Very Weird GLITCH...(VW Atlas STALLS? P060C...) 

Hi Ivan, greetings from the UK. I have a 2017 VW Tiguan diesel that experienced symptoms very like this last year, I was lucky the guy on the service desk asked how old the battery was, and when I informed him it was the original battery he said to go get the battery replaced, not cheap at 199 pounds, but had no more trouble over last 10 months.

I really dont work on cars. (Electrical Engineer) But your videos are always interesting. I enjoy your diagnostic methods. You have shown me a few things I was able to translate to diagnosing electronic circuits! Great video as always. I just wish you released it tomorrow morning so I could watch it with my coffee. I am too impatient to just wait to watch either.

Hey Ivan, my girl got a 2019 Chevy equinox with an auto stop. Some times it took few extra seconds to start the car back up on red light. Some times traction control, abs light, communication codes etc comes on after starting back up with auto start. Took it to the dealer said they found a bad ground, they tested everything apparently battery etc. week later bam same problem. I’m a heavy equipment mechanic, I load tested the battery all good. Found bunch communication codes. I ended up changing the battery because it was about 4years old. That took care of the problem. I recommend changing the battery it’s a high tech car. And those problems were were super intermittent. But a new battery took care of it.

What happened to the Thinktool ProS is a shame (no rollback available .. support virtually non-existent). 30+ years ago (circa 1991), I went to see Bills Gates speak at a venue in Houston. In his speech, he said, software, rather than hardware, will rule the world .. device/product performance AND product life cycle will be solely governed by the software publishers. We were bewildered at the time. It’s sad that an indeed true prophesy that was.

P060c has an ecm update for this fault. Also customer will complain about remote start not working, if they leave cruise control on.

If the vehicle is equipped with a secondary battery i would check the battery state of charge, ive worked on a few vehicles with auto start stop, and found out on some manufacturers they use the secondary battery to power most/all electronics, and whne the state of charge drops you will loose communication some of the modules. I would also check the pryo fuse and relay for the start stop system. I would also ask the customer is they has been jump started. Had that issue on a 2018 jeep cherokee. No communication between certain modules and after running for about 5 min systems began shutting down, the vehicle abs system had faults, ecm/tcm communication faults, would come out of park, no control of the headlights.

ATTENTION- if you have an atlas that stalls at parking lot speeds. Have the charcoal canister checked. It will rattle like a maracas. It is internally ruptured and the purge valve gets stuck. This is a very common problem on the atlas. There is a 10yr warranty extension on these

20:16 Story checks out - it's currently for sale at Ciocca VW. "Carfax 1 owner, Excellent Service History!" 😄

For Sale: 2018 VW Atlas SUV, white, 125,000 miles, dealer maintained. Runs great...most of the time...

Ivan, Appears that you have some lovely followers that watch your entire video within seconds of releasing. Long live PHAD!

I dealt with a lot of intermittents like that one. Being a City Fleet Auto Electrician the problem had to be fixed. Some I got lucky with, others took a long time. Like you, I did a LOT of test driving and in shop testing. One Chevy Cavalier was the only one I never found the problem. It was from a pool of cars. The people needed it and they continued to drive it till it went to salvage. Oh well. Good one Ivan. Intermittents can be a P.I.T.A.

Just to let you know - there's a class-action lawsuit against VW for random engine stalls. I'm not sure if the Atlas was part of the lawsuit.

I would put an eye on the charging system, I think there was a generator fault code, those symptoms are typical for a alternator starting to fail!

There is a bulletin that may apply for update programming for PO60C. But this is likely not causing the stall issue. I would be focusing on generator and wiring to battery. Also have seen people hit the ECU with a ratchet while replacing battery. You will see a burn mark on the ECU where it shorted. That can cause problems.

I'm with the others talking about the batteries and charging system. Instead of cleaning the throttle body, I would have been load testing the batteries.

I bought a used Lincoln MKC and drove it several weeks with no problems at all. The entire time the weather was cold. Then, during a hot spell, the engine started shutting off when in traffic. after a few minutes of panic, I realized it was some sort of automatic system. So I looked it up in the manual and lo and behold, there was an automatic start/stop feature. There is about six or seven parameters that have to be satisfied for the shut down feature to start working. Which explains why it did not do it during the cold weather. Luckily, there is a mode switch that turns this feature off. Unfortunately, you must push the button each time you start the car!🥺

Ivan, I know lots of Folks will chime in about using Brake Cleaner on Throttle body. I find it does a fine job removing crud from throat of the Body. But refrain from using it on the Butterfly and its edges. Some Butterflys have a protective coating that the Brake Cleaner will remove. That's why some people will say only use Throttle Body Cleaners which are less likely to remove the Protective Coating on the Butterfly.

