VATSIM updates some important rules everyone should know! 

Don't be. For first I flew VFR around schipol intl./ Amsterdam, took off 50ish miles north from an airfield, even with little navmap and navigraph ended up violating controlled airspace, had a minor disagreement with the controller then acknowledged my fault (tho he was acting stuck-up). Asked for vectors away from controlled airspace, stayed out of controlled airspaces, flew circles, asked vectors for navaids just to get the hang of the whole feeling. All in all at the end he changed his tone helped me down in IMC conditions while I had a pan-pan situation, accidentally activated auto throttle which on the custom third party aircraft made the throttle stuck.

You won’t be so nervous if you study and learn about the ATC procedures for the place you’ll be flying in. Make sure you 100% know the procedures for each phase of flight, preflight clearance, pushback and taxi, departure, cruise, approach, landing, etc. You also need to make sure you know how to operate your plane. Don’t get on the network if you don’t know what you’re doing is my point.

If you're already familiar with everything and just lack confidence to talk to controllers, I recommend just picking a route that takes you through a controlled center while in cruise. Communication there is pretty much reduced to a few sentences and there's little to screw up. While listening on those you can even pick up on some procedures that would otherwise be taken on by controllers at the airports themselves thanks to Vatsim's top down hierarchy. It's also a good way to spot controllers that are a little more lenient with beginners. *cough* Don't forget to append something like "New pilot" as a remark on your flight plan so controllers know to take it a little slow with you.

As a controller and mentor for VATUK I'm actually disappointed you feel this way. If you've come across controllers during your time who have been rude or abrupt with you, I can only apologise. Please don't feel scared or petrified of making a mistake, because we understand new pilots are prone to this and controllers should dedicate additional time. Also, remember, pilots IRL also make mistakes.

take IVAO as a training environment for vatsim

true but in oceania in particular irl the friendly hey or nice landing or whatever is pretty common, even at large airports (then again we are a chill af region) just seems a little overbearing to imply you cant even congratulate someone after a difficult landing in uncontrolled airspace.

They could implement a mandatory warning first, just saying

@@Rocker-1234 If it's uncontrolled another pilot would have to contact a supervisor for there to be a problem. Very unlikely.

My 2ct: You will never be disciplined for a friendly hand over - or 'pat on the shoulder' - neither as ATC, nor as pilot. We are all humans, after all. This is all about lengthy conversations and using ATC frequencies as a TeamSpeak substitute for group meetings... - and trolling, of course 🙄

OP hazard? Lmao its a sim not the real world…..they are way to overboard. I would NEVER use vatsim because they are “n**s” with that stuff. Might as well fly a real plane if you want to be treated like a criminal its a game. (Also the N word is not the derogatory word for black folks its the other N word for Germans circa 1930s)

Might be due to the costs

I guess you haven’t read ICAO Doc 9432. IRL you are not allowed to even say hello or bye before and/or after a transmission.

In real life the radio frequency is only allowed for traffic safety messages, so it is the same. I highly doubt they will kick you out for saying "Hi" to someone, but when people have overdone it can be a bit annoying.

Exactly my thoughts. Heck the could even open 123.45, 122.9, and 121.5 for standard convos and gaurd so that it is more authentic. I chatted with my coworkers over Boston IRL and ATC actually preferred it so they didn't have to space us.

That's illegal. It's just tolerated as long as people don't create safety issues. They've actually been cracking down on the guard violators by using DF and finding them from what I've heard.

May I ask. Do you have charts and access to AIRAC updates? If not I highly suggest you get these. It will help you immensely as with the updated airac will match with the charts you have. This will help you with taxi/SID and STARS. And maybe try text comms at first. Get an idea of what’s being asked and no issue of getting any read backs wrong as you can match what the controller has wrote (unless you don’t understand then ask for clarity). If you have any questions feel free to ask. Be happy to help you enjoy my passion for aviation.

@@stepheno21 Unfortunately I do not. I'm searching it up as I type this out but if you have any suggestions or recommendations I'm all ear. Thank you for all the advice, I greatly appreciate it!!

I’m glad you had a great experience and a patient and helpful controller. Don’t feel like these guys bombarding you with questions should be cause for anxiety or intimidation. Feel free to get your reps in and ask all the questions you want. Drop a comment on my channel if you like and I’d be glad to help any time you have a question. It’s a very fun hobby once you get in there and experience some success.

@@ruffleoutgamer7164 I am very sorry I did reply back somehow it hasn’t appeared. Have a look a Navigraph which does both FMC data and charts. Can be used with a PC or on a tablet. Highly recommended.

