Seems to me that the 2nd Advent precedes the Millennium. Rev. 19 lays out the results of the 2nd Advent ("Two Suppers"), and Rev. 20 follows chronologically from it.
Joy to the world, the Lord is come. Let earth receive her King. Let every heart prepare Him room. Let heaven and nature sing. Joy to the earth, the Savior reigns. Let men their songs employ, while fields and floods, rocks, hills, and plains repeat the sounding joy. No more let sins and sorrows grow, nor thorns infest the ground. He comes to make His blessings flow as far as the curse is found. He rules the earth with truth and grace, and makes the nations prove the glories of His righteousness and the wonders of His love
I know im randomly asking but does anybody know of a method to get back into an instagram account? I somehow lost the login password. I would love any tricks you can give me!
@Merrick Orion thanks for your reply. I found the site through google and im in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@@ryangallmeier6647 Doug Wilson is a futurist, not a true preterist. He believes in a yet future resurrection and coming of the Lord. But true preterism i.e. full preterism is indeed the truth.
Great interview and good job and getting to the point with the questions, guys. Doug is an awesome and gracious brother. I gotta ask this though, what is the outro song? It kinda drowns you guys out but it sounds so good! 😆
@David Wilson Was hoping to hear about Zechariah 14. Any chance you could link a source for either Amil or PostMil perspective of Zechariah 14 1-5? Having a hard time finding anything online. A time stamp and link to one of your other videos would suffice if its covered there. Thanks!
Doug Wilson is right about Christians "false alarming" about the Second Coming (58:55). I think more and more Christians will eventually move from a pessimistic imminent eschatology to a more optimistic distant eschatology.
That "false alarming" proves to even those who don't know the Bible that premil dispensationalists have no idea what they're talking about. And, unfortunately, to any degree that the masses think premil are Christians, the credibility of Christianity is destroyed.
@@jamesreed5678 Most Christians are only familiar with Dispensationalism and are totally unaware of any other type of Eschatology. I fear the same is true of most non Christians at least in the U.S. And the result is yes, the credibility of Christianity suffers. Things were different from the late 1600s until the late 1800s when Postmillenialism was the dominant view. At that time most Christians had an optimistic and a distant eschatology. In the 1700s and mid 1800s Christians weren't predicting when a 'secret rapture' would take place, but rather were predicting when slavery would be abolished and when war would be abolished. What a vast difference between our spiritual forefathers and the church today?
@@scottleary8468 Dispensationalists treat their doctrine as center of their religion, so they talk about it a lot. Preterist pastors don't talk about eschatology much, because it isn't the center of their faith and they also go too far in trying to avoid offending Futurists in their congregation. So, yes, many people, including myself, wasn't even exposed to what the Bible really taught, for a long time.
I'm not a PreTrib, Mid or Post. The Lord will return as the Bible says when it's His Time, so just make sure your Soul is sealed with the Holy Spirit and you'll make Heaven not Hell your Eternal Home🎉
I think the weakest part of Doug's view, which I agree with almost 100%, is his view on the new heavens and new earth. He struggles to take an analogy by Isaiah and makes it literal and so feels the need to adjust things to make sense of it. It still fails though because if we are in the new heavens and new earth then why do people die before 100 and we don't think they die young? No, the anaology Isaiah is making is saying "In the New Heavens and New Earth we are going to live so long that if someone were to die at 100 (not that they will die) we would think that they died at an incredibly young age." This is in a time whe people rarely lived past 40-50 years old so it would have been an exaggeration when someone lives twice as long as most people that they were actually young when they died. It is not meant to be taken literally, just like all the other clear analogies in that Isaiah passage. Make that one change and you have a simplier view like the rest of DW's views on this topic.
The more I review and examine postmillennialism, the more I am convinced that I have completely believed lies from many mentors of mine or that postmillennialism is simply delusional. This topic really needs to be addressed by some sort of council. Lets quit the friendly jovial debates and figure who is teaching the wrong view. Its crucial.
