One of the reason to put motor outside of the wheel is to reduce the unsprung mass which affects the motorbike handling significantly. None a word on how heavy the hollow motor is in this bike, but even if they use compisites it still could be 15kg+. Plus you'll need to have a good seal to protect that hollow motor huge bearing from getting dirt and water inside because that bearing itself will cost $$$$ to replace. Looks cool though.
This; those bearings will suck in every respect and honestly its bs to say this is function over form. Cost, weight, rigidity... none of it really adds up.
For future videos in this format, please ask if they use NACS for charging. Potential customers need to know if the vehicle is relevant, and manufacturers need the guidance if they've made a mistake.
All batteries under development that are projected to have more capacity per weight are also much more expensive. Since batteries use expensive and rare materials, it's not a given that their price will come down.
Ive run Zero DSR, SRF for 4 years, good machines and air cooled. This looks good but Im concerned unsprung weight / water ingress / debris ingress on peripheral motor drive seal. Agree bike 360 vision is a good idea, survival is ride defensively, the more eyes/brains the better.
@@ScottEdy UBCO is an utility bike with 2 motors, great idea, but the look is ridiculous for me.... The Verge is a real motorbike, not comparable to the UBCO
Back in the day I'd be lusting to put that on a frame table to inspect and adjust the frame dimensional accuracy head to tail. Now I'd just like to mount and go! Such an awesome machine.
Was an owner of a hub motor motorcycle, absolutely awful to ride as the weight in the wheel would come crashing up if you hit a bump, and this was after I tuned the damping rates of the suspension. From my experience, hub motors are a terrible idea for those who want a comfortable and safe ride. By the way, I own a 2022 Zero SR now and it's amazing.
Better test drive this one, on rough roads and sharp turns. Competition and dirt bikes do not reduce every gram of unsprung weight for no reason. Motors in the wheels are a massive amount of unsprung weight.
Well this is neither a competition nor a dirt bike, so I see no issue with added unsprung weight. The bike is heavy to begin with, so on track it's not going to be as nimble as a sport bike.
@@Tomzuki. Since YOuTube will not allow a link to an outside source that would explain to you the fundamentals of moto suspension here is what Chat GPT has to say on the matter. Low unsprung mass is crucial in motorcycles used on the street for several reasons: Improved Handling and Responsiveness: Unsprung mass refers to the weight of components not supported by the suspension system, such as wheels, tires, and part of the motorcycle's suspension. Reducing unsprung mass enhances the motorcycle's ability to respond quickly to changes in the road surface. This results in improved handling, better maneuverability, and increased responsiveness, especially during cornering and quick direction changes. Enhanced Suspension Performance: A lower unsprung mass allows the suspension system to react more efficiently to bumps, irregularities, and other road imperfections. The suspension can follow the contours of the road more accurately, providing a smoother and more controlled ride. This is particularly important for street motorcycles where comfort and stability are essential. Increased Traction: Lower unsprung mass contributes to better tire contact with the road surface. Improved traction is essential for safe street riding, especially during acceleration, braking, and cornering. With reduced unsprung mass, the tires can maintain better contact with the road, leading to enhanced grip and stability. Reduced Vibrations and Fatigue: Motorcycles with lower unsprung mass tend to experience fewer vibrations transmitted from the road to the rider. This not only enhances comfort but also reduces rider fatigue during long rides. The overall smoothness of the ride contributes to a more enjoyable and less tiring experience for street riders. Braking Performance: Low unsprung mass is beneficial for braking performance. The reduced weight in the unsprung components allows the braking system to work more effectively, resulting in quicker and more controlled stops. This is crucial for street motorcycles where sudden stops may be necessary in traffic or emergency situations. Fuel Efficiency: While the impact on fuel efficiency may be relatively small, reducing unsprung mass can contribute to overall energy efficiency. Lighter components require less energy to move, and this can result in slightly improved fuel economy. In summary, low unsprung mass in street motorcycles enhances handling, responsiveness, traction, and overall ride quality. These factors are vital for a positive riding experience, safety, and performance on the diverse road conditions encountered in everyday street riding.
The three high voltage Orange wires that are hanging out look cheap and not esthetically pleasing to the eye. Seems like they could have made an amazing cover for those. Boots getting rubbed against that and other things like someone wanting to chop them out for metal might be an issue.
TRON here we are at last.....! What a spanking gorgeous machine. My Last bike was a CB900 four. I thought I was riding a starship at the time. This is truly next level.
@@Cloxxki They have a video on their channel showing how the rear tire is removed. The tire comes off with the rim, the motor stays connected to the swingarm, the tire is replaced like any other rim
An electric kick stand that picks the bike up on a stand would be awesome. That's the part where many people think there stand is down or planted and they start letting the bike tilt and the stand folds back up.
Looks Great and congrats on this prototype! I do have questions though: #1. Parts and service. The age old questions that actually make something viable. #2. If that motor really has 200hp, that swingarm looks very under engineered. #3. Agree that the motor is in a great place for many reasons, but it's right in the water and grime! Not convinced it will hold up very long..