Talking for myself as a controller on the network bur probably it is the same for all controllers. If we see you are trying your best and something doesn't work out we wont be mad and are more then likely to help you. But if you come in all over the place and just do something it annoys us. So if you are stuck don't mind asking and keep on learning ;)

I completely Agree!

@@gregoryl.4872 in Europe in p3d vat sim is this serious so this change is nothing

But not everyone is a real pilot, not everyone knows the exact way of communicating.

Well, @@VeniVidiAjax , then it seems like an excellent opportunity to learn!😉

@@VeniVidiAjax Learn first...

At the Atlanta ARTCC training staff emphasizes that efficiency comes from effectiveness. We try NOT to waste any frequency time, and will adapt to how proficient we perceive the pilots to be in ATC interactions… so we don’t waste any frequency time. It’s fine asking a the auctioneer controller to repeat, hopefully they will adjust their speech to you. If you feel a controller is not effective, leave us feedback!

That should be a basic thing in training. If you asked them to speak slower and they did not (multiple times) , feel free to complain to the appropriate VACC.

I get the feeling some people actually try a bit too hard to speak fast as they think it actually shows some kind of experience or even intelligence. Agree, annoying AF and just not necessary. I even hear it in real life comms though, and just think it’s so poor to blurt barely legible crap out when lives are at stake

This is so true. There seems to be this misunderstanding that the best VATSIM controllers speak fast, so incorrect. Some of them speak so fast that it’s incoherent.

Some ATC guys think they are Kennedy Steve and talking way to fast.

I know quite a few who fly the Airbus in a particular that perceive the 'Activate APPR Phase' button in the MCDU as meant to be manually activated when you're still on the STAR before the IF. The airbus then just reduces them to their VREF speed when they're like 40 nm from touchdown still. Happens a lot as well when I control.

I think the difference between now and then is that in the old days people found VATSIM after they had been simming for quite a long time. nowadays people jump on with near 0 hours of experience in any simulator let alone the aircraft they're flying.

@Lungho It's because society gives them a medal for trying, not having the required hours on any aircraft.

You're 100% correct. The whole crux of this video is just click-bait to get views. That or someone isn't very bright.

I agree I think this is going to separate the wheat from the chaff sort of speak. You’re going to find out who your real pilots are with these particular rules if they uphold these rules for everybody.

I appreciate that!

There is a real world freq for pilot conversation. Guard is for emergencies only. It's not that hard to private message someone .

What airport do u controll

@@zbvmn1525 Currently in Norway as S2

I think you are mistaken in thinking VATSIM 'demands' experience in an ATC controlled environment. In fact it provides that experience. The new rule statements may sound harsh at first, but they really only try to differ spruce from hay. There are numerous events all over the network for new members to get aquainted with the procedures, which - and what could be wrong with that - try to be as realistic as possible. Look, take me as an example: I have been a VATSIM member since 2004. My first flight on VATSIM was in 2020. In 2004 I was too afraid to actually join the network. Then I gave up flightsimming. Then came the announcement for MSFS2020 and in 2019 I bought xPlane - 'cause I couldn't wait... Then I joined the group around flightdeck2sim, and suddenly live ATC VATSIM flights seemed inevitable. I spent days lingering around my local international airport, and listening to the ATC procedures. And finally I jumped in. And it went OK. And after a time, people recognize me at my home airport. And now, whenever I fly in, in the middle of the night, someone would say "hey, welcome back..." or you will notice other things, by which you can tell they know you're at home here... (e.g. turning you in for a 3nm final out of nowhere... TYvm 😅) That's cool! Don't be afraid!!

There's beginner-friendly areas in VATSIM eg Edinburgh. Come at a time where there's service but not too much traffic. Indicate in the flight plan comments that you are inexperienced. That's how I do it. And it's great!

123.45, Fingers is used alot for in flight chats and formation.

​@@BubbaLouis-uo3ku The fact that people ignore the regs in real life doesn't make it correct. "Within the United States (including Alaska, Hawaii, and United States possessions) 123.45 MHz is authorized to be used only for non-government flight test operations, not air-to-air communications."

@@beater8687 122.75 is technically the only authorized for general aviation plane to plane use.

Bruh I disagree, I hear even real life air traffic controllers who joke around like Kennedy steve to many pilots, don’t get me wrong am not saying that we should therefore not be as serious, however I mean come on a laugh here and there doesn’t hurt.

