Villains Too Stupid To Win Ep.08 - Sauron 

And killing a child multiple times

Voldemort definitelly had the worst army infiction. Groups of unrefined and undisciplined kids are easily able to defeat them, and they are in a 5 to 1 numeric advantage. The only kill they pull of during the saga is Sirius Black, but even him was killed by trickery and not skill. It's really hard to believe that both Lupin and Tonks were killed by them in the battle of Hogwarts, since even in greater numbers they manage to be worse than Stormtroopers.

@@bigbangrafa8435 I want to point out that Bellatrix was the exception and she hunted down Lupin and Tonks. But then I remember she was destroyed by Mollywobbles so

Voldemort technically already did take over Hogwarts, albeit with the worse choice for a headmaster on his part not knowing that Snape was and still was a traitor.

@@AroAceGamerthe weird thing is that in the harry potter universe exist pocions and spells that force you to say the truth and he never tried to use them

Yeah. Honestly just because a villain is doomed to fail, doesn’t mean it’s a bad villain.

Sauron's great. He's the OG evil dark lord. Delving into the extended canon also makes him significantly more interesting.

Yep. A villain that is also his own worst enemy is also a very realistic villain. Why? Most top-tier bad guys in the real world fit that bill and only God knows why they reached that top-tier station.

I mean... he also has Eru moving stuff behind the scenes. Like how Mary just happened to get the Barrow Blade, which he just happened to use to shank the witch king. Not even Sauron can stand up to divine fate.

@Despairing Sperg ungolianth is even more scary for me, just an outside in the void being that doesn't give a damn about anything

And not to mention the Marshes, with undead people trying to capture anyone that passes by.

And 10 000 orcs

"The pass of Cirith Ungol is inadequately guarded." The Tower of Cirith Ungol: "Am I a joke to you?"

Except they made it past. And fairly easily.

And plus the whole point of the ring is that nobody no matter how strong willed can willingly destroy the ring and Sauron was right, Frodo didn't destroy the ring on purpose, it was only in trying to wrestle it back from Golem that it was cast into doom

So, the BRI'ISH are pure evil.... Can confirm 😂

This is anti british propaganda

Shapeshifting, he can make himself look Handsome at one point but he lost it when God Literally sent a Flood just to kill him and his cronies.

Because he did all that when he still has the ability to turn himself into a beautiful being?

@@olegshevchenko5869don’t bother haha only legends know the extended lore (because there’s no movies, you’d have to read about it lmao)

I think Sauron had a good reason to underestimate/not know about hobbits. Because Sauron is one step removed from his God Lord Melkor, he is very in tune with the song of creation. A song which includes every being in Middle Earth. Every being EXCEPT Hobbits.

@@JohnSmith-jp5bj this sounds like the Hobbits existing because Eru used a GameShark code...

I don't think that's the case. Sauron was very likely familiar with hobbits, because they were involved in a battle against Angmar. Sauron's plan involved giving out rings of power and using them to control, because he believes everyone desires power and would do anything to gain it and keep it. It never once came into his mind that someone would find his ring and decide to destroy it. That's why you don't see any orcs guarding Mount Doom.

@@VeselkoKelava yes but wouldn't he be able to inform the Nazgul of the Shire's location if that was case?

@@lamogio7938 what do you mean? When Sauron found out from Gollum that the Ring is in Shire, Nazgul went there.

This makes one heck alot more sense than Sauron not bothering to use his "Colossal Mace".

I heard Media Zealot said something about "this review is based on the movies", so the books have no power here, Joe the Dredd...

@@MrlspPrt Even so I thought it was worth mentioning cause it's brought up a lot, so hearken to me, I release you from this spell.

Not purely a film invention he is said to possess a mace in the Silmarillion.

@@oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682 Maybe so, I may have missed it in the Silmarillion, however he certainly never wielded any such weapon during the Siege of Barad-dûr.

People really seem to underestimate just how strong Elindil was. I feel like if Elindil had lived, maybe he would've been strong enough to toss the ring. Or maybe he would've given it to Elrond to do it.

What amuses me about the critique that the ring stunted his physical form is that I can barely remember a single time when Sauron DIDN'T get his ass kicked in a 1v1. The one time that comes to mind right now was when he defeated Finrod by playing dirty and activating his PTSD. And up to that point, Finrod held his own remarkably well considering he chose to enter a song contest with a being that participated in the freaking _Ainulindalë._ Sauron, as strong as he was, he's a maia after all, was never primarily a fighter. He's The Deceiver. What makes him so terrifying is his ability to effortlessly manipulate, sway and corrupt the will of others. The Ring just enhances that ability tenfold. But because it was made of his essence, he is obviously weaker when he removed it, and his fate and the Ring's are now tied.

Yep. I wish the movie had been more accurate about that part.

Sauron was "thrown down" so I don't think he was dead when the ring was cut from his hand. Tolkien most likely would have used the term "felled" if Sauron was dead. More than likely his physical body just diminished when the ring was cut from his hand but he was definitely conscious the entire time as he existed in both the seen and unseen realms.

@@magiv4205 I dunno where this idea that "sauron isnt a fighter" comes from. the fights he lost, were against incredibly powerful beings. 1. soloing Elindil and gilgalad, and killing both of them. 2. Huan who despite being "a dog" was pretty much on par with the valar in terms of combat strength.

Yes.

Ok, so he knows what a lie is and yet never suspects Aragorn of lying? And he doesn’t have to think Frodo is trying to destroy the ring to understand that a hobbit had the ring at one point (the Nazgul told him so) and now a hobbit just so happens to walk up to his front door. He went to the effort of capturing and torturing Gollum for info on the ring and yet has no interest in questioning Frodo about where the ring is? For all he knew Frodo could be under the ring’s influence and bringing it to him. He couldn’t spare three orcs from his army to go nab Frodo and find out where his precious ring is?

