THANK YOU for getting that expensive Underwood Extreme Defender ammo! And a word to folks who are not impressed with the clear gel wound track: keep in mind that clear gel is a silicone rubber compound and is much more stretchy and elastic, and does not show wound damage well. Organic gelatin behaves much more like real flesh, and there the Extreme Defenders make a huge wound. You can see a huge spiral track of permanent wound channel left behind. I am impressed with the accuracy too!............................elsullo
Very interesting test. However, where the XDs excel is tissue damage, something that gel blocks don't show well at all. What more people should know is that there's a 51 page multi-bullet/caliber analysis for law enforcement (entitled: 2016/17 JOINT AGENCY BALLISTICS TEST FOR DEFENSIVE HANDGUN AMMUNITION) that reached the following unqualified conclusion about the Underwood Xtreme Defender: "Overall: This was by far the most impressive round tested. After over a year of testing this round became the most requested round to test after some of the agencies reviewed draft shot data." and "The radial flutes increase tissue pressure and direct the tissue outward to increase wound diameter. ... tests confirmed that in over 100 shots the measured wound channel was not only larger than that of an FMJ but in most cases was the largest wound channel produced in that caliber compared to all other rounds to include fully functioning hollow points." and "All rounds in all calibers tested penetrated 15.2 - 20 inches with and without barriers. " and "Every single shot did roughly the same thing. There is a 0% chance of failure to function because there can be no failure to tumble or expand (because they don’t) and no chance to fragment. This was the most Reliable and Consistent round tested." It's discussed on p. 32-33.
What I'd really love to see is a comparison of the 9mm Xtreme Defenders (90 gr. std and +P) vs. the "best" JHP's (like the 124 +P HSTs or Gold Dots) shot from a short barrel like on the various hot micro 9's (P365, Hellcat, etc.). That'd be an apples to apples test that most EDC's could put to good use.
Winchester M1152 against the Xtreme Defender would be a good comparison. The M1152 is a 9mm FMJ flat nose. Lucky Gunners product description recommends that it only be fired in +P rated pistols.
I'm a big fan of magnum rounds but I honestly thought the 9mm would have more penatration than the 327. The more test I'm seeing with the 327mag the more impressed I'm getting with it
I rarely shoot anything else these days. With cast boolits and primers, powder, and cases obtained long before the current shortage, I can choot the .327 cheaper than .22, by far. Sips powder (2000+ rounds from a pound of Bullseye or HP38); nibbles lead (I have molds for 85; 95; 125; and 135 grains. The heavier ones are SWC, the others RN). Factory Federal AE 100gr SPs average 1600fps from a 4 5/8" barreled Ruger Single Seven; 1565 from 7 1/2" barrel; and 2250fps through a 20" Marlin barrel. Ruger Single Seven: Carries like a .22, choots like a .38, and hits like a .357. Finally, The Ideal Trail Gun. I carry it every day.
It would be interesting to see the .327 Extreme Defender against the .327 Federal Mag Gold Dot, by the way watching your content got me to purchase two Ruger .327 LCR's. One for the wife, thanks!
I use Lehigh Extreme penetrators in my 380 pocket pistol. I can use hollow points in this state, but the light bullet out of the short barrel is notorious for bad expansion. That's why I use it. In my 9mm and other larger more powerful guns, I go with proven hollow points like Gold Dot +P 124 grain. I like the Lehigh (and Underwood) copper non-expanding rounds for the pocket pistols though.
Considering the barrel length differential was 1.325," the shorter Ruger produced very respectable penetration. Would have liked to see this comparison with a 3" Ruger SP101 in place of the LCR. As comedian Steven Wright says "You can't have everythng. Where would you put it?" Thanks for producing this video.
Do you think the Extreme Defenders do enough damage to be a viable alternative to HP ammo? Not having to worry about ammo expansion yet having decent damage would appear to be a good thing,
They do in gel and in fresh animal shoot autopsies that I've seen. Not dramatically wider, but longer wound channels. But I still see vids/comments on YT by people claiming XDs just ice picked right through in their animal shoots.
It's primarily an alternative to JHP's in states where JHP's are banned or more penetration is desired. I do believe in certain calibers it's a viable alternative to traditional FMJ as it certainly has a more consistent wound cavity comparatively speaking. But when compared to a JHP, most deliver larger wound tracts part of the way, just not the whole path. Kind of like the differences between fixed blade broadhead's vs mechanical. Mechanical when deployed properly can get larger but fixed blade is often more consistent.