There are definitely more similarities than differences between these two. A few differences would be how they define the "end of the age" that is is it referring to the Jewish age (postmil) or is it referring to the age of humanity (amil)? Another point would be that postmil's will always be partial preterists and amil can go either way, with that distinction they make look at the book of revelation very differently (postmil will see most of it with a more literal first century fulfillment and amil will see it as a more allegorical and broad fulfillment throughout all of church history).
This is the passage Doug speaks about where he contends the New Heavens & Earth are present. The final two verses speak to a completely different paradigm where wolf & lamb graze together and Lions eat straw. Personally I can see the age references as similar hyperbole to the age refs in the Rev.. If it weren't for "The youth will die at 100, and those who don't reach 100 will be thought accursed." Our 19yo son died in Christ (our hope) & this passage gives me general hope for sons & daughters living long lives. If this is the New Heavens & Earth, there also must be Marriage & Giving in marriage. For PM'ism to be correct, this entire passage has problems. I'm still fairly convinced the New H&E are the eternal state & Isaiah's prophecy is partially hyperbolic. Otherwise we're looking at creation changing if wolves and lambs will graze together. After watching this i-view (great job men,) I am more Opti-Millennial than ever, even as an amillennial dude. Doug Wilson is a thoughtful, cool guy. ”For behold, I am creating a new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come upon the heart. “But be joyful and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for joy. “I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be joyful in My people; And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the voice of crying. “No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not fulfill his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred, And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed. “They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit. “They will not build and another inhabit; They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people, And My chosen ones will wear out the work of their hands. “They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for terror; For they are the seed of those blessed by Yahweh, And their offspring with them. And it will be that before they call, I will answer, and while they are still speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will do no evil nor act corruptly in all My holy mountain,” says Yahweh.“ Isaiah 65.17-25
Great interview! Something I've been struggling with as I've embraced the postmill view is the 2nd coming of Christ. Since Jesus's prophesy was fulfilled in 70 AD where do we turn to in scripture for the promise of his future coming? I feel like all of my go-to verses for his 2nd coming have been swept out from underneath me lol
@@WorldviewWarriors can you explain how Matthew 24:30-31 fit with the end of the age rather than the end of the cosmos? I’m postmil but struggle to reconcile the language with the surrounding text. Love your teachings, thank you so much for your ministry.
@@1977Jackofalltrades thank you brother that's such an encouraging comment! For v30 I think we have to look at how scripture elsewhere uses similar descriptions and language- Isaiah 19 for example uses extremely similar language to describe the fall of Egypt. The preterist argument here would be that "God riding a cloud" is a metaphor for his judgement upon a nation and that with that in mind we can say that Jesus "came on the clouds of Judgement to Israel" in ad70. V31 I think is a little trickier but I think preterists would argue that "angel" here simply means messenger (a term referring to somethings "function" than somethings "being") and that this is referring to the great commission- Christ sent out his messengers to proclaim the gospel to the ends of the earth and although this isn't something that's finished yet its something that began at his ascension. Total disclosure- I'm not 100% convinced by this particular interpretation but I think it's highly plausible. Hopefully that helped! A book I'd recommend to you is "Matthew 24 Fulfilled" by John Bray!