It's no big deal for tower or a smaller approach sector, but a busy approach or center, you're going to want the freq clear as best as possible, because even so people are going to be stepping on each other a lot.

It's also illegal in real life, but tolerated since enforcement is difficult.

That is why I don’t use the platform these days and haven’t for a long time. Prefer to actually fly in real life if in the mood for accuracy and that sort of thing. To each their own however, as I can see how it can be enjoyable, despite the framework and operational limitations etc. As long as it’s treated as an extension of the Sim experience and not taken as 100% replica of real life, it’s all good.

I think that's a really good point that there needs to be a way for new pilots to learn. When I started, I looked for a tower controller on that didn't have much traffic (non-event) and signed on first asked if it was okay to fly given I was new and would need some pointers. He couldn't have been more helpful. I can't speak for other controllers, but I think the issue is new pilots are not using discretion when deciding where to fly.

I think it really depends on where you are. For example, I've found that JAX center can be really curt no matter how friendly and professional you are. For example I've straight up been told "No" when requesting a VFR taxi and takeoff out of a class delta. On the other hand, I've found BOS center to be incredibly friendly and helpful. I just completed the VFR section of their "Wings Over New England" learning series and now find that I'm fully comfortable operating VFR in just about any situation. Major confidence boost for sure. I fully intend to start on the IFR section in the next couple days. I like the concept of something like VatStar, but I've found that to be far too much out-of-sim work just to progress through it. I much prefer the "read on your own then fly" approach of the wings flights.

@@hochmaniac I agree I mean obviously if you’re new I wouldn’t suggest going to like LA if they have some kind of event or there is tower, clearance, ground, departure, arrival center all going lol like you’ll just get overwhelmed for sure try to find some kind of airport someplace that has one frequency like ground. I always felt like the hardest thing was learning the IFR clearance and saying it back correctly so that’s where I would try to go so i could to try to learn that.

I've wanted to try it for ages but I've been scared of exactly that

Just as a side note, there are 'newbie' events every once in a while to help starters learn to use vatsim. Maybe not enough, but they are there. Also, in my view, it should be common sense that if you are not experienced with the plane, you are flying or communicating on the network, don't go to busy places...

I really would like to emphasise that even Vatsim is for fun, a hobby, something done in our sparetime. it is NOT a professional training setting where you learn to master accurate phraseology and procedures. I can also assure you that I have flown in MSFS enough times to know that the plane would suddenly do something unexpected for no apparent reason. My first flight on Vatsim was in the MSFS 787-8 (yes, the vanilla one) doing an oceanic, without even knowing that I needed oceanic clearence or anything of the sort. The controller was very helpful and helped me to learn what was needed, but I could hear him sigh inside himself when I told him that my MSFS 787 couldn't even do a direct.

Thanks so much!

You receive far more leeway than in real life. These changes are largely to provide supervisors with more authority to deal with troublemakers. As long as you can do the basic things outlined and make an honest effort, you will be fine. The controllers deal with very new pilots constantly. If we didn't, we just wouldn't control anymore.

Theres a youtube video for that.

Yea i remeber in ground school that was the channel to hop on and talk to other pilots. The rest I agree with.

Do you mean a video how to install the VATSIM client? Or something else?

@@hochmaniac the client, setup, getting it ready on MSFS, etc.

@@matthewlerner4135 I agree

Well in all my time flying on vatsim if you're taking too long to do something usually the controller will call you and give you that last instruction again, at that point you can explain whatever issues you're having, or you can be proactive and message the controller privately and explain what's going on.

The key is "too long". It is all about patience, emphaty, and common sense. As a pilot I know that sometimes the ATC is handling more than a real ATC would, so I don't mind if they issue a hold, or vector me to some point, or make me wait on ground "too long" because they are dealing with others. All I am saying the ATC should do the same and show emphaty. I am not saying when they issue a hold at an unlisted fix I never do it or do it after 15 minutes. But i need to aviate first, then I will do what I am told (if it is reasonable), then I will readback. And for that, it is silly to send a mesage saying what is going on. Obviously I am trying to fly an A330 all by myself. ATC knows it.

It's not that serious. The issue is we have pilots who claim they are going to comply with and instruction and are figuring it out and then fly across your entire airspace without doing what they were instructed to do. If you communicate a difficulty and keep ATC on the loop, it will probably be fine. If you are concerned about setting up the FMC not quickly enough, don't worry. In real life both pilots actually have to review FMC changes before executing them, so it takes about the same amount of time in the sim actually.

They're not suppose to do it on guard irl either

Sounds good theoretically, but they have enough trouble just keeping one server staffed.

