Van's RV-8 Build. Ep 104. Laser-Cut Parts and Financial Crisis Update Nov. '23

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Here's a look at the current state of the LCP debacle in my part of the building world. I have included links below to relevant info.
Thanks for stopping by!
This video was recorded on 11/1/2023.
Engineering Assessment and Classification Report www.vansaircraft.com/engineer...
A Message From Dick VanGrunsven • Van's Aircraft Busines...
BuildingThe10's take on the Van's financial crisis • Building the RV10 - Vi...
If you'd like to hear my first take on the _laser cut parts debacle of 2023_, click here: • Van's RV-8 Build. Ep 0...
If you haven't seen my comprehensive tools video, check it out here!: • Van's RV-8 Build. Ep 0...
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#vansaircraft #homebuiltaircraft #cleavelandaircrafttools #aircraftspruce

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31 окт 2023

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Комментарии : 51

@MilitaryAIWorks100 6 месяцев назад

Sorry to hear about your situation currently. My -8 wing kit is still mostly on the shelves so I’m just in need of replacement parts so that I can get back to work. Feel for all of you who have to tear apart your empennage. Hang in there. We’ll get through this eventually.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Yep.... It's all gonna work out. Tearing down the emp is another learning opportunity, albeit a demotivating one. :)

@elkskiutah8204 6 месяцев назад

It will be interesting at how many builders will decide to start with fresh tail kits rather than drilling out and rebuilding.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Check out episode 105. The news out of the FAA will impact builders’ decisions on this issue.

@Karl427 6 месяцев назад

At least the backyard is looking good 😎

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

It's coming along!

@bertschb 6 месяцев назад

Really sorry you have to disassemble something you worked so hard to put together. I've got almost 100 laser cut parts in my -14A wing kit. Fortunately they are all still in the crate. I hope you get back some of your enthusiasm moving forward. Good luck!

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

100 parts!! Holy crap. I’ve got it easy. At least I’ll have something to keep my hands busy while they get it all sorted out.

@thierrybourges1228 4 месяца назад

I can understand your disappointment, to say the least, and I sincerely do feel sorry for you.

@JK-rv9tp 6 месяцев назад

First thing I thought when hearing of the laser cut holes is, could parts be rescued prior to dimpling by increasing the hole diameter by a couple thousandths with, say, a .130" reamer for a #30 hole, to clean up the heat damaged bore. The rivet should have no problem filling that slight enlargement. Perhaps the heat affected zone was too large. This reminds me of a fiasco on the Canadair Regional Jet, where the supplier making the titanium anti-ice distribution tubes in the wing leading edges switched to Electro Discharge Machining (burning the hole with an arc) to make the piccolo tube holes. The rough burnt bore promoted cracking and the paper thin titanium sheet formed/welded tubes would break up into large fragments, leaving the wing outboard without anti ice protection until the bleed leak system detected the problem. How no airplanes crashed before the problem was discovered is a miracle. When drilling out flush 1/8 rivets, suggest starting with a #40 bit to get started in the center dimple, then switching to the full size.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Some interesting new developments from the FAA re: laser cut parts. I’ll need to do another update and re-evaluate my plan to disassemble the empennage.

@brianseager6388 6 месяцев назад

you can get a repair rivet or o/s rivet can not remember the part no but it is a nas no then you remove the heat affected zone easily you need to remove about 8 thou from each side of the hole then hand deburr the hole

@JK-rv9tp 6 месяцев назад

.016" inc in dia is getting to be a lot I can see how a special OS rivet would be needed.@@brianseager6388

@jvtaylor3 6 месяцев назад

We've gone from "leave a tiny bur on a hole and the airplane will fall out of the sky" to "cracks are ok!" I don't know how to proceed at this point. I feel like Vans sent out the feeler to see how many parts they need to re-produce and that number came back way higher than they realized. I think it is not a shock that the financial crisis video came out shortly after this form went live. I really want to continue my RV-8 build, but it's getting harder and harder to continue with Vans. I'm starting to look into alternatives at this point.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Yeah. If you look at the details of their current crisis, the LCP fiasco was that last pile on the heap of problems. The larger problem is losses on QB kits. LCP is the rotten cherry on top. Vans is the market leader in a thriving market. They will reorganize and rebound from the current mess, albiet with new leadership and very likely new ownership. This is a company that deep-pocketed investors would love to own.

