Vox X Valentino: Where To Draw The Line? 

I too love that and was shocked that not more people picked up on the fact that he is shown in very different lights depending on who he is interacting with. With people equal to him, he is nothing more than, in the lovely words of Velvet, a pissbaby throwing tantrums or being reluctantly cordial when talking to people, he has to play nice, which we could see with Charlie as he can't touch her either. but through the eyes of those below him, like an angel? He is terrifying, like you said; he is an overlord who should be feared, as he lacks empathy for anybody and will use you until he breaks you or loses interest. When people are shocked, Vox could be ok with this. All I can ask is, Why wouldn't he be? It isn't a problem to him, and he only gets mad when Val is going to do anything to demean their reputation and potentially cause problems for the company, and when he sees that, he shuts it down. But that is the thing; he can go toe to toe with Val; he isn't scared of him whatsoever; he is more bored and annoyed when having to handle his tantrums and tempers, but that is just 'another day with Val' as he says. Val isn't scary to him; he is his work partner, and we don't know exactly what their deal is, but it is probably more than that with all the hints and subtle implications from others. Overall, I will always say you can love a character without condoning their actions; liking a character's role in a story does not mean you agree with their morals. The Vees are entertaining villains and ones with purpose, and I think Val serves a good purpose, as Charlie seems to think anybody can be redeemed; all they need to do is choose to want to change. She says everyone makes mistakes and that everyone down here is the same as the ones up there, yet characters like Val or any of the Vees really are poignant to have as it brings up the question: can anyone really change? Should some people be allowed a second chance?

Idk for me, making Valentino the piss baby is really tiring, its a common trope to make bad people and then have them look dumb for the sake of making fun of them, i want a villain that you can’t laugh at, Like for example when alastor cuts off vox’s signal at the end of the song in episode 2 instead of making vox even more angry and seething, they just had him whine and kick his feet, it would’ve added more spice if vox became more vindictive or angry because he was publicly humiliated

Like irl abusers. They cling to what little authority they have but to people around or above them they're a joke.

Valentino being an offkilter whiney child at the start was pretty brilliant. With what little we had seen of him before, he SEEMED to be a stone-cold crime lord, and that’s how they fandom ran with him. But now, seeing and hearing him has remove the power fantasy. We’re being told point blank how controlling abusers are some of the most pathetic and insecure people alive. Without Angel Dust, Valentino reminded me a lot of Gideon Graves. (And not the woobified one from SP Takes Off.)

Exactly, he's a character I love you hate. Love his design and his pathetic petty personality but is a real piece of garbage

Good news! Its a canon thing in my RP WORLD. (he got stabbed by a holy knife and died)

This comment's gonna be real funny if Death ends up being a legit character in this show.

@@TheBleedingAlienmenacing whistle starts playing

@@TheBleedingAlien I actually thought that after commenting lol

Considering he's in hell I think that ship sailed.

I ABSOULUTLEY ADORE VELVETTE but I hate her actions twoards Valentino same goes for Vox but I wish they would act with Valentino and wish they would just beat his ass so ya your absolutely right I honestly live her personality but she’s an even more shitty person then most

I remember in helluva boss not even Osmodius (I think that's how you spell his name) sells "love potions".

​@@bbutler3230which honestly doesn't make sense. He is the sin of lust, and I think we all know what some people might do out of lust...

Yeah not even *the sin of lust* doesn't do that like he said consent is the fun part of pleasure town It makes sense because in all the old books if the devil wanted to make a deal with you he needid your consent Edit: typo

i'm so tired of people who are so chronically online they base their personalities on the franchises they consume that they think it somehow has to align with their morals. This video is a fckin mess and it's disappointing to see a youtuber i like really think that i should be morally questioned because i enjoy exploring toxic FICTIONA!L!!!!!!!!! relationships

Dude I completely agree with that!!! I love Vox, he's a pathetic guy and the reason he's mad is because Alastor rejected him, and honestly that's a pretty great premise. Valentino is just a piece of shit all-around. I don't think I've ever hated a villain as much as I hate him lol.

You are exactly right, Vox is a tv host he is supposed to be charismatic on the outside and they did that well but he’s still evil

I mean it worked with the last wish. Lets just pump it up to Weinstein, and now we have an R rated series or TV-MA.

It’s like Umbridge and Voldemort to me honestly…

yeah agreed

To me it is not about Vox looking better. It is that we never see his actions so there is a disconnect. Alister is just as bad but we have not seen him do evil so it is easy to forget. Val was shown to beat angel dust and people connect to angel dust. So you see the evil. So people see Val as evil. I am not justifying the view, I am just saying that is the way I see it.

Vox abusing his employees? That was never confirmed.