Results are about as expected. Wound tracts are more consistent than FMJ with similar levels of penetration. Of course, that's what it was designed to do. It's pretty good ammo as a whole and certainly preferable to running FMJ in short barreled guns and smaller calibers where penetration is important but JHP designs don't do well. The .32 ACP is a prime example of how this ammo changes it up.
The FMJs surprised me, I expected them at least entering the second block, so that was an interesting surprise. I have to say I’m also very happy I live in a state (Georgia) where I do not have to worry about what type of ammo I put in my gun. I can’t believe that’s even an issue, but apparently it is. Thanks for another good test. And just to let you know I have not gotten one yet, but I really, really, REALLY like that Ruger .327 magnum.
Now we know what a few inches less will do to our performance. 327 had Surprising and impressive results. Good shooting Sam and a nice vid for Friday night chillin.
Xtreme Defender rounds are good rounds. Niche round, but still an option to consider. I've used them on hogs and quite effective to get rid of any nuisances. Great work Sam and nice shooting!🎩♠️☯️
Why do you supposed 327 is in such short supply? I saw the extreme defender for sale recently, but that's about it. Thanks for shooting with the LCR too, now I know how it performs in mine!
The laws limiting someone to using fmj makes no sense when it comes to over penetration, and the probability of needing more rounds to stop the threat leading to possibly missing the intended target more.
Hello Sam, i live in a European country where semi-jacketed bullets (hollow point) are not allowed in pistols (only rifle). Full jacketed bullets (FMJ) are allowed and the cool thing is that these extreme defenders are not partial jacketed bullets, which is why they are allowed in most European countries. Unfortunately, they are very expensive and you don't see them often on the shelves.
Another great video Matt n basically of all I’ve seen mines well just have a 9mm With more shots n cheaper all way around with much more options for both ammunition and weapons cause it’s just basically all powerful as them other calibers with less recoil.!.!
@@Predalien195 out of a 4 inch barrel it runs at around 1700 feet per second. And speed kills armour. Check the videos i posted in my other comment. Right away at the first shot it passes through 3A body armour
@@ralfhtg1056 Was never debating that speed doesn't kill armor. But I've seen the round tested and fail to penetrate plenty. While the threshold for most 3A armor is around 1,550 to1,600 to penetrate bullet design plays a role too. I have no doubts it can do it, just often don't see it do it unless it's old armor.
Love the content.However,there is another type of person whom buys Extreme defenders and penetrators.The sort of person who has watched enough ballistic tests to come to the realization that atleast half of what is on the market does not function as advertised.With some that clearly do function as advertised costing in the $25-50 dollar a box of 20 range.Now,from what I have drawn from all tests I watch over basically a lifetime of such content is a handgun definately does not drop people like the hammer of thor with few exceptions (one of the full size 10mm test you did had some awesome results).You want full penetration of a target and you want the majority(ideally all) of the energy in that bullet gone when it exists that target.A tough order for bullets.I know alot about a local self defense shooting in which a armed perp. took multiple .40 federal HSTs.One of which cut his heart in two.That guy ran down the block before succumbing to his wounds.His firearm, a short barrel shotgun was ,luckily for my friend, not fuctional.So from a person whom has a reasonable knowledge of handgun ballistics I can determine that sometimes ball ammo works just as good or better than some hollowpoints.I can also determine in a small caliber like .380 I would not be comfortable with an expanding bullet.In something of a larger lower velocity like a .45 I would need alot of evidence that the hollowpoint actually expands.Anyhow,keep up the good work!
Yep, sadly NOTHING handy enough 'will' drop a well activated threat fast, at a very high % People took 12G SLUGS to the chest and kept moving for long seconds.. Power-recoil-tempo.. Some knownothing Euro guys thought it was OK to put a 3shot burst mode on SWAT teams' SMGs. Throwing FMJs.. 2 trigger pulls, 6 shots of 'anemic' 9x19mm in little time. More bullets, more chances of hitting the spine/pelvis/head and more holes. More ammo/higher capacity, less risk of ending up empty if you half mag dump on the threat between the crotch and the eyes. More chances of getting lucky too. FEDERAL SYNTECH DEFENSE was kinda cheap for a well made fragmenting bullet line of ammo. Don't know if some guys shot lots of pigs to compare with other bullets.
Good video, but extreme defender is not chosen because of regulation not allowing it. It’s chosen because it outperforms JHP especially related to barriers such as leather that plugs hollow points preventing expansion. The underwood is barrier blind.
The arcing with the extreme defender being different for the two rounds my question is are the pistol and revolver barrels rifled with the twist in the same direction? Or is one right hand twist and the other left hand?
