Virgin Airbus A330 Return due UNTRAINED PILOT?! 

Par for the course, sadly…

Typical newsies.

So was the media in the US

Typical of the British newspapers, and yes, this is one of many aspects that does not make me proud to be British.

@@tomwilliam5118 Imagine US newspapers but 50% of the journalists are helicopter parents. That's the British press D:

There's a reason they're known as #scummedia.

@@wycombewanderer6649 👍👍

@@wycombewanderer6649 nobody actually knows this, except for some wackadoos.

Idk I read this story in the Guardian and it was made pretty clear it was a company policy, not a regulatory one

@@hayleyxyz I did not understand him to say every media outlet was reporting incorrectly. Did you?

That's also what I do : I mail the medias and/or post the "evidence" on their social media. Most of the time, I get temporarly or permanently banned and the mail probably goes deletion direct. However I recall at least a handfull public corrective statements from some main newspapers in my country (a few days later), some notable efforts from less established news feeders (mostly on Facebook), and taught my relatives to give a trust score to any media (especially Facebook - and stop sharing a unsourced or unverified claim). Was depressing at the beginning, but quite routine today. A better world depends on the number of people doing the right small things against the number of people doing it all wrong.

@@StephenKarl_Integral Many online news sources used to have a comment section at the bottom of their articles. However, most news outlets have removed these comment sections because commenters would often correct the so-called professional journalists.

@@Eternal_Tech So true 😅And others have come up with another workaround : you must pay a fee to be able to retrieve older articles. So, most people aren't willing to pay, and avoid to post any comment because it becomes private in only a week. I also know someone in the industry who told me they use a bot to flood the comment section with garbage when there is an offending one. I can't confirm if it's real and widely used, but it makes sense.

@@Eternal_Tech It's amazing really. The so called professionals act like little kids plugging their ears when people call them out. I will not believe a word anyone says when they go the path of censorship and don't allow any open response.

@@Eternal_Tech It is ironic that correction is one of the foundations of safety. Making a mistake once is forgivable; continuing to make the same mistake is intolerable.

Same

Indeed, exactly.

you are spot on, and on top of that these media posts can also ruin a company's name even though if they hadn't returned back to London to switch crew, most likely we wouldn't have heard from this

Our bus got lost. We had to guide it back to the actual route. The guy could drive, got round some very tight corners he’d obviously been driving another route for too long & it was now late evening, new route. He could have done with a buddy to check his first run. Not because he wasn’t experienced and calm when he was told of his mistake. But because his autopilot in his head meant he did what he’d always done. As a passenger it was funny, definitely no ‘horror on the 12 bus route as driver misses turning.’

Media today are great at using misleading headlines that are sometimes borderline lies.

Just goes to show how scummy the media is and yet people still buy into the bullspit they are peddling. It's time to send a message to these talking heads and hopefully more of them end up unemployed forcing them to learn to code or something. I'm tired of their lies.

And the comany going public about it. What Gigachads.

good point

Apart from the fact it does look like very free publicity for the company.

@@hairyairey Have you seen the video? Most of the Newspapers made it seem as if Virgin uses untrained pilots, so more like a bad public view.

@@maxvandoorn3799 well if the newspapers have mangled the story so much that it's libel then that's more income for the airline!

There ARE some great aviation journalists out there but these newspapers are not great.

We call it the Daily Fail for a reason ;)

@@MentourNow You're probably one of them

/s I'm sure it was fully fact checked though! I mean the fact checker probably has a degree in ancient Egyptian literature so they are defiantly qualified to talk about the aviation industry right?! /s

Steve, I'd have more faith in you being up front on an aircraft than the Daily Mail telling the truth. And I have no idea who you are :-)

Actually, that is what media wants. More accidents, so they have more to talk about, and get more clickbaits. Media needs a huge overview, the bad press is getting out of the control, and the good press is dying under the mud.

Very well said.

Nothing is perfect, but statistically It's still way more likely a person could die in a road accident than an air accident,

Yes, totally agree...

Agree. The all caps words mislead the tone and severity of the situation. This is very click baity.

👍

They don't care about safety, all airlines care is about their survival. If something happens to the plane and it was uncovered the first officer hasn't completed his test, it would bring so much blame against the company and its image will be tarnished and not to mention the FAA would ground and fine them.

