks so much. Just to let you know I'm a home pizza maker not a pro, but it has become quite a passion. I'll let know you how I progress using your recommendations. Don't be surprised if I have more questions in the future. Hopefully, they be be such that others will benefit from your help. Thanks again, Fred.
Thank you Rich! You are absolutely right, I didn't realize how many times I said the word "OK"! Who knows, this video might turn into one of those college drinking games where you drink every time I say OK! LOL. This could go viral! I appreciate your input, thanks again for watching. Leo
Crazy, learning a whole new realm about simple things like flour. It would be really helpful if there way some way to test American flours W rating, such as some "odd" brands where they have no clue about it's W rating. How can we test the W rating from home at some accurate way... The way how the alveograph functions doesn't sound too complicated to make a DIY version of it.
Great video, just to clarify, about the PH level it goes from 0 to 14 which 7 is the neutral. the lower means more acidic, the higher less acidic. Not the opposite.
hi leo thanks ; here in my country all purpose has 11.4 ^percent protein content can i use it for pizza instead of bread flour since we dont have 00 flor here. thank you again
Thank you very much, Could you be so kind to give me more information in regards Naturkraft, with this product, I can make mother yeast?, following instruction 18-30g for 1lt, how many mother yeast I´ll get.
Excellent and highly informative video! Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all that out. I'm using a local 00 flour -- Graincraft Neapolitan, and the protein is listed at 12.2-12.8... But as far as I can tell there is no data available as far as the W rating goes... I've reached out to GC but no luck yet. Are you familiar with this flour, and what would you estimate the W rating to be? 25# bags down the street are $10, so I'd really like to find the best way to use this flour. Thanks again!
Hi Zac, thank you for your comments. So as you learned from the video, you can have two flours with exactly the same protein, but they can have different W values. That being said, the protein and W do move in the same direction, so here's some very ballpark values. Your specific flour may be different. 11% protein, approx. W = 250. 12-12.5% protein, approx. W = 300 13% protein, approx W =330. 14% protein, approx. W=390-410. I hope this helps.
Hi Leo, I’m using a 5 staggioni 00 Manitoba with a hydration of 80% , I’m using a spiral mixer. I add water slowly to get the gluten and zucca semi formed and add last little bit of water slowly with a squeeze bottle. Problem I’m having is dough takes for ever to come together. It eventually does after 30 minutes of mixing but temperature of the dough is high at that point. What could this be. Flour to strong for 80%?
Ask Leo Pizza Hey man! Can I use 5 stagioni pizza napoletana 11.5% flour with my own strong sourdough starter, 3 hrs bulk fermentation, then forming and 24 hrs more cold fermented? Any advice?
Hello Chef.. thanks a lot for all this valuable great information. May i ask you: When u mention the W rate of each flour (for example, when u are saying that the red "Farina Di Grano" W rate is 390). Where exactly do u get this number from ? Because i wasnt able to find this data anywhere ! Also, is there any way to calculate the W number, by using any of the other flour data parameters ? Thanks a lot again.. Omer
Most of the Italian flour producers show the W on their package or if you go to their website, you can find it in the specification. The American producers typically do not show the W value. You can't calculate it from the other data parameters that are typically shown, but there is mild correlation with the protein percentage...higher protein percentages tend to have higher W value, but it is not perfect as I said in the video. Try looking up the specifications and let me know if you still have questions. Thank you for watching the video. Many more new ones on the way.
Hello Leo, I am a retired dentist who now spends his time as a pizza geek. My favorite pizza is a siciliano with a light fluffy crumb and a crispy underside. What is your favorite restaurant for this style pizza? What is your favorite recipe for this style pizza? Looking forward to meeting you at the academy when this lockdown is over. Sincerely Antonio Lombardi DMD
Thank you for this informative video. I have the pizza napolitana flour and 65% hydration was too high and my pizza came out a bit gummy, why does it say 4 g protein , I thought 4g on the label means its about 13% protein?Thank you in advanced.
Great scientific analysis of the flour but I've been using Cummins Milling flour of 12.8 % and it's a dedicated pizza flour from them. About $8 for 5kg and makes beautiful pizza. I wouldn't ever go back to imported flours
great material and very informative! thnx i use 5 stagioni w300 at home oven with 270C. how i can get high sides? today i made the dough and put it to rest 24h. hope will get good result. i used 500g flour, 1g east, 16.6 sea salt and 333.3ml water.