@@GunSam Probably not. Off topic, do you have any plans to pick up a Ruger LCP in 22LR, AKA the Rack LITE? I have not seen anyone run it head to head with the Beretta 21A Bobcat in 22LR. The numbers would suggest the Ruger is better, but it may be worth handling both.
The 66 is a K frame and the 686 an L frame. The 686 will feel chunkier. Both have pros and cons. The 66 is a fine gun, and assuming it's a new production you will have a gun as strong as the 686, you will have an internally lined barrel sleeve so the barrel is always straight and you have a better lockup detent. The 686 is more classy, but it's using the old style screw on barrel and less lockups. Basically if it were me, being a 3" and already going for that compact feel, i'd go with the 66. But you really can't beat the more classic look of the 686. The 66 is more practical but the 686 is a real eye candy piece. Up to you.
Think one test you could use a clean ballistic gel and just unload a full load of revolver hp ammo at it about as fast as you can? Maybe repeat same revolver but with fmj ammo? Never been done before.
Yes it has, but even more impressive than that. Full box of 9mm - done by myself. While it's not revolver ammo, I would say 20 rounds beats 6. Video one - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Nq5ch_Gd9IM.html video two - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-retxcsyv5hs.html
Those were pretty impressive. Not *quite* enough for me to give up my 9BPLE or HST loads in 9x19, BUT if all I could find were the Underwood rounds, I'd feel pretty good carrying it. Now, about that 9mm FMJ ... WOW ... I figured it'd clear both blocks. Crazy. If that load produced consistent penetration 18" or less, I'd say it'd be a decent carry option.
Off topic, but looking at the new Hydrashok Deep and seeing how it has a mechanical bond like the HST, but a post like the Hydrashok...I have come to the conclusion that if Hydrashok Deep is the next version of Hydrashok but bonded, than HST MUST stand for Hi-Shok 2. Just has to.
That was a great test with interesting results. This is one of those test that will bring up the light fast vs. Slow and heavy. In my opinion I don't see a a 90gr bullet busting through thick bones or through the hand of the bad guy holding a gun and then penetrating far enough to. I could be wrong just my opinion
Russians use steelAP 9x19mm rounds and it seems to do OK going through hands or AKs before entering torsos. Don't think the steel part is really heavy.. maybe less than 90grain. What I'm trying to say is that homogenous hard bullet parts going fast enough will go through what needs to be punched through in normal circumstances. Even if parts of the bullets stop along the way. In abnormal circumstances, more rounds is always better. Always the same logic.. A slimline glock with steel mags packed full of rounds from cheap FMJ 25_ACP to modern 7mm_NAMBU would make for a handy, lightweight, high tempo, low recoil bullet thrower. Small bullets yes. But
Biggest Takeway Sam keeps proving 9mm 115 at least, maybe 124 doesn't over penetrate like people say...but maybe sometimes real world it does see recent AntiGunner playing with gun not following rules through the woman into man behind...guessing 9mm ball...but then again I think she was a normal small not obese woman. Sad...
While the Jug-or-Not was fun, I pretty much stopped using it for several reasons in addition to how I like to see the suspended minute differences in penetration. One is that you only get one shot, so filming more than one test has me hauling dozens of gallons of water, in the winter often. The gel makes it easier to capture these bullets and go home without making things muddy or icy or hurting my back too bad. Also the splash is a pain to bring down the cameras every shot and wipe off. It was just a lot of work for in my opinion, for less results and for more money as the gel is cheaper because it's remeltable.
Regarding perceived recoil and hits on target. The light weight extreme defender appears to slightly less recoil... but still penetration applied appears desirable... Could you speak to the comparative perceived recoil, shot recovery and handling aspects of the two types of ammo compared? Effective is measured many different ways, penetration is only one variable. The "perception" is evasive and judgmental, but what is your opinion on ease of shooting of the two ammo types compared?
They were about the same. Yes the Xtreme are lighter, but they are also longer so I think possibly the way the blast remains in the barrel along with extra friction of solid copper makes the recoil come out to about the same.
MY VID W NEW Diamondback Sidekick. 9Shot .22lr/Magnum revolver is live tomorrow and I give you some shutouts. The other big takeaway is Screwdriver bullets are for suckers that want to part with their money....clear gel tears real flesh moves out comes back in microseconds below 2200 fps-2600fps depending on what tissue...if it worked it would really work in rifle rounds right? hahahaha Maybe from 10k fps bolt guns near future but not now
Where are hollow points illegal? Sounds like a dumb law. People and law enforcement don't just use hollow points because they are more deadly, they also use them because they don't penetrate as much as fmj, which reduces the risks of injury or death to innocent bystanders when you have to shoot someone.