@@krisr5228 did you miss the part where the agency states that both pilots were qualified? Watch the video before commenting shit like those moronic journalists

@@krisr5228 stfu! What r u even saying? They do care ab Safety, cuz that’s how they’ll ensure their survival 😹 How can they ensure survival without taking care of safety procedures? U make no sense lol

@@krisr5228 a lot of other airlines would have just kept going, as there’s a 99.999% chance the plane lands without incident. So either they’re super paranoid about liability, or they actually do have a safety culture. Considering Virgin is one of the safest airlines in history, I’m going with the latter.

Yep, sometimes harder language is needed.

@@MentourNow I loved it, stay passionate Petter!

@@MentourNow not harder, just more passionate!

So going for the whinging pom stereotype? 😂

@@tnexus13 Aussies are just poms who adjusted to the heat by drinking and being lazy. But we whinge plenty.

Exactly the same reporting across the ditch in NZ too.

@@GlennDavey wow, more misleading comments. I’m one of the 8 in 10 Aussies that isn’t related to poms. Don’t speak for the other 70% including indigenous people that would NEVER associate with being English FFS…..

@@thelittlefarmmr Sorry, there's a lot going on in my reply. I'm being satirical. You're absolutely right, of course

This is definitely regional / subjective. For me, "fired" implies an individual termination, but not necessarily for cause in the legal sense of the word. IE "I was fired because I can't work Tuesdays and that's when they need people". Whereas a layoff implies something solely due to lack of need.

First I've heard of this so I checked The Cambridge English Dictionary. They list Petter's use as correct.

Definitely means "for cause" in the UK, but I don't think that's the case in the US.

@@beeble2003 Does.

@@beeble2003 not necessarily in the UK - P&O were described as firing their staff and I've never understood that it to be that way...

I might have decided otherwise if I'd been them, since the flight was legal and safe after all and diverting it would only frustrate the passengers. I'd have let them go and done so that the administrative mistake won't happen again. But I'm not them.

@@materliliorum But in the incredibly minute chance something would have happed the insurance would have been invalid. This incident shows why Virgin are in the top 10 safest airlines in the world.

Search engine in RU-vid shows what people wants to see. And people wants and likes click-baits.

@Saniay Swain Actually, people hate clickbait. It is a way of manipulating people.

It seems pretty clear that the F/O made no errors there at all. It's pretty reasonable to expect that the scheduling system will ensure that a pilot will not get scheduled on a flight that does not meet all the conditions required for that pilot, such as being an aircraft on which he's qualified, making sure he's in the seat (left or right, which is a separate thing from captain vs. FO) for which he's qualified, flying with another pilot qualified for the other seat, and so on. Needing to fly with a line trainer is just another of the many requirements to be met. And it wasn't really the two years of madness that's the root cause of this; that just helped expose an apparent problem in Virgin's scheduling system.

Well said. This is a wonderful demonstration of what can be done with a RU-vid channel. It is very professional informative, real, practical, and entertaining. I can't use the word professional enough when talking about mentor pilot! This is a great use of technology, the internet. The production level I'll show shows how dedicated and passionate he is about being not only a pilot but being an entertainer, a teacher, and a great leader.

Probably both pilots needed replacing to comply with hours having flown already.

Thank you for pointing out that concern. Not that it's a new twist, but, it's better to have all possible factors on the table when picturing a situation and find out if someting has to be done about, and serve as a basis for analysing future situations. It takes everyone's expertise at their respective order of importance to have an accurate assessment.

Maybe the captain wanted a female copilot? Have you seen these girls, always drop dead gorgeous.My pilot from sjo to yul was a girl, walked beside her.Just smooth.I wanted to put a leash around my neck and let her walk me home!!LMAO.Smooth take off, smooth landing. Very skilled.HUUM!

@@anonymousxish gross

That's a good point, but I'd say in some other airlines they'd continue and try to cover it up so, they still get the credit for returning back

They do that a lot and it is probably a mix of ineptitude, laziness and target fixation (having found a scoop and not seeing the contradictions anymore). I've read press articles to death numbers of vaccines in multiple countries. Not one of these journalists read the studies they were quoting,.They were quoting the cover data summary or overview graphics, not the studies themselves. In one study the introduction on page 3 immediately contextualized that death numbers actually meant people who died after getting the vaccine, but none actually showed a solid connection to the vaccine. In another study it was on page 80 or so. Sadly most journalists don't read more than the first page(s). Even worse, the newspapers just portrayed the total number of deaths analyzed an claimed that the study said they were linked to vaccines. The opposite of what the quoted studies actually said. Many news outlets sadly are a joke in fact checking and while there are many, some valid, excuses to be made, it creates a real problem that even renowned news outlets public wrong news, which in the end is just as harmful as intentional fake news.

