As i biker, I'm less concerned about going slow in legitimately built up areas, but the gradual neutering through councils turning 60s into 50s, 50s into 40s, is the thing that really dials down the fun on some sensible but spirited riding in all the best places for doing it, and thats been happening for years already.
I agree 20 is OK for housing estates or very tight village roads but overall to have a 20 limit is a daft. Though we have to remember politicians are morons, not one of them would survive in the real world of work.
there is no overall 20 mph speed limit. some roads that were 30 have dropped to 20 but mostly in housing estates or commercial areas. a lot of 30's still are. You do have to have your wits about you because some of the signage isn't clear but overall I have found no noticeable effect on journey times. There are bonuses too, when the traffic is travelling at 20 you have time to pull out of side roads where before you may have been waiting a lot longer for a gap.
I’ve lived in Wales all my life, this ridiculous speed limit is totally unnecessary, I have to get to work every day and a lot of the roads which are now 20mph are totally open roads with barely a house close to the road never mind a school I believe this so called government of ours is deliberately targeting motorists. As a biker myself I do enjoy a nice ride when I get the opportunity especially in Brecon
Morning Matt, from South Wales! I drove down from Scotland 3 weeks ago, where they’ve had 20mph zones for years by the way. (Twenty’s plenty as it says on the signs there). Anyway, I drove down through Wales as I hate motorways and,like you, I was in a 50mph zone in England, came around a bend into Wales and it changed to 20mph, hard on the brakes! There’s not many people doing 20mph in this area, my mothers street, narrow, has turned into a rat run with some cars doing at least 40mph if not more, with those effing annoying exhausts that backfire! How can they police this in full? They can’t. They don’t have the resources. In Canada, where I lived for 18 years, they have a 30kph, 18mph, outside schools, I 100% agree with this. As for the political state in this country, the whole of the UK, it’s the worst of my lifetime, 55 years. Blatant corruption, such ineptitude it’s unbelievable, zero accountability, and Hobson’s choice who to vote for, with more of the same with a different party in power. Bark busters for the colder weather? Have a great weekend.
Hi Jer, totally agree that around schools or very populated areas that 20mph is totally fine. I live in a 20 zone myself as I’m very close to a primary school (no one takes a blind bit of notice of the speed limit though) It’s all the average speed cameras that have gone up that’s going to catch people out. I suspect the revenue from speeding tickets will be far outweighed by the loss the tourism industry is going to suffer. But it’s still an enjoyable place to ride if you’re careful near the towns/villages 🙂
I've holidayed in Wales many times and have riden around Wales for years, and i have to say i won't be venturing into Wales any more, I'll stick to the peak district,the lakes and surrounding areas
@@hunterrider349 I’ve been here for 3 weeks now, and you wouldn’t know there are 20mph roads. If you like Wales you’ll be missing out for no real reason. 👍
I find myself agreeing with you Matt, you’re 💯 right about the speed limits and politicians self interest being thrust onto the general public. Basically I share your valued opinion. Top man Matt✅
@@ClassicRides - I llive in Wales and since the 20mph BS speed limit most drivers and bikers are ignoring it and if anything most are driving at 30-40mph and most are now ignoring the old 20mph schools zones - 20mph BS limit will if actually implemented heavily will cause far more pollution and much higher RTA and pedestrian accidents - plus when ever the traffic is backed up, if you filter to the front a large percentage of the time it is the front car to scared to over take the cyclist he is stuck behind for fear of getting a ticket. A bad time for cyclists, lots or worried scared faces on bicyclists faces now.
Well put and I mostly agree, Matt, especially politicians using/abusing/pandering to emotional arguments despite actual reasoning. But as for "Wales is pretty much as it was" my lorry-driving brother-in-law wouldn't agree. He's having a nightmare anywhere near a town these days. Apparently studies done by the government themselves suggested the economic cost of the new speed limits was reckoned in the billions over the coming years. I can only imagine the negative health impact from that loss of income/earnings/revenue to already struggling families will far exceed the slight reduction in chance of injury from urban road accidents. How much good could billions in the economy do for Welsh people? How much damage will billions lost do? But, yeah, why let research, studies, stats, maths, science and common sense influence policy when emotional virtue signalling apparently wins votes, eh? Disclaimer: I'm no climate change denier and the world definitely ignored the issues for decades and needed waking up, but the recent years of ridiculous emotional panic is set make things worse, not better. I hope some sensible moderation is achieved in coming years, but I won't hold my breath.