Cope

Sauron thought Pippin had the ring, not Frodo. More than that good luck finding a hobbit in middle earth. Even the terminator had trouble finding a Sarah Connor in a single city in the age of phones and computers whereas Sauron has the entirety of middle earth to search for a single hobbit

@@click8708 “Sauron thought Pippin had the ring.” What? Why? Because he’s with Aragorn? Why would that mean he has the ring? And are you telling me he even cares to tell them apart? Either way, he knew there were four hobbits, he knew one had the ring, now one is at his front gate and one is in his backyard. He has 10x the army that Aragorn has easily. Why can’t he spend 10 men looking for Frodo? He didn’t need to search middle earth, he knew there were two hobbits in Mordor and intentionally ignored them. Like fr what do you mean “Sauron has the entirety of middle earth to search”? No he doesn’t. His orcs told him they caught a hobbit inside Mordor. What searching does he have to do?

The Battle of Winterfell in the Long Night comes to mind

@@rafetizer The Battle of Yavin comes to mind as well. The only reason the Rebels won that battle was the Empire being even dumber than the Rebels and the literal divine intervention that is the Force.

@@raw6668 battle of endor was pretty bad too

And almost all episodes of star trek.

@@molybdaen11 True, as they seem to pull stuff out of their ass with the power of technobabble. Joke: Which is ten times more reliable than magic, which the Jedi insist is Mass X Acceleration.

Welcome Back my lord

Fuck republic long live empire

@@shivanshna7618 Boo.

I pulled out of my dead nan for this

@@dankenstein9462 *dials 911* Hello, officer, I have a war criminal in front of me.

Sauron is like five minutes from winning in the books for almost all of it. He not only almost gets the ring dozens of times but he almost defeats his enemies constantly. He manages to luck out and have a massive reserve even when his enemies cheat and use ghosts to win and even then he only loses because of a stealth mission done by the most unlikely of heroes.

Yeah this video is quite poorly researched lmao. Including scenes from the friggin Hobbit movies 🤮🤮

This video is one of his worst ones. He should also change the series to "Heroes so stupid that they never should've won." And you can basically use very movie, unlike his current scheme Basically villains lose because the story makes them lose

I don't understand why people make Tolkien videos without having ever read Tolkien, but RU-vid is full of people who watched the movies and think they know what's what

Didn’t he break Gil-Galad’s neck?

@@hz.kemalpasa2997 If I remember correctly, Sauron held Gil-Galad's neck and the heat of his hand burned him

@@combineadvisorwithinternet6040 exactly. its why he reached for Isildur instead of hitting him with his mace. He wanted to gruesomely burn him to death with the heat of the ring.

he seems to know it though

Hey iz dat humie boss

What kind of person asked this sort of dumb questions? ;) Alcohol, salty wenches, good food and life :) becoming rich is the obsession of capitalistic real world so why is it so weird :) hehe. Really now Sauron in the past often used material incentives for his servants to do a good job, promised rewards for job well done, hell even fucking Orcs in the book talk about getting paid: "Maybe! Then you'll fly off with our prisoners, and get all the pay and praise in Lugburz" Jokes aside it's not hard to imagine what things those corsairs may want :).

"Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew"

@@fantasywind3923 So Sauron really build industry, created hundreds of thousands of paying jobs and made his country great again ;)

@@Swiss_femboy oh well definitely, though don't expect trade union regulations that take the rights of workers in mind or any sort of benefits for the poor ;), Sauron's empire is predatory capitalistic and ruthless state hehe. Mordor is well run organized military base: "‘I don’t like the look of things at all,’ said Sam. ‘Pretty hopeless, I call it - saving that where there’s such a lot of folk there must be wells or water, not to mention food. And these are Men not Orcs, or my eyes are all wrong.’ Neither he nor Frodo knew anything of the great slave-worked fields away south in this wide realm, beyond the fumes of the Mountain by the dark sad waters of Lake Núrnen; nor of the great roads that ran away east and south to tributary lands, from which the soldiers of the Tower brought long waggon-trains of goods and booty and fresh slaves. Here in the northward regions were the mines and forges, and the musterings of long-planned war; and here the Dark Power, moving its armies like pieces on the board, was gathering them together." Though it should be noted that Tolkien envisioned that in the distant past when Sauron wasn't yet so far gone into evil, he had some good intentions: "‘In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. I do not think there is such a thing, since that is Zero. I do not think that at any rate any 'rational being' is wholly evil. Satan fell. In my myth Morgoth fell before Creation of the physical world. In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.’" ... "But at the beginning of the Second Age he was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape - and was not indeed wholly evil, not unless all 'reformers' who want to hurry up with 'reconstruction' and 'reorganization' are wholly evil, even before pride and the lust to exert their will eat them up. But many Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor."

so nobody ever saw the path at the black gate? why was a tower built there then? how does it have a name with NONE of the natives knowing it, but a knight of gondor does???

Thank you for this. This video made me angry. Sauron was no fool

Eru cheating yet again...

I think they sort of didn't get this across in the movies. And this was directed at the movies, which Sauron never seemed to be the best explained in. I was riled up until it was specifically mentioned 'Sauron from the film series'.

plus from sauron's point of view, it would be pretty much inevitable that even if the ringbearer was not corrupted by it, they would be killed by someone more susceptible to its influence before they got to mordor anyway

That's nice and everything, but at the end of the day hubris and overconfidence to that degree is still being a dumbass. I know if I'd been Sauron I'd have been ruing the choice to not post a sentry, or two, at the very heart of my greatest and only true weakness. He's been scheming for millennia, and foiled more than once. What a goof...

Not the bodies we looted?

HaHahahahajajaajjahJahHaaaaa!

I swear if you come near my potatoes im shoving them up your ring.

No ho-that-censored-word-mo...