Just delt with a similar issue with a gmc denali. Ecm had the same code description even . Truck would be running down the road and suddenly slam like it was dropping into 1st for a split sec . The dash lights would flash door locks cycle and keep going. Also noticed the alternator would stop charging just before this would happen . I replaced and reprogrammed the ECM... all good now ... also . I did catch that while graphing the pids would flat line even though my scanner ( tritan d10) would never notify me of loss coms .

Very right about dirty throttle bodies My outlander would just rev up and down 300-400rpm at idle and stall at almost every stoplight for months. No codes, a shop couldn't figure it out. Cleaned the throttle body and it fixed it. Such a great day lol

Internal failure, cracked solder joint detected. Please insert $3000.

At least someone will get a used Atlas with cleaned throttle body..

Ivan I can’t imagine the wave of “newer” vehicles that are about to go haywire. Especially after the chip shortage and supply chain issues. It will be a circus for sure.

Early in the video it indicated a broken and corroded wire the dealership repaired after which the stalling began to happen plus a bunch of communication codes. Surprised this wasn’t investigated by Ivan. Also, I thought throttle bodies should not be cleaned with harsh solvents due to the plating on the throttle plate. Not questioning Ivan’s approach just trying to learn.

When did you come to place and scan my VW? lol jokes aside I’m a mechanic as well and always look up to your diagnostic skills. I have a 2019 Tiguan 4cyl turbo with countless intermittent issues, rough idle, coolant issues, communication issues, goes through oil like crazy sometimes not all. dealer never wanted to touch it under warranty and now I’m stuck with diagnosing this PIA when it decides to happen. This video gave me some other things to think about. That auto shut off I programmed mine always off

While you were scrolling thru the numerous PID's, I noticed a couple interesting ones; Left and right headlamp temperatures, and PTO status. I guess the PTO one makes sense, because it sounded like a tractor while you were under the hood with it running. But "headlamp temperature"? No mas!! I do think the new owner will be looking you up eventually. And that you will fix it!

I learned a lot from watching Pine Hollow videos. 😀

Ivan, my Dad had a car where the transmission failed. The dealer replaced the transmission under warranty, my Dad traded it in on a new car two weeks later, and everyone lived happily ever after. What can we say? Thanks for Sharing!🙃😊

When I bought my 2019 Golf R, brand new, the second time I started it, the whole dash christmas-treed, none of my steering wheel controls worked, and nothing in the car worked right. I had to turn the car off, wait 30 second and start the car again for things to go back to normal. It never happened again after that. I suspect my car had been sitting on the lot for 6 months, and the battery went dead. I think they just charged it up quickly and sent it on it's way when they sold it to me, and since the battery was still weak, that second start drained it enough to make things REALLY unhappy. I consistently got "low voltage" warnings in my car for years after that, until I replaced the battery a year ago. The AGM batteries VW uses are more resilient, but also, VW seems to have a smaller voltage tolerance than most cars, and things get REALLY unhappy with low voltage. After replacing the battery with a new one (4 years into owning the car) there are no more low voltage codes in any modules, and there haven't been any weird glitches ever since. In my case, my battery was toast, and had been toast since I got the car new, but because it's an AGM, it still kept working well enough that you didn't get the typical signs of a weak battery, unless you were looking at codes, and were very picky about things (like lights dimming during cranking, which no longer happens with the new battery, even after a year, when it always happened from when I bought the car from new).

Hi Ivan, I would have started to check the previous repair of the "rear park pilot/parking aid sensors". Since the problem started just after this repair. I didn´t see you checked this. I don´t say it is due to this previous repair, but the problem started just after that repair. Coincident? Maybe. But would have been worth to checked it out. Thank you for all interesting videos and well explained content. Greatings from Sweden! /Martin

My friend had a business selling a product and one investor told him he had a big problem. He was like whats up? They said his product last to long. 😅 Planned obsolescence

Ivan, this Dx. is probably a mute point anyway. If you would have narrowed it down to a ECU, I don't think there is much more you could have done for her anyway ; you would need ODIS / factory VAG server access to program that ECU and remove / set component protection or cloning capabilities, which I'm not sure if you get involved with. Always enjoy your videos. Thank you.