There’s no climate change denying from me either, but what we’re being fed is so off target is unbelievable. I think for me, going through Welsh towns has always been a slow affair so it didn’t seem that different to me, but my opinion on that might change the more I visit Wales. The rest of roads seem unaffected, to me anyway. I think we’re all awaiting just one, sensible and reasonably minded politician we can get behind, just one will do so we can get back to some sense of normalcy 😁
Hi Matt, all valid points are made, and I can't disagree. It will, however, affect the Welsh economy. I go all over Wales both on my motorbike and to work occasionally, and my experience is not great. The travel time added because of the 20mph is costly, and we have increased our price of work to reflect this to Welsh clients. This, unfortunately, has put my friends off and me off going for our motorbike weekends. Out experiences in Wales and of the locals have always been warm and welcoming. It is a real shame that this is going to be so negative for them. Keep up a great channel and a balanced and fair perspective.👍
Thanks Jonathan, I think you won’t be alone in finding other places to go. Perhaps since the Welsh Gov don’t want to listen to their constituents, money will talk next summer when their tourism industry takes a hit, maybe then they’ll reconsider their ideas.
I was driving up to Wrexham from Shropshire and the speed limit went down to 20mph on parts of a main road just because its a built up area but it was a main road not a smaller residential road. It was like all the cars were in a traffic jam. A motobike bombed past at 50 mph as if in objection to it all.
A well balanced view Matt! Although I agree with 20mph zones near hospitals, schools, etc but a blanket reduction is not well thought out. Did the powers consider that people are going to be constantly looking at their speedometers rather than the road? Also for the environmental angle vehicles are going to be driving around at high revs in first or second gear and take longer going through built-up areas creating more pollution.
Yes it seems a very poorly constructed policy. It's hard to believe that anyone who's been through an education system could come up with something with so little thought put into it.
I’ve noticed an increase in congestion in welsh towns. Also I’m surprised nobody talks about the increased pollution as 20 miles an hour is definitely third gear in a car with increased revs than 30 in fourth surely.. Also a lot of 60 miles limits straight to 20s. When I’m on bike I’m really watching cars there will be a lot of rear end shunts.
Hi John, I did do a section on the pollution aspect but the audio was so bad I had to cut it out😁. Totally agree that there’s likely to be more rear end shunts with people slamming brakes on, so I don’t think the “we’ll save the health service money by fewer people being knocked down” argument is going to pan out.
As a recently retired bike cop we were always taught to use 3rd gear (car or bike) when going through built up areas. Reason being it made the car/bike more responsive but crucially it stopped you from creeping over the 30mph limit which is what happens if you're in 4th. As for the "more pollution" side of things, I can't say one way or the other, though my feelings are in 3rd gear at 30mph the car is operating at its optimum. As for 20mph.....who knows.
@@ClassicRides Hi. The Welsh Government said they "think" it will be pollution neutral. They based this on a random assumption that some people will walk and cycle and therefore less cars on the road. So that means that the other side of the equation is they know that there is more pollution driving around in 2nd or 3rd gear. There will only be neutral pollution effect therefore if people leave their cars at home. In Wales that is very difficult to do because of the geography and poor alternative transport solutions.
@@SuperNictasticyou’ve done more research on the pollution aspect than me 😁. I suspect the Welsh Gov is guilty of doing the same thing as the UK in assuming that everywhere is the same as the well serviced capital cities that they live in, forgetting as you say, that in the vast majority of the country motorised transport is the only way to get around.
Had an utterly glorious biking holiday in Wales near Builth Wells and to be honest speed has never been the attraction for my second incarnation as a biker. The little twisty minor roads are glorious. The closest thing I know to free flying that I have ever experienced!
Totally agree, you'd have to be riding like a madman to find the national limit on those twisty backroads limiting. I just don't think the new limits on towns was necessary and may be a huge own goal for Wales.