They're the lords of my ring

That's interesting. The Witch King had ranged against him Aragorn, Gandalf, his ancient enemies of Cardolan, and the power of The Valar. The one thing that didn't particularly scare him was fire.

@@alanpennie8013 the incident that is referred here is Nazgul facing Gandalf on Weathertop few days before Frodo arrived there with Strider. Gandalf used his power then against the Nine: "'I galloped to Weathertop like a gale, and I reached it before sundown on my second day from Bree - and they were there before me. They drew away from me, for they felt the coming of my anger and they dared not face it while the Sun was in the sky. But they closed round at night, and I was besieged on the hill-top, in the old ring of Amon Sûl. I was hard put to it indeed: such light and flame cannot have been seen on Weathertop since the war-beacons of old. 'At sunrise I escaped and fled towards the north.'" The Fellowship of the Ring, LoTR Book 2, Ch 2, The Council of Elrond Frodo and others even saw this from distance and later the signs of this struggle at the site: "As Frodo lay..., it seemed to him that far away there came a light in the eastern sky: it flashed and faded many times.... [The] dawn... was still some hours off. 'What is the light?'.... Strider answered[,] 'It is too distant to make out. It is like lightning that leaps up from the hill-tops.'.... [For] a long while [Frodo] could still see the white flashes.... The Fellowship of the Ring, LoTR Book 1, Ch 11, A Knife in the Dark ... "On the top they found..., a wide ring of ancient stonework, now crumbling or covered with age-long grass. But in the centre a cairn of broken stones had been piled. They were blackened as if with fire. About them the turf was burned to the roots and all within the ring the grass was scorched and shrivelled, as if flames had swept the hill-top...." The Fellowship of the Ring, LoTR Book 1, Ch 11, A Knife in the Dark Aragorn said: “Sauron can put fire to his evil uses, as he can all things, but these Riders do not love it, and fear those who wield it. Fire is our friend in the wilderness.” But it doesn't mean that it's a particular weakness of Nazgul in a way that it hurts them, more likely it affects their perceptions, since fire emits light and light muddles their perception of the world, we are told that they: "They themselves do not see the world of light as we do, but our shapes cast shadows in their minds, which only the noon sun destroys, and in the dark they perceive many signs and forms that are hidden from us: then they are most to be feared." Besides facing Gandalf using his awesome fire powers would be far more dangerous :).

@@fantasywind3923 On a reread I find that Aragorn did pick up two firebrands when the Nazgul attacked, so PJ didn't invent the incident. But certainly the film makes way more of it than the book did.

@@alanpennie8013 yes the films make more of it for it to be more dramatic, the Witch-king in any case was only truly threatened by the blade which had properties to harm him, Frodo cry of Elbereth was also important, but the Nazgul also felt they no longer needed to stay as the morgul-knife wound would in time turn Frodo into wraith and so he would come to them bringing the Ring with him (as a lesser wraith Frodo would be directly under their command and would obey their orders but they didn't count on Halflings being so resistant to the dark power of the knife, Gandalf even claims that a big Folk Man would succumb to this wound far quicker than a Hobbit).

@@fantasywind3923 Hobbits are tougher than they look.

Tripping isn't a deus ex machina

Sam could still have been able to locate where Frodi was

​@@pyropulseIXXIthe Will of Eru Illuvatar, the creator deity of the setting, and Frodo using the Ring to curse Gollum to be cast into fire if he touched him again, well that is literally fate being warped by good and evil powers to destroy Sauron.

@@seekingabsolution1907 Yes, but none of that is a deus ex Machina; there is no 'god out of the machine(s)' in this case.

@@pyropulseIXXI Gollum doesn’t trip, he’s literally pushed over the edge by Middle Earth’s God.

Yeah, all lore master nerds trying to defend Sauron from the books, not realizing this dissection is about the Sauron from the movies. So much nerd rage in these comments, it's pretty fun :)

@@Moldylocks I haven't seen much of it honestly.

@@Moldylocks Yeah, we get it, you're a tough smart guy. Hide your wives and daughters, etc

@@Moldylocks Haven't seen any rage, but I did find some respectful and informative comments about the book perspective for anyone who's interested in knowing more about that version of Sauron. Seems to me like you're the one who looking to spark conflict where there is none?

I mean I love LOTR but Sauron is not big brain so I don’t scorn this video

Even Tom Bombadil wouldn't have been able too, he only had his powers in his land

Don't foret. Frodo didn't want to throw the ring, it's becsuee of gollom and him falling for the ring that it fell. Kinda a catch 22in a way. Which is beautiful in terms of tolkeins view of evil. The ring did nothing wrong but by doing what it was supposed to, it doomed it self.

@@mr.voidroy6869 actually the magic in the ring made gollum do it, it promised gollum it would never go back to gllum,.

Fans of this series are so lame.

@@georgecatton Had Bombadil taken it, he probably could have. He just wouldn't have. He doesn't care, that's the thing

The best line of this video

😂😂

Funnily enough in the book: :) "'When Saruman was safe back in Orthanc, it was not long before he set some of his precious machinery to work. By that time there were many Ents inside Isengard: some had followed Quickbeam, and others had burst in from the north and east; they were roaming about and doing a great deal of damage. Suddenly up came fires and foul fumes: the vents and shafts all over the plain began to spout and belch. Several of the Ents got scorched and blistered. One of them, Beechbone I think he was called, a very tall handsome Ent, got caught in a spray of some liquid fire and burned like a torch: a horrible sight." The Ents are quite durable though: "There was no answer, except arrows and stones from the walls. But arrows are no use against Ents. They hurt them, of course, and infuriate them: like stinging flies. But an Ent can be stuck as full of orc-arrows as a pin-cushion, and take no serious harm. They cannot be poisoned, for one thing; and their skin seems to be very thick, and tougher than bark. It takes a very heavy axe-stroke to wound them seriously. They don't like axes. But there would have to be a great many axe-men to one Ent: a man that hacks once at an Ent never gets a chance of a second blow. A punch from an Ent-fist crumples up iron like thin tin." :)

Also the incident in California.

