@@Mongoman73000 Feel free to review the pricing information listed on my site foxxmount.com. If you'd like pricing information for your particular usage case, feel free to drop me a message on my site and I can give you a detailed cost break down. Thanks!
THANK YOU, I've been hearing H.O.T.A.S vs Dual Stick all the bloody time while sitting here with both trying to get people to realise the best of both worlds and just getting moaned at by people that don't understand... Glad to see I'm not alone in this.
Valek, do you mean that you have dual stick AND throttle in action? Because... I sort of just blew an entire paycheck on Dual stack and throttle from Virpil and was assuming I'd stick with just HOTAS or HOSAS... but if you have a compelling argument for HOSASAT I'd be very interested to know how you are integrating everything for a comprehensive setup.
The brake lever is perfect for the Mig-21 in DCS. In that jet, it has a huge damn airbrake lever on left side of the stick to allow nose wheel steering using an air system not hydraulics. This stick is perfect for that jet.
I have zero experience with flight sticks for gaming. I would love some for playing Star Citizen though. This video was really informative and helpful. Thanks for giving me a knowledge base to build from.
Liked and subscribed. Been watching a few of your videos on Virpil and VKB products. Very informative from a technical and ergonomics perspective. Eager to watch your video on VKB's first throttle product if it ever gets released.
I love my Virpil Constellation Deltas. The analog thumb stick is surprisingly useful for things like view, and throttle management in Star Citizen. I've got a bad USB cable though, so I'm back on my T-16s until I can get a replacement. My only complaint with the sticks is the use of all Hat Switches. But I was able to get used to them.
I'm curious how you bind your strafe up/down axis on these sticks. I waited for the Deltas for the twist axis so that I could land smoothly. Though I suppose you could use a modifier with the brake levers to for strafe up/down. For throttle, I set a single button for throttle max/afterburner (since AB only stays on with throttle), and another for Space Brake / Throttle Zero. I've found very little use for a dedicated throttle axis. I use strafe fwd/back on the stick for fine movement / dog fighting. For cruising I just go max throttle with the button. I've rarely felt the need to cruise at a slower speed. For escort/formation flying, match speed works well enough.
I really like the Virpil throttle and stick, but I feel myself leaning towards the less pretty Warthog. DCS seems to be developed with the Warthog specifically in mind.
Hi Snake Eater, The "primary" dual stage trigger is actually used for autopilot in the SU planes (which this stick is modeled after). If I remember correctly you would hold it in place to adjust the course and then release to re-engage the autopilot, very useful in DCS. The flip swithch is the main "fire the laser" switch with the safety flip feature for political reasons XD. The warthog is different in that respect- the dual stage trigger is for firing at stuff, not the autopilot. Bests
@@smk6469 what is your opinion of the VKB gunfighter and their other products? do you like them better than Virpil (if you have both) or if you know anyone with both and have used both, what are your thoughts? The VKB products look pretty solid and can be purchased as a "kit" so to say (bundle might be the better word) so it looks like a pretty solid product and perhaps a bit "tighter" swing on the basic bases...not as flimsy. perhaps i need to switch to a different cam (virpil - warbrd, default sprint, default cam, T50cm2 grip)
@@harpoon_bakery162 - I only have the VKB MKIV rudder pedals... They're great, with solid machining. But, what I've heard is that VKB's button quality is a little cheap feeling... Probably gonna have to buy a stick from them just to find out ...
Making this kind of video ain't easy so I think this is a great job. With the upcoming change in SC's flight model, I'm expecting to have to replace my throttle so after seeing the difference you highlighted between the Thrustmaster I know that one is ruled out.
interesting, i didn't realize that those older bases were only 150 us. they are now 313 us. with obvious improvements but wow, double the price now. great breakdown
It’s worth noting that the reason behind the warthog throttle having the lip underneath your fingers, is because when you zero the throttle you can lift it and it locks into a “parking” position. Granted you do need to bolt it to your desk to use this feature
This is probably the best review of the VIrpil sticks to date, TBH if they could HAVE THEM IN STOCK that would be great. I put them on the radar after Noobifier gave them the thumbs up, but now they are on the bucket list and seeing as how TM would rather cheap the crowd than just give us Warthog investors a left hand stick version to add in, I have no problem kissing them goodbye. Last I checked , they're living Gran Turismo fantasies on Terra taking steering wheels as far as they could go 3 versions ago, they don't GAF about flight/space sim enthusiasts for real....tired of waiting on them. Definitely not dropping several stacks on those frilly pendulum pedals until they give us a simple mirrored Warthog stick, it's not that hard... Thanks for the review boss.