I totally agree with your summing up of how the default 20 mph limit came into being. It is the consequence of having weak politicians who then instruct left wing ecozealots in the civil service and local government to enact ill-considered policies. What this limit has done is ensure I won’t return to Wales. The Principality is infested with speed cameras and I don’t want to stand the chance of copping a fine or losing my licence for a holiday.
Wales isn't a principality. And no one seems to mention the fact that local councils have the authority to change 20's to 30's if they deem necessary and enough people want it to change
I will no longer go to Wales. I don't need the stress of trying to keep below 20, which effectively means riding at 15 to 18, to make sure that I don't get a ticket. I don't want to have my eyes glued to the speedo instead of the road and my surroundings. It is much easier to keep below 30. Also, I am against this constant attack on personal transport, in the name of saving the planet, which is just whitewash to cover the true agenda of control. Driving/riding at 18mph is less fuel efficient than doing so at 28 in ICE vehicles. Neither do I buy into the safety bullshit, which taken to its extreme means that nothing moves in pedestrian areas. The whole affair stinks, and there has to be consequences for such terrible governance. The sad truth is that this country (UK) is in a very sorry state politically, and it is digging itself deeper into the mire by the day. It makes me very sad to witness the kingdom's decline and I fear for its ultimate end. These are gloomy words, yes, but who will step forward to put the brakes on?
@@ClassicRides My life is nearing its end now and I don 't have time to wait. I have to make the most of what is left, and unless something radically changes, Wales does not feature.
Excellent piece, Matt. Far more measured and thoughtful than many other previously enjoyable motorcycle channels who simply threw their toys out of their pram and probably lost subscribers as a result. Anyway, I think that in a couple of years people will have got used to the changes and think nothing of them. We shall see.
Thanks Nigel, I think you’re right that it will take a while for the kinks to get ironed out and for people to get used to it, just a shame there’ll likely be a downside to people visiting for a while and then genuinely accidentally speeding in new 20 zones.
I’m sorry, I don’t agree. Those who are outwardly upset are absolutely right… it’s inexcusable! I went to wales recently. I drive to the conditions of the road. These stupidly low speeds on sometimes wide roads with houses set back is un-instinctive. The thought of getting a fine for doing 25mph in, what used to be 30mph, is insane. Criminalizing an innocuous act is nothing short of evil. It’s the thin end of the wedge. The authorities are demonizing personal transport and slowly brainwashing people to thinking it is antisocial. Whether it be speed, pollution or whatever other nonsense they decide, they are messing with our personal freedoms.
@@andrewlucas6214100% agree....what boils my piss even further is that "some" people are cheering on their own demise. If you think these restrictions are going to stop with your motoring only then I have a bridge to sell you🙄people need to wake the heck up. Just wait until they implement UBI and CBDC's and what you can and can't put into your own body in the way of "food" etc etc. It's all on the WEF site. All there in black & white yet many seem oblivious to it all. You will own NOTHING and be HAPPY. Thats their very own slogan ffs.
I live and deliver for a living around Wales & this ridiculous limit has added so much time to my day that I'm struggling to make all my deliveries. I have telematics on my wagon so have to stick to all limits religiously but there are many that are taking risks. Everyday I see cars overtaking on residential streets & it's only a matter of time before someone turning left from out of their driveway or a side turn has a head on collision. These cars have to be exceeding the old 30mph limit to overtake a car or a bigger vehicle like my wagon to get back in quickly. The thought of what could happen is terrifying. Also when walking my dog it takes ages to wait for a train of vehicles to pass so that I can cross the road only for another train coming the other direction to stop me crossing. Pedestrians are gonna take chances to cross & if someone is impatiently overtaking then it's possibly going to be a worse impact than if the limit was still 30. As a motorcyclist myself it doesn't really affect me until I'm approaching a junction & a vehicle waiting will have longer to make up their mind to pull out which they invariably do. Mark Drakeford should rethink this draconian enforcement his forced upon us. Apparently Scotland are going to do the same in 2025 but are monitoring how Wales manage. England are also watching to do the same but with a general election looming they won't propose it till after a new government is formed.
No doubt the experience of living with the new limits and just visiting for a day on a motorbike are quite different. I can’t imagine that Scotland or England watching the Welsh disaster unfold will be so keen to do the same, especially once the financial consequences hit home next year. It’d be an easy ride to power for any party making the motorist the centrepiece of their campaign.
