Which transmission is best, stick or paddles? David Zalstein and Tony Crawford tackle the question using one of the world's best and most popular hot-hatches, the Volkswagen Golf GTI.
Reminded me of that scene in "Snatch" when dude didn't park in the big ass space talking "it was a funny angle" and the space was the size of car dealership
I got the manual - first manual I've owned in about 15 years. I was surprised at how lazy and distracted I had become driving auto's. You need to pay a lot more attention to what is about to happen, and you need 2 hands in a manual. Others will disagree but I think manuals build better drivers.
Or... as a new driver you could forget the distraction of manual shifting, get DSG and keep your attention on the road. My personal experience, my first car was DSG golf 5, i wanted it from the start because i wasnt comfortable with manual. My eyes are on the road and i am better driver because of it. As you said many will disagree but many will agree with you. New drivers tend to look at the shifter more, it can be really distracting. And to be honest... you getting distracted in driving just because u have DSG doesnt make any sense to me and it never will.
have never seen anyone who looks down to shift gears. you learn your gear box by rowing through the gears before you even turn the car on. honestly manual has quickened my reaction time as well as kept me aware of what i'm doing. Plus having to switch gears has been a tether to keep me from day dreaming while driving. But like you said, to each their own.
Driven a manual for 15 years+, I bought a mk7 golf R with DSG & I'll never go back to a manual again, freakin love my dirty auto haha best change ever! :)
+Trey Rodrigues I have a mk6 2012 GTI with DSG as well, I'd say it's just as fun if not more than a manual transmission. I feel like everyone turns their head to look when driving it due to the turbo. The mk7 R is a beast though, I envy you!
I don't care about faster gear shifts because I am not racing anyone or going round a track. My car is a stick shift manual and it provides a better driving experience and I am more at one with my car. Also getting a perfect gear change is a nice feeling, however it is quite annoying in traffic but on the open road it is brilliant, its more than just breaking and accelerating.
Like most people, I purchase cars second-hand so for me, the DSG could be a pricy fix when it all goes wrong, so a manual Gti is the winner, and I just prefer them. They connect you to the driving experience.
They both forgot to mention one important difference between the two which is durability and maintenance, buy a manual and you don't have to worry about defective mecatronics and vibration and shaking because of weak clutch disk found in the DSG which costs a fortune to replace if not under warrantyGoogle VW DSG problems to read more
Obviously we all have our preferences. I have owned several Golf GTIs over the years, starting with the Golf I. When I eventually graduated to a Golf 7 GTI, I decided to try a DSG model. I did this mainly because in my Country the Performance Pack version came with DCC (Dynamic Chassis Control). Well the DCC was fantastic but the DSG was an absolute dog in my opinion. It routinely got "confused" around town, regularly shifting up too soon and finding itself in the wrong gear. The kick-down, in my opinion, was too sudden and catapulted the car forward when I only wanted to be in a lower gear. Sport mode was far too violent around town for me, it was the complete opposite to normal mode and did not seem to want to change up at all when driving at legal speeds. I think that the soft ware should be redesigned. For comparison, I test drove a BMW 1-Series with a dual clutch gearbox and it behaved acceptably around town. It did not keep changing up through the gears. I realise that I could have selected manual mode but that was not what I wanted to do around town. Obviously it is a huge advantage in mega stop start traffic but fortunately I seldom have to cope with rush hour gridlocks. The gearbox is of course heavier and a damn side more complicated! Bottom line, I approached the dealership after six months and pleaded with them to trade my car in for a manual. Fortunately, my manual has the DCC and so the total package is absolutely perfect for me. Thanks for the great article.
I own a Golf GTI mk 6 with a DSG and I must say I love it. Its my first auto car and even though it may not be as engaging, when you really learn it its fantastic. I only drive the gear box in manual mode and with the paddle shifters its a dream. The down shifts are fantastic, as I could never get heel and toe correct and its so fast. Very happy with my choice!
Just picked up a Mk7 myself. Was torn between the DSG and the manual but I ended up going with the DSG just to spare myself the morning and evening commutes during the work week. I think it's definitely worth the trade off. That small loss in fun and interactivity is given back by the instant shifting and the stop and go traffic ease. I've noticed it's a tiny bit clunky when it comes to rolling in traffic and coming to complete stops after decelerating and downshifting, but it's no worse than any other DCT I've tried. Definitely one of the better boxes and I'm pretty glad I picked my GTI up with a DSG.