@@shadowhound5113True. My reasoning came from the fact that people like to say the ship is abusive, with Vox being the poor victim. Now don’t get me wrong, it’s DEFINITELY toxic, but that toxicity goes both ways. Val breaks Vox’s phone when Vox doesn’t pay attention to him, and Vox handles Val roughly when he learns about Alastor. Not to mention the mutual condescending attitude towards each other. But even then, they’re not scared of the other. Vox is frustrated with Vals temper, but Val himself doesn’t scare him. Val gets momentarily shocked when Vox gets mad, but he quickly brushes it off. Vox is a lot of things, but he’s definitely not a victim in the relationship. It’s not just that people want to make him seem less bad than he is, it’s the fact that they actively baby him while acting like Val is the big bad when actually they’re equal in all levels except height.

​​@@shadowhound5113 Its not just that we are not shown evil doings of characters. When we are shown those evildoings, its still disconnecting because those are usually sidecharacters we dint care about. But Angel is deeply beloved by fandom, so Valentinoiimmediatly gets justified hate from audience. Vox is strange because I feel like he is framed sympathetically. He loses to Alastor immediatly and almost cried over it, he gets short end of a stick with Val, he manages things, and it makes him. . .less awful.

Tbh I would have liked Vox more if he usurped Alastor’s role as host of hell during the time Alastor’s gone, and that’s another reason why Alastor joined the hotel, to catch up with that relevance and beat Vox back. But hey he’s still fun.

He is like what I would love Striker to be. He could be kinda a loser or arrogant but still treating and serious when he appears. Like that guy, hate the execution.

This is completely right the moment Velvette does smthg fucked up im dropping her as one of my fav characters and she’ll go join Val in the trash

If u find him disgusting, creepy or hard to watch, it means he's doing a good job as a villain

Is he? I am not intimidated by him in the slightest. I don't understand how anyone can even Alastor is very limited in that department.

@@berilsevvalbekret772 Much because of the topic around him and just being horrible. Is like Mahito from Jujutsu.

Yeah, I was going to ask "What's the difference?"

@@valentinkambushev4968If you die on Earth, their Hold over you is over. They also don’t have nearly as much Power as they do in the Show…

Literally Amazon

Millionieres, billionieres and trillonieres

@@Adam-326 Except turns out that only one corporation owns the whole funerual market (no I am not joking.) and well have you read up about AI Generative Technology?

THIS! My dad used to be my and my mom abuser (I think she got more psychological abuse and I got more physical, BECAUSE he was afraid of my mom being strong enough to hit back - even this shows how pathetic he is). He used to have 2 families at one time, abandoned both of his sons and said right in front of one of them he “does not need him anymore, because he has a new family (that was me and my mom)”. He used to shout at mom, he used to call her names. For me he used this kind of soft abuse, when “it is just a joke” phrase comes right after, but create insecurities for the rest of your life. Or could start shouting the second things goes not as he planned. He tried to shoot us one time. When my mom left him, he was looking for us, he was coming to my mom’s store so often to the point, that she had to CLOSE it. Then he was trying to manipulate me into telling him where we bought our new apartment at, so he could find us again. This sound like a real villain of a story people would love to hate. And I remembered him this way for a long time, until I grew up and started thinking about him as a grown-up person: he never had a normal job, let alone career; he hardly made any money for a family, and mostly my grandad and grandma were supporting us financially; he was not even able to find a house to live in, so it was, again, my grandparents job; the only reason why he did not drink was because my mom said they will break up the second he came not sober; he abandoned his sons and felt perfectly normal never meeting them; now he is living in his mom apartment, leading her to live her last years in some old shitty apartment instead of her 3 room apartment she was always taking care of, found some drinking women, as he is, with 2 sons, got for some reason a big ass dog (in an apartment???), and just drink, not work and act as he is some sort of jail aurthotity, just because he knows some (it is a Russian thing). So yeah, my abuser and the person my mom was fearing is a joke. If I met a man like this at my age (23) I will just laugh, because it is pathetic. But at that time for me he was the biggest villain and definition of all my worst nightmares

THIS THIS THIS THIS

Exactly!

That's a really facinating take & I felt that was the intent! Although some of the lines from him like the "FUKIN' PIECE A SHIT" when Angel was going through his voice messages really took me out of it, & ep. 2 in general just wasn't too funny when it came to Val, at least in my opinion. Also, possibly a nitpick Ig, but I think Vox, the one who has hypotic powers to make people do his will (like in ep. 2 when he tells his customers/views to trust him multiple times), should've been the less compitent one; Val has to put more effort into manipulating people like Angel & whatnot, whereas Vox can just use his right eye & BOOM: people do what he wants.

Exactly. His abuse is real, we see how menacing he is through angels eyes, but the show doesn't *respect* him. If anybody is a loser, it's him. He isn't smart, he isn't cool, he's just someone who happens to be good at snatching power from vulnerable people

So like a "Let's be the worst people in existence together!" way?

Crack ship?

​@@Deadpool4presidentLike Disney X Anime?