Living in Wales I have noticed since the new 20mph limits have been imposed a lot of what we’re considerate drivers and riders have turned quite aggressive and leaving 20mph zones can be like a rolling F1 start. You are quite right Drakeford and Waters are promoting their own egos and we can all remember what can happen when dictators with their power do that. Thin end of the wedge.
Great video I live in Swansea had to travel to Wiltshire totally agree with your thoughts we will have to see where this goes it might be a learner but not an learner thanks😊
Excellent waffle as always. I guess living in London I've got used to riding at 20mph and while it seemed terribly slow at first, overall it hasn't added much to my 1 hour journey time across town to the Bike Shed, a mere 11 miles away. But that says more about London traffic than changes in urban speed limits. I guess you just have to ask yourself, as the instructor on my recent speed awareness course (ooops) said "How much time does it actually add to my journey?" and the answer is, not very much, just extra minute for every urban mile I ride. So in a place like rural Wales where villages and towns are sparce, and generally quite small, it's not going to add more than maybe 30 minutes to a full day's fun in the saddle.
Totally agree, I don’t think the 20mph limit is much of a problem really. It’s more that because it’s a blanket change the risk of collecting a ticket is high if you’re not completely paying attention to road signs. I reckon a lot of folk will get caught out which in the end will be bad for Wales’ tourism economy. Or it might make make no difference at all 🤷🏻♂️😁
As for Ms Thunberg, I'm glad she's made caring for the environment a moral argument. In our post-pandemic conspiracy-filled world where people will happily believe some Yorkshire bloke spouting pseudo-science across B-roll he recorded earlier over hundreds of thousands of climate scientists then the moral argument is perhaps all we have left. It's just a pity that our current crop of lizard-headed overlords are such an amoral bunch. PS. For a minute I thought you were going to go fill Fullingham and I was going to have to immediately unsubscribe. Please don't, I'd miss you.
I guess it's one of those wait and see things, although I'm not sure I'd be able to muster much sympathy given the number of signs from your ride. And at least with a blanket change, we don't have to constantly worry about whether we're allowed to do 20 or 30, if you see street lights it's 20mph. Not that a lot of people seem to know about the street light rule. And as they say, ignorance is no defence from the law. If I take a trip to France Monsieur Gendarme is going to have no sympathy with me doing 60mph on their national speed limit road. And so it is when we take a trip to Wales (or London for that matter).
Damn you and your logic! It’s true, though at the moment Sat-nav, road paint signs and actual road signs are often all saying something different in Wales. I suspect a lot of tickets will be issued in Wales 😁
Loving the video's, I've only recently found your channel so playing catch up. Great t-shirt and keyring too, received them really quickly. Thanks so much.
So most of London is now 20 and while annoying in principle most traffic flows closer to 30, but not much more. Whereas before when 30 was the limit it was mostly nearer 40. Bikes generally go a bit quicker than the cars and I remember the police encouraging this on a bikesafe day I did about 15 years ago. So expect Wales will be the same and it wouldn’t stop me visiting. Beautiful place. As for the mild rant about politicians in this country you’re spot on. The Waffles are great, keep it up
Thanks Marcus! I’ll still be visiting Wales too, I think the media blew it out of proportion to an extent, it’s not really a big inconvenience as you can’t go that fast through towns anyway. I do think it’s a bit of an own-goal for their tourism industry though.
Another thing I've noticed in North Wales is the number of one way traffic lights where there is no work being done, particularly on the A494,A470 and A5, in fact right in the centre of Corwen today they have dug up the pavement,left the mini digger there ,erected plastic barriers and one way lights and no work going on,this is the A5 to Holyhead,what the f is going on. A494 to Bala has one set of lights been there a month and nothing going on, again used by heavy goods vehicles to mid Wales . Ifor Williams Trailer company must be sick of it .
Well balanced views matt, unfortunately the world is currently being influenced by minorities with extreme beliefs, and politics with no accountability. I'm not even convinced its a global issue anymore, it seems as if we have the strictest policies forced upon our own population. Personally I just want to ride my motorbikes or cycle.....and watch a bit of RU-vid 😉
I think we’ve all had such a bad crop of politicians for such a long time that the only people who can be bothered to vote are the militant nutbags, and now we’re suffering the consequences of our apathy, the lunatics are amongst us. But yes, a simpler life would be marvellous!