Hello Jeannine, Thank you for your comment. So I an understand correctly, I am guessing that when you refer to "High Sides" that you mean the raised round edge. In order to obtain this type of raised edge, there are a few things that you should be aware of. Based on the dough formula that you provided, you should have plenty of yeast and water to achieve this. Also, your oven temperature should be fine as well. When you say that you are putting the dough to rest for 24 hours, again I am assuming that this is means that you are placing the dough into refrigeration for 24 hours. I am going to list some steps that you should try in your process to assure that the dough will rise and give a nice raised "Cornicione" (raised edge). 1) After mixing the dough, let the dough rest for 15 minutes in the bowl of the mixer. 2) Remove the dough and portion into the desired weight for each dough ball. This could range from 250g-300g depending on the size of the pizza that you want to make. 3) Roll each dough portion into a smooth ball and place into individual containers with a lid that seals tight or a dough box that can be covered. 4) Place the dough into refrigeration for 24-48 hours. 5) Remove the dough from refrigeration and allow to rest in its covered container for at least 90 minutes before stretching. 6) When stretching the dough ball, dust with a little flour and remove from the container. In order to achieve a raised edge, the dough should not be stretched with a rolling pin. It is always better to work the dough with your hands while taking care not to disturb the edge of the dough. 7) Once the correct size has been achieved, place the dough onto a floured pizza peel or onto the back of a flat pan. 8) Top the pizza with your choice of ingredients. 9) Place the pizza into the oven and bake on a preheated baking stone or baking steel. If you don't have these available, you can bake the pizza on a pan. *For a crispier crust, brush the pan with a little olive oil before adding the dough. 10) Bake the pizza until the toppings are well baked and the bottom of the crust is nicely browned. 11) Remove pizza from the oven, cut and serve. I hope this answers your questions. Please feel free to respond if you need any more help. Thanks, Leo
thank you for such detailed description. should i place the dough into the fridge? this night i leave it at the kitchen in air temp. later at the evening i will make pizza and will check the result. is it enough yeast and wate in my dough formula?
For my New York, I like to use a blend of the Superior (13% W330) and Semola Rimacinata. I use them at a ratio of 90/10. For the total hydration, I usually stay around 62%. I bake in a 550f gas deck oven but I can't even begin to tell you how incredible it is to make this style out of an electric deck! Thanks for watching! If you have a chance, check out the new content that I'm posting on The North American Pizza & Culinary Academy channel!
I use sometimes King Arthur Bread but mix it with Tippo 00. I just ordered a flour fro. Italian "Rimacinata Cuore" which says Semolia Di Grand Duro Rimacinata" did you ever hear of this? Its hard Wheat.
Hi Chef Leo, it would be great if you could do a video on water absorption of Caputo flours and its effect on dough. I think many people unwittingly use too high % of water for the Italian Neapolitan Pizza flours.
I agree. too many people claim certain hydration are the best but weaker flours are weaker flours. I no longer try to force a 70% hydration into a flour that can't handle it well. I take what the flour gives me and get the best performance from that dough.
Hello chef I’ve been trying to achieve a puffy light crust with the le 5 stagioni line of flours sadly I couldn’t achieve that I was wondering if I could get some help Kindest regards Rashed
A lot of mills have now stopped printing this information on the bag since the video was made many years ago. You’ll need to search the web for the technical spec for the particular flour type and mill. The technical information will all be listed here, including the W.
Is the w factor listed on the labels. I looked on our bag of organic flour with 11.5% protein and don't seem to find it. That gold sounds like it make good Bigga pizza dough.
I blend flour a lot depending on the type of baked good I'm making. My go to is usually 00 flour and semola rimacinata at a ratio of 90/10. This combo is great for doughs that range from 65%-85% hydration! Thanks for watching! Check out The North American Pizza & Culinary Academy channel for more great content!
Hi Leo, thank you for very useful information. I have question for you - does oil count as hydration? I heard oil help streching dough, but how to use it?
Hi Jonathan and Emily, I appreciate your watching. We have more videos coming soon so please check back or subscribe and get notifications. Thanks again.
My flour is 4g protein at 2.2 lb bag. What would be the percentage for that? How do you figure the protein percentage? I use red label Caputo 00 flour.
Hi James, the best way to figure this out is to go to the supplier's website and get their specifications. They will always show the protein percent. The Caputo Red has 13% protein and a W of 300-320. I hope that helps. Sorry it took so long to respond. Just getting this channel back up and running.
The Italian flour manufacturers typically include it on their label or the flour specifications which you can find on their websites. US manufacturers do not typically publish this.
Thank you thank you thank you for rescuing me from the deep rabbit hole of mistaking 13% protein flour for 280_330 W rated Neapolitan pizza flour 🙄 why the hell they don't put the W rating on packs is beyond me! Obviously my choice of strong white bread flour for Neapolitan pizza was wrong 😂 still edible, but wrong! Thank you for explaining this so clearly and eloquently xxx