i had thrustmaster at first and brought a Virpil LH stick at the moment i found a Warthog stick with a brocken Pinkyfinger lever for cheap. Well thats relative ,but less then half the price of a new one( 75€). When i break the bases i will change them to Virpil. Their quality is outstanding and i had in my Life of allmost 50yrs tons of sticks from cheap in my youth to more sofisticated ones now. If you have some spare Bucks nothing plays in the same league even VKB has a hard Stand and thrustmaster will have to tweak their next high tier Hotas to keep the gap as small as possible.
Great vid, totally sold me on these. Drawn between Deltas and T50s but going to give the T50s a go after this. Will be perfect for flight sims too. Thanks for this, would be good to get more of your views on the rudder controls too.
The reason the cosmosims are good is not because the stop in the middle(theres a version with that actually) its because theres no increase in pressure required to push as you yaw/pitch more towards the outside as the cam is a deep V the cosmosims is the same pressure to move in the middle as the edges. The default one tries to simulate aerodynamic control loading wich is what the cosmosims removes.
Great video, especially the info on the brake levers. Haven't decided on if I want zed axis yet. the con with me is I'm constantly twisting the stick even when I don't need to.
Same! I am in the process of ordering my Virpil goodies and am likely going to go all out and do double stick with throttle... really want to try the brake levers for yaw... anyone have experience with that? If it is not recommended... then I just really love having that twist... SOOO i'll likely just go with a Delta Constellation right and a throttle...
This was a really good and comprehensive review. I have been a long-time TM Warthog user but after suffering multiple failures I have been looking for another HOTAS solution and this really helped. Now that VIRPIL provides a rudder pedal solution this seems like a good direction to be heading.
I actually have the same sticks here I've been waiting for the bases to come in stock for over a month now and I keep missing them, I did not know about the new bases coming out I might actually just wait now. Pretty hard when you have the lovely sticks in the box right there.
I tried my friend's Virpil dual stick setup after getting into a debate with the Noobifier over why the aviation industry hasn't moved over to a dual stick control system for modern day aircraft. He swore up and down that there are maneuvers that can only be pulled off with dual stick setup. So... I honestly spent an afternoon trying out the setup. Now understand that I'm a die hard Stick and rudder sim pilot. I currently own the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and their new TPR pendulum rudder pedals (bar none the finest pedals I've ever experienced). Perhaps with more time on a dual stick setup... maybe I could become more proficient with them but to be brutally honest my brain just would not click over to using them. I'm so used to using my feet to yaw the vehicle and I use my toe brakes to thruster left and right. I did like how the Virpil flight stick's hat switches were far more forgiving in comfort to the Warthog but other than that I felt they were honestly cheap feeling and really too light. And as for pulling off maneuvers impossible for a stick and rudder pilot to achieve... I just couldn't come across any such maneuver that I couldn't perform as well or even better on my current setup including: Barrel rolling, 90° yaw while maintaining forward directional travel, strafing turns, decoupled nose over end, rear nose facing while maintaining forward directional travel. Maybe after I wear out my Warthog I will try out a Virpil or VKB setup... nah, who am I kidding... I'll just buy another Warthog!
The micro adjustments in a warthog are a "nightmare" (total exageration, yes :) but you get the point). I'm mostly a DCS chopper pilot, and the Virpil/VKB style of base, with cam-based mechanical part, is way ahead of the Warthog for that. The grip itself may look cheap (and actually it's not, the feeling is great), but imho the quality of the VKB/Virpil base is better. Go for the heavier springs and you won't feel it light, and it will stay precise in all range of motion unlike the bumpy center of the Warthog. As for dual stick vs HOTAS.... It's pretty simple, if dual stick was a better scheme for current aircrafts, the industry would have moved for it. It's currently not usefull for our aircrafts & chopper, simple. The rudder is exactly as precise as needed and frees a very important tool for a pilot : a hand with 10 fingers on it :) There is a lot of button and switches work to be done in a real cockpit. In a chopper where yaw input is constantly required, blocking 1 hand for that is impracticable. And, to me the killing point of the dual joystick : you lose ALL fine and natural thruster/engine management. And that is also true for Star Citizen, hence why after a long attempt for Dual Stick, I switched back to HOTAS. Losing the complete feeling of thruster value and relying on checking the HUD to see current level of commanded thrust is impracticable at best, a real issue for me in dogfight. I use a X55 Throttle, and I use the thumb rotary for vertical strafe, which is more than enough for correct strafe control in fight. And this throttle issue applies 100x in current real aircraft. Go watch a video of carrier landing, just check the amount of throttle work required. Ask Noobifier to do that with dual joystick ;)
Space vs Aviation, stick and throttle is perfect for a plane, but this is a video game about space so having the extra a analog axis means more control.