Pretty easy stuff, as long as you're able to throw off some presuppositions. But, we need to find out what those are first. 1). The 2nd Advent of Christ. Some Scripture references: 1 Thes. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-55 (which is all about the resurrection of the saints that will occur at the 2nd Advent); Jn. 14:1-3; Mt. 13:24-30, 36-43 (the parable of the "Wheat and the weeds" is significant because it's a parable that Jesus actually explains later to His disciples). When Christ returns: 1). All the wicked living (those who have the "Mark of the Beast") will be slain by the holy angels (the "reapers"). 2). The dead saints will be resurrected (Glorified); 3). The living saints will be changed into Glorified saints. 4). All the saints of Christ from all time (including O.T. saints) will be caught up to heaven for a 1,000 year reign, whilst all the wicked will be dead...in the grave for 1,000 years to await their resurrection unto judgement (after the 1,000 years). 5). At the end of the 1,000 years (the saints having been studying "the books" for 1,000 years); the New Jerusalem (the "Heavenly Jerusalem"; the REAL Jerusalem, which is NOT on the earth right now) will descend from heaven, with Christ, His saints, and all the angels; the wicked dead will be raised, and God's judgement poured out upon Satan, his fallen angels (who have been inhabiting a desolate earth for 1,000 years!), and all the wicked will be utterly destroyed together in the Lake of Fire. 2). Jesus' prophecy fulfilled in 70 AD? Which prophecy are you referring to specifically? Are you maybe referring to Mt. 24? If so, then I would never suggest that anyone begin a study of Bible prophecy with Mt. 24. Why? Because there is too much contention over the proper way to interpret the text. It's NOT clear enough. We should begin a study of Bible prophecy and end time events with the more clear Scriptures that talk about it. Eschatology is an increasingly exciting area of Systematic Theology to study. Especially knowing how to properly read and interpret it. Protestants of the Reformation and post-Reformation era were NEITHER Preterists, NOR Futurists. Both these schools of thought, as well as the many falsehoods regarding the truth about Rev. 20 (the "Millennium" passage), are examples of the state of the church as a whole today. Prophecy is one of the ways God proves that He's God. We ought to treat it much more carefully than we have in our day. If you have any questions, let me know. I have a couple videos on my channel as well, if you're interested. Hope to hear from you. *Soli Deo Gloria*
Excellent on Isaiah 13:1-10. Apocalyptic language for the destruction of Babylon; apocalyptic language for the destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21. The Bible is full of allegory, unfortunately with the current society, with it's government provided education system, and "dumbing down," and all of that, some are simply unable to see anything except through literalist colored glasses.
Is there any way to get in touch with Doug Wilson? I'm trying to find where this claim comes from (31:00) of Nero persecuting Christians for 42 months.
We got a hold of him through his church, but the Neros persecution began in 64 and ended when he died in 68. Ken Gentrys work would be worth looking into as well.
@@WorldviewWarriors yeah, I've been looking into postmillennialism a lot in the past few months and it's very clear in scripture. I'm trying to look more into preterism, particularly the Mark of the Beast which I had heard from somewhere was fulfilled in the libellus but the libellus was something that appeared in the persecutions of 250AD and onwards. God bless you guys, may He have dominion from sea to sea.
Dan 12:8-13 ISV 8 “I heard, but I didn’t understand. So I asked, ‘Sir, what happens next?’ 9 “He answered, ‘Go on your way, Daniel, because these matters are wrapped up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, cleansed, and refined, though the wicked will continue to act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand. Nevertheless, the insightful will understand. 11 There will be 1,290 days from the time the regular burnt offering is rescinded and the destructive desolation established. 12 Blessed is the one who perseveres and attains to the 1,335 days. 13 Now as for you, keep on going until the end-you’ll rest and then rise to receive your reward at the end of the age.’”
@@jakebarnes3054 The Wars Of The Jews Or The History Of The Destruction Of Jerusalem Book II CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF SIXTY-NINE YEARS. FROM THE DEATH OF HEROD TILL VESPASIAN WAS SENT TO SUBDUE THE JEWS BY NERO.
@@WorldviewWarriors Ken Gentry has an awesome 3 video series on Revelation. I have watched it twice and in a couple days I will start my third time around.
Typically postmills will say that it was the Roman army destroying Jerusalem in AD 70. If you look in the parallel accounts of Matthew and Luke, Matthew (to a Jewish audience familiar with Daniel) says "when you see the abomination of desolation run for the hills" and in Luke's account (to gentiles who were not familiar with Daniel) he says "when you see the city surrounded run for the hills". Several historians note that when Jerusalem was surrounded by Rome in 70 the Christians fled the city and were sparred but those who stayed in the city were obliterated.