Sure it wasn't you messing with SCP-1179 by feeding it the entire world's copies of Twilight?

He is talking about the Ents, Dr Bright.

:)

Apparently, the possibility of resisting temptation didn’t occur to him.

Also Sauron (but doing a Velma impression for some reason): My ring! I can't maintain my corporeal form without it!

@@Vistico93 😂 that’s just great!

More like those stupid fat Hobbits it ruins it.

And then Jeff Bezos made him suck

tbh thought something similar. went "is that supposed to be a negative?"

@@leeman27534 What if there’s another monster you prefer over elves?

Depends on the elves. The ones from Harry Potter? Nah, mate

Tolkien's elves are always 10/10, so it's not like it's even a fetish unless we're talking about the one difference between humans, which is the pointy ears

@@Horny_Fruit_Flies they actually have a huge setback: they can't and don't want to have any... relationship with someone, with whom they are not married. And they are not willing to marry mortals, because that would mean a terrible grief and suffering only after several decades. I'd prefer Dragon Age elves to be honest.

That's know for sure anyone who delves deeper into lore will immediately tell all is known about it's power or that is 'seen' is only tip of the iceberg, in any case here are the specificly shown powers of the One Ring: -power of 'command' ability of dominating, corrupting and enslaving minds and wills of other creatures (even those not wearing the other rings): "He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans." (Letter 211) -controlling all other rings of power and ability to influence minds of other Ring users ("Sauron made the One Ring to rule all the others, and their power was bound up with it, to be subject wholly to it and to last only so long as it too should last. ... while he wore the One Ring he could perceive all the things that were done by means of the lesser rings, and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore them.") -power of rendering visible things invisible (in truth drawing half into Unseen the wraith world since Sauron is in truth a spirit he has some level of control over that second layer of reality) this same power is what allows him to create wraiths, the living beings who are 'fading' into this other aspect of the world and wraiths are powerful beings -insight and understanding (since part of Sauron's power and will went into it, it contains portion of Sauron's knowledge): -power of understanding tongues ("Perhaps the Ring gave understanding of tongues, or simply understanding, especially of the servants of Sauron its maker, so that if he gave heed, he understood and translated the thought to himself. (Return of the King)) -it also is an amplifier artifact which enhances all powers and abilities of possessor increasing strength of Sauron himself and enhancing other creatures giving power according to individual's measure (someone already powerful will get even bigger power boost) -it enhances people's senses and affects their bodies in mortals it gives longevity and preserves from the passage of time - The power put in it also makes the Ring somewhat capable of doing things on it's own, it can change it's size and weight, it can move itself in limited degree, put itself on someone's finger (or compel them to put it on) or escape and leave the finger, betraying the person essentially, Sauron himself also had an effect upon from afar, if he send his thoughts towards it it could do stuff with more intensity, it also contained the powers of other rings ("the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others (Letter 131)); it can call out to Sauron's servants and draw dark creatures to itself: "There was not only cunning in the attack, but fierce and relentless hatred. The Orcs of the Mountains were stiffened and commanded by grim servants of Barad-dûr, sent out long before to watch the passes, 20 and though it was unknown to them the Ring, cut from his black hand two years before, was still laden with Sauron's evil will and called to all his servants for their aid." The fact that it tries to return to it's master is because of Sauron drawing it to himself when Sauron is weak or far away it may lapse into more dormant state but it still can work on it's own to limited degree, but when Sauron wills it, it becomes far more active: "So now, when its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum."

@@thotslayer9914 it certainly takes many misconceptions as a fact, has many inaccurate statements, or downright misrepresentation of facts, also the problem is that the author of the video can't decide whether to follow book version or film version, it seems to use only movie perspective yet he tries to venture into deeper lore but in the same time doesn't go full on it with either one or the other. Even the film makes clear that the main power of the Ring is influencing minds and that is a powerful tool.

@@thotslayer9914 some statements in the video are debatable, the fact that he calls Ring's 'questionable usefulness' or that he says it's a 'superweapon that only works against him' are main quibble, the Ring actually is highly useful and very successful element, it's pros and benefits outweigh the risks without a doubt. And of course the Ring itself would always aid Sauron in direct confrontation. Tolkien actually wrote about a 'what if scenario': "In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end. Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." And we know that Sauron could exploit the weaknesses of his enemies: "For if we have found this thing, there are some among us with strength enough to wield it. That too he knows. For do I not guess rightly, Aragorn, that you have shown yourself to him in the Stone of Orthanc?' 'I did so ere I rode from the Hornburg,' answered Aragorn. 'I deemed that the time was ripe, and that the Stone had come to me for just such a purpose. It was then ten days since the Ring-bearer went east from Rauros, and the Eye of Sauron, I thought, should be drawn out from his own land. Too seldom has he been challenged since he returned to his Tower. Though if I had foreseen how swift would be his onset in answer, maybe I should not have dared to show myself. Bare time was given me to come to your aid.' 'But how is this?' asked Éomer. 'All is vain, you say, if he has the Ring. Why should he think it not vain to assail us, if we have it?' 'He is not yet sure,' said Gandalf, 'and he has not built up his power by waiting until his enemies are secure, as we have done. Also we could not learn how to wield the full power all in a day. Indeed it can be used only by one master alone, not by many; and he will look for a time of strife, ere one of the great among us makes himself master and puts down the others. In that time the Ring might aid him, if he were sudden. 'He is watching. He sees much and hears much." ... ""In his (Sauron's) actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it (the Ring) from him. Of 'mortals' no one, not even Aragorn."