@@denidale4701 Journalism is the worst career path. They think they have the glory of bringing the truth. Everything behind the free speech shield. Absolutely trash people.

@@denidale4701 I don't consider them journalists anymore. Most can't write an article that gets passed their own personal biases let alone is factually accurate.

@@denidale4701 the problem is social medias. I'm old enough to remember before internet. Media are all about scoop. Before internet they could take their time, investigate, confirm everything with many source. News was on tv from 5 to 7pm. Now, news are 24/24. If they wait 5 sec, they will lose the scoop. Everyone will already be talking about it. They just don't have time to make sure it's true before it become old news. Add to that, anyone can buy a camera and record "news" in a small room. They cannot compete and they have so much more hours to fill. The only way is sensational title, outrage to attract eyes, opinions more than news because they just don't have the time to do more. All because the rule of the normal world doesn't apply on internet. A plumber could run news about Ukraine on RU-vid and be followed if he sound credible enough.

My theory is that the press is doing a form of trolling. They piss of both the people who are quick to anger and slow to understand, and those who already know about the topic. Many others are just there for the show, to watch whatever interesting is supposedly happening.

Yes! That was impressive.

The photos for the article I saw on it made it seem like it was a commercial plane, when in fact it was a Cessna. Doesn't make it any less impressive, just another way media conflates and sensationalizes to get clicks. Was very happy they landed safely (much kudos to the passenger) and relieved it wasn't a big plane.

@@amypondhikes More impressive if you ask me. He actually had to fly it.

@@amypondhikes More impressive indeed. Much less autopilot functionality and single engine aircraft. On the pluside easier to land a smaller aircraft in a field etc

@@amypondhikes a cessna caravan is by no means a run of the mill 4 seater cessna

The trouble is that most passengers don't want just A to B; their journeys are X to A to B to Y and it is those landside elements that can significantly influence the choice of journey mode.

I have arachnophobia (it's impossible to explain or justify). At some point, I decided to learn more about spider til the point I can identify each species. I still have arachnophobia, that deep sense of insecurity, fear and despair when suddenly faced with spider, but, armed with knowledge, I can calm down very quickly and even play with them, overcome the uncomfort of feeling their web. I don't even kill them because they are good natural predators for flies and mosquitos which are an infestation in my country (Madagascar). Fortunately, I don't live in Australia. No spider in Madagascar is potentially deadly, some bites, only a few have venom (it's just painful, not damaging) and they only attack when threatened (or when a female is nursing and you happen to be nearby) So, yeah, I can relate, like, knowing more about what you fear is likely helping you overcome it in a way or another.

@@StephenKarl_Integral good for you! I shudder by just seeing the word “spider”

I live by a quiet airport and it still has a good ten flights a day sometimes. Seen a few go arounds and seen flights in all manner of weather. Never a problem and I'm close enough to the airport to see everything

The term for that is capitalism

@@monika.alt197 It's not. Capitalism isn't inherently the problem. Greed is.

@@GareWorks hunt for profit occurs as a result of greed

@@GareWorks greed is good?

@@TesterAnimal1 Sometimes greed drives ambition and drives the need for change. Sometimes greed can be good if used in the right way. Few things are inherently evil and few things completely innocent

I stopped trusting newsies long ago. The only people I trust less than newsies are politicians.

Sounds legit, I would fly Virgin anytime now lol XD

Yeah right, thank god we have the ministry of truth at RU-vid now.