Hit the nail on the head. We've had the freedoms of voting by the general population for maybe 100 years (give or take) and as sad as I am I've had an interest in politics all my life. The current situation seems to be the poorest in my own lifetime. I find it crazy the volume of acceptance that people have 🤔 Genuinely feels in some respects our freedoms and liberties are being restricted 😬
@ClassicRides again, very similar thoughts, I'm struggling to see a single politician that has any personal beliefs. It's almost as if they all live in fear of having an opinion and micro manage everything they say or do thereby avoiding any commitment. Sooooo wish the sun was shining....definitely need a ride out 🤦♂️
@@williamloynes4235politics and middle management have become a way of removing the unproductive people from the workforce, who knows how this happened 🤷🏻♂️. I’m with you needing the sun to shine, maybe next year 😁🤞
The problem with the 20mph speed limit is that it has been slammed down without looking at the roads it is being put on. There are so many roads like you have seen that go from 60 to 20 and back up again. Not safe as you have said. From what I have seen is that a lot of people have just been ignoring the new speed limit. Not just cars but buses and lorries as well. Then you have the people who are so frightened of getting a ticket they have gone in completely the other direction and are spending all their time looking at their speedometers and not the road whilst doing 10-15mph in a 20mph zone. I was stuck behind one person who was doing 20mph on a 60mph road because they were not sure what the speed limit of the road was even though it was signed 60mph. Accident waiting to happen?. But they have not touched possibly one of the most dangerous types of road in Wales. All the little back lanes that are just about wide enough to get 2 skateboards to pass. Yes they have left them at 60mph. Accidents happen on these roads and people die. But hey they are out of sight and out of mind. I agree with the 20mph for housing estates and schools etc. All the minor roads, But they should have left the A roads alone and have the speed restrictions they had pre the 20mph. Plus any other roads that have a faster speed limit for what ever reason it is needed. It will affect tourism not just for the possibility of getting a ticket. But Wales gets huge numbers of people towing caravans. You ever tried towing a caravan at 20mph for extended periods. Good luck in keeping your engine cool and your clutch not slipping. But still that is small potatoes for killing of the tourist industry that the Welsh Assembly have planned. The proposed tourist tax will kill that off. £5.00 per night per person( At the time of writing this I have seen if the assembly have said that children will get a reduction in the tax due. So it remains at £5.00 for everyone till then) to stay in a hotel, holiday park or caravan etc. Not sure about towing caravans. But I suspect that it will be added to the site fee. So your average family of four arriving after a much longer journey due to the 20mph speed limit to get to their holiday camp/hotel/etc will find they are paying an extra £280.00 for the privilege of coming on holiday to Wales for 2 weeks . And do not think if you live in Wales you will not have to pay it. Oh yes you will. I Cannot see too many people doing that a second time. Arriva the main bus company in North Wales is threatening to cut services/stops because they cannot get their timetables to work with the new speed limits. So little out of the way villages and routes that may not be that profitable run the chance of loosing their bus services. So the reduction in the speed limit in Wales has much further complications than you might think. On a final note it is odd to think that the Welsh Assembly have said that they need to make £200 million budget savings and cuts in all areas. But they managed to find £30 million pound to pay for the changing of all the speed limit signs. For a change in the speed limits that most people in Wales did not want. £30 million that could have been spent on health and education and reduce the amount of cuts needed.
Totally agree with everything you've written there. It's absolutely bananas that the Senedd think there will be any tourists to tax in the first place. Perhaps they'll get away with it for a year, but once they've burned enough visitors the first time, nobody will want to come back and the rest won't come because they'll have heard about it. Seems there's an almost unbelievable lack of lateral thinking going in the Welsh assembly; and it's an easy electoral win for whichever party campaigns on policies to reverse the changes in the next election. Nuts.