I had to fight a lot of random intermitten codes like this on my sisters Terrain.. Turns out, it was just a loose battery post. That car has the ECM strapped to the top of the battery and it likes to bounce around.. Battery positive was completely loose. Tightening it fixed everything

My only experience with lane assist was in a rental car as it tried to force me back at a cyclist I was trying to pass. As I went to give them a wide margin of space I crossed the center line so it "assisted" me back at them. Stopped immediately to figure out how to deactivate it. I can only imagine how much I'd hate auto start/stop.

Try fixing or replacing the ignition key lock on the steering column on a 2015 VW Passot. Key would not rotate beyond the run position. The two screws that hold the ignition lock onto the column are break off type meaning you put them in and tighten them till the head breaks off leaving a smooth surface like a lag bolt. The parts and labor is around $800 to a $1000 if the dealer does it. Or about 4hrs in labor if you do it yourself (the first time, about an hour if you did it twice). The part cost from $150 and up, depending where you purchase it from, or free (no parts required) if you can repair the original lock.

Iven you are spot on I've noticed that as well they do seem to have a lot of planned up the lessons these days they're only made to last a certain amount of miles craziness

With all cars that have Stop/Start function, a poor battery can cause all kind of problems with computer communications. When the battery comes down to 75-80% of full effect, all kind of strange things can occure. And a replacement are not cheap, since they normally are special AGM types. A trade in would seldom happen here in Denmark, the cars are to expensive due to 180% car tax, and 25% VAT, we buy 1 and pay for 3. 😊😊😊

Thanks for another surprise video Ivan. Interesting to see your process with such an intermittent issue at low idle. Throttle body cleaning is a smart first move of course that I just learned from you. Always fun to learn from the master.

Grounding strap problem???? and Planned Obsolescence....gotta love VW and their timing

You didn’t do the “bum, bum, baaahm” music for the break clean 😂🤣

The auto start/stop & lane assist is most annoying! I turn them off as soon as I start my Honda. Another "feature" I don't care for is when I'm using the cruise control on the highway....there's a sensor that "sees" traffic ahead and when you get "too close" it retards the throttle.

I don't know how much the customer was willing to spend, but I feel this was a missed opportunity for a great case study. The vehicle showed no code until the issue arise, then tons of codes. Can help thinking that the Ivan I know would've put the CAN Bus, power and ground on a Pico scope while tapping the ECM and wiggle wires at least. Can't win them them all though, and I still appreciate your videos. I hope this one comes back.

I'm surprised you didn't check if she had the right battery in the car. When you buy a battery for a car with start stop there is a specific battery version needed. German cars computers act is when they need new batteries.

What does VCDS say? Generic scab tools will not give you proprietary faults codes. They may be of assistance here.

First thing that jumped out at me was the original issue started with corroded wires to a sensor. I'd be suspect of other corroded connections...

In Europe it is mandatory that engine start stop is activated any time you start the engine. You have to deactivate it manually every time you start the engine. In newer cars that also applies to all safety systems, like driver assist systems. On some Japanese cars it is even impossible to deactivate electronic stability control.

I have seen P060C set on VWs, sometimes with U0416 or U0415 when there isn’t an actual issue with the ECM. I don’t know why. I wouldn’t replace the ECM until you can verify the other DTCS first, I think P060C sets as a result of other faults for some reason

Sounds like a problem in the kernel, oh wait, that's a familiar blue screen that's on my mind. Who knows, maybe you are destined to be reunited with your new friend in the future. That would be interesting for sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a programmed failure installed on the software of control modules. And it wouldn't be the first time VW has pulled a stunt with the programming of their engine computers

I would be leaning toward powers and grounds. Grounds in particular.

Love you men you are doing great work everytime, you make diagnosing cars like story that need a key that lost until you find it in the end of diagnostic, and wwe feel happy to hear the cause

Woo hoo tuesday night PHAD!!

No closure for this episode. FeelsSadMan!

@ 13:50 -----> "....give it a couple taps...." I'd call that DENT TUNING 🤣🤣

Another great video. I did wanna ask you, I thought we were told never to open a throttle body because There are no gears inside to move them. But perhaps this is a different style. I'd be curious is that a right train of thought? (I guess what I was saying is I thought we weren't supposed to open them by hand And only use the' pedal to open them!! But I could be wrong I'm just a backyard mechanic.

