Updated PAY-TO-WIN Breakdown (Throne & Liberty) 

Streaming non-stop Throne @ twitch.tv/kanonxo - come hang out!

I am so happy that these days we're going "well it's not that P2W because the whale can't get to max gear score day one" like what the actual fk, I didn't realize that the standard was "beating the game day one"

Nah fam its just p2w

Jeeze... This is a lot of systems. I'm still excited for the game but damn the currency bloat in all these kind of games is crazy.

the breakdown is ez. korean mmorpgs = p2w done.

my opinion is that p2w players gets super geared early release so they get to farm f2p players. the thing is how fast can a "f2p" catch up to these p2w players without the game dying in 2 months

The more I see the more I decide not to play unfortunately.

Same argument as in Lost ark, this game is pay 2 win just accept it

If I dedicated 12 hours a day, 7 days a week I will be able to compete vs a guy playing 1-2 hours a day, with a girlfriend, social life, big house, nice cars! LEZZZGOOOO!

rare polished crystals can be infinitely farmed in dungeons as long as you don't complete dungeon (kill miniboss, quit, repeat).

you should try comedy club :D. Funny to listen about progressing, p2w from a player who spent >30k usd already :D. Would be interesting to see your experience as a f2p player on global and insights after.

Honestly, I feel like our perception of P2W has been warped over the years. This is the argument I made in my video, but to summarize: Sure, with grind, a F2P can keep up with a whale in T&L, and so people are tempted to say, "it's not pay-to-win, it's just pay-to-progress-faster", but that's kind of the same thing. You still are paying to win, because a whale that puts in 100 hours will ostensibly win _more_ than a F2P player that puts in 100 hours. The fact that a F2P player has to grind more or work more at _all_ is, by definition, pay-to-win!

the only question you need to answer is "will the pay2win affect me when I play ?"

the main idea here is a free-to-play player can't get this items in time BEFORE the next update rolled out. That player never catches pay-to-win players.

Sorry man but this system REALLY turns me off.

If pay to win isn't a big deal then you should play the whole na launch without paying anything to prove it.

If all the pvp is designed arround a rock/paper/cisor counter principle, I guess 1v1 pvp have no sense right? You will just beat what you counter and get beaten by your own counter. My conclusion is that it is mandatory to play as a group to enjoy pvp in this game, is that a correct statement?

Wow... that is actually more P2W then I thought it would be WTF?! Gear purchasing, Gear upgrade, Traits, then Traits Reso and the Runes system like is there something that is not P2W ?

I was hyped and waiting for this game! But honestly I flushed it down in the the toilet...

just know, ncsoft is known for implementing more p2w later into their games after launch

Long time MMO player. I am thinking of playing T&L. I see videos telling me to get a guild immediately, or that I need to get to max level as fast as possible. Can I not just enjoy the game first? When I find a guild, will I be told what meta build(s) I have to play? Will guild sizes be maxed, or will there be stacked guilds on each server that no one can compete with?

i needed this, not only you discuss the p2w stuff but you also give me the tldr of how to get everything. thanks!

They better not pull another Argos on us.

I got bamboozled into playing Lost Ark when that game came out, not falling for it again.

This was informative, thank. I will try it out, after all new mmos launch are always fun for me. My only turn off is seeing how the best weapons cannot be obtained really unless you are in a guild who control these Archeboss (I gotta admit I still dont understand who get the weapon loot if there is like 4 guilds tagging a boss for example). It would be nice to have alternatives, like a very long chain quest where you grind dungeons and open world stuff, bosses that would drop items (personal loot) on a % base chance, which would lead to the crafting of a strong weapon that can compete with these BiS one from Archebosses . Think GW2 legendaries grind basically. Oh well, I'll give it a go, will see how long it last. After all, I wasnt expecting to play LOA long and ended up putting 4.6k hours in, might be the same here.

Thank for the video. I wll not play your game.

lots of cope in the comments, played the KR version. good luck with this one boys lmao. people are gonna shit when they see weapons selling for 1,000+ usd in lucent value.

good to know.. canceled my pre-order. P2W garbo.

I’ve played a few mmos before. The cash shop won’t be a problem but the bots will be. It’ll be like lost ark and NW rmt.