Hi, I missed one thing out about our wonderful assembly. What was the first thing they did on the Monday after the speed limit came in. They scrapped a bus service that went round a lot of small villages which did not have a bus service and took them to a central bus station so they could then go shopping etc. It relied on money from the assembly as it was never going to make money. That's why the local bus service providers did not provide a service. It relied on a small amount of money from the assembly to keep going. And they scrapped it. Now all these people will have to use their cars if they have one or get lifts from friends and family. What a total bunch of total ******* idiots they are. But perhaps it is not as bad as what the Green Party in the EU are proposing. They want all motorbikes to have the speed they can go at reduced to less than what a car can do. So that they cannot overtake on roads. Approximately 20KM below what a car is allowed to do.
We've had the MAMILs running Sheffield Highways for years trying to eradicate the use of motorized transport. To such an extent the city centre is now dead.
Same here in the eastern part of Canada. 50kmh down to 40 or 30. They cast the net so wide I'm starting to think this is not for safety but carbon emission reduction. I did not research that though.
I don’t think vehicle use carbon emissions is even a fraction of ‘industry’ as a whole, so I’m doubtful of the benefits of getting us all to drive slower, if that even reduces carbon output. I didn’t research that either though 😁
Good video. I live on Ynys Mon, and I am already sick of the new limits, especially on long stretches of open road. Every trip takes literally A THOOOUUUSAND YEARS longer, literally! They should make all the 20 limits a mandatory warp factor 10. That way you can travel back in time, and save some bloody humpback whales whilst picking up your soy milk and Quorn sausages from the village shop, in your USS Enterprius.
@@ClassicRides. . .not that I personally have anything against humpback whales, I'm sure they're very lovely. I'm just tired of riding IN humpback Wales.
A calm, intelligent and unemotional response to the 20mph limit in built up areas. I ride through Wales every year for approx 3 to 5 days on my classic bike and spring and summer weekends. I think the problem is just as you have suggested. Weak and brainless politicians who want to push their own agenda and to hell with the common people. Oh and that modern issue of revenue earning. I personally don't see the problem of the 20mph, but I do think the lack of thought and planning of the speed coming to and out of the 20mph section is. I will still ride in Wales as I think its a wonderful place in the world. Nice one Matt. I'll be watching more of your video. Thanks.
Thanks Ian. It must be a true misery for folk having to live with it every day, but for visiting on a day trip it's not such a deal breaker. The silver lining would be if it halts the 20mph restrictions being applied elsewhere in the in the UK, hopefully local councils will see it a cautionary tale.
There are other aspects. People who live here actually move around and many of those people rely on being able to move around reasonably freely as part of their working day. Couriers, tradesmen, taxi drivers etc. Also, many of the bus services are now having to be rescheduled. The accumulative effect is that because it is impossible to add more time to the day, the number of services have to be reduced. The only alternative to that is to increase the number of buses operating each service. That obviously defeats the object of reducing emissions, which as we are all aware, buses are probably more guilty of than cars because they leave their diesel engines idling more often. Any reduction in the speed limits will have an adverse effect on services.
No argument from me on all your points. My video was really about what it’s like to visit Wales on a motorcycle as a lot of folk do. I know that’s quite different from having live with the chaos the new limits are causing.
Someone reminded my of my old college days with a simple calculation that sort of discredits what Drakeford and his cronies keep coming out with. It involves the time taken to to travel a given distance at a certain velocity. That is: Time = Distance ÷ Speed So the time taken to travel 30 miles at 30mph = 1 hour But the time taken to travel 30 miles at 20mph = 1.5 hours (1hr 30mins) So a bit of wool being pulled over people's eyes. To the uneducated travelling at a third of the speed they would argue that it takes you a third of the time longer to travel that distance when in fact it takes half as much again. This is more relevant in urban areas - that is a given. But that is where more deliveries are made and most bus routes will operate. I'll wager that they have not factored this and if they have they don't care.
Government policy seems to be heavily biased towards fringe groups that shout the loudest and not what is sensible or what the majority would approve of in lots of areas. The cost of this 20 mph policy will ensure this will not be overturned in Wales and its perception for tourism will cost Wales dear. For many bikers not visiting Wales has become a protest vote. I find it amazing that local governments can spend millions on making bicycle routes and alterations to roads for the cyclists benefit but not fill in pot holes and improve the road surfaces (no I’m not against cyclists). I do 1000 miles plus per week for work and notice massive speed reductions everywhere and every type of road. National speed limits reduced to 50 and 40 mph. I’m a firm believer that speed does not kill but bad driving does. You should nt need to be told to reduce your speed when passing a school! However funnily enough, our fastest roads are our safest!