@robertgilbert9167 6 месяцев назад

Yeah, it's interesting how financial problems can magically affect the laws of physics ... 😱 ...

@chantereaudominique8855 6 месяцев назад

I had to disassemble a whole empennage , horizontal and vertical . That’s painful and time consuming , but it’s doable. Keep your motivation . I have just paid for an order deposit , one day before the Vans bad news announcement, and I am confident.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Thanks Dominique. I'm sure the key to dissassembly without damaging parts is to remain patient with the process and have a large supply of undersized drill bits... What kit did you order?

@chantereaudominique8855 6 месяцев назад

@@thathippiepilot I ordered the third RV8 kit

@Blxz 5 месяцев назад

Might want to check out the latest video from Vans. Chapter 11 filing. Not looking pretty.

@thathippiepilot 5 месяцев назад

This is a very positive thing.

@Blxz 5 месяцев назад

@@thathippiepilot I hope so.

@pwffstube 5 месяцев назад

lycoming is the largest creditor at 500k. this is protection from customers who want parts replaced or refunds. whats real sad is everyone hates the "evil greedy corporation" of lore, yet when a clearly vile example of incompetence and greed hits them right in the face they defend the corp because they like the product?

@1hornet1 6 месяцев назад

Man, what a bummer about the work situation. We are facing some moronic issues at my job that are going to last up to a year they say. Normally I work 7/12's for 3 months straight this time of the year and pay for my plane stuff and vacations. Instead, I've been playing a lot of call of duty. lol Laser cut parts, I have about 35 pieces that I've decided that I will absolutely not use. I inspected all of my parts 3 times in the sunlight trying to make the least impact on Van's as I could. I was completely ready to start riveting my Hstab together when I got my email in July and have not worked on it since. My rear spars for the Hstab were my biggest concert since it is completely assembled. If I had to scrap those, I was just going to order a whole new Hstab assembly because I am not trying to match drill new parts with dimpled skins. And that would be the limit of what I am willing to spend out of pocket to keep the dream alive. So now I just need to ween myself off of call of duty and get back at it since I finally know where I stand and can build everything I have but the rudder, flaps and some wing ribs crap. Good luck brother...

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Yeah. It's a lot for sure. I think the only two wing ribs are the inboard rib on each wing.... Re: match drilling parts to dimpled skins; I'm not too worried about it. These current kits are well aligned. Most of the match drilling is just multi-piece reaming. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any instances of true match drilling I'll need to do on affected parts... Stay tuned for the video when loudly curse a part that I have to match drill with a dimpled skin. LOL

@TFlight77 6 месяцев назад

Sorry to hear you have to take it all apart. I’ve got a spare rudder tip rib if it helps.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

I’ll race ya! 😂

@TFlight77 6 месяцев назад

@@thathippiepilot 😂

@mikebeuselinck6138 6 месяцев назад

Same boat with RV-8 empennage. Delivered May 2022, assembled May 2023, and just two months later got the LCP email. Talk about bad timing!! Honestly don’t know if I want to drill out all of those rivets with risk of creating more problems, and what if empennage needs repairs later? Seems like a “one shot deal” over the life of the emp. Seriously considering building an entirely new emp from scratch, or start on an RV-12is to get flying sooner and return back to RV-8 project later.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

I had considered rebuilding from scratch. No doubt that the craftsmanship would be much better than my rookie attempt. But, I'm going to follow through with the diss/reassembly and see what I learn in that process. A completely new emp will always remain as an option for the future.... I guess we've got some time to kill drilling out rivets while waiting on Vans anyways... Happy building to you!