Hi, you seem very knowledgeable and would love if you could help me with a decision between which class to play. I’m waiting for global release of game. I’ve narrowed it down to either sns/gs, gs/dagger, staff/bow, dagger/bow or staff/dagger. I mainly want to pvp but of course I will pve as I level up. Farm materials and weapons and gear so I need to also be strong for pve dps Of the combos I listed for PVE dps which one is best? Next question is in terms of 1v1 3v3 and if I want to try the bigger guild battles. Of the weapon combos I listed. Which do you think is better to 1v1 someone. Or in group scenario or more. Which combo can kill fast and stay alive well. I read that range is not as strong as melee but I seen some clips where range really does very good against people kills fast and seems to stay alive well. How would range compare to the melee gs builds if the range builds came into 1v1 or 3v3 etc against melee. Which of these weapon combos is easier to learn? Which has higher potential. And which is probably easier to go kill someone fast and pvp and pve idk.. Any advise please. Also which armor would I need and any info please. I seen tier lists and I narrowed down between those melee and range combos I mentioned. I rlly like idea of the staff and range etc. but I don’t Wana die fast and be squishy I want to be strong high damage

TL is pure P2W from the roots.

You can certainly try to sugar coat it a bit, but no matter what, if paying gives any advantage over not doing it in PVP, even if it's only for a few weeks, then it is P2W. That's it, that's the definition. This probably won't go well in the West.

Great Video Kanon! I played the beta and loved the world, the combat and much more. My big hang up is the upgrading. The number of systems, and mats and steps for those systems to upgrade is staggering.... They want in my pocket at every turn for a different point of progression. It feel a little like if a job, but at this job I'm paying them for the privilege of being able to work for them. In my opinion its way more complex than it should ever be. If you want my money make it fun, and make it simple please =P

@KanonXO Can you please estimate the difference between players with Arch Boss weapons and those without them? 5%, 10%, 25% dps? I know it's a hard question, but just a ball-park would help.

it was stated that the auction is locked to level 40

I think the system is like this. As you said, it is actually possible for a f2p player to do anything. However, the system will constantly be strengthened with each new content and f2p players will constantly spend time catching up with p2w players in this cycle. I don't know, it doesn't look very enjoyable.

Pay to win and Korean MMO is synonymous. Most veteran gamers know this. It's comes down to how egregious the P2W is.

Guild to win is the same as p2w Its obvious that guilds with archboss weapons will be full of p2w players or will have insane requirement for a f2p to join

Regardless of how pay2win Throne is or not, all of the people in the comments defending pay2win systems needs to reevaluate their lives because yall are completely brainwashed and making yourselves look like sheep. If you are willing to play the game and invest time into it despite the pay2win that's totally fine, but defending predatory bullshit is not. I PROMISE you the multi-billion dollar corporation that tries to squeeze ever dollar out of you constantly does NOT need you to defend them. That's like someone robbing you, and you thanking them and buying them dinner afterwards. TLDR; If you like and want to play the game that is totally fine. But don't defend pay2win systems, they are a not acceptable or necessary for a game to thrive.

Saying the trait system has no RNG to it is extremely misleading. The RNG is built into the conversions and gear farming for traits. The only time there isn't RNG is when you're using unlockstones and people should not be using those in the early stages of global.

Appreciate you being open about it all, thank you.

So P2W doesn't mean "exclusive items and gear that give an advantage to players that pay money" and now means "leveling is faster, sometimes" ?

Good to know, I won't play TL. 💀

People coping so much here just because they're desperate for a new engaging mmo. Just give up guys this game is not it, it will walk the same path as Lost Ark did.

Im squishy to magic damage therefore p2w is not an issue

this video makes no sense you must not know the company that is releasing this to believe that they will not add P2W AFTER the game is released of course they won't show it in the beta version are you new here?

I would love to have more info on leveling weapons after your main combo and also leveling secondary armor sets. I would love to play 1 char with 5 weapons and the armor sets needed.

there is a HUGE difference in buying stuff from an AUCTION HOUSE (another players drops) and buying from the cash shop. in this video you didn't show mt ANYTHING that can be bought directly from the cash shop, so to some whale have an item, ANY OTHER PLAYER NEEDS DO DROP IT FIRST! how this is p2w?

are the early access packs worth it if you are fine to spend some money every 3-4 months(max 100$)?

in game currency can pe purchasable through real money but the ingame shop should not sell upgrades/equipment or anything that will enhance the characters, they should buy via auction/trade house that the players sell

Can you buy coop dungeon items now?

The fact that they demand 40 bucks for 5 day early access shows enough, how greedy and disgusting their business model is. Don't go down that road or you get miked until you're dry.

is it possible for a casual to throw on random everything and end up with a goated build? also how many hours if you rush to get to full build? if you do not p2w. Do you have any advice for a small group of gamers that are gunna grind leaderboards?

I know you are doing your best kanon to promote this game. I will be trying it out myself. However, the pay 2 win is bad here. We can’t hide from it. This game will NOT work in the west. Bc its integrity is gone.

Good luck killing p2w paladin with tevent wand)))

What i'm curious about is if whales p2w early and they're able to do content that is locked to f2p players, is it possible for them to snowball by selling stuff they farm to f2p players. So they pay early to get an advantage and make the money back they spent and much more by selling items/mats on the market for p2w currency and get rich fast (rich get richer). Feels like that's how the mechanics work and it's absolutely horrible.