Mark Speed6 Depends on how you drive it. When I'm on a long stretch of 80kp/h road I go straight to sixth gear. The engine barely runs at those speeds. Whenever I need power I just chuck it back in third/fourth. Saves a lot of petrol. Don't see myself clicking my way up to sixth gear everytime, and then clicking myself back. Horrible.
There should have been a 0-60 time, 0-100 time, 100-0 and a lap time at some random road course. This was just opinions with NO data. This video needed to be more scientific rather than opinion biased.
I’ve driven manual for over 18 yrs and it was super fun/engaging but now at 52 I decided to pick up a new GTI in DSG so sometimes it just boils down to age and the heavy city traffic.
Nice pros and cons. Many people don't know how to upshift and downshift smoothly which creates a bit of a neck jar for passengers. Downshifting is especially trick and it's tough for people that don't know how to "blip" the throttle or double clutch. What I love about manuals is that a person has to be constantly engaged with their surroundings and can't easily talk/text on their cell phones. They have to constantly have to pay attention to the car. I also happen to be one of those types that enjoys driving and getting good feedback from a well handling car. Most people will never understand that. Nice unbiased video. I'm really old school so I don't understand what the point of an automatic manual is about. My wife's car is setup that way and I can't get used to not having a clutch, engaging the tranny into neutral and double clutching on a spirited downshifts, especially if I downshift from 4th to 2nd at turns and then get back up speed quickly. I basically only use the auto/manual in her car when going down grades for compression braking. With my cars with regular automatic transmissions, I still use the gears from time to time whereas most people simply leave it in drive. There's a trick to throttling up to downshift an automatic transmission so it's totally smooth and not hard on the drive train or passengers.
I have a Golf 5 GTI equipped with the DSG transmission and as someone who has driven a standard since they were 14, i must admit the DSG is just such a good transmission, i really can’t stress that enough. here in the states people, more particularly men, have a rather closed-minded outlook on the automatic transmission and for a while, so did i, but man, this DSG is something else. however, that isn’t to say it comes without it’s downfalls. in my Golf 5 GTI, the “mechatronic module” which governs the selection of gears in the DSG, failed, pitting my car in limp mode and requiring a tow to the dealer. since i purchased the car out of warranty (not the best idea) the replacement came out to the tune of $2,700 USD. (not very cheap) in addition, the early iteration of VW’s DSG can be jerky sometimes, and is (as a whole) less reliable and requires more maintenance than it’s manual counterpart.
Honestly even when I have to drive through heavy traffic in my mk7 TSI shifting gears is so effortless and natural to me now that it's not a labourus task. So I'll definitely get a manual when I upgrade to the GTI. The only time I think I'd take paddles is for a super car cause those transmissions are unmatched.
+Paul Hojda Manual forever. If my left leg is sore after using the clutch pedal during traffic, that's a clear indication that I need to hit up the gym
One thing they don't really go over is the cost of ownership. Currently shopping for a car and looking at the VW Alltrack. Dealer quoted me $800 USD to service the DSG every 40k miles on top of the $500 regular car service. Really labor intensive and need specialized equipment so us shade tree mechanics cant really do it in our garage. VW Manuals have a "lifetime" fluid fill, but should still be changed at least every 50k and I paid $150 for mine. Sure you'll have to replace a clutch at some point, but I have owned cars with 250k+ miles on the original clutch so they can last if you don't abuse them. Sure you can find deals going to a independent shop but a DSG will still cost more than a regular manual trans in terms of service. I currently have a '12 Jetta TDI with 90k miles on the clock with a manual and every time i call the dealer to schedule service, they ask me what kind of trans I have. I always get a "Your lucky" response back from the service adviser when they go over the price. Personally I'll stick with a manual. Car will be cheaper off the lot and cost of ownership is lower.
I love a good manual, but I will say the dsg has won my heart. Even though manual's can be more fun, they're just not as practical. At least with dsg you can chose to shift, so it definitely beats out a normal automatic.
They identified the key deciding factor between the DSG and manual options. If you spend time commuting with heavy traffic the DSG is going to be the clear winner. If you don't have to suffer through heavy traffic every day, and you can actually enjoy driving on open roads, then I would go with the manual. As a side benefit, manuals are more reliable and cheaper to repair if something ever goes wrong.