@samlittle9486 6 месяцев назад

RV 10 builder here, I too am effected by the lazer cut parts in my tail and wing kit. My tail kit is mostly completed, the wing kit is just sitting there waiting on replacement parts. I'm not looking forward to having to disassemble each piece. What part of Texas are you from? I'm in the Tyler area.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Hey Sam. I’m a few hours south of you in Conroe. But you still might be able to hear me cursing when pulled rivets start spinning as I try to drill them out. 😂

@G_Money72 6 месяцев назад

I think you are going to surprise yourself how quick disassembly goes. As an airplane builder “SUCK” as a content creator “GOLD”. I am more worried about your lead time on the fuse kit! If it’s 18 months!! 😮 maybe FB market place for a deal.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Thanks, G. I’m sure I’ll get into a groove once disassembly begins. I’m not too worried about lead times on subsequent kits. These strikes in the film & television industry have thrown my finances into disarray. It will take a long time to get back to the point I will be able to order more kits.

@G_Money72 6 месяцев назад

@@thathippiepilot if you had any idea how much I feel that pain! The last 5 years have been a mess. I literally just started flying again last Month. New hangar comes on the 1st of December then to unpack a 10x30 storage container two states away Full of tools and airplane parts. Take care!

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Congrats on the turnaround! I'm excited for you!

@andrewerickson6089 6 месяцев назад

Hey Man, I've heard alot about cracks on the edges of the dimpled holes, do you guys pin coin the holes prior to dimpling?

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

I’m sorry. I’m unfamiliar with the term “pin coin”, and Google didn’t have any results. Are you familiar with the laser cut parts situation and the cause of cracked dimples?

@andrewerickson6089 6 месяцев назад

I've been seeing videos on the cracking, are they saying the cracking is caused by the laser cutting? I was a sheet metal mechanic at McDonnell Douglas in the 90s, most rivet holes are drilled & filled, but tolerance holes or holes that were dimpled required "pin coining". This is a process that cold-forges the I/D of the hole, the material flows, this reduces stress risers. The hole is first drilled slightly undersize, then a lubricated coining pin is forced thru the hole with a rivet gun, it is backed with a bucking bar with a hole in it. The pin is slightly tapered with wavy sides to allow for the lube. What's the material and condition? Do the parts arrive cracked or do they crack as you're working them? Is your shop freezing cold? Are the laser cut edges burnished?

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

I see. I explain the problem more directly in episode 84. In a nutshell, some vendors deviated from the prescribed cut path creating a hit spot and jagged notch in some of the rivets holes. Not all have been affected equally. I had some parts that had small irregularities, but my kit requires final-size drilling which cleaned up those holes. And, I haven’t had any cracked dimples. Other builders have been less fortunate. Some of the kits are received already with final-sized holes, and carefully filing the holes proved an ineffective solution in many cases. The cracks don’t occur until after dimpling AND riveting. Vans has published detailed information on the problem and the subsequent test results. You can find it under Builder Support on their website.

@andrewerickson6089 6 месяцев назад

So they expect some builders to dimple and rivet laser-cut holes?

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

@@andrewerickson6089 there’s nothing wrong with laser cut holes when the correct cut path is followed.

@chadcoady9025 6 месяцев назад

I think one dumb move that Vans is making is they are going back to punched parts, but they're going to send out the inventory laser cut parts that pass QC control before going back to punched parts. Who is going to want to have questionable parts for their new kit?

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

They’re not sending out anymore laser cut parts. They’ve all been removed from inventory.

@chadcoady9025 6 месяцев назад

@@thathippiepilot That's a relief. I read somewhere that the green tag laser parts will go back to punched once the inventory is used up. May have been an old press release. My RV-8 that we built was manufactured BEFORE they laser cut anything, so it doesn't affect me, but I was looking into an RV-10 kit. Obviously now I'm going to wait it out unless I find a kit someone else started that was manufactured BEFORE the laser cut outsourcing.

@thathippiepilot 6 месяцев назад

Good comment, btw. It caused me to go back and review the info releases from Van’s. This is from the Aug 12 update: “Laser-cut parts have been removed from our warehouse inventory and production of CNC-punched parts has been underway for several weeks to rebuild the removed inventory.”

@chadcoady9025 6 месяцев назад

@@thathippiepilot Awesome! Good to know! Now I just have to decide if I'm willing to wait the extra lead time on an RV-10 order since there probably won't be any canceled orders with Vans not giving refunds at the moment. Thanks for the info!