@@thotslayer9914 this is the unfortunate consequence of discussing a complex storyline of Tolkien, there is always thousands of minutiae and details that need to be adressed to get the full picture :).

yeah, but the key point of 'these are essentially sauron's basic powers, somehow annexed from him and installed in essentially a horcrux' still means it's fucking stupid.

I find it ignorant as hell lol

why? pretty much everything he said was true. there is a bunch of bullshit in tokiens works

If we're being specific the God that dunked on him was Eru Illuvatar, as opposed to any other and more importantly that death happened before the last alliance. That shit happened after he died and returned to mordor.

Yeah, a ring that kept sauron in middle earth and out of the spirit realm, (after Sauroman was killed, he was forced into the spirit realm for eternity. Sauron was not even when his physical form was destroyed, because of the ring), that no one could bring themselves to destroy, was a bad idea. Come on, man. And Isildur's sword was MAGICAL, not a random sword. Sauron was cocky and offguard, for nearly being able to singlehandedly win the battle and kill the king like it was nothing. He also did not expect that sword to have those abilities, and that it caught him off guard (a mere mortal able to stand up to the dark lord and former servant of Melkor??). It still didn't kill sauron, and he was just as powerful again at a later time, if not moreso. And by that time, the northern kingdom of arnor had fallen, and gondor was weakening, especially with the near extinction of the southern dunadein (Aragorn was northern dunadein, and they kept their bloodline more pure, which was why he was able to live to be 210.) It was a series of flukes, pity (sympathy and empathy in this context), and comradery that allowed the free peoples to win. Frodo, the most pure hearted character, couldn't destroy the ring. What chance could anyone else have? Everyone would either succumb to it eventually and take it on for themselves, and would always fail at destroying it. It was only pity that allowed the ring to be destroyed, where Gollum had been kept alive and following them, which allowed the destruction of the ring. If you have any knowledge of this universe, you'll know that it the odds were a million to one in Sauron's favor.

@@seekingabsolution1907 the thing was that sauron could physically die, but he couldn't be removed from Arda. Sauroman went to the spirit realm when he died physically, but Sauron didn't because of the ring.

@@seekingabsolution1907 Sauron went to Mirkwood (pretending to be a necromancer) and was there for ~a few thousand years until the white council attacked his base of operations (dol guldur) during the hobbit, and ten years later, he declared himself to have returned and take up his presence in barad-dur. It is said that the mountain erupted to welcome his return.

@@seekingabsolution1907 I would like to mention that the battle where he sauron fell was at the end of a 5 year siege. For which he and his allies came forth to try to break allies before they ran out of supplies. In this sauron used his might to be a line breaker, and took to greatly powerful heros out before he weakened.

Let's even add to that. He managed to convince an entire kingdom of men to start worshipping Melkor and to build a temple for him. Sidenote: Sauron technically did this while imprisoned. He surrendered on purpose and slowly started working his way up gaining the trust of the king. He went from prisoner to advisor in a surprisingly short time.

The fall of Neumenor. The survivors built Arnor and Gondor. How did Arnor fall and become the men of the north?

@@wolfy8006 The witch king crushed arnor after it fell to civil war, picking off it's holdings one by one.

@@wolfy8006 arnor was divided carolingian style and the witch king invaded, destroying it and scattering arnor into a few rangers

I think Sauron put that on his Dark Lord resume - Causing the sinking of Middle Earth's Atlantis after turning most of its people into devil worshippers who attacked the gods

I hadn't previously considered that the film's invention of Nazgul vulnerability to fire had created an inconsistency

He apparently took it personally being cut from the theatrical release of the last film, but he got over it. I'd be pissed if I worked hard on something and nobody got to see it.

@@SpoonyBard88 But let’s face it, everyone watches extended

@@frozenweevil4022 not everyone sadly....

@@ManiacMayhem7256 who? What heretic is responsible

why was he still arrogant? he was defeated several times and his master, who was way more powerful than him, also got defeated several times. its said that sauron is smart. every halfway smart person would have lost their arrogance by now.

Wrong saruon actually lost his shapeshifting abilities and most of his power when eru literally God destroyed numinor with Sauron in it blasting his physical body effectively weakening him Case in point sauron had the one ring with him and he was able to transport it to Mordor in his weak state Basically for the elves and men to have even stood a chance Given Sauron at his most powerful can easily destroy armies and warped the world with said power

Yea it's weird the movies never made mention that Denethor had been toying with a palantir just like Saruman had been, it's why Gondor was so underprepared

I mean, that was effectively the point of the rings he gave to the leaders... to make them weak and corrupt and to make their kingdoms easy to conquer once they fall into disarray.

How quickly the tide turns

And how a singular strike can end his reign

What would they even put it on?

@@FlymanMS A talon, presumably. It's not like the thing couldn't change it's size to fit. Sauron's finger was a lot bigger than Isildur's or the hobbits'.

@@dustincompton992 yeah the solution would have been to send a eagle who lost a foot so it cant put the ring on

Wait... so the eagles and wizards can be tempted within hours? Because apparently most of the problems in this theory are based on this, and Gandalf traveled many days with Frodo, and in The Hobbit he wasn't tempted by the ring, so another theory could be "you're only tempted if you know what is that ring"... making this concept even worse.

Now that would be an interesting world, A great eagle empire ruled by tyrannical bird elites.

Warhammer 40k has a demonic being like this, Lucius the Immortal. A servant of the God of Pleasure, whenever he is killed, the joy and glory bestowed upon the being that killed him turns the being into Lucius, thus continuing the cycle.

Nobody could beat Sauron using a ring made with his own essence, it's just like trying to kill Zeus using thunders, or drowning Poseidon... or being more literal (using older elemental gods): trying to kill the son/husband of Gaea (that one with a pun by name) burying him alive.