A mate of mine is Welsh and has family in Swansea and Cardiff. But he lives in Hertfordshire about 7-miles from me. He drives, rides a Honda Goldwing and cycles. He and his family all say the same thing. No proper consultation because if they were asked, they would have said no! That said from the 1980s into the 1990's we have gone on a motorcycle holiday to Wales and loved it Mat. The times we've slowed to 15 mph or had to stop because of the views were countless. But as I keep saying, if it's safety that these 20 mph zones are being imposed to keep people safe... Then why did schools and police stop visiting children and teaching the our Highway Code? I also think people from overseas that settle in the UK would also benefit being taught our Highway Code and how to use zebra crossings? In London we have 20mph zones. The way people just walk out backs to oncoming traffic has become unbelievable! That said, thanks for the ride out, good way to start the day 👍. Safe riding young man.
Thanks Les, as you say the safety argument is a bit mute since there are better ways to achieve a greater level of road safety. I honestly do think it’s the manifestation of one persons irrational dislike for traffic, and it’s not been well thought out or implemented. Since the Welsh Gov aren’t listening to their constituents, perhaps the hit Tourism will take next summer might persuade them it was a bad idea.
In the city I'm in in Australia we went from 60Kph (37mph) in urban areas as a default to 50kph (31mph) in suburban streets (keeping 60 on main roads), and 40kph at certain times (25mph) in school zones, in a couple of local high streets they have this dropped to either 40 or 30 (18mph) - I've no problem with this as for a lot of the school zones even getting up to 40kph is impossible due to all the kids being dropped off/picked up, and the high streets you need to keep it down due to pedestrians and cars pulling in and out of street parking bays. The only time I find it annoying is that a lot of smaller rural towns you're on a 110kph (70Mph) highway and it goes straight down to 50 or 40kph rather than a stepped drop to 60 Kph a kilometre or two before the town then down to either 50 or 40 at the town it's self. So many people just barrel through at 110 past the urban speed limit sign then brake HARD after the sign - a few times I've started to slow down from 110 in preparation to getting to the urban limit and had cars either do a insane overtaking manoeuvre (sometimes while on the horn) to stay at 110 for the next 50 or so metres or they lock up their brakes 'cause they aren't paying attention and suddenly there's a bike in front of them doing half their speed
I think this is the problem that I didn’t articulate in the video, the low speed limit is not a problem in built up areas really, it’s the parts where it goes from high to low speed too suddenly and too much of a step down that there’ll be accidents as you describe. They definitely needs to be a buffer zone so people can reduce speed at a safe rate.
I have heard two arguments used for reducing the speed limit, it depends on who you listen to! #1 To reduce road deaths. We have always known that being hit at lower speeds improves the rate of survival so I can't argue with that. But the problem is the was they have imposed the speed restrictions everywhere by default instead of using common sense and actually seeing where it would benefit most. Plus speed limits don't apply to push bikes! Why not? They are just as dangerous at speed as any other mode of transport and have caused multiple deaths over recent years. New laws need to be brought in to stop push bikes from speeding! Especially when they can rub the 20 mph limit in motorists faces by riding straight past them! #2 For environmental purposes. In my logic the new 20mph limit is going to do the opposite and is going to increase pollution! -Engines use more fuel at lower speeds. -Increase wear and tear on brakes and gears and clutch. -Having to replace car parts more frequently. -More parts manufactured means more factory emissions and possibly more mining for metals too. #3 They want people out of their cars and using public transport. - I hate public transport and so do many others! - Public transport is unreliable and people often get soaked while waiting for the bus which never turns up and makes them very late trying to get to where they were heading! So that clearly isn't going to work either! So, the idiots in charge have clearly gone against all common sense and science itself and it will impact Wales in a big way financially. I am not looking forward to going back to visit family because of the change in speed limit. My father found it very tedious the last time he went just trying to keep to 20 and because of that decided not to leave the caravan the next day, therefore impacting the local economy. Where you were travelling in North Wales you may not have noticed much difference, but if you go to South Wales it will be very different. Well, my extremely long comment is over (for now). 😁
I've heard a few times it's much worse in the South, so I may need to revisit Wales soon for a fuller picture. Also agree that neither the safety or environmental arguments really stack up. I think it's just more personal agendas being pushed rather than a considered plan aimed at producing the most good for most people.