I have TM Warthog HOTAS and no doubt Virpil bases are superior. I mean, the TM one is fine as it is and with slight "modding" (to remove big spring and put the little ones + perhaps 1 extra on each pole on the upside) you can make it as stiff or weak as you want, but the middle bump is still here. The stick itself is golden. Feels solid and you really feel like it's indestructible, not to mention how rugged the buttons feel. But yeah the base... once it fails on me, I'll be getting one of the Virpil ones for sure. Only heard good things about them and you just can't beat metal compared to plastic (depends on which metal/plastic they're made out of tho... not all materials are equal :P). TM throttle tho is just perfect, for me that is. Virpil throttle seems kinda small compared, and TM throttle is just enough big so you can get a decent grip on it. The lip doesn't bother me at all, since either my fingers are already too thick leather, or I just hold it differently, because it pretty much disappears in my palm. The slew "mouse" and the hat next to it are kinda too close to each other tho... That slew being slightly odd to handle with big fingers, but I already ordered the upgrade for it (upgrade made out of PS4 controller thumbstick) to make it easier to have my fingers on them as well as modding the thumbstick next to the slew with better textures (simply put, I glued a ring on top of it so my fingertip stays neatly in place when I use it). Otherwise the switches could be replaced I suppose, for games like Elite Dangerous that don't have that many uses for TM throttle switches, most of the switches on TM gets unused sadly. But hey, it's for DCS A-10 anyway :P Anyhow, always nice to see positive reviews from Virpil products. Really helps to build that trust towards their bases once my TM base decides to fail completely (by failing I mean break beyond repair).
I wish they kept the old throttle as is . I bought the throttle, admittedly very disappointed in no analogue TDC on it (first 100 serial number). Then they updated it to add an analogue TDC, I point some friends over... bunch of changes. I don't like the new setup. The old stick did have some problems, hard to actuate the finger hats left and right for example due to the lack of grip, requires very large hands (probably not a problem for most), the general layout was perfect. I was cautious at first but it really grew on me, some buttons, lots of hats, everything in a good position to simulate a real aircraft. The changes put the antenna in a weird position, swap the buttons for hats, add some sliders and some rotator controls. Its gone from a throttle you could realistically imagine to a throttle designed to be gamey and there isn't an option to get the first generation back for my friends. Overall I'd still say it absolutely blows everything else I've ever touched out of the water, but I'd also frankly pay a premium for the old style if mine ever broke (very unlikely, amazing build quality). If I could suggest anything it would be that their two throttle designs differentiate themselves better, having a cheap gamey layout and the more expensive one identical to the first run but with analogue TDC and you'd have perfection.
Hey great overview of the sticks man, seriously good points. Here I am debating over the Warthog system to replace my old saitek x52... Granted the Virpril throttle is just too boku... on sale $300, well you get what you pay for! Yeah, you sold me. My money will always go to Metal over Plastic in _Lifespan_ :)
Greetings from the UK great video, clear, to the point and good coverage of all areas and awesome voice you ought to get into VA with that thing. Sub for you sir
Not so much in my opinion. Because of the light background, the camera exposure/contrast made you and the product very dark and hard to see. Good description though.
Very informative video, thankyou. I'm currently tossing up between different HOTAS options, either is probably overkill for my usage but the VIRPIL does look good. Shame they're always out of stock.
There are certain restock days for the worldwide webstore they will inform you about in their forum. But it is true, also on those restock dates (and times) most of their products are sold out within minutes, you have to be really quick and plan ahead any single click in order not to waste a single second. I strongly recommend registering as a customer beforehand and ideally placing any item desired already into the shopping cart or at least the wishlist to speed up the process. In the near future customers should also be able to preorder, but having already bought my Virpils I don't know much about the details.
your point about flying cargo is a very good one. I was thinking how much combat I'd get into in Star Citizen since im getting back into it. having the throttle not mapped to the sticks makes sense to me. thanks.