Except Isildore does? Lol

@@MrlspPrt it’s actually mentioned in the books a few times that that’s one of the few things that Sauron fears though, so it was at least a possibility.

@@MrlspPrt Tolkien himself says otherwise. in fact he stated in some notations that if for example gandalf or any of the wizards were to put the ring on they would definitively curb stomp sauron . the ring has the bonus of making the person who wears way way way more powerful. Tolkien said that if gandalf wore the ring he would defeat sauron and then would be corrupted by the ring and would have become a new dark lord FAR WORSE then sauron because he would not only be righteous but self righteous

Where in the video is this?

@@gabeurbanik4941 5:42 shows Morgoth dueling Fingolfin

@@jeahm09 I am not sure if he knows who Morgoth is....😅

I almost shed a tear when I saw that, then I remembered that it’s really only us LOTR nerds that have read the silmarillion 💀

Some theories hold that no one in middle earth could have successfully thrown the ring in. Eru iluvitar made gollum trip and fall in. God had to intercede for the good guys to win.

This. Yes Sauron wasn’t an idiot. And it shows even if he did win it wouldn’t be doom and gloom. If you look at how Efficient and prosperous the Easterlings are that’s proof. This video made me angry. Most of the time Sauron did dumb shit it was because the enemy forced his hand

I'm starting to think Sauron wasn't idiot, but Tolkien made many mistakes in his lore. For example: some said "the eagles can be corrupted", but also "the most important you are, the most affects you", but in many explanations appears to be dangerous only if you know what that ring is. For example: Gandalf apparently didn't feel something weird with Bilbo in The Hobbit, but also in The Fellowship he barely worries about Bilbo being young and having a weird ring... if I was a sentient magical ring who can corrupt powerful beings, my first thought would be leave that crazy "mini old man" for that powerful wizard who may be curious about a weird ring he apparently never saw, just as he left both Isildur and Gollum. The same with the Elves: didn't Bilbo talked with Thranduil already having the ring? Because he may not know about the ring, or he would mistook it for something random and then being possessed by it.

@@jackruby6696 No he enslaved the easterlings and corrupted then they became dark and evil they became slaves and we see in frodos vision the hobbits were slaves sauron would have been a brutal dictator only his actual stories would be treated somewhat well like the easterlings and orcs but in the end they are slaves as well

@@BRG1807 not so sure on that one . While of course he would be an absolute dictator he would be content with holding onto middle earth and being worshipped . We do not really have cases of him being unreasonably evil for the sake of satisfying his sadism. While his corrupting influence did of course create such sadistic followers I do not believe that they would be allowed to stick around as they would be needlessly causing unrest and drain resources. Orcs for example would most probably have gotten fully replaced with the passing of time. And most probably he wouldn't start any other wars knowing that this would be the peak of his power and no action could possibly be taken to defeat the Valar. And do keep in mind that the easterlings were fully defeated quite some time after the fall of Sauron . Which means that they genuinely had witnessed quite a lot of progress under him or else they wouldn't be able to keep on fighting not would they be willing. I'm not saying that Sauron was a good guy by any means nor anything remotely close to it but his goal was to become an almighty ruler , and he wouldn't be one without a worthy civilization to match him.

I always enjoy this underappreciated fact about his craftsman nature being brought up, its such a rich aspect of his character, beyond the fact he literally put a large part of his soul into hid greatest creation.

Why wouldn't Sauron with his battle experiences know enough about military tactics and such? Why was it necessary to blow-up his own cover in the hobbit trilogy? Why not having enough guards for the protection of mount doom? Why the eagles weren't used for this mission? The video didn't exactly said how strong was the bond between the Nazgul and Sauron but couldn't the Nazgul who last saw Frodo with the ring inform him? Was the connection only one way from Sauron to Nazgul? I don't remember those parts correctly so that's on me if I'm mistaken. There's an "elephant in the room" type of question that has bugged me since this past few months regarding Silmarilion and Lord Of The Rings in general and that's: what the hell does Eru illuvatar doing exactly? He saw fit to intervene and drown a humanoid race with magical abilities (Numenorians) but decided to sit the whole Sauron thing out? One of if not the most powerful Maia in existence? What the hell are these Valar and Valeir doing as well?

Bro, dont tell me you didnt listen to this video. And he didnt make any of this sht up, its straight from the books 😅

don't know what book he was reading then, this is how it is.@@turbanheadless

Exactly. When the orcs of Mordor realize Sauron lied to them about knowing where Frodo is, he actually goes to the top of the tower to free Gandalf and try to make amends, but finds Gandalf has escaped. I don't know why people make Tolkien videos without having ever read Tolkien.

I’m not too familiar with Wakanda (in the comics, very little in the MCU) but what’s their fatal flaw?

@@christopherrichardson2945 not being in wto

@@phunkracy oh, ok

Are you trying to get him cancelled?

@@Sporora yes

That’s a point many miss. The power of the ring to corrupt should have kept anyone from destroying it...and indeed, it was destroyed by accident and without intention.

It's almost funny how he freaks out when he realizes. "And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung. From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain . . ."

Kyle Hill did a breakdown of Sauron’s eye and determined that he wouldn’t have vision for spit based on how eyes actually work (bigger isn’t better). Maybe that’s why Sauron wasn’t able to make use of his “all seeing eye.”

At the end, Sauron was thinking, 'now why didn't I put a door on that volcano?'

@@MySerpentine Oh, I love that! 😆 Nothing is more satisfying than the Thought of Sauron practically p*ssing himself in Terror.

But Sauron was also singing in that music, he should have known better. Also the fact that it was ulmo that drowned him out implies his story ends when his body is destroyed in Numenor.