Wow, What an awesoome and forward thinking design.. Love it... Get someone to road test it in Scotland in the Outer Hebrides and or Shetland... and see if it survivs the winter... But loads of respect guys for suc a wow design!
I need one of these motorcycles, a Cybertruck, a 2nd generation roadster and a Tesla robot to clean and wax all these machines in my garage. … now where did I put my winning lottery ticket?
I want to know about the pack voltage, what type of motor is it using, Ac or Dc? Battery capacity in volts and amp hours, miles per kwh used, overall range that can be expected, this is all useful information to have when considering a bike.
I didn't even see that. 10-80% or 0-100? NACS, J1-AC or CCS? Lots of unanswered questions. Not sure if they edited those questions out for another video, or just bad journalism.
Want. Being able to have a turn camera on like the Tesla, greatly removing the need to do a head check so you can keep your vision forward, is a huge win. Unsure how comfy that seat will be after an hour or two in the saddle, but otherwise seems a winner. Less moving parts = happy owner.
How do they keep the thing cool? How do you do the temperature management for a high performance Lithium battery which gets parked in the hot sun on a 105 degree summer day? How does that work without active cooling with a heat pump? How does the inverter and motor survive? Sounds strange to me.
124 mph top speed kind of sucks though. I routinely go faster than that on my ZX-10R. Unless a cop is reading this. Then, I always obey the speed limit.
There are some amazing electric motorcycles already out there today. I got one of the first Zero SR/F bikes (140 lf-ft!!!) four years ago. Today Energica sells fantastic 2-wheeled EVs, and I know there are others. That wheel-motor looks cool, but it is all unsprung weight.
@@Miata822 well said. Right now I have ICE motorcycles (and a Motocompacto) but eventually I want an EV bike that's fun. Not sure when they are right for me, but I'm sure I'll have one some day soon
@@streddaz highways suck on motorcycles anyway. I do what I can to avoid them, always choose the old 2 lane over a superslab, unless I have no choice. It's not about getting from A-B it's about the ride.
I’m concerned that it is not water cooled. How do you keep the battery at the right temperature if you leave the bike sitting in the hot sun for a few hours?
Lovely design, I can't afford it any time soon, but I have an idea for the front, suspension why not try center hub staring? It already has a nice rear , give the next model a great front 🙏 please
Looks great ... BUT if fitted with solid state batteries available (Apparently) soon ... how much - lighter , feaster charging, and range increase ?????
The Best of the Best and People Don’t Even Know It 👀 This is A Masterpiece of Technology on Two Wheels, we all paid 45.000 for way less this technology needs to go into a car design 👀🙏🏾✊🏾👏🏾🧐🤔 Hub less wheel is the motor 👀 what 👀 My whole family is getting one and talk these guys into designing a car
For those wondering about handling characteristics, just look at the wheelbase of the bike and it will give you a good idea. This won't handle like a naked/sportbike, but like a cruiser. Regarding the 885 pounds-feet of torque the electric motor has, to give context, it is common for *fast* ICE bikes to have over 1200lb*ft of torque in first gear at the wheel.
I'm going to have to disagree with you that looking at the wheelbase tells you how it's going to handle. There are many other factors involved that determine how something handles.
@@JasonWW2000 I'm making the assumption that the designer is competent and they have optimized rake, trail and center of gravity. Even the Diavel has poor handing compared to all the sportbikes with ~6 inches less wheelbase; the giant 240 section rear of the Ducati doesn't do it's handling any favors either I suppose.
they should levetate the wheel around the hub with a maglev-like setup where the hub is suspended within a magnetic field. so you use rotating magnetic pulse to move it forward or backwards
I am planning on building a bike with pretty much the same concept in mind. Reduce the amount of moving parts, and keep the weight low. I have a 1979 Kawasaki that I am converting to EV, I will build the roughly 20kwh pack and it will fit where the engine and trans used to sit. As far as the motor, I am not 100% sure where that will go just yet, most likely a rear hub motor, but I want longevity and maybe a mid drive will be best, I'm not sure yet.
Same thing that ruins the Aptera. Performance enthusiasts have been reducing unsprung weight for a reason. There is reason that people pay huge amounts to have carbon fiber wheels and lite unsprung components. You would think that Monroe would mention this factor in Aptera and this bike. Can you imagine dragging an unsprung motor in a dirt bike were the handling is paramount?
Better weight management, simpler, more torque, lower voltage requirement & less magnetic flux. Far more effective application of technology. Only improvement I can think of is a quick-change battery system. Beautiful engineering!
like 3 years ago this was on presale for 25k eur, which was far too expensive for me. now basically the same bike is above 50k. nuts. great optics and hopefully great tech, though. wish them all the best.