@Larry Houghton typically it's the same as in the Amil scheme- it's the time between Christs Ascension and Second Coming. Also my email is davidwilson9245@gmail.com, feel free to reach out!
So the author that helped him become a post-mill advocate was himself an a-mill advocate? I think that says it all in terms of his relationship on this issue relative to Scripture.
Matt 24:30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. If you are trying to tell me that this is Jesus talking about the destruction of Jerusalem I would have to strongly disagree with you... which means I am not sure I can really trust your understand on other things as well. Sorry man.
Oh yea, I'm also surprised that he agreed to this interview because he has sworn off talking to two guys wearing matching maroon sweater vests...jk. He actually does a great series with Dr. James White called The Sweater Vest Dialogues. James sometimes even wears one of his ugly coogi's.
The millennium is only mentioned one time in the Bible? He lost me right there. It is mentioned many many times in the Bible, both old and new testaments.
No sir it's only mentioned in Rev 20. There are other places that speak of the Kingdom of God or a messianic age or other terms that are frequently associated with the millennium but Rev 20 is the only place it's ever mentioned explicitly.
@@WorldviewWarriors Just because the word millennium isn't used does not mean it isn't mentioned. There are several passages that clearly describe the time of the millennium because they outline characteristics that are unique to it. The millennium is easy to discern because there is no other time like it.
@@BeachBumZero Yes that's what Doug was saying, since the term is not used elsewhere thats where systematic theology comes in. This is also a point of contention between post and amil as they have different models of the "ages" spoken of in scripture and what exactly they refer to.
After 30 or 40 years or so (there are then no full humans left for which Christ died) then how is the Gospel preached? Think days of Noah, where none were saved. (Only his family) Thanks
I don't know if it's this video or another, but Doug Wilson says engys, ἐγγύς, literally means at "arms length". That is wrong. It literally means "at hand" and is derived from another word meaning the inside of a bent arm. Jesus defined the word by saying when the trees start to leaf, summer is engys. "Arms length" is also an English idiom that means the opposite of engys. The phrase means not near.
Was not Christ sent, and the Gospels all written to the lost sheep of house of Isreal? Paul's mystery to us gentiles was not revealed until Acts 17 and his letters to the churches. Thanks
Luke had a primarily Gentile audience and John was mixed. Yes Acts 17 is a big shift but the events of Acts 17 took place decades before it was written.
So glad Doug pointed out the FACT that the Reformers and post-Reformation writers (including Jonathan Edwards) were HISTORICISTS. They would have refuted the Preterism of Doug Wilson. And, they would have refuted the Futurism of Dispensational Futurists. That's why I'm an Historicist. Not only this, but because the Bible clearly teaches it. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
1:04 - doug on John 3.16 is not specific enough. Sounds like universalism Jesus came for the elect only, the chosen ones from each nation. Those who refuse to repent, will be CONDEMNED. Which Scripture predicts.
No, Doug's point is very good. God did not send his son to condemn the world. Why? Because of verse 18, the unbelievers are _already_ condemned. Not, as you say, _will be_ condemned. There condemnation is already the case, so Christ does not need to do it later, Christ needs to save us from our condemnation.