You can't use the "automatic is better in traffic" argument when it's a DSG. It has clutches instead of a torque converter, which means you wear out the clutches when crawling in traffic. Aka very expensive repair
I have a mk6 GTI Wolfsburg Edition. It's a DSG. And I wouldn't have it any other way! Put it in manual mode and it's a blast!! With the gearlever or the paddles. Leave it in D and it's so comfortable and will cruise smoothly. The DSG gives the GTI more character. It makes it feel special.
Always be camps on both sides. I drive a manual Mk6 and love it, bit wouldn't begrudge anyone going for a DSG..I may even get a Mk7 eventually with the dual clutch.
I'd actually argue the DSG is much better suited for sweeping highway driving and winding twisty backroads with high speed limits and a lot of elevation transitions then city driving. Manual is better suited for city driving unless we're talking like gridlock rush hour.
I'm in my early 40's and drive a Taxi for a living a Manual shift too, my knee is starting to suffer after years of driving manual cars and i also think it's a age related thing as well that makes me want a DSG turbo diesel for my next car hence the reason i watched this video. I'm just not sure if they are reliable and efficient enough though.
I just recently turned 16 and I got a 2016 gti mk7 manual for my first car. I know this sounds biased, just because it is my first car, but I wouldn't give that car up for an auto tranny any day. I love that car to bits and its so much for fun to drive than an auto(which I've driven a lot of).
I can't tell what causes more flame wars, Mac vs PC or Manual vs Automatic. Nobody ever stops to consider the idea that maybe some people just one more than the other and neither is better than the other because everyone has different tastes.
I don't understand why anyone would go for a DSG in such a car. I grew up with manuals, everyone I know drives a manual. It enhances the driving experience with 200%. I pretty much brake with my clutch pedal, whenever I feel like driving fast I love shifting gears aggressively. In such a car, that's is obviously build for fun, (why else would you pay so much more for a 230HP hot hatch GTI) no one should ever have only 2 pedals. But hey, that's just my opinion.
I test drove both back to back at a dealership and was surprised to find that I enjoyed the DSG car more. Coming from an E36 328i, I found the GTI's clutch too vague and light and the shifter too indirect. That being said, I haven't found any new hot hatch in the GTI's price range to have a shifter or clutch that was significantly better.
The DSG is a really good transmission , i really like it ... but i just like the look of that Golf-ball gear knob on the manual . It's a neat little trinket and I'm a sucker for it .
They're missing the major benefit of DSG transmissions. Part throttle acceleration is drastically increased and turbo lag during which is also reduced. It's difficult to change gears fast and smoothly (also more effort) at low rpm and throttle. It just makes everyday street driving more enjoyable. I love manuals, but the slow gear changes during low throttle and rpms required to be smooth makes everyday acceleration (especially from a standstill to 80km/h) a task for a daily driver. My 2c.
Good Morning! I like your videos very much ... This comparative of Cambio manual vs DSG automatico very good !!! At the start the DSG leaves behind the manual change ... Could you test on a race track to see which one is the fastest? Thank you!!! I await your response ... Congratulations on the channel
If I was using this as a track car and just trying to punch out the quickest times possible, for sure I may go dsg. Or if I had to drive through horrible busy traffic, again DSG would be my option. Aside from that there is no argument for DSG in my opinion. Yes I've driven both DSG and manual. For sure DSG is quicker but that's not what driving skill is to me. The enjoyment comes from learning when to properly shift for the corner, when to blip the throttle on down shifts, engine breaking, complete control of your gearing with throttle inputs. A computer will never be able to choose the right gear in all situation as only you can see what's approaching on the road. Finally, manual is so much more engaging and yeah fun to drive. I've had hours and hours in the DSG and it becomes extremely sterile and lifeless after a while. The feeling of mastering a heel and toe through a roundabout or quickshifting at redline to the next gear rowing the stick can never be beaten for me with a paddle shift or more like a button on the golf.
Awesome video but u had 2 drivers who like different gear boxes so no gearbox / transmission won overall . I say depends where you live and what kind of driver you are . I got the dsg cause I live in the city and its fun cause you get the paddles and shift how you want and not worry about the clutch . In the area a lot of traffic and my friend has the manual and said he wishes he had the dsg for traffic but on open roads stick awesome . But I think dsg way to go . It shifts faster and no clutch in traffic . Manual gives you more control but I like keep my focus on the road with other driver things happen in a split second . For track yea manual all day
i went with the dsg on my mk7. little easier to live with and still fun in its own way. catch a lot of flack from my friends with focus st's, but out on the highway i can stay right beside them with ease.
