Understanding Outside the Church There Is No Salvation with Michael Lofton

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#eens #catholic #theology
Understanding Outside the Church There Is No Salvation with Michael Lofton
In this lecture, Michael Lofton discusses the history of the dogma known as extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Latin for outside the church there is no salvation). He addresses figures such as Justin Martyr, Cyprian, John Chrysostom, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Francisco de Vitoria, Robert Bellarmine, Francisco Suarez, John Henry Newman, Pope Pius IX, Pope Pius XII among others. He also addresses magisterial teachings including Unam Sanctam, The Decree to the Jacobites at the Council of Florence, the Syllabus of Errors and the Second Vatican Council. He demonstrates how Lumen Gentium paragraphs 14-16 are in continuity with the pre-conciliar era and discusses some of the common problems in the post-conciliar era concerning this doctrine and provides some solutions.
Michael is a graduate of Christendom College Graduate School of Theology where he received his Master of Arts in Theological Studies (Cum Laude) in 2018. He is currently working on a doctorate in Theology with Pontifex University and is writing a dissertation on the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Michael is the founder of the St. Maximus the Confessor Institute and the Reason & Theology show, where he has interviewed many of the leading figures in contemporary theology. He has also appeared on EWTN, Catholic Answers, SiriusXM Radio, Radio Maria and has contributed frequently to various newspapers and websites.
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24 мар 2021

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Комментарии : 82

@dwong9289 2 года назад

“Outside the Church there is no salvation is a dogma. You have to accept it whether you like it or not. And personally I do like it” - based Michael Lofton.

@Jordan-th3pr Год назад

timestamp?

@Patrick_Bard Год назад

@@Jordan-th3pr 1:32:16

@stevenstuart4194 3 года назад

Truth bomb by Michael Lofton - great show

@dwong9289 2 года назад

You are doing great work Mr. Lofton. Before you, schismatic types had a monopoly on this content, at least in the online sphere. But you brought nuance and synthesized the truths revealed through all the councils.

@ReasonandTheology 2 года назад

Glad it helps!

@willmartin5183 3 года назад

Michael, the Church is truly blessed by your ministry. Thank you for helping us to navigate the sometimes confusing aftermath of an ecumenical council. And the double Windsor - cha ching.

@nikkivenable3700 3 года назад

I have a problem with this very thing. I’m going to listen and try to understand. Thank you, Michael.

@Catholicity-uw2yb 4 месяца назад

ST. POPE JOHN PAUL II: When brothers and sisters who are not in perfect communion with one another come together to pray... their prayer is the soul of the whole ecumenical movement. If Christians, despite their divisions, can grow evermore united in common prayer around Christ, they will grow in their awareness of how little divides them in comparison to what unites them. “It is absolutely clear that ecumenism, the movement promoting Christian unity, is not just some sort of ‘appendix’ which is added to the Church’s traditional activity. Rather, ecumenism is an organic part of her life and work, and, consequently, must pervade all that she is and does.”

@mazda7873 Год назад

Thank you R & T for clarifying this doctrine which is indeed hard especially if we know people that are not in communion with the RCC.

@islanddream8306 3 года назад

Thanks, Michael Lofton.

@aaronreimer1869 2 года назад

Wow. thank you so much. Incredibly helpful, thank you for giving your time and resources (I'm a protestant seriously studying Catholicism and this answered a lot of questions I've been having, thank you for the resource!)

@ReasonandTheology 2 года назад

Glad it was helpful!

@voxangeli9205 3 года назад

The way to understand how the Church has acted through the centuries, as I wish all Christians will do, is to approach it in these 2 very important but overlooked ways: 1. Christ, in establishing His Church on Peter, said that “WHATEVER YOU BIND ON EARTH SHALL BE BOUND ON HEAVEN, AND WHATEVER YOU LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN”; and 2. Christ promised His Church that “THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL GUIDE IT INTO ALL TRUTH.” One can truly understand and realize the significance of these 2 related Bible truths in the spirit of faith and confidence in Christ only. God bless, everyone.

@dianekamer8341 3 года назад

This is excellent! Thank you!

@TheChunkyCrusader 3 года назад

Michael, serious question. Do you plan on making St. Maximus the Confessor Institute an actual university or something of the sort? If so, well well well I might have to consider going (I'm in high school right now) :)

@ReasonandTheology 3 года назад

Possible in the years to come.

@TheChunkyCrusader 3 года назад

@@ReasonandTheology Cool. I would sign up. I'm only 1 state to the west of you 😉.

@ReasonandTheology 3 года назад

@@TheChunkyCrusader I hope it grows into something that big

@antoniopioavallone1137 3 года назад

Excellent lecture!

@zita-lein 3 года назад

Nice job! This was helpful to me.

@ignatiusmanfredonia Год назад

Excellent presentation, Michael. R&T is my favorite channel. I just want to add that the Latin in LG #16 is "saepius" meaning "more often", which is even stronger than the English translation "often" that you were citing.