Do these flight sticks have twist for yaw? If not, how do you use the rudder? I don't like ruddewr pedals, so I'm only interested in joysticks that give me all the roll, pitch and yaw commands in the stick. I'm a competitive/successful tournament joystick player in War Thunder arcade battles while using a cheap joystick (Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X), but I'm looking for a high end quality joystick to get an edge on the competition. I'm liking what I hear about the Virpil Mongos T50 flight sticks & throttle. Thanks in advance on your feedback and advise. Awesome review by the way. You just gained a new subscriber.
12:42 I am really anxious to see what I could do with that slider if I was playing HARRIER in DCS. Could I use that to control the nozzle angle? It looks perfect for that function.
Apparently they do not sell the left handed all black anymore. Looks like they discontinued it when they put up the new rudder pedals and VPC V.F.X Grip. That kind of only leaves the delta grips as an option. Or possibly the delta for left and t-50 for right. Not sure if i could do the to different grips. Wouldn't feel right for a duel set up
Put a thumb up ! Just missing a comment about programming the virpils. Do they have an equivalent of the Thrustmaster TARGET ? PS : the sharp edge on the TM throttle is used to lift the throttle so you can put it in idle position. I've assigned this to throttle unlock on DCS Mig 21 :)
@@thatnorwegianguy1986 Yes. The grip is the same. Same part number. However, it doesn't work with force sensing base like the F-16. As a matter of fact, the A-10C right throttle is the same used in the F-15E. Only the right throttle!
So are you using the pinky levers on EACH stick for roll? As in the left stick grip pinky lever rolls you left and the right stick grip pinky lever rolls you right?
Here's a big question. The VKB products are shipped from China, meaning they manufacture there. Can you confirm if Virpil manufactures in Byelorussia? Thanks!
Nice job . get Virpil to send you a pair of deltas to review (space sim scenario) . Would like to see something like this for the Delta before i purchase.
Hi Snake Eater, to watch your Videos is a real pleasure, you gave me a lot of informations, i searched for. But i have one more question, is it recommended, to combine an VKB Gunfighter Pro with the Virpil Throttle? (if i ever get one). I play mostly Elite Dangerous, altough i am Star Citizen Backer too. For Elite, i just ordered a Combo of VKB Gunfighter pro, VKB Pedals and a left handed VKB Kosmosima. I think, i was lucky, that this bundle was in stock, not necessary to mention, that this major purchase has torn a big hole in my bank account XD Due the lack of VKB´s own throttle, i thougt about the Virpil product.
I want this stick but with twist and one of the hats replaced with the same analog stick as can be found on the Delta. Im used to using a pinky lever to activate decoupled and I have no pinky options on the Delta and I'm having a harder time adjusting than I had hoped.
They emailed me back they said " it was removed from production but it's possible we may be getting in another small batch in the near future :)" because that doesn't make a lot of sense to take something out of production only to getting another small batch later. I kind of take the statement as a hint for something else in the left hand category. Just a guess
thanks for the nice video...my x52 pro is now 5 years old and i used it for so many hours in elite. but the driver from seitek was always very bad and now i got some issues with the sick it self. i always need to unplug the stick after 10 min because the throttle gives from allone a little bit thrust. i only need to find a way to buy them with telling that my girl :)
my warthog died on me, running Delta on my left and Mongoose2 on my right in Elite - best buy ever (ooh I shortened the to long lever on the Mongoose2 to the size of the one on the warthog - it is fine now)
if you don't mind me asking how much was the duty taxes on the dual sticks? Based on your excellent review I preorder the Alphas but have no idea what the duty tax will be.
I pretend to buy the T50 CM2 base and grip (and extensions). My only problem with the grip (and i think i will buy it anyway, and consider adapting a smaller grip to it latter) is because i have small hands (I am 5`3" tall -160cm-) and i think i may have difficulty reaching the buttons on the top, even with the rest adjustment all the way up. I saw your fingers were all crunched together at 6.19, but you must have big hands! What do you think? Thank you. Nice video.
I would not be able to play without a twist axis on Z and roll on X, so the constellation would probably be my kind of stick, but i don't like the ambidextrous thing, so I might try to get used to no yaw axis if I ever get those.