It's canon Viv confirmed it unless she retconed it

@@DarkSeraph I don't know if she did or not, but I do remember her saying they are in an on and off relationship I think

Catra forever

If it was “31 flavors of toxic” it would be like Baskin-Robbins. 😮 🍦

Even Catra got better with the power of love and actual, self worth and work towards redemption

@@falconeshieldYeah, that final season was her being better. The problem though was that I can imagine many people saw what she did from the seasons before hand on screen and clocked out.

The cat, who got forgiven so early by the fandom, because she is gay (come on, guys, let's not kid ourselves here).

Also didn't Vivz literally showed one time that Valentino cracked Vox's screen?

​@@TheDarkMewtwo996... that's exactly why people like their relationship though. It's fucked up, it's dysfunctional and toxic, they deserve eachother.

@@TheDarkMewtwo996 He did, back when the instagram posts were still up, I believe. That's what I was talking about when I meant Valentino's abuse of Angel Dust seeping into his relationship with Vox.

Yep, this

Abuser, pimp and a sutener.

Like the green heather

It’s like how abuser villains like Count Frollo or Mother Gothel hit a lot harder than Maleficent or Scar. More people have met real life abusers who act like those two villains due to parental and religious abuse, so it feels more personal. Meanwhile, Maleficent and Scar are simply just fun.

@@shirendjorgee9320 Claude Frollo. Judge Claude Frollo, specifically, because the actual Frollo in the novel is the arch deacon really raising Quasiomodo. He's a highly tragic character.

This might be specific as shit, but I'm reminded of Batman TAS where you would mostly just be laughing at Joker or pitying Mr. Freeze, but then the second more minor characters like Rolland Daggett, Ferris Boyle or Lyle Bolton come on screen, your blood just boils, even though the latter has done worse. Its probably because those two are cartoonish and unrealistic, but all three of these feel like actual assholes you could meet.

⁠@@samanthakelly718 I half-agree, though with Joker he seems to be a character that fits multiple versions of that kind of villain. He's entertaining and goofy sometimes, sadistic in the usual saturday morning cartoon way in another, but than also goes an even more messed-up direction either through specifically harming main characters brutally (like with Barbara Gordon or Jason Todd) or whenever he's abusive to Harley Quinn. However, Joker being a mythos character that has been reinterpreted over and over since the '40s is probably why he falls into multiple villain roles.

The song Loser, baby is soo good when you feel bad

As a survivor, i loved the episode. In a weird way it was comforting. I felt seen. Even tho it also wasnt as bad.

I think this is a very important comment. Thank you for sharing it. I know someone who went through similar stuff and they said that while they relate to “poison” they love “Loser Baby” cuz it reminds them of their current kind partner.

@@chichiro8625 how come there are so many SA Victims popping out of vivs fandom all of a sudden??? Either this says a lot of Vivs demographic, or ya‘ll are full of sh*t. Hoping for the former, cus lying about this stuff is a serious matter and hurts people that really went through it.

Everyone's experience is different when it comes to such a subject, as someone who has experienced sa and is now in a healthy relationship, it was hard to watch, but not horrible. It is personally my favorite episode as I am aware that abuse like this is very very common in the industry Angel is in, hence why I do not support that industry at all. I feel like this episode does raise some awareness, with Angel selling his soul being equal too people in the industry who were forced into it or have to do it to get food on the table. It didn't go too far in my opinion and showing how Angel is coping with it can help others understand how a though, pride shell might shelter a very broken and hurt person and that the industry might often look fine and peaceful from the outside, but is internally very messed up. Of course the scenes and subject can be very triggering, depending on what past people have and how recent those negative events are, so I feel like a trigger warning is in place. But I also do think there is nothing wrong with the episode as Angel feelings felt relatable and might raise awareness to people who are not aware how common sa is.

because thers a new very puritanical generation that are so chronically online that they have to align the franchises they consume to their morals. People cant say they dislike a ship they have to come up with moral reason why its wrong and anyone who enjoys it is wrong. I've been shipping for well over 2 decades and honestly tired of 'wow if you ship these people then you are problematic and need to see a therapist'

@@ManzanaDeMuerte That is all true. There are reasons why people can dislike any ship, and yeah, some ships are inherently unhealthy or toxic, but nowadays it seems like people think liking something or finding it interesting has something to do with their morals or that you condone that, when no, some people just like exploring darker themes. This is also why it is so common now that when you like a character, you have to excuse them and find reasons for all their flaws. So many people excuse a character's flaws due to their tragic backgrounds, and that is why they must be forgiven and redeemed. like...no? I have liked many controversial characters before, and I have often gotten flack for it, but I never condone their actions. Due to this, I have come to see how often it is the case that the fandom will forgive and forget and baby a lot of characters and ignore every single one of the things they do, no matter how heinous, because 'poor baby is hurting; he just needs love and a hug' meanwhile they nitpick anyone who dares like a character they don't.