20mph in a city builds up so much traffic and the traffic lights still havn't been altered to allow more cars to go through at a 20mph, so the traffic lights let half the cars through. What this also does is force cars to do rat running which is basicly come off a main road which should be a 30mph to go down roads that are 20mph and should be because they are built up, to then exceed speeds of 35mph. This government should'nt of blanket the 20mph but only for housing estates , hospitals , schools. I also think the reasoning why people disliked the way it happened is because when the ban was in place camera vans were out in force on main roads not outside hospitals , schools or busy estates. So there is always a patten here which is the government are always looking to make as much money as they can. Last thing is that when the people of Wales signed a petition asking for the Blanket Ban to be lifted of over half a million signatures. A party member asked Mark Drakeford if he would consider re evaluating the situation and he out blank said no. I thought this Country was a democracy not a Dictatorship. The government forget this at times that the people get the right to vote to what happens to their country. 20mph works but only in some places but when the ban is in place they shouldnt then punish the people for making mistakes and getting use to the speed by possibly takign away their income at these difficult times or possibly removing their license. In cardiff there are areas still marked as 30mph but speed cameras set for 20mph. It is a Scam until it is done correctly.
Seems as though most folk aren’t against it in appropriate areas, but the incompetent way it’s been done and the arrogance of ignoring peoples voices by those in charge beggars belief.
Hasn't really made a difference to much. Most of the 20mph roads are roads where you'd rarely get to 30 anyway. If there's a road that's a particular issue then you can apply to the council to get it changed but honestly, I've noticed no difference. The fuss over it is totally overblown.
I have to say that was mostly my experience, the actual 20mph bit didn't seem such a bother. But I can't deny that many folk, even on my little video, say it's quite different having to go through those villages on a daily basis. At the very least, the Welsh assembly seemingly ignoring the Welsh people has annoyed quote a lot of folk.
people are being wound up with a lot of bullshit as usual. Certain political interests taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge on the subject.@@ClassicRides
Hi I love Wales and the people but not going to do my normal tour this summer the local government don't want us they have got it north Yorkshire instead. Great vid
I can understand that, as far as I know they’re starting to roll back a lot of the 20 zones now, but I imagine they’ve damaged their tourism industry quite a bit already.
Totally fair points and the policing of which is also more harm than good. Quick question, which barkbuster set do you have please? I love winter riding my T120 but haven’t found the ideal guard/wind block kit online!
It's the VPS handgaurds with a single point clamp. To be fair they don't really suit the bike but there don't seem to be any good classic styled options out there. They do the job though!
@@ClassicRides you hero, thanks for that and prompt response. I wonder if you painted in your tank colour they’d blend a little. Excited to have discovered your content and continue to enjoy!
Today's cars make less pollution than the old ones. Trouble is there's 3X as many cars. More people on mass transit the less are out there running us off the road 🛣️.
I'm shocked but not surprised that Welsh speed limits can now suddenly go from 60 mph to 20 mph without warning. Not saying that DOT numpties in the USA know better (God forbid)! But in some states you'll see a "Speed Zone Ahead" sign, followed by a 40 mph speed limit 1/4 mile later, and then the dreaded 30 mph sign 1/4 mile after that. Kinda does away with the "took me by surprise officer" argument, eh?
It's a very poorly implemented policy, there are areas where the speed is stepped down as you approach, but not everywhere and I think it's the inconsistency that's going to catch a lot of people out.
In my opinion, Country roads are not a good example of the impact 20mph is having on moving around day to day. Although we saw more lampposts going in locally. I have no argument in my village, or others. Schools etc. But the changes up and down from 20,30 and 40 and back down on the same road (a484) is causing confusion and 'rolling road blocks' of traffic.. Lee Waters is a Llanelli politician and taking a lot of flak thankfully.
You’re right, I