@@seekingabsolution1907 that is when he lost the ability to shape shift and influence and just became hatred and malice made manifest so his story did kind of end there, he just raged at the world after that till the ring was destroyed

@@seekingabsolution1907 They didn't. Only Eru was able to see the outcome and full scale of the music. Remember in Silmarillion when the Ainur saw Arda the first time, they were surprised about what became the music they created. They didn't know anything about it, for those were Eru's creations and visions. Illuvatar said "everything will, in a way or another, play for my grace and vision". Even evil and all tragedies that happened were part of Eru's plan, for even from despair and death, beautiful and mighty things can be born.

What a bunch of nerds

It's possible having a lore with strong morals, but in other stories and even in real life, killing a relative was common in higher social levels.

@@MrlspPrt They did that a lot in the first and 2nd age. And some point you just want the bloodshed to and

Also take into account isildur would have stomped elrond in a fight, not to mention he has the one ring,

Also remember that Elrond murdering the King would be a surefire way to trigger a massive war between men and elves that would most likely end in both races dying out. Murder was not an option

Plus Elrond could not have harmed the ring, even indirectly. It's grip was so terrible, especially on someone as powerful as Elrond.

It was the Mordor troops who had worse weapons.

I mean to be honest nobody ever uses sharp swords in warfare anyway. Look at the swords used in the medieval age and they've got an edge, but it's surprisingly hard to cut yourself just by touching it

plus, what matters far more is their insane brute force, rather than a cutting edge.

Armor doesn't matter in LOTR when simple arrows can penetrate plate armor.

@@TheTeremaster you're talking total nonsense. the swords they used were sharp and you can't cut yourself on anything if you just touch the thing, you have to slice, not touch. some swords were meant for thrusting, which made them not as sharp as swords meant for cutting, but they were always still sharp. and the sword was not even that common on the battlefield anyways, polearms were the most common and also most effective weapons.

Considering that Gandalf's fight with the Balrog (a spiritual creature of equal stature to a Maiar) caused an entire mountain to collapse, it was wise of Saruman to imprison instead of kill Gandalf.

Ganfalf and Sauron are the same beings,both of them are Maia.

The imprison of gandalf would makes sense considering that resurrecction power if saruman knew about it, but that only works if gandalf was really imprisoned. The dumb samuran just left gandalf over the roof, not even a chained to it. Even without the eagles, gandalf could just climbed down. Even if he was incapable of climbing down, he could just kill himself by jumping and then resurrect down there

@@chabri2000 The resurrection is not a guaranteed thing. It only happened because Saruman failed in his task, and Aluvitar sent Gandalf back as what 'Saruman was meant to be.' Gandalf the white is not Gandalf the grey. Why would Saruman not think that putting him up on the high tower was sufficient? He had his staff, Gandalf could cast no magic. He got lucky that the eagles decided to save him.

@@HoHhoch what about climbing down? just put a chain on him and problem solved (or kill him, but saruman was a softy)

That's the equivalent of throwing the ring in. Elrond is even more susceptible than Isildur, and pointing out Elrond's failure is the same as saying "why didn't Frodo just toss it in." No living being can. Gollum had to slip for it to finally get thrown in.

Elrond would be killing what is effectively his nephew and he'd be damned by the valar for it.

Only that after the screams of a burned body would have stopped and Elrond would be about to go out and tell the people of the terrible tragedy , something would catch his sight. A sliver of sunlight. Reflected on something shiny. No. The impossible became true. The ring did slip form Isildurs finger. And there it would lie. Taking it would be the easiest thing to do. And afterall didn’t Elrond already sacrifice enough? He just became a murderer. Something nobody should ever know. And maybe with temporary help of the ring he could make this sin good. He could Mend the rifts between the kingdoms and heal the world. To atone for the crime... to take the ring suddenly seemed like the easiest thing to do... and so the dark half elven lord Elrond was born :-)

@@davidpohl9774 see this is a proper reply to a joke "what if" scenario. Expanding upon it and making your own story

@@jamesonjjjoseph3705 IIRC, according to Tolkien, Elrond could have destroyed the Ring by summoning all the love he had towards Middle Earth and then throwing himself into Orodruin. Yeah, arguably the nicest guy in Middle Earth could have destroyed it only via suicide.

Yeah, if you're an idiot. Just make a bunch of mundane, tiny objects your soul jars and, I dunno, drop 'em down a hole. Bury them in your backyard, lose them in your couch cushions or something. The heroes will come in expecting it to be something you'd keep close, and that's when you reveal that- oh shit- you completely forgot where you left them. Also your keys. You really need to get a key rack or something- and turn it into a soul jar too!

@@MrNickPresley exactly, it’s so strange to think about it, if the ring was actually washed into the sea by the river anduin like saruman assumed, Sauron would have won

No, he wasn't. Sauron is an angelic beeing who can't be "killed" or "dead". Isildur just destroyed his current physical form and severely weakened him.

he was not dead in the book, dont know where you got that from.

For clarification: I did not mean that Sauron was permanently dead, just that his physical form was defeated. (I think the exact wording is "thrown down" in the Silmarillion) My point being, that Sauron was (unlike the movie) not defeated because the ring was cut from his finger, but instead the ring was taken after he had been beaten. Maybe I should have worded it differently.

@@arduskaine3381 Im pretty sure we was just exausted after winning his 1v2 against the top 2 fighters in Middle Earth.

@@dnaseb9214 That might of course also be the case, it is quite unclear as it is only one sentence.

I hope so someday. It's definitely my favorite part of the silmarillion. Yet I do have to wonder if they'd keep the name " the Lay of Leithian" as the title for the accidental and ignorant "sex appeal" ( if you see my point) to sell it to Hollywood and the public or change it because they don't know what that title even means which is of course the problem... Hollywood given an actual wonderfully written story about a strong female character who rescues her boyfriend will still somehow completely corrupt it into some subverted political message with tonnes of sexuality shoved in where it never was needed nor belongs because they have no understanding nor respect for the source material, just the IP and the money it brings. So as much as I want the film made I fear the result if it was. At least now.