@@bwc1976 Why do you think they have trouble keeping one staffed? Lack of ability to police the network....

Sometimes we just gotta exclude the group that doesn't want to be included. If you want to fly with others and make mistakes just go to MSFS multiplayer or POSCON or something. If you want to fly realistic then come to Vatsim. Not allways everyone has to be included in my opinion ;) And accept this there will probably be trouble with staffing, ATC and Supervisor wise

@@Action942Jackson lack of ability to police the network leads to being understaffed? There just aren't enough controllers and pilots to keep a large number of airports and airspaces populated the whole time. A typical evening in Germany has like 15 ATC positions online with maybe 50 aircraft flying at the same time. Split that into 2 servers? No. I'd rather have one incompetent guy every night than only half the people.

Staffing is lacking as it is for ATC on one server/network, if we add another it would be better to fly offline

I got you. I'll list some stuff when I get back to my pc

Depends on in which country you do your flying. If you go to the offical vatsim page you will find links to regions and from there links to different vatsim organisations for different countries. They then usually provide links to charts and very often these are the charts released by the aviation authorities in the respective country.

Hey, chartfox is a free aviation charts plattform.

@@Aceuchiha. Thanks, I'll make sure to check it out👍🏼

@@guitarheaven1747 I haven't used Chart Fox, but I saw it mentioned in another video. Looks like you use your existing Vatsim account to log in and is pretty accurate.

I agree that I'm not sure what, if anything, will really change. But the wording of the rules, especially voice comms, bothers me.

Everything is ultimately about how disruptive it is and what the supervisor thinks is okay. I've never heard of a controller getting mad over a "hello". It's those that chat on a busy frequency that this rule exists for. It's a bigger waste of time to call a supervisor than just tolerate it, so myself and most controllers I know are pretty lenient.

Controllers should have some sort of "squawk 7700" button, that would direct a superviser to that area and listen in on what is going on.

I get the intent, but they need a better way to convey how critical it is to keep frequency clear. I'd argue there's a bigger issue of actually having consequences for breaking aforementioned rules, but that's another video for another day.

@@hochmaniac This is going to make the busy airspaces (for expample LA / Boston ) from having the interactions and non critical talk down. That and the read back part, gives hope for the center guys working top down

One might argue that formation communication would fall under operational comms

@@lyaneris I agree with you 110% but by wording if it becomes a friendly conversation, then what?

@@ArchNDA Then you make sure the frequency is not used and there is noone who might get annyoed and reports you. There needs to be a wallop anyways, it's mostly for controllers/pilots and supervisors to have a better frame of reference

Yes. That I can agree on, because even if you don't know the correct phrases to use, then just say what the heck you are doing.

Good comments all around, I enjoyed reading your opinion on this. I think I agree with your points.

"Hi" and similar, even small conversations are not going to be a problem. A controller or fellow pilot won't call a supervisor on you for that. I'd like to be able to use 212.5 like in real life. I think it's because it would have to be monitored constantly, that they forbid it. Also, until afv it wasn't as easy to listen to a second frequency as atc

What VA are you in?

@@wurzzzz Mid-Continent

Probably because it's weird to say hi to someone you've never met...

yeah taht shouldnt be a thing, if atc has done such a bad job that you need YOUR plane to tell you how to avoid another plane instead of atc looking at their radar, they shouldnt expect the pilot to give them a call if they cant be bothered seperating them and keeping track of everyone

@@LoneWolf-se1nc exactly.

Responding to RAs are explicitly allowed by the CoC. Read the rules.

Sure but these are 0.001% of all transmissions in real life. You get controllers and pilots on VATSIM who want to be cool and be the next Boston John or whatever and all imitate it. So the number of times you hear this kind of nonsense is WAY higher. It can get very annoying quickly (and isn't funny or cool).

I think as long as you select real world weather and take what you get from the sim no one can fault you. Even Active Sky isn't a perfect simulation of the weather at times. The main problem is radar controllers were seeing two aircraft with the same indicated speeds traveling at 50+ knots different ground speed. This causes huge problems for separating traffic in the enroute environment where this kind of difference can't exist.

That one's the one I worry about, it can be tricky if you want weather for a VFR flight, now you have to match the wind, temperature, and pressure, as they change, without pausing, at all altitudes...

Technically, the rules say you cannot use voice comms for anything that isn't operational. Will you get walloped for doing it? Probably not. But it's a poorly worded rule, if you ask me

@@hochmaniac Yes. I think they should have added "excessive". or "inappropriate", because eventually it will be up to someone on the network to report it or not.

Its advertised as a virtual simulation that mimicks real world operations, not a game. A ton of real world pilots have used it as a stepping stone to better enhance their real world training. Why not just join a multiplayer lobby instead if using real world procedures is too much?

@@treyh89 I understand your point. At the same time how many real world student pilots screw up headings, holds, read back, etc. I know an instructor who when she first became a pilot violated class B airspace. How many times do you think controllers told her where to go abd how to get there? She said she finally realized she screwed up right when she looked down and saw the terminal about 1500 feet below her. BTW she was in a 172. Sadly, she was killed in a crash with a student pilot about 8 years ago while practicing stall recovery. My point is we are not all real world pilots. We all have a love for aeronotics and we all want to have fun. So maybe we should lighten up a bit when people screw up.

@@treyh89 it's advertised as both a sim AND a game. It has a lot of real world simulation aspects, but also officially released fictitious aircraft like the hypersonic jet from Maverick and the ship from the Halo games. But to the point of Vatsim, the comments seem pretty divided. There's a lot of people that have been turned off from trying to gain additional realism (myself included) due to what seems like an elitist attitude when it comes to using it. You can't use it unless you know everything, but you can't learn if you can't use it. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground for a casual simmer looking to just have fun in open multiplayer.

@@Nareimooncatt I agree that Flight Sim is a game/simulation. I think the issue is that Vatsim has historically been a very structured/realistic(as can be) environment. For those that have been apart of the network for awhile have seen a degradation of quality with the new influx of connections. With the release of Microsoft Flight Sim more and more people are joining the network without having a baseline of aeronautical knowledge. I’m all for the network being used as a learning environment, but some ground rules have to be set. Pilots don’t learn how to fly by loading up in a 747 in LA for their first flight. Even in the real world pilots don’t pattern work at your major Class B airports (LAX, NYC, MIA, etc). In response to the comment above, yes pilots screw up all the time while in training. That’s why we train constantly. The difference is when they screw up in training, especially in Class B airspace, they can still get a number. A pilots status as “Student” doesn’t give them a free pass. Someone is still held responsible(typically the instructor). Now I do hope Vatsim can somehow setup an environment that allows new pilots to practice at Class C or D airports for instance without that “disconnect” penalty. I don’t blame the newer pilots because they don’t know what they don’t know. A lot of them join after watching streamers who may teach bad habits, and they want to join in on the fun. Also it’s not fair that ATC are held to such high standards and rules but the pilots basically have free reign. All the ATC in the network are people enjoying the hobby. If the pilots continue to get away with breaking rules and doing what they want, then we may see a downward trend of active ATC. Just my 2 cents. I joined in 08 and it greatly assisted me in my training. I hope it’s able to offer others the same. Remember though that we don’t have to log into Vatsim. We choose too. There’s plenty of multiplayer lobby’s that aren’t as “strict”.

@@treyh89 I think a large part of the problem is these are people that enjoyed the open communication and craziness of FSX and want something like that for fs2020. For whatever reason, there is no open multiplayer in the sim. You have to use external programs to do that, and it sounds like Vatsim is the only one that does so reliably. Other programs are closed off, so you can't necessarily talk to those you are seeing in the game.

I don't think that will work for everyone. I believe is the words of good old John Dewey, "learning by doing". In many of these cases there is only one way to learn these ways and that is to do it and then take the mistakes (because mistakes will happen) as learning opportunities. But if the ATC's and other pilots don't see that as well and respect it, then it will never become a good experience. I have heard a good amount of real life ATC chatter, where pilots mix up frequencies, have to get things repeated several times, etc.

Bruh so what if your flying an old sim such as Fsx steam edition and the plane you fly can only come with a basic FMC, then how you suppose to follow that? Now I know what your gonna say “just save up for a payware plane” and that’s easier said then done. Am currently unemployed for various reasons which I won’t go into, and my computer hardware isn’t sufficient enough to be able to handle some of the payware planes. Oh and not to mention FSX extremely out of date AIRARC.

@@united1super544 this is no big deal. Writte in the remark Basic-Rnav and use as equipment code that you only can use vor ndb and can use an ils (you find this codes in Wikipedia). Then you get handled like a dc-6 or dc-3 or an old 737-200. You must then only say to any new radar controller you get send to "Callsign over Waypoint xxx FL XXX basic rnav" so the controller knows you have only basic rnav equipment and need for safety reason becaus insufficient equipment radar vectors for arrival and departure