Upgrade APC UPS With LIFEPO4 Batteries!!

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Regular lead acid batteries only last 2-3 years on standby in a Uninterrupted Power System (UPS), time to upgrade the batteries to longer lasting Lithium Iron Phosphate (LIFEPO4) batteries.
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6 дек 2023

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Комментарии : 32

@haydenc2742 8 месяцев назад

I found that my UPS the lead acid batteries got out of balance in the setup...I ended up wiring in an external 24v battery balancer module into the pack and it seems to help quite a bit. (its mounted externally and it's ugly/janky but it works) Pretty cool there are lithium iron phosphate batteries that will replace lead acid batteries Thanks for this! Keep em coming!!!!

@Altirix_ 8 месяцев назад

the only cosideration is lead acid cells have a much higher max discharge rate. for those LFP batteries its about 6A while those lead acids datasheet shows them drawing upto 33.4A per battery. as long as you stay under 6A per battery its fine,

@adriftatlas 3 месяца назад

Yeah... The BMS in each battery is rated for 6Ah. At a nominal voltage of 12.8V that's 76.8W per battery. The pack of 8 can thus sustain 614W before the BMS in each battery trips its overcurrent protection. That's not accounting for DC to AC conversion losses. The APC SMT2200RM2 is rated for 1,920W. Even if the load averages less than 600W it may peak during server boot. If it's on battery it will drop the load.

@kevinforget549 Месяц назад

Another issue is that it isn't great to keep lithium batteries always at 100 percent charge. Youl probably still get a good 5-7 years out of them but it cuts their lifespan significantly.

@TalpaDK 2 месяца назад

Strongly suspects that apart from not charging the batteries correctly this would also confuse the remaining run time calculations inside the UPS potentially leading to unclean shutdowns of any servers attached. (The discharge curve for LiFePO4 batteries are quite flat)

@AlexDiamantopulo 7 месяцев назад

Any updates on this project? :) Have you changed the floating voltage using serial terminal?

@MinorLG 7 месяцев назад

Auburn contemplating stopping my UPSs batteries with lipo/lifepo, but I'm running ub1270s. 12 volt 70mah

@roninkmh7625 2 месяца назад

Can u even hookup this many lifepo4 batteries? There is a limit to how many bms can be paired right?

@marioprzepiora 2 месяца назад

Yes you can. No, there is no limit as BMS is per battery so in this configuration, each battery is only aware of it's own state.

@kevinforget549 Месяц назад

As long as it's in parallel and not in series it shouldn't be an issue.

@PermutationCo 7 месяцев назад

The issue I keep seeing on this subject is that the APC (expecting a Lead Acid battery) tops out its charge voltage at around 13.5v... no where near the 14.2-14.6V recommended for these new batteries. I'm not sure what that does to either the capacity or longevity of this upgraded setup. Mine uses 10x of these, so that's $190 vs $100 for 10x lead acid ones (fleaBay).. Even with under voltage charging, if this setup were to have a longer runtime AND a longer lifespan than lead acid, I could forgive it being sub-optimal... I'd still be happy.

@KuntalGhosh 5 месяцев назад

That is not true. The ups goes upto 14.4v per battery & then drops down to 13.6v float voltage. I have been running home made Lifepo4 for 5 years without any problems. Can not use bms the ups cuts out at 20v which is right around 2.5v per cell and that is just tad too close to the bms's own cutoff voltage so the bms cuts of early sometimes if one of the cells goes few mv out of whack. And then the whole ups does not restart automatically when mains is restored. So i just use cell balancer and not having a problem. The ups perfectly handles charging curve. I have monitored with a multimeter for hours on how it charges the battery.

@leecewest 2 месяца назад

@@KuntalGhosh Is 13.6v too high for a LiFePO4 to float at? I used LiFePO4s in 2 small UPSs and the capacity of the batteries dropped fast without any cycling.

@KuntalGhosh 2 месяца назад

@@leecewest nooe. Mine stays at 27.9v all day long & i haven't noticed any drop in runtime. Almost 6yrs now

@leecewest 2 месяца назад

@@KuntalGhoshThats good to hear. I left a multimeter on mine for a couple weeks and the voltage never went above 13.63v. The batteries lost half their capacities (according to a capacity tester) in half a year. I took one battery pack apart (12Ah Cyclenpo 38910) and found one cell lower than the others. I still need to test the individual cells.