@BradSchepisi 3 года назад

Great presentation! Any chance at getting a copy of that Power Point?

@buscandoelcatolicismo Год назад

Thanks Michael. I think having a deeper understanding of this dogma helps to understand better Nostra Aetate and Unitatis Redintegratio. It helps to better understand the mind and spirit of the Council Fathers. Many superficial criticisms to VII may come due to a lack of deep understanding of the dogma ECNL. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you very much. Very helpful

@buscandoelcatolicismo Год назад

Amazing video thanks Michael. What do you think about the SSPX related to EENS?

@Patrick_Bard Год назад

About what Florence says at 34:26, the reference I could find for that excerpt finishes with "[...] and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church". Doesn't that negates baptism of blood? Doesn't that also poses some problems to interpretation that "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" can refer to informal membership to the Church? Genuine questions, I would like to know how to respond if I ever come across someone who understood it like that.

@norwegiancatholicism9106 Год назад

When you quote all these saints and documents, why didn't you use any reference at all? Is it another place where I can find it?

@vilorwaa 3 года назад

Solid presentation of the various ways to lay out EENS in Catholic history, although I would have liked to see a bit more emphasis on what Scripture says about what is necessary and what is sufficient for salvation - as it seems to say in many places that faith or profession in/of Christ is sufficient in order to be saved (this is not to exclude works, without which faith is dead, so I do not mean to express sola fide (and that is besides the point, as I see it); in any case, the belief in the Church from an epistemological point of view is not a work). In particular, I think it is to go a bit to far to say that the Holy Spirit does not work in non-Catholic Christians. Does that mean that the Holy Spirit did not work in Gregory Palamas, even though he is considered a saint in Eastern Catholicism, or, more generally, does it mean he did not work in any human in Christian areas which for a long time were geographically isolated from the Roman Catholic Church? Epistemically, the reasons why someone is not yet a convinced Christian are usually very different from why a Christian is not yet convinced of Roman Catholicism being true. A necessary component of the former is trust in the account of the resurrection, while a necessary component of the latter is assent to a particular interpretation of revelation which one holds true as a derivative of the former, it being about the papacy or some other doctrine which would leave Roman Catholicism the only option. One could say that just as a Christian persevering in faith by necessity would not commit sins which would lead him to lose salvation, he would also by necessity discard all schismatic sects, but there is a huge difference between these two. While the epistemology of the former is trivial, while living according to it is the hard part, it is usually the opposite with the latter. Working out whether Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy is true could be extremely hard, while everyone who is in the process of doing it, is disposed to and wants to become member of whichever of the two churches is the true one.

@Doctorbeeburger 3 года назад

When Rahner talks about graces granted through false religions is he referring to actual graces or sanctifying grace?

@ReasonandTheology 3 года назад

Sanctifying

@MountAthosandAquinas 3 года назад

Michael, would you be willing to share your notes from this talk?

@ReasonandTheology 3 года назад

Yes. I can post them on the website soon. Aside from the slides most of it was extemporaneous so no notes on them.

@MountAthosandAquinas 3 года назад

@@ReasonandTheology thanks for the notes and the new vocab word. Extemporaneous. I like it

@Catholicity-uw2yb 4 месяца назад

ST. POPE JOHN PAUL II: “The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the Gospel revelation or enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace, which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.”

@vituzui9070 3 года назад

I think we should distinguish between "assuming culpability" as a methodology vs "assuming culpability" in reality. What I mean by that is that we have to evangelize people "as if" they are culpable (i.e. we act "as if" they are culpable just in case they are culpable ). But we should not actually believe in our minds that, yes, they are definitely culpable (i.e. we should not make a real assumption or judgment about whether they have actual culpability), because this goes against Jesus command to not judge souls. Rather, we should suspend our judgment interiorly and remain agnostic about their actual state of culpability. Also, when I say that we have to evangelize people as if they are culpable, I don't mean that we have to accuse them or berate them. I mean that our desire to evangelize them should be as strong, loving and urgent as if they were culpable (like the father who desperatly wanted the return of his prodigal son).

@ReasonandTheology 3 года назад

Jesus forbade us to make hypocritical judgments about people. Not judgments at all.

@vituzui9070 3 года назад

@@ReasonandTheology Ok I understand. But I think in order to make a judgment about the culpability of someone you have to know them enough for that. It would not be fair I think to make a judgment simply based on the fact that they are not Catholic if you don't know them personally.

@Dragonarrr Год назад

@Reason & Theology How would you exactly define "implicit faith"? It is quite hard to understand what is the precise difference between "implicit" and "explicit faith".

@ReasonandTheology Год назад

Explicit faith is they directly know and believe in whom they are placing their faith in, and implicit faith means they may not know who God is but they are disposed to believe in him and would believe in him if they had known who he was.

@Dragonarrr Год назад

@@ReasonandTheology Thank you, it was helpful! Yet it seems to me that the line between explicit and implict faith is a little bit vague and blurred. It could be said that the distinction is rather psychological than theological.