I remember 09 rav4 set code for possible bad computer when 02 code set. After replacing o2 sensor and clearing codes all was fine. Thanks to Google showing that might be the case.

When the Audi TT came out my older sister really wanted one and asked my opinion , I said, buy it new and trade it in before the warranty expires........

Would've loved to have seen the connectors for all the major computers. With today's shoddy quality control, maybe it was something as simple as a wire becoming unpinned. With the right combination of bumps and rattles, it would take down communication for a split second.

If she didn't tell the dealership about the problem the it's likely sitting on their used lot with the existing problem, but if she did tell them and they are shady then it's probably sitting on their used lot with the existing problem. What are the odds that she did tell them and they aren't shady...

Maybe Meeks Lane is the equivalent of The Bermuda Triangle for VWs.

$1500? Honestly I feel like that's missing a zero on a VW! LOL I made a bad call on a module a couple weeks ago, and had to cut a $3,000 check to the shop to make it right. I'm currently in talks with Ford to buy back the module, as the bad call was the result of an undocumented OTA update that drastically altered module behavior and broke subsystem functionality. Fingers crossed! I am SO glad I have a Toyota now...

This video is like one of those weird Japanese movies that don't have an ending. They just stop. 😄

I would check the alternator first 😊

I had a Passat when I lived in Maine with the 3.6 vr6 engine that would stall when I made a hard left turn. Turned out I had driven through some standing water fast enough to splash water into the filter box and some of it had settled in an area below the mass air flow sensor and when I made a hard left turn it would short it out.😊

I think there was a TSB and flash updates on a bunch of vw's for the same code/s. I know the tuner folks were having issues with the same codes and fiddling around.

Traded in an old POS for a brand new POS.... Smart lady!

Engineers have been designing parts to fail predictably for a while now. Henry Ford used to send engineers to junkyards to see which parts had minimal wear. They figured out which the parts were "too good" to cut down costs. And down the rabbit hole it went.

I love my sonic cleaner for doing throttle bodies and carbs. I hang maniforlds from overhead frame, and do half at a time. Haven't tried a cat yet. If one ever fails i'll give it s shot.

19:24 I agree about the auto start and stop. And it was activated and the customer wasn’t aware of it.

Ivan, did you check battery health? I have a ‘13 BMW X3 that had a failing battery and that stop/start feature. The car shutoff at an intersection, would not start and once I did a key cycle, I had a transmission failure message on the iDrive display. That was not the kind of excitement that I was looking for. I did at health report and had tons of low voltage and communication codes. I don’t know this manifests in a VW but sounds sort of similar.

20:55 '...internal computer glitch failure...' No, actually it's performing exactly as programmed.(ssh don't mention Dieselgate) When I first started studying electronics 101, looking through the RS Catalogue, there are inline 'fuses' you can insert into your creation that will fail after a predetermined number of powered-on hours +/- a tolerance, so yes, predetermined failure can be built in.

Always get an extended warranty and hopefully it will pay to replace all the bad computers! LOL!!!

I've seen this kind of issues before on a jeep when the auxiliary start/stop battery was failing and usualy it eats the other battery because the alternator tries to overcharge the little battery and cooks the big one

I haven't watch the video fully, but given all those codes, I'd check the condition of the battery, all the battery cables and grounds that are accessible and see if the alternator is charging the battery correctly. Modules nowadays are very picky with the voltage 😅. If the battery was the original one, that would be a clue...

Auto start, stop is the dumbest thing they ever came up with.

After cleaning it's good to do throttle body adaptation.

She obviously was not a follower of your channel and so did not have the faith in your abilities like we do. 😊😊

That internal performance problem is Interesting. When a embedded processor is designed there are specific requirements to have lots of extra cycles and memory set aside. It really shouldn’t happen based on these design practices. I wonder if the code had a memory leak.

I've always found auto shutoff to be really stupid. You stop at a stop sign for a second in a parking lot, let me turn that engine off for you. Don't know if I'll ever own a vehicle new enough to have one, and if I do I really hope it has a on off button like this car has. I buy used and don't like the complicated stuff they put in new vehicles anyways. AC/heat, working locks/windows, reliability and good fuel economy and a good stereo/speakers(easy enough to install those), that's all I really need.