@KuntalGhosh 2 месяца назад

@@leecewest probably something wrong with your cells..i used generic 32700 6ah cells and initially they were not that well balanced but i used a bms just for the balancing part for few years & now i got an active cell balancer on the pack.. even under load the active bms maintains cell voltage by pumping energy to the weaker cell bank from other cells. according to the bis registration number on the cells (kind of like ul certificate for india) the cells are made by "shensen mottcell new energy co" , although on the cells there is only manufacturing date & the bis number to make it legal for sale..it could be from a different manufacturer and someone stole the registration number as they have similar 32650 & 32700 cells listed. I bought 16 of them for around 45$ from a electronics part shop. They are most happy at 1c discharge. 2c is still acceptable but the cells will start to get warm & settle at 40c in a 32c ambient..3c makes them go above the recommended max cell surface temperature. My ups is only 600w to at max i have could only load to 2.7c..in normal operation it has never seen more than 1.2c continuous.

@iotapi322 8 месяцев назад

Does the charge controller know how to deal with those different chemical batteries?

@madelectronengineering 8 месяцев назад

No it doesn't, but between lead acid and lifepo4 the usable voltage range is very close, so they're usually just drop in replacements.

@haydenc2742 8 месяцев назад

They have a BMS built into them...which is really cool

@MadMaxEdm 8 месяцев назад

@@haydenc2742 I think i read somewhere the bms doesn't work when in series. Can't really tell from the video, but how are the batteries wired?

@roor20 6 месяцев назад

@@MadMaxEdmthe bms works for each batteries internal cells, but, when you put the batteries in series the batteries come out of balance. It’s not an ideal scenario.

@KuntalGhosh 5 месяцев назад

@@haydenc2742the bms is the actual problem. The cheap bms does not allow enough current, no active cell balancing and worst of all they cut off the cell at 14.4v or 10v . The ups freaks out if the battery goes missing while charging or discharging. Absolutely cannot use any bms when the ups is handling all the voltage curves and cut off points. Active cell balancer is all you need and you can fit lot more cells in that rack space. The 12ah 25.6v pack i made takes similar space of two 9ah/7ah 12v standard ups battery but runs close to the capacity of 27ah leadacid. Because leadacid looses run time with increased load. 9ah battery will only measure 4.5ah if you discharge it for 60mins at constant load. Lifepo4 doesn't have any such problem so at higher load levels the ups will run lot longer.

@andyburns 8 месяцев назад

With the UPS being vertical, wouldn't some of those batteries have been upside-down? Being upright or on their sides is OK, but upside-down is not OK ...

@ChuckMorton 5 дней назад

its AGM batteries vs traditional liquid acid.

@Bob_Adkins 10 дней назад

Nope. Because usable range of lead-acid batteries is about 12v-13.8v, older UPS will shut down when the batteries drain to 12v or slightly under. S4 LiFeP04 usable range is about 11.0-12.8v, so your UPS will shut down before half the LiFeP04 capacity is used. Charging current is also a little high. They should charge from about 13-13.5v, but your UPS charges them at 14.4v, which will shorten the life. They could even stay charging continuously!

@Kantuski 6 месяцев назад

Thanks for the video, as you can see below, there are many opinions regarding charge/discharge issues between the two different chemistries. I would suggest that you charge each new battery with a Lithium charger, to get to full capacity prior to the install. That should give the BMS a fighting chance.

@ghosthk 6 месяцев назад

Missing BMS for connecting LiFePO4 in-series, I won't suggest such simple replacement..

@ChuckMorton 5 дней назад

Is there a BMS you suggest for the 48v range? I am looking at replacing my lead acids and know that it needs a BMS for the different chargingrates ect.

@bentheguru4986 7 месяцев назад

Don't want to be rude but you screwed up when you decided to mount the UPS vertically. Ontheir sides or flat only. SLA batteries should not be inverted. Otherwise, yes, APC's chew batteries like no tomorrow. Other tips, kill power, take lid off top, blow out propperly with compressed air. Blower did nothing. Need to compress the cable lugs with pliars, often too loose, yours are for sure. Self Test tests with your installed load to test if the UPS can support YOUR load. No, it does not have an internal 500W load. Now, you will need to do homework on the differences in Lithium and Lead for charging, not to mention, if the new batteries are true 4S or cheap, 3S turds.

@ericklein5097 5 месяцев назад

They aren’t 3S. 3S 12V is a cobalt chemistry not lithium iron. The cobalts are far from what I’d call turds. Better energy density, typically have a better C rating and so much more. Just not the right voltage for a drop in replacement as 3 is too low and 4 is too high (3.6V or 3.7V nominal. That’s why 3.2V LFP is ideal

@bentheguru4986 5 месяцев назад

@@ericklein5097 3S in Lithium is LiPo, not iron.

@heart4Pahoa 6 месяцев назад

Yeah, like so many others noted in the comments, the float charge differences make the LFP battery change a no-go. You would need to buy something with an LFP charger programed into it like what Eaton has on their LFP UPS. Your best bet it to buy AGM replacements over the standard SLA batteries in these old APC UPS units.