As someone else mentioned there is the purist side of things but to combat that there is the exact opposite of nihilistic edgy teens who try to actually say what they’re doing is good. I genuinely had a convo with a kid I tutor who said that if someone has over three kids they should have the kid be put down for the better of society and no one should be having children in the first place. Like they thought about this very in depth not just like a haha so edgy like this was a convo they had with their friends and think is genuinely good. Like basically the start of incels logic but different? Idk Then there is the other side where if you show a slightly morally grey character they’re evil and if you like them that must mean you’re a (cheater, murderer, rapist, racist, etc) It’s just the black and white thinking and extreme ideals people have and unwillingness to even listen to other people. It’s sad

i do find it amusing how you raise the point of it being complicated and such... one of my big annoyances with Helluva Boss is, hwo they made the Stella-Stolas thing so simple black and white. "Stella is evil, always has been evil and has always enjyoed tormenting stolas!"... It's boring and really makes some of the stuff in, say, Ep 2, feel... a bit weird. Stella seems to not have made any effort to keep her treatment of Stolas a secret in front of others. So it is weird that Octavia doesn't know abotu it and blames her dad so much, while for Stolas it feels weird in Ep. 2 that he is at such a loss of words for what is wrong between him and Stella and doesn't just say "your mother has been abusing me before you were even born."

As much as I agree I still see this and feel its forced, for some writing problems, I just don't see them as a thing beside getting money

Well now I'm curious!

Story?

@@egg_bun_ about what?

@@valentinkambushev4968 what the story is called

@@egg_bun_ It's called "Indzhe", but I don't know if there is an English translation.

I looovvee his design, his coat is beautiful, he doesn't deserve such a beautiful coattttt >-

It makes perfect sense to me that his design is impeccable. After all, honeyed words coming out of a pretty face is probably how he gets everyone he abuses to fall for his bullshit in the first place. I also love the dichotomy of how we see him through Angel's pov (oppressive, overwhelming force chaining him to a horrible life) vs Vox's pov (out of touch man child). It's kinda reflective to how irl abusers tend to be monsters who no one but their victims actually get to see, and people from the outside looking in have a completely different view of them, or just kind of delude themselves out of thinking about how bad this person's actions really are because of misplaced loyalty. Of course in the specific instance of Val, Vox clearly knows everything he's doing to Angel, and that sucks, but yanno what I mean...

⁠@@mostlyimpulsive3462 but that’s exactly like the real world where many/most men (and maybe people in general, but especially men) don’t care to see sех wоrk/pimріng as as horrifically ехploitative as it obviously is. Not just because a lot of men do or would want to (if they’d were wealthier) “use” prоstituted women (and ofc men to a lesser extent), but even if they don’t they generally don’t care very much about the plight of “crаck whоres”, since they, yk, think they’re just a mess who probably brought everything on themselves?

@@mostlyimpulsive3462i wouldn’t say he has a pretty face…

agreed.

I 100% agree. My only real problem with this whole situation is that viv and spindlehorse seem to want Val to be a fun likable character, one good enough to want to root for them and their relationship. If Val was only ever going to be portrayed as a bad guy who you can still enjoy the character of BECAUSE they are a bad person, that’s fine, but trying to make people like a character as if they are a good person when they assaulted a main character, violently and graphically on screen, it just feels a bit gross. Like they can’t do both.

Do you think there's a chance Valentino won't be as goofy after ep 4? Like maybe him being potrayed as somewhat likeable before the reveal of how abusive he is was a red herring or smth. Idk 🤷‍♀️​@Subterranean_sebastian

I feel like the difference is realism. Darth Vader and Cruella De Vil do not actually represent something people are likely to have been victims of in real life. Valentino IS real life.

@@Subterranean_sebastianHaving seen the first 4 episodes, I really havent seen even the slightest implication that Angel and Val are a good couple. Val being a somewhat funny character is no different than Jafar who also tried to SA Jasmine. Villains can be funny while also being complete monsters, heck one of if not the best villain in fiction is known as the clown prince of crime.

During Angel's song where he went out on the balcony and saw Val and Vox talking, Vox was smiling at Val but when he saw Val's attention moving over to Angel, he got jealous and disappeared. Vox is just jealous of Angel and hates him for that, I don't think he cares about him getting abused. Of course, I could be wrong but that's more in line with what the fandom knows about the relationships so far.

@@aqcchi1961how i see it is vox obviously doesn’t sympathize with angel dust, that much is clear, but its also not like he approves of it personally, all vox cares about is his brand and his technology advancements, he wont go out of his way to care or do anything about what val does, but that doesnt mean he likes what val does either, he only tolerates him because it helps his cause, which is still evil obviously but i dont think its outta jealousy

I don't think he cares for what happens to the victims. He seems to care more about whether or not Val does his job and doesn't get distracted with his current obsession/money cow. In the deleted instagram images that confirmed that Val and Vox had a relationship it also shows that Val is abusive to him at times, since his screen was actually cracked (although those images aren't canon anymore). So at some point he was meant to be in a similar position but now from what we see he just finds Val annoying when he doesn't have full control of his literal slave so he'd rather not get involved in any actual work stuff when Angel is around since Val is obsessed with him to the point of wanting to shoot up the hotel where the daughter of Lucifer lives just to make a point. If they show Val being abusive to him too people will obviously like Vox and hate Val more but until then we have an abuser and the bf who encourages him to do things if it means he gets to be productive faster.