I understand the traffic situation. But I'd still go with a manual. Just me. and luckily my wife is the same, so no hassle when it comes to selecting a car :)
If people are complaining about something as mundane as "traffic" with the manual, I would be worried about your physical well being (aka, go to the gym)
I like the DSG but the down shifts aren't as smooth and at times hesitant especially in slow traffic. Technically the DSG is a manual transmission without that annoying clutch pedal.
My 09 Rabbit has a DSG. I really like it. When it comes to getting down and dirty, and going thru gears, I just jump on my KTM motorcycle and buzz past everybody.
Try accelerating hard to pass from moderate speed with the DSG: it revs without change in speed - very frustrating. In sport mode, it holds on to 2nd beyond 3.5k revs!
In traffic you keep your foot when stop with the dsg. I have no problem shifting gears in bumper to bumper traffic specially with a manual like the GTI. And personally, autos tend to make me sleepy. Manuals always keep me engaged and attentive. Slight performance advantages is not enough to sway me to go dsg.
Im a manual guy but i can imagen if u live in crowded city where there is alot trafficjams and stuff that u pick the dsg ... i realy hate trafficjams because of the constant clutching
Can't skip gears in the DSG, or Hoon with Clutchcicks etc.; theoretical speaking of course. I feel like that's kind of a little claustrophobic. So if you need to stop at a red light you always need to press the paddle like five times when driving manually in the DSG?!
My last two cars have been autos, the latest a Tiguan with the DSG, I would never go back to a manual and I have never used the paddles on my car, the auto shift is more than adequate.
Can someone please help me to rectify this? Now, we all know plenty of VW's vehicles with DSG transmission have been recalled, and it makes me wonder the reliability and durability of the DSG transmission. So, I went to the VW showroom today to rectify my doubts. The sales person told me that I have to drive the vehicle with DSG transmission in a proper way. Unlike driving a vehicle with a conventional automatic transmission, I can even put the gear in D and my foot on the brake without harming the gearbox. On the other hand, I can't do the same on DSG transmission. If I want to do the same thing on DSG transmission, I would burn the clutches a lot quicker than the scheduled replacement. Can anyone here please tell me how to protect DSG transmission to go faulty? What is the proper ways of driving a DSG vehicle?
salesman doesn't know what he's talking about.. if you put your foot on brake and accelerator, dsg will cut out power from engine (i have a vw dsg).. so actually protects transmission better than a normal auto. in general its not a good idea going to a seller to ask if there really is an issue with their product.. read online forums is ur best bet.. dsg still do have reliability issues, some people expierience them, others dont
So you buy the DSG for the sole use of if you deal with traffic on the daily. For all other categories, the 6spd is the funner and better transmission. 6spd FTW
Do another comparison when it is second hand and in the 15 to 20 year old mark. Manual = Refreshing (clutch, bearing and flywheel) is a quick easy and cheap job. Worn parts are intended to be replaced completely. Can even be done at home. DSG = Rebuild is not only longer it also costs a LOT more. May not even be the same. 2nd hands are cheaper but will not last as long as a refreshed manual and when none are available you need to rebuild.
Honestly, if your argument against the DSG is money in the range of one car payment that you're making on said car for 4 to 6 years, every 40k miles, you should probably be driving a Nissan Leaf. I'm not even trying to play the, "You can't afford it dude!", card, but... if 3 to 4 times over the life of owning the car before you trade it in or sell it you cannot afford a $300 to $350 service you probably shouldn't buy a car in this price range. There are plenty of valid arguments for the manual over the DSG. $1000 in scheduled service over 8 to 14 years of ownership is not one of them.
Have driven most manual. Exeption for a audi s6 with a tip tronic gearbox. And a golf mk 7 1.6 tdi dsg. Must say the only con of a manual is heavy traffic but i just put in free shen standing still. And i can drive on the clutch so still easy. Manuals make better drivers
don't get the manual if you're planning to add any power. You'll need to replace the clutch and there's a risk of crank walk when the soft thrust bearings dislodge