I said this above as well, but I will say after three days of trying to use pedals for yaw... I just don't think i can do it... I got the pedals because my thrustmaster Z axis twist died... and I needed something quick on amazon before i can get my virpil stuff... Dang... just over the course of reading through all these comments I think i have made up my mind that I cant live without twist... gonna have to be the Deltas... but now the querstion is one or two with throttle?
Very well done review. The one thing I dont understand, how do you use the 2 stick+throttle setup in a space sim. I mean what is the 2. stick for? I use a hotas in Elite Dangerous with 1 stick but I dont see what am I missing with 2.
@@jessecalder Thx for the answer. So basically you use your second stick for the lateral thrusters? How do you increase thrust itself? Or is it also on the left stick somehow? Sry, I have limited imagination, and I just can't comprehend, which axis do which.
@@jessecalder Sounds cool. Right now I have my lateral thrusters on my throttle. There is a mini axis stick right under my index finger. (up-down, left-right) For the backwards motion I use a button to switch power form the main engine to the backwards thrusters. This works for me, but I can imagine with the double stick setup the lateral thruster movement could be more fluid/precise.
Good review, very complete. However after visiting the website I think the price-point is somewhat high considering you need to buy all parts separate. The mechanism in the base does seem to be more reliable, however a plastic stick is still very prone to damage. I don't know about this reinforced plastic, but I doubt it can compare to the durability of metal. Considering the compatibility of the bases I might try it out with my Warthog in the future, does anyone have experience with this? Does it create a conflict in the software? How is the HOTAS displayed in Windows with this combination?
This site has been out of stock on 90% of everything on their site for months . I ordered one of these sticks and waited over 2 months and then got an email saying they were no longer going to produce this product . Still have yet to get my money back.
Thank you very much for this excellent review, Snake Eater. Does anybody happen to know if this joystick (MongoosT50) can be properly operated on an iMac (2019 high-end) for X-Plane 11? If the answer is yes, where's the best place for me to buy one? I live in the US ... NYC.
Thank you, sir. Fyi, here's the response from VIRPIL: "Our devices are recognised as standard USB input devices. While we do not officially support Mac PCs, I believe there are some who use our devices on Mac. It would be necessary to connect to a Windows PC to do the first time setup with the VPC Software (the settings are then saved directly to the device itself and the software isn't needed again)."
They have interesting products. However, every time i look in their web store nearly everything is out of stock. Seems to be the default, somehow a bit strange.
Currently using mouse and keyboard for Star Citizen, I know the new flight model is coming out in 3.5,... what hardware would you recommend for ship flying or wait for 3.5 and see then?
Whished to see this video 1 year earlier ; before i bought a Warthog setup..... For me the Warthog stick is really fine ; but the throtle needed more configurable axis ; what Virpil is doing with it's throtle.
Have i understand right??? I can put my warthogstick on the virpil base???? Yeah i love the warthog. But the ball i side sux. I overwork it and dissable it to tuneup the ball and parts...but..in effect.. not that good i wish. The base of the virpil sounds great for my warthog. Isn't it??!!
Love the look and the review of these, but I am more than a little worried that nearly every item is out of stock, gives the impression of company insecurity
@@jessecalder If I was the CEO of Virpil and demand was that high, I would order a shed ton more stock, building more stock reduces costs while increasing profits. but that is assuming they do not manufacture there own products but out source. I was prepared to spend the money on a WartHog HOTAS but I have to admit I have a real interest in duel sticks for ED. Next stock looks to be the 26th July. decisions decisions!
Great review! Thanks. Is the drill pattern of the base identical to the warthog base? I have my Warthog stick bolted to my rig and like to change to a Virpil base... Would be great if anyone could comment on that. Thanks!
Snake Eater Company, thanks for the info! I will need to go ahead and make an adapter plate then. Would be smart if Virpil would offer this as an accessory. With that they could attract TM clients to use their equipment... On that note; ...is TM expected to finally deliver an update if the ageing Warthog stick anytime soon?
Dang Dude, how the heck did i miss you till now? [EDIT: Oh i see now, you do not have many videos on your channel. That you have to change, mate. :) ] That was an awesome review of some nice pieces of hardware. For the moment i'll stay with my almost unused X52 Pro. But this seems to be my final choice for SC later. I prefer a one grip option and to use a small analog stick on the throttle for 2 axes of the 6-DOF. Is the thumb stick on the throttle analog? Maybe i missed that part. Anyways looks like we both are almost the same age, so sub is already done. Keep up the great work and greetings from Germany.