@@j.a.r.5974 Actually, we saw Val being abusive towards Vox already but it's more subtle than with Angel. First, when he threw the glass at him and Vox stepped to the side to avoid and then Val grabbing Vox's phone and throwing it at his screen till the phone was in pieces and it was strong enough to make Vox's screen turn to the side on impact. It's true Val was not angry AT him but hurt him in his rage.

@@j.a.r.5974 man this is such a good argument to have! Does Vox in courage Vals abuse twords his workers, or does he just ignore it? My headcanon is that Vox likes the wealth he, Velvet, and Val make, so, as long as Val makes money, he cruely ignores victums like Angel. He doesnt care who Val hurts, just so long as he doesnt involve him. Which is so frikin twisted! Though i can see the other theory that Vox activly works with Val, taking part in abusing workers like Angel. (Man, I really hope Val gets..THE….SHT knocked out of him soon omg!)

Sure be awful and horrible but be entertaining about it basically XD

The best example I can think of is Harry Potter Voldemort was a literal wizard nqzi, but who does the fandom hate more? Dolores Umbridge, an evil principal that was present for only 1 of the 7 books 😂😂😂 Voldemort actually has a lot of ships where the "I can fix him!" mentality is the main theme

…Scrappy Doo

The war crimes are fictional while my annoyance is very real.

Granted he don’t know much about velvet and they don’t got a reason to care about her outside her character she’s not attached to the main cast

@@WeebGuru6He mentioned that in the previous video he hopes Velvette doesn’t get forgotten since she’s the only member of the 3 Vee’s who doesn’t have an attachment to the main cast.

Same thing could be said with Bakugou’s redemption for his decade of bullying towards Deku and the infamous “swan dive” comment never being addressed again in the main story because he’s both just a teenager and with how Deku looks up to him and doesn’t seem to hold any grudge, and it’s easier to swallow. Along with the character growth of course

It's why villians like Catra get alot of flank too to this day. Her spiral in depression and lashing out at loved ones while getting lost in devouring work (conquering and leading troops in her case) probably hit close to home compared to other beloved villians like Omniman and Azula. Yes even her, you don't get to meet alot of genius evil 14 year old princesses in your life. And I know she's finally getting redemption because she's still 14 years old at the end of ATLA, that's literally the only reason apart from fan love. You'll probably never meet the two above, but you can meet an unhinged Catra or Jinx irl. Zuko is the crossroad between those two paths in terms of story writing and I'm glad S5 FINALLY gave way to Catra's proper redemption arc, though it took a crossarc hyped big bad outsider from Mara's time to finally push that button. Guess what: after the events of S3 you're supposed to hate Catra. You're supposed to stop rooting for her redemption. S4 Catra is at her worst because she felt she lost everything and had only the war to focus on (like a csetisn sparkly princess did the same to handle her grief regarding Angella) That line was crossed and she was clearly heading for a Vader death. Which she did. After saving Glimmer, her prime foil, to make sure Adora doesn't die in vain, to in her eyes to do one good thing. Everything post the healing scene was uncharted territory in terms of on screen writing. It could've failed but boy did it work, and Catra was at least given the kindness to not talk to a non possessed Scorpia or Mermista before the finale. As for Angella the long hyped movie would probably address it. I don't think Catra is even aware the portal made Angella 'locked' between universes. Basically dead. That thread keeps SPOP alive as it can't close properly without that ever being addressed.

​@@toadlord8594Deku finally stopped being a dick? I didn't get into MHA because of him and I usually love hard to love characters. Not villainous just hard to love.

​@@falconeshield Deku was never a dick💀

@@falconeshield You meant BAKUGOU stopped being a dick, not Deku man.

I mean it's less want to avoid, more so he doesn't care about hurting people. He does call up people just so Valentino can kill them for fun, but he's not getting any joy nor disgust from it.

Vox doesn’t WANT to hurt people cause he made himself a brand and has to keep a image for his ‘consumers/viewers’. He wants to be viewed positively and respected, and he knows he’ll lose all that if he runs around killing and making an ass of himself. In other words, he’s pragmatic and has some level of self control (unless it’s towards Alastor). He’s the literal ‘face-man’ of the Vees, and tries his best to keep his cohorts in line for the benefit of their brand/image; other than that, he doesn’t give a shit about what they do, and is even willing to abuse/kill employees himself. Like Sarcastic Chorus said, he’s a manipulative/greedy CEO type, that only cares about his business, and is willing to do/use whatever to stay on top (even if it means faking benevolence).