@@oracleoftroy 1. God does NOT NEED anything or anyone . 2. Jesus said: But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.'" (Luke 19:27, ESV)
@@philipmurray9796In Matthew 24, Jesus describes the Great Tribulation of Daniel. To take this view of eschatology is to state Jesus was exaggerating as the Tribulation of the 1st Century no where equaled the Tribulation during the 1930s and 1940s. By the way, Satan during the Millennium is to be bound. If you can’t see Satan at work today you are blind. To also take this view is to deny the authority of Revelation. To do that is dangerous as there is a curse attached to taking away or adding to Revelation. If you’re reading it as it is written, you are taking it as it is. Obviously, some is allusion, but those areas are pretty obvious. The rest is pretty easy to read as real events that will happen. Lastly, to be post mil isn’t optimistic, it is prideful. I’ve heard Jeff and Doug say that we are responsible for building the kingdom to a level in which Jesus will come back. That’s not Biblical. Jesus, John,Daniel, Paul and anyone who talks about the last days states it will not be Godly, but evil will be the rule and righteousness the exception. We are at the end. Disciples were made out of the nations…the entire West was based on Christian values. But, now each country is going their own way. We have to fight this, yes. But, we in our own strength can’t stop it. We must save as many as we can before the Tribulation begins….or they will choose eternal condemnation.
@@adverseinperpetuity By accepted definition (not in the news): Postmillennialism expects that eventually the vast majority of people living will be saved. Increasing gospel success will gradually produce a time in history prior to Christ's return in which faith, righteousness, peace, and prosperity will prevail in the affairs of men and of nations. So to start, let’s see the words of Jesus about the times prior to his return; Read all of Matthew 24 and in this verse: Matthew 24:37 (ESV) For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. What does the Bible tell us the days of Noah were like? Genesis 6. Just one chapter in the book of Matthew and look how many scriptures have to be denied to believe this nonsense. I could go on and on, but my guess is you won’t heed the Spirits warning and will continue to listen to false teachers.
@@markpalladino3468 Kenneth Gentry as well as others that are in line with Wilson hold that Matt. 24.36 onward starts to talk about the second coming of Christ given that the second coming is not proceeded by signs but the judgment of Israel would be greatly proceeded by signs. And this would comport well with what Jesus said that all prior to verse 34 would be fulfilled in his immediate generation. These are the words of Christ after all. I understand the framework of it might be foreign to you but perhaps withhold accusations like “false teacher” until you actually understand the position beyond just this video. We could all serve to be more humble about these things to honor Christ.
Jesus never teach he will come back on earth !!!!!! He teach this= John14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. all the ones who teach a millenium on earth TO COME are LIARS.
Funny that they think this is the most “optimistic” view... seems pretty hopeless to me. Not to mention how much twisting of the Bible is necessary to make the view work...
How in the world is any other view more optimistic? The premil schemes see things getting so bad for the church that was Jesus comes back to rescue it and in the amil scheme the success of the gospel is primarily limited to the spiritual realm. In the postmil scheme though the gospel's success extends to not only the whole world but every level of the world. You can argue that another scheme better fits the Biblical data but I dont know what grounds you stand on to say that postmil isn't by far the most optimistic.
@David Wilson, Amen brother! I've been PostMill since late 2018 after being PreMill for decades. I've was even PreWrath but then I heard the orthodox Preterist and Post Mill teaching from guys like Doug, Ken Gentry, Gary Demar and others. Everything fit. All my "questionable" passages that I had put on the back burner because I couldn't figure out how they fit all came together. Within a couple of weeks it was quite settled. I was relieved I hadn't spent any significant time on eschatology on my channel. But I certainly will be now. Thanks for the interview!
@@GodsTruthMinistries If I may ask a question. By "PreWrath" you mean that the church would be raptured, before basically all hell breaks lose, right? I have been listening to Dalton Thomas, from FAI, they have a RU-vid Channel. He believes that the church will witness the coming of Jesus and there will be no rapture to help the church avoid any persecution. I am trying to make heads and tails out of all these understandings of end times. Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you and God Bless.
@@fernandoalarcon8534 I have been listening to FAI as well and find them very balanced with no agendas that I've found as yet. But a lot of that depends on what is already in your head. We see through our own filters which are very hard to discard sometimes. Maranatha.
David Wilson. why did you have the Biblically ignorant Doug Wilson on your program for? Anyone who knows the Bible will know that Jesus come BEFORE the 1000 year reign. How can Jesus reign ON EARTH for 1000 years, THEN come back to earth. Rev 20: 1--4.