If they disconnect battery/ clear codes for anything losing compensation values will mess you up when the issue is stalling, not happy, no codes, and symptom start, dies unless you keep it alive, poor gas mileage, power. I didn't believe dirty TB caused all the symptoms and yup, cleaned it, customer said it never drove that good when she got it. On the car PID showed compensation value of 19%. Max is 16 confirming TB dirty justifies tearing in to it. I had a pos vw do it too and one was one relay.

I think that PCM gets quite hot in engine bay, which another concern .

Its Audi/VW I saw a generator code aka Alternator... #1 rule of thumb for Audi/VW if u have a ton of codes.... VOLTAGE Issue. Either battery old and not charging good or alternator issue... as for start stop absolute worse feature must be codes as perm off and that lane assist stuff never turn it on!

I have had A similar problem on a vehicle with stop start once . The battery was on its way out but test said 70% state-of-charge , huge list of comms codes after a restart when autostart kicked in . Replaced battery and reset the BMS never had the problem again .

Was there a low charging issue listed? I would have liked to monitor that too, just for grins. A sudden or steep drop in voltage could trigger an issue like that. But when it comes to cleaning throttle bodies, I like to remove it so I can see everything clearly.

At the start, you read out that they found a broken/corroded wire for a rear parking sensor. Could it be, that there could be another location in the wire loom that is shorting, causing the main bus communications loss? The car designers have gone overboard with their modules and wires - back in the 80's and 90's, the introduction of the CAN bus networking, was supposed to REDUCE the wiring complexity, but they have forgotten the KISS design objective.

Believe it or not the Atlas is an American SUV. VW does not make them for any other country. The VR6 was a good motor though. Strange glitch.

The same thing happened to a customer that was having his car repaired at a shop here in Rochester NY. The VW died without warning. It was six months old.😢😢

The auto industry has been doing this since the 1950's maybe earlier. It's called designed obsolescence. I can't remember the exact story, but a company made something so good that their sales fell and they went out of business.

The other day our Ecoboost freaked out. I’d reversed out of a parking space, everything normal, but when I came out of reverse, the radio died and the Bluetooth stopped working. Stopped and restarted car but made no difference. After journey when I came back to the car an hour later, I started the car and everything was fine. The car is 6 years old and I’m thinking the battery might be getting weak.

Thats something my wife would do. Car has a bad battery, it didnt start. Trade it in😂😂😂

My wife had a VW Jetta TDI. At 60K, bulbs started burning. The mechanic said we should replace them ALL because. They will all soon fail. By 61K we had replaced every exterior light bulb on the car. There re a bunch and they are a premium.

Brake Clean may do the job very well, just be sure it is safe for Plastic parts or Electronic sensors that may be in or on the throttle body.

Had the same issue on my Honda odyssey. The car would just randomly glitch and shutoff for a fraction of a second. Ended up being a bad wiring harness.

Internal performance issue is an interesting code. But if you have worked with software development on those computers there's one factor to consider and it's the fact that the computer runs several different subroutines where each one is assigned a certain execution time and execution interval. If this isn't properly calculated then there might be more code to execute during some conditions than what the processor can cope with so the execution starts to bite itself into the tail so to say. The resolution to this is to lower the frequency of some executions a bit, like not reading the engine temperature at every loop but every four loops. So maybe a firmware update was what was needed. As for "some conditions" it could actually be that the dirty throttle body made some routine run a bit longer than usual to compensate for the requested opening not being sufficient. At least I would have checked if the firmware was up to date on the offending ECU just for the sake of it.

I am mobile programmer/diagnostics in houston. Do alot of ECMs on 18 an newer Atlas. You can do used with ODIS. Very easy. Not saying thats whats wrong with this one but they are high failure rate especially with those miles. They sit right beside the engine and bake.

Carburetors rock. Nice watching you diagnose all the computer garbage though.

I guess the egg timer in the ECM hit zero and turned on the scare the customer feature to buy a new one. 🤣🤣

Auto start stop sounds like a good starter replacement program for the stealership.

Closure forever denied! That's a bummer...

Ivan. Have you tried a factory reset on your other tablet? That should return all the software to the version it had when you got it, unless that version is less acceptable than the current one you don't like.

My daughter bought an atlas. It shut off when I drove it. She told me about that feature. I told her to push the button to disable it. I’m thinking it would wear out the starter.