“Pull my Devil Trigger”

It’s also funny bc as far as things go in the real world… he’s just a standard pimp. He’s far from exceptionally evil or abusive or exploitative - there are SO many men exactly like him in reality. And so many people don’t even seem to realise it

I love the Vs as villains, they're literally my faves in the show. The way they bounce off each other creates a comedic trio that's only possible because they are equals. So watching them interact with each other is fun, but when they meet their victims they're menacing. People say it's badly handled, but it makes total sense, these horrible people are horrible and fun together, as comrades, but they're still horrible, we just can't see it unless they interact with the people they're supposed to be horrible to, that's the entire point. Hence why Valentino seems like a total idiot when we see him with Vox, versus how scary and disgusting he is when Angel Dust shows him to us. That's the problem with media puritanism. They're all terrible people AND fun villains, but two of them haven't been shown explicitly participating in horrible acts the viewers have been through or are sensitized on, while the other has, but it's kind of hypocritical, since they're still the same amount of horrible. This is a long ramble and really all I'm trying to say is that I love/hate all of the V's EQUALLY

@@themasterofpotatoes9475 I agree with everything you've said. I also think it's stupid to say "it's badly handled" because in order to comment on a subject you need to.... Y'know, actually mention it. Hazbin shows the horrible situation and doesn't shy away from it. Both creating a threatening villain and not beating around the bush with forced "nuisance".

The fact that the Vee's are the only well-written characters in the entire show is baffling. Vox has more depth than 90% of the main cast, Velvette is shallow but has stronger standing, and Valentino is the most fledged out character thusfar.

@@FizzieSprite what? Are you trolling lol

Same😭

WAIT WHERE??

they are in on and off relationship, they are not canon

Yes so does people who explored friends with benefits. Sex aint love..

I'm waiting for the moment Charlie realises she has to be aggressive sometimes and commit to get shit done (which, despite the show's breakneck pace, I feel is one of the things they'll be keeping going for a while...or at least until the end of the season) and Val is the main candidate for the character that tips her over right now. It would be interesting to see her kill him and how that would affect her character (the owner of a redemption hotel committing murder would definitely be something used against her and something that would deeply affect her, even if it is Val), but I could also see her trying to find a way to be sneaky about it and find a loophole. Seeing Val be utterly ruined and losing his power would be a satisfying defeat.

YES THIS!!!!

⁠​⁠@@AllyGatorAnimator Nah cause imagine if Val looses all his power/wealth and the other Vees just abandon him because he serves no use to the team anymore seeing how powerless he is. Not to mention Val losing everything would not look good on the Vees image so they would probably disassociate themselves from him. Which can happen in real life if someone were to do something bad but in this case Val just lost power.

@@CatIguess Imagine him being kicked out now he's useless and he no longer has any protection during the extermination (I'm not actually convinced that Vox's security systems will do much but still, it's one less step between him and the exorcists). Just like that, Val goes from being the one holding all the cards to the one with nothing who has every reason to be afraid. We'll have to wait and see, but either way I'm sure they're building up a satisfying defeat somewhere down the line for him.

My thoughts exactly, I get why Angel was worried for her safety when she confronted Val but I feel like Val really couldn't do sh-t to her. She's the princess of hell and he's just an overlord. If for some reason she needed, she could definitely contact her parents to kick his a-s for her. So, really, Val isn't that much of a threat to Charlie.

you were shocked people hated a rapist?

​@@irumara I,too, wanted to kick this f!@$!@ in the balls after watching "Addicted," but I was surprised by how quickly the fandom started to want him dead. Usually, that takes a day or so, not a few seconds.

I am kinda relievied that is the case. Internet can be really weird sometimes.

@platinumg.8614 Yeah, I was expecting people who would go all "Harder daddy!" on Val, but I was presently surprised.

​@@valentinkambushev4968for once internet gave the appropriet reaction 😊

How do we know Vox is the top?

@@wwandmitski I actually meant it in personality, but I remember Vivz saying in an old chat that Val and Vox switch a lot in bed and Vox tends to want to be the top one. But idk if that still applies. Also when Sam, one of the crew, drew Val and Velvette, calling them “top bitches”, Vivz commented that it was a “fun choice of words”, implying that Val is very probably a bottom.

@@aloysesmindscape6070 ohh alr thank u :))

this is what fandom is like now. Whatever FICTIONAL character you enjoy has to align with your real world morals. If you think a villain is cool then that means you're a rape apologist.

It's like people forget that these characters are all some flavor of shit person (except Charlie maybe) and are literally in hell

Isn’t that the point? They are villains they will have messy relationships. I personally would love to see their interactions more(bc everyone does have family no matter how terrible) if they die it’ll be their fault yea(they kinda all suck loll) but that’s to be expected of a villain

Honestly, it's good that it's messy. What Vox and Valentino have is not a functional relationship and it's not portrayed as such. And it's OK , it's there to contrast with the main cast, and the good relationships, like the one between Charlie and Vaggy ; that's what villains are for, to contrast and highlight the main characters.