That's his point. Bit stupid to wear a ring that gives you power.....when said powers are literally your own.

He dont question ring having his powers but fact that ring seemingly did not give any advantages justifying weakness it created.

@@AzureRoxe those are not powers just side effects of it being bound with Sauron...and it is stated multiple times in the movies that only Sauron can use it

@@AzureRoxe The Ring actually enhanced Sauron's power when he wore it, according to Tolkien

@@wojciechwerner8787 The Ring was a guarantee that Sauron would always be able to come back from a defeat, because no one left in Middle-Earth, except for that one singing hippy, had the will to throw the Ring into Mount Doom. The ring also did boost his powers, and was itself pivotal in his plan to dominate all races in Middle-Earth

Hobbits also get enhanced sight and hearing when wearing The Ring. In The Seat of Seeing Frodo could use the power of The Ring to see what was happening everywhere in the world, as if he had a palantir or Galadriel's mirror.

you are right from certain point of view. the ring transports the owner into wraith world, in essence making the owner a wraith like being removed from conventional, material reality. If you use it too much, you become more synchronised with that world than material one.That's what made nazguls "invisible" eventually, in fact they lost their humanity and human bodies. as well as bestowing numerous other powers and abilities based on bearers strength; since hobbits are so weak they only get "invisibility" they can't even fully control

Well, it doesnt give hobbit invisbility or enhanced sight because they are naturally sneaky, but rather lesser beings than Maiar will be brought into the unseen With frodo being the ringbearer, having used the rings a couple of times and been stabbed by the witch king with his blade, Frodo will see things that Maiar can also see Ghost, wraith like creatures, or elfs true form, as creature of light Isildur also turned invisible Beings such as Gendalf and and Galadriel are those beings which will have their power greatly enhanced thats to say, they would been brought to pair with Sauron himself, because Sauron, Gendalf and Galadriel are in a sense the same race, they are all Maiar...

It really doesn't do much at all. Why even wear it if it makes you disappear if cut off?

The Thing with the Ring is that its multyplys the Power of the owner. Were as the Ring grants Hobbits These minor Things it gives divine beings like Sauron or gandalf unthinkable Power. Even a man would get mich more powerfull than frodo in he wears the Ring.

The ring isn't actually a Mcguffin, because it actually has powers and takes action in the story multiple times.

@@skillbrunnen1677 I doubt the Ring gave divine powers to the same being who forged it. Maybe Gandalf or another Maiar, but not the Maiar who forged it... and I bet the Valar themselves whould see it and laugh.

@@MrlspPrt the whole deal of Sauron making that Ring was not just to be able to rule the other ringbearers (corrupting the one's given to men and turning them into the Nazgul), but to hold onto his power that he has so it does not wither and fade away like magic in the Middle Earth setting was starting to do in the 3'd Age

Sees a reference to terrible writing advice: “huzzah. A man of quality”

so are men, elves, dwarves, wizards, and hobbits. yet only 1 of the middle earth species could have cut the trip to the mountain down by years.

@@SinStar87 the eagles would have been easily seen coming. The whole point of the plan was stealth.

@@JohnSmith-im8qt point of the plan was to destroy the ring. flying eagles gets it done fast. Their only real threat from sauron's side was the nazghul, which we know are allergic to fire, so the master of the Secret Fire could probably do something about that.

They're also as power as wizards according to the Silmarillion, so you can imagine how terrible it would be if they were currupted.

The air above Mordor is as a poisonous fume that chokes the life of those who breath it. The smoke billowing from mount doom both clouds the skies, and is toxic. Imagine sending a hollow boned bird with a corrupting ring, through a cloud of poison fog, into a nest of Nazgul flying things, to drop said ring into a volcano. What would have really happened is that the Eagle, if not corrupted would have been poisoned and in a daze, attacked by the Nazgul and being on the receiving end of a surprise attack for once. And probably dropped the ring somewhere on the vast amount of poisonous land covered in malevolent selfish asshole creatures.

however on that note, it is stated that at his strongest sauron surpassed melkor at his weakest, which doesn't sound like much but given how powerful melkor still was, that's one hell of an accomplishment.

Well. Thanos actually succeeded in doing what he wanted to do. They had to go back in time to beat him

@@aaronayers1873 but what he tried to do was stupid. He must have never heard of exponential growth to think that cutting the population exactly once in half would help.

Considering Media Zealot got a DMCA from Taco Bell imagine what Disney would do.

@@besNait stupid maybe. But succeeded he did

@@aaronayers1873 he really didn't. he succeeded in killing half of life, sure. but that was a means to an end, he wanted to prevent overpopulation, and he didn't really succeed long term, there. a) that's a temporary solution - a population can make up those numbers in a few generations. he essentially killed unnecessarily, as well as only 'solved' the problem, for the few places this was a problem, for maybe 50 years. we went from 1 billion in like 1800 to nearly 8 billion in 200 years. yet somehow, dropping that to 4 billion solves overpopulation in the long term, how, exactly? and b) if he snapped all life in half, and that includes plants and animals, that doesn't really solve the issue, because he halved the sentient beings, but he also halved the resources, outside of space. cutting the resource drain in half, but also cutting the resource in half, results in the exact same situation, resource cost/available wise. if he really wanted to solve the issue, he should've implanted some sort of trait in the dna of all living things to decrease the birth rate if the population starts to exceed the available resources. that way, it could self correct without deaths, as well as be a far more permanent solution than just getting rid of a few people.

Yeah he made rings to corrupt humans. Elves, anc dwarves but not hobbits. He either didn’t know hobbits existed or thought they were insignificant. I think that’s why Hobbits were more resistant to the ring’s corrupting effects.

That is the useful clarification on this video.

That's still stupid!