@TheZeroSbr 2 года назад

This is a great explanation. I only have one question: How can we be sure that Muslims and Christians do in fact worship the same God? I want to assent to V2 in its entirety, but I'm not sure how to reconcile this statement in LG about the Muslims worshipping the same God, even if they don't do it in a salvific manner, with the fact that the Muslims have a corrupted idea of who God is. They're not comparable to the Jews who simply have an incomplete concept of who God is; their concept of God is straight up wrong. If we say that because they're monotheistic they must worship the same God, then is this also true for other monotheistic religions aside from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam? Again, I want to assent to V2 in its entirety; I don't want to be in schism. Perhaps this question is just a manifestation of my scrupulosity, but I've been wondering and asking this for a while and never gotten a satisfactory answer.

@ReasonandTheology 2 года назад

Check out my playlist on Vatican II on the channel. I know I deal with it in several videos engaging Lumen Gentium.

@laurent-8235 3 года назад

thanks Michael for the presentation. could u explain to me what kind of level degree of ignorance that someone may be save? especially people from other religion. is it still acceptable in this internet era when almost every person in this world can Access and try to find out about Truth (Jesus) and His Church? thanks

@killianmiller6107 3 года назад

I think part of the answer lies in the idea that even if someone explicitly tells you “follow Jesus, be baptized, join the Church, receive the Eucharist” etc but it was not presented in a persuasive way, their ignorance can still be ignorant, in which case the possibility remains that they can be saved outside the visible boundaries of the church. The level of ignorance has to be enough where you are not at fault for being ignorant. The mere fact of near infinite accessible information shouldn’t be the deciding factor, because maybe you don’t know where to look to find persuasive information. But actively avoiding information that might change your mind could very well be cause for _vincible_ ignorance.

@michaeldonohue8870 3 года назад

Hey Michael, there is a common objection raised against Catholics which says that: "If EENS is true, then your salvation for many centuries was largely geographically dependent?" Of course our response is detailed in this video, drawing distinctions, recognising the possibility of extraordinary means by which God reaches those, let's say in the New World, in the first milennia. Perhaps sending an angel or something, or they have all of those conditions, invincible ignorance, implicit faith and baptism of desire implicitly... How now would you respond to the objector who says that that kicks the can down the road essentially and raises a new problem. "If EENS is true, then the likelihood of your salvation, the help you receive for your salvation viz the Sacraments and the truth, is largely dependent upon geographical location for the first millenia let's say" At that point is the response simply, God does not owe us salvation let alone a common standard of help to every individual for their salvation? Or is there something more we can say here.

@bazzy8376 3 года назад

IMHO being "chosen' was always geographically limiting. And, He does not owe us salvation. And, God is not bound by the sacraments, He can save whoever He wants, (the good thief.)

@dianekamer8341 3 года назад

WRT Rahner's shtick re "Anonymous Christians": When I first heard about this way back when, I envisioned a Hindu retorting to Rahner, "Well, maybe *you're* an Anonymous Hindu!" It just seemed like such a supercilious, condescending approach. In the name of irenicism and ecumenism, Rahner was actually being rather patronizing. I mean, Father Rahner, dude, please respect non-Christians enough to recognize their need for the same Gospel that saves and blesses us Christians.

@joeowczarzak2819 3 года назад

Why is this the only dogma that needs a detailed explanation to say that it really means something else?

@SammyJ.. 3 года назад

@@Wgaither1 “Easier” does not mean true

@neophyteone712 3 года назад

Joe, you have to place this dogma adjacent to the dogma that every soul is given sufficient grace to be saved. These are two contrary dogmas yet when contemplated they allow the soul to glimpse at what reason cannot.

@joeowczarzak2819 3 года назад

@@timothyspjut6300 How did the saints understand this dogma?

@joemathis6551 Год назад

So, around minute 37:30 he says that god would not hold someone (an aborigine in this case ) culpable for something he could not have known. So what about original sin? God holds ALL humans culpable for Adam's "sin", yet all humans did not participate nor know of Adam's "sin".

@ReasonandTheology Год назад

The context was accountability for willful sin. Obviously everyone is impacted by actions of others in one way or another.

@joemathis6551 Год назад

@@ReasonandTheology So we are impacted by Adam's "sin" in such a way as to make us all culpable for that "sin"?

@joemathis6551 11 месяцев назад

@@ReasonandTheology I don't think you addressed the issue. Natives are not culpable for not knowing Jesus. It is biblical and traditional that God would not hold you responsible for something you could not have known. No human knows or, more importantly, participated in original sin. So how and why are we culpable for it? Yes, were are impacted by others' actions but we are not culpable for them.

@deusvult8340 9 месяцев назад

@@joemathis6551Original sin is a disease or defect, and like life, it’s unfair but it is still there, if you don’t like this type of answer then just think of original sin as the lack of grace that Adam and Eve had within the garden due to their sin

@deusvult8340 9 месяцев назад

@@joemathis6551Also God had written the law of nature in their hearts as Paul says, if they even do not abide by that law, they have no excuse