Him*

Him, Angel's a man. He's just a very pretty man

“wHy aRe yOU aLL wOMEN?” - Niffty that one time lmao

I like you

It's stupid how sensitive people get over him tbh

​@@kursedkicden5448It's really not. If you've never been a victim, you can't talk. Hell, even if you have, you can't tell other people what they're allowed to be triggered about.

@@starsiadraws yes i can

@@creamley1851I mean you *can* but it means no one will want to be near you. No one’s stopping you from being a petty, dismissive, and rude person, you’ll just have to deal with social consequences of that.

@@kursedkicden5448Straight-up fax, It's cringe.

I hope this becomes/is real. She IS the Princess of Hell, and Vaggie earlier in the episode told her to start putting her foot down more. I think that definitely should’ve pushed Charlie to do what she wanted. But, Charlie might do it once Angel is finally ready to agree and open up to Charlie. Which, I really hope happens because I’ve always wanted Charlie and Angel Dust to become close friends 🥹

why do you think no one want's Charlie to make a deal with Alister, she is like a gun you have to give her ammo wait until she's warmed up and turn off her safety Alister is already powerful he has a few people under him he doesn't need to rely on them for power but if he got some of Charlie's power

Don’t think even royalty could break a magical contract, no matter from whom. Lucifer wouldn’t need to tell Charlie not to take contracts from other demons if they could be broken at will.

She could probably crush him like a bug. And perhaps force/scare him into annulling the contract. But I am not sure she could unilateraly declare it to be void.

I’d wager that at most, Charlie could co-opt the contract - she can’t return Angel’s soul to him directly, but she could own it instead. But I don’t think Charlie would want that as anything but a short term solution - and she’s right not to, because Angel’s soul should belong to him. But maybe the threat of doing so would make Val cancel the contract - he’s losing Angel regardless, but if Angel owns himself there’s a chance he’d sign it over twice. (There isn’t. But Val, being so hotheaded, could probably be persuaded of it.)

vox x alastor is the epitome of that shitpost that's like "you should be addicted to shutting the fuck up" "you wanna fuck me so bad it makes you look stupid" 💀

It's canon bitches

LMFAO EDWARD 😭😭 fr

I love watching these type vids after smtm becomes canon 😭😭

It's also true for a lot of actual abusers. They're usually not genius master manipulators.

The are friends with benefits sadly according to Viv.

Speaking of Marvel, I like how The High Evolutionary is pretty much seen as the best villain and is also VERY HATED by fans for his abuse of Rocket and general obnoxious behaviour. And many were satisfied to see his downfall. To the point that people wanted him to be a Kang variant and/or saw him as a better Kang than the actual one (who gets killed very easily by Ant-Man). There were people who even wanted Kang to be recast with Chukwudi Iwuji (the actor for High Evolutionary) back when controversies about Jonathan Majors came about.

@@devofficialchannel oh I can imagine that. A very personal villain can be satisfying to see the person they wronged get to enact some form of retribution. Heck, up until she tried to sacrifice baby Nathan, Maddie Pryor’s tenure as the Goblin Queen is something a lot of people got behind because so many had wronged her. I also think the High evolutionary already had some hate coming in as he’s related to the whole Quicksilver and Wanda not being Magneto’s kids debacle. For me, I wanted Kang to be a Longshot villain. Someone Longshot could get ratings for on his show if he can beat him… before losing to Mojo yet again.

And as a survivor myself, I hate seeing people think that Val is anything other than a rapist just because he was seen kissing Vox that one time. We also see him have sex with Angel several times and it doesn't change anything. Val is unshipable and that's it

They were already one? At least according to those old Instagram posts (they’re not canon, but still).

@@SweetOrangeGirl NAH PROLLY I JUST NEVER KNEW????? I ALWAYS SAW THE V'S AS LIKE BUSINESS PARTNERS 😁😁😁 yk like nothing more but makes sense that they banging x]

I could be totally wrong about this, but I'm almost certain Viv confirmed they were in a relationship. If I remember correctly, Valentino is also abusing Vox, but I'm not so sure whether or not that actually was ever the case, or if it currently is the case. Either way, fuckin' hate Val, but he's a great villain for the story.

@@crow464 i see and thanku for explaining it to me 🙏 im not that very updated on the things confirmed by viv so its appreciated

@@togeslover He def is! Glad to help ❤️❤️

I agree, while I wouldnt call it well written, in drama we all usually want to see the story take us to fucked up places, to explore shrouded corners of our minds that make us feel that mixture of shame and awkwardness and grief. So far this feels like the only plot line that scratches at that

@@mkm1349 Yeah...

bro is literally a flat screen in a suit

​@@stuffynosepatrolstill

ya know, the first paragraph made me think about Crimson. Remove his homophobia angle from Exes and Ohs, and would it change anything about the Episode (except for removing two gags)? Would it make him likeable in any way? Nope. It feels like it was tacked on, honestly.