@@luiskp7173 Rather, there are channels (or more accurately precise individuals) that at some point took the decision to be informative in a way you can verify or openly challenge statements/affirmations, shed lights on various matters, teach anyone how to cope with contradicting voices, where and why you should think again before trusting... this, at their own expense usually. Actually, there are quite a few of them, the vast portion of youtube being : - music, memes and gaming (entertainment) of no important information or educational purpose - another chunck people exposing their life and beliefs - another much smaller chuck of useful information - another chunck in constant monitoring of the next extraordinary claim (mostly false and toxic) to make money. The said "ministry of truth" is mainly motivated by the last chunck, but at some point when people in the wrong will claim they are also "ministry of truth" systematically at the start of their videos, yet again, youtube will revert back to the video-specific version of facebook it was once before, making your perception noisy and parasitic again. Best practice today is to listen to everyone and pick the few telling truth (after analysis) and boycot those lying to the world. Why ? Because people are just wasting their energy, money and time on irrelevant or wrong matters, then they blame the world while the problem is themselves. The bad news is, youtube algorythm is doing its best to prevent the rise of smarter people. You can't find on youtube something that doesn't match what your history tells you watched, so, one who watches garbages cannot learn anything good on youtube, another who watches factual and verifiable information will have a better understanding of the world, this, increasing the fight between those who knows and those who are convinced to know while being wrong. The last possible potential cure on youtube (or any social media) is to post a seemingly controversial comment (the self proclaimed "ministry of truth") and for anyone to open his window to proceed on the verification process. That's why "truth claimers" are annoying, people just want to stay in their comfort zone despite this making their life miserable. Nothing has changed over the centuries. We are not becomming more "civilized and intelligent" on a global scale.

@@StephenKarl_Integral "You can't find on youtube something that doesn't match what your history tells you watched, so, one who watches garbages cannot learn anything good on youtube..." Um... Do you NOT have a "search" bar (labeled and everything) at the top-center of your screen??? Scroogle who re-arranged their stocks through a new shell company called "Alphabet" was ORIGINALLY just a search-engine... They DO still own RU-vid... AND my browser has a search-bar... Does a pretty damn solid job when I pop up there and search for content I haven't watched before... whether it's more instructional or psychological or based on critical thinking and fallacies (refreshers are a good idea)... OR I'm just searching up the dubious (or garbage) video being discussed by someone else under the "ministry of truth" banner to watch the whole thing myself, since so few ever actually put the entirety of content on their own vid's instead of cherry-picking critical segments they can bash easily... I've gotten used to smelling a "hatchet job" in the past... AND if you really WANT to alter what YT has to offer, make a habit of leaving a like and even a silly comment for those things you've had to "run a search for" if you're interested in the subject... I go as far (to manipulate the algorythms) as to watch entirely and like and comment on at LEAST two (2) videos related to whatever subject I was originally checking out if I want more of "that sort of thing"... It really helps shift my feed... and it's not like it's all that difficult... I DO get that with phones and tablets (not having true external keyboards) it can be a pain in the ass, but it's hardly impossible. ;o)

Just get me to my destination. I don’t want delays for liability mitigation.

I 10000000% agree with you.

The aviation industry holds a “special” place in the media’s heart.

More of the media need to find themselves fired and forced to find work elsewhere. Learn to Code wasn't a hashtag for no reason. The media have gone so far downhill that the public is starting to trust them less and less.

@@JoshuaPenaranda a special place of misinformation. they can't get the aircraft type right, they call every terrain in an airport 'Tarmac'

@@AA-tz2bm "EMERGENCY LANDING!"

And even then BBC used the same garbage headline as everyone else. Only those who read the article got the correct explanation (even if provided in quotes) and based on the twitter replies they were a tiny fraction...

The media is just awful. There was a fire in my hometown and the papers went straight to blaming the homeowners before even a police investigation had started. Turned out the homeowners were innocent but people still today talk about the fire like it was their fault. Horrible

deserves an answer, great question

He would have got his briefing pack and assumed everything was in order.

More likely he just assumed the very experienced pilot he was flying with was a line check Captain.

That's a good point, and would be a great thing to add to their protocols going forward.

Thank you!

What would be the conversation, when the FO does everything a FO is supposed to do in a timely manor (demonstrates familiarity with the craft, no fumbles)?

I assume it's related to line managers, the managers of the people who are directly producing a company's products or analogously in other fields of business.

Hmm… good point. Since I love all this content I don’t pay too much attention to the titles. But you’re right-maybe having the title saying “true story behind” would immediately reveal that we didn’t get the right information.

I initially understood the video incorrectly from the title. I would have continued to think the pilot was unqualified if I didn’t watch the video.

I didn’t know that! How terrible! Not only do they have to put up with increasingly more disrespectful passengers and also be willing to put their own lives at risk if there’s an accident, but to also not be compensated for time they spend doing flight-related tasks…. That is very unjust.

Thank you! Glad you find it helpful