Im ok with skins in shop if they match the game (not like TERA).

after lost ark, i will never touch another kr mmo trash again

You are forgetting about boss fragments from fishing/expedition/chests which are sellable and with the amount of players we will have across multiple servers in the same AH cluster they should be available very early. Whale should be able to easly buy them out even before we unlock actual arch bosses.

thanks for video .. can i ask why this game is blocked in half of the earth ? my country cant play this game cos it is region blocked ..is there aguide how to play the game in blocked region

what is the most chill effective way to play this game? I do not want to invest so much time into it or make it at least less stressful

So Kanon western version will be the same like korean i mean every fuckin stuff will be p2win?!

what do you Meen by the better guild gets the arc boss weapons?

Remind me if you've heard this before, "It's p2w but....." Boy do I have a bridge and video titled "This game respects your time." to sell and show you.

Its a korean game. Expect heavily ptw

Still no official discord for throne and liberty? WTF

This is the same as with AION back in the days, you could pay to win your ass to the top I an few hours but freetoplay players will reach the same level on a 2 to 3 months time frame and the update to raise the power cap normally took over a year., in another words it was pay to progress faster which I don't care what other people say, it is still paytowin. Throne and liberty comes with a lot of the NCSOFT old games core mechanics and by the way all those old games had a long time of no pay to win with promises to never implement such mechanics just like happening now, and let me tell you something, Throne at somepoing in the future will end up being paytowin as fck as NCSOFT always do.

You mfs keep feeding the beast.

whelps easter egg early in the video

What would be the best NA East EA server for pvp be? I want to make a guild to be on top(ambitious) but worried I’ll be on the wrong server(idk if I can transfer guild over)

some scraps arent worth damaging ur rep

People hate it when you call their game p2w. Their bias is so apparent, lol. Solid video, Kanon regardless.

pretty sure trait res and runes sytem wont be in the game on global launch

Could you go more in depth on the rock paper scissors nature of the game? Can I still kill my "counter" if I'm better than them, or am I just fucked? I was really excited about this game but I don't know how I feel about the idea of someone else beating me simply because they have a different build.

is whelps a F2P player?

No clue why people even whale. Paying to not play a game is the dumbest shit ever…why even play games if you are just going to buy everything and not experience said game?

$300-$400 to max a character is not bad compared to a mobile MMO, however this game will probably die quick in the US. I'll try the combat atleast and compare it to newworld

To pay to win for me, no play.

When back to best game ever Black Desert Online?

This video just convinced me to play New World. Thanks!

Yeah, I am just gonna stuck to GW2 that's not pay to win

So you have to roll for the boss weapons? What decides who gets the weapon?

How are you already playing?

Really nice video kanon as always

Thank you for touching on this. Im still on the fence about this game because of P2W. Trying to find the courage to play this.

lmao people crying "i will not play the game" but its already in top sellers on steam xdd

Knowing KR games im really surprised it was only 3-400 to max one gear set and that there's a cap.

Thanks Kanon! Great video Tbh this seems reasonable. People that have work and dont have time can pay to catch up, and people that have time can spend more time. Company needs money to maintain and pay their employees. Seems fair to me. I just hope it doesnt get more P2W than this. Pretty reasonable imo.

In short there is some time gated materials that prevent you from getting absolutely best items if you p2w right away, but you will be way stronger then regular player and i guess you will be killing a lot of people because of the power difference for few weeks or months till normal players catch up. Then new content release and same thing repeat.

I Want to know your armor color number 😅

Basically from what i understand swipers can max gear in a few days and f2p will take a few weeks, but in that time new tiers of gear and new systems will probably be introduced over and over constantly pushing f2p players in the dumpster while swipers stay ahead. :barf: I understand rock paper scissors but man thats depressing and instantly turns me off.

Every Korean MMO is pay 2 win.

Oh well, the one video that made me unsubscribe.

just cancelled my preorder as well. not interested in anything remotely p2w, done with the whole upgrade system that black desert and archeage had. why cant we just simply have a good game to get immersed in and enjoy. everything now days is play this template this "meta" trash, or you cant be in the guild , guild events only blah blah maybe I'm just getting too old I miss star wars galaxies

it sounds more like pay4convenience than pay2win. the lucent/auction house sounds more like how it is in warframe and guild wars 2. but also the difference is there's no direct pvp impact in wf/gw2 vs t&l.

Thanks for clarifying, I'm not playing this p2w garbage. I'll play f2p newworld if I decide to play an MMO.

Will they support KB and M on console?

kanon episode 1000 of pay2win video lets goooooooooo

Ughh just too many menus..

Do you hear yourself? om