It depends on the portrayal.

People (esp in this fandom) think that separating fiction from reality is some adaptable opinion they can just switch up on depending on situation. It's pick and choose: They personally approve of a villain and when disagreed with go "y'all are so sensitive, they're fictional!", yet declare it a universal experience to loathe an evil character they dislike - but If YOU don't their own logic suddenly doesn't apply anymore and you're accused of condoning/executing those bad actions yourself irl. God forbid a character being bad through actual-down to the core-rotten morals who doesn't fall under the usual "I end peoples lives hehe!!" category. I'm a huge fan of villains myself including the charming and likable goofballs, but those downright awful ones? They create a tension that never fails to keep me at the edge of my seat

@@sft.kiyoko5922 I know and me too, terrefying villians like for example, Slade from the original Teen Titans, are great aditions, he was threating, the moment he was on the screan, you knew things were going to get serious, he was cruel, egocentrical, smart, manipulative and skilled, I think everyone can agree he was a very interesthing character on his own and a terrific villian, but as much as we love these villians, when they are defeated, we also understand why and that yeah, they had it coming, as we know his actions were terrible and didn't regret doing them (being proud of them actually and enjoying it)...yet somehow now, some people defend them as if they were the poor victims of their story...that is when I have an issues, like they turn a blind eye on everything they have done...

They rlly are pretty cute, ignoring what they’ve done.

There was no ship according to Viv. They are friends with benefits. Toxic relationships.

@@Featheryfaith7 yea I know your right they are just toxic friends with benefits I said that comment before I saw the Q and A :]

Yeah only difference is Mahito is dastardly evil and Valentino is a Weinstein 💀💀💀

Yea their hateability levels are probs the same but for me personally I love Mahito despite being a bitch because he has a carefree “don’t give a shit” attitude, but isn’t pathetic till the very end. I think the fact that Valentino’s most horrible crimes are sexual in nature and it is shown explicitly how much it affects Angel as the victim just makes it more real and disturbing since Valentinos definitely exist in real life, while Mahitos don’t. I guess that makes it much harder for me to like him. I don’t think it is bad if someone does. Horrible characters can be entertaining and thought provoking and I think that it is important to respect everyone’s limits.

@@yobpinky1972 I agree with u but I also its a component of people putting too much of themselves in the scene

Except Mahito is like 7 months old and a manifestation of the worst feelings of humanity (so it's understandable that he has nothing but disdain for humans and has a very simplified childish view of them) and doesn't SA his victims. Valentino is a grown ass human who understands human morality and is abhorrent anyway. They're not comparable at all, even with how the audience is meant to feel about them.

It's also a good set up for character development.

I agree. And since velvet is the youngest overlord, and obviously the last to join.. their relationship obviously has existed in the past

99% of what you said are your personal headcanon not canon Val is a good boyfriend? First of he is no one's boyfriend. Second of all there is nothing that suggests he is good. And third of all, there is nothing that suggests he treats Angel because he isn't "worth it" Also Idc if you like him, he doesn't have any personality other than being an abuser. I didn't see anything funny about him or anything complex. He doesn't have a personality

@@iammemys2213 Alright, way to be a downer. We didn't see the Vees enough to fully get a grasp on them, so there is a lot of speculation naturally. The fact they'll be more major characters in season 2 means we will get some more insight though. So again, I'm trying to apply potential logic and analysing scenes to make assumptions. This is where me saying Val sees Angel as 'less' than someone like Vox comes from. Seeing the difference in how he treats Angel, his employees, Nifty, compared to how he acts around Vox, Velvette, Charlie. He acts angry and violent, and yells a lot, at the most irrational things, but Vox and Velvette yell at him and Vox both outright mocks him ('that's why they pay you the big bucks') and his industry ('this is better than s€x') and the most we get is a miffed look. Or how he keeps at eye level with Charlie, while constantly looming over Angel. There is a clear indication he treats demons in power differently than demons not in power. I've recently been told that Vivzie said Val and Vox arent dating, which my bad, but you could have fooled me with the way they act around each other. There is definitely something going on though. You dont just happily dance with and then tongue kiss your business partner. But until the show (and not outside source like a stream, because regular watchers wont see that) clears this up it technically falls up to interpretation. Lastly, yeah, I do find Val as a character funny and interesting. He has some good moments that genuinly made me laugh. He is also interesting to analyse (How did he become so powerful, how did he get that deal with angel, how did the vees become a group, why is he like this, wtf is wrong with him) and while I do like him as a character, I would also like to see him smash face first into the pavement. I fully get if you dont like Val, that's completely understandable. However, reducing his character to one thing is doing the show a disservice.

Your username and pfp are so real

@@TheGhostBoast OMGOGMG TY 😛😛