How would you get that rear tire serviced though? Doesn’t look like anything just any bike shop would be be able to do.. is there a special tire machine you would need or special tools to actually do service? Tires don’t last forever so just curious to find out if their new design fits into current infrastructure
They have a video on their channel showing how the rear tire is removed. The tire comes off with the rim, the motor stays connected to the swingarm, the tire is replaced like on any other rim
Sadly all I can pay attention to is the audio clipping on Marko's voice. I know it's difficult in a loud conference space, but a bit more effort on guest vocals would be nice. Rob's levels seem to be perfect. Could just be limitations in the recording equipment they are using.
Imagine the first day you lay that down when parking or such. Every rider has done it. Make it stand up by itself and I'll be impressed. Electric kick stand to park the bike would be awesome.
Suppose there are more Aron Von Zippers out there than I thought. Haven't in almost 50 years of riding dropped a bike from forgetting to put the stand down while parking it or moving it around the garage. How smart would the system have to be to be able to reliably determine for every rider when they did or didn't want the stand to automatically deploy? Just unnecessary weight, complexity and cost along with another expensive item to repair when it breaks. Best!
@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 every rider in my riding group of about 46 people have thought they put the kick stand all the way down and when getting off the bike had the bike tip over. Sometimes more gently than other times. Getting some larger bikes on the center stand is much harder. I have a bigger bike and the center stand parking is very hard. I don’t mean automatically like it should know when to deploy, I mean automatically when you push a button it will deploy.
@@djemcee I am so sorry to hear that. Perhaps you younger folks have gotten too distracted as that is a very, very rare thing in my circle of older riders many of whom walk with canes yet still can get a touring bike on the center stand. Often issues getting the bike on a center stand can occur due to putting lower profile tires on the bike or from certain attempts at lowering it making it so the center stand is now too tall and you have to overcome a larger center of moment to get it over the top. Best!
Hubless rear wheel motor is brilliant for a road bike. Unsprung so not good for off road I guess. I wonder if the larger diameter of the motor would mean easier generation of torque?
Minimum capacity is 175mi or 90km for the civillized @ nominal speed of 80mph. That is from 90% charge to 25% charge. That is my baseline standard for an average bike. Long distance riders will be more demanding.
I’m backing Fuell Fllow, I was interested in this bike but capability: Value just isn’t there. Looks awesome, but likely will never show up in my garage.
Yea wayyy too much. I’m building one now and it already runs. I’m just 3d printing the fairings. I only spent 2k USD….. 45k they just want to make their initial investment back from all the R&D right away. They are Just thinking about the money, you can tell with his “LV” hat ..
Poor mentally. All startups needs this kind of investment. Specially with thiskind of innovation. Usually when they thrive the will make more affordable models. I'm rooting for all electric motorcycle startups that make it
So it's the same price as a full loaded Harley that requires oil changes $$, fuel $$, and other maintenance $$$.. I know which one will be cheaper in the long run!
That "traditional architecture" that he derides is called "mass centralization" and "low unsprung weight" by those who know and understand vehicle dynamics.
yeah i agree although no one is buying this type of bike for pure mechanical grip and manoeuvrability. I think it makes sense for this kind of bike as it will be very quiet and looks cool! also unsprung weight in terms of suspension performance is very related to the ratio between sprung and unsprung which then influences the ride frequencies. this bike will probably be around 300kg i imagine.
So we're just skipping charging? After the battery runs out after 130 miles, we just throw it away and get another with a fresh battery? Whats going on here?
2:20 No cooling at all? No inverter cooling, no motor cooling.....then I'm afraid it wouldn't hold up for me at work when I need to push +20kWh/100km for an urgent delivery/pickup.
how long can you put out 150 kW for without liquid cooling? also everyone keeps releasing electric naked bikes, when aerodynamics is super important. mystery to me
Heat rejection in competitive driving will be interesting. Heat and heat cycles matter a lot with tyres, and the motor is now the rim. Evolutions might have fans in the rear hubs spinning actively or passively to get rid of as much heat. There at least is a lot of surface area to the inside. Liquid to air cooled? A thin outer layer of silver (the real Ag) coating might assist.
The rear rim is carbon (even though the front wheel looks aluminum), likely because of heat. Also, adding a layer of more conductive metal doesn't help.
‘Nother over-the-top high end tech-laden and performance bijou for th’ others ! The first to put out a daily rider for “everyone else in da world” ( ~ 25 kW, 75 Nm, 250 km…ish) range with “normal” tech for under $5k will rule 2WheelWorld.
I'm thinking it'd be best to put a question mark at the end of, "The Future of Electric motorcycling." Seems to be tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than competitors without clear positive differentiation.
People said that about Teslas in the day and they are selling millions of cars. I think to each their own. Many bikes today don't appeal to me either, but they sell so :shrug:
The problem with the motor design, appart from the unsprung mass, is the reversed torque that is put on the swingarm without a torque arm. Thats going to rise the suspension while acceleration and vice versa while breaking at these torque levels. If that motor wants to put out 1200Nm of tourque while still beeing capable of around 1700 rpm it will probably run very unefficiently.
We're not going to talk about the unsprung weight of an in wheel motor? Also, if you're not head-checking when you change lanes and need your bike to show you something on the handlebars, you should probably not be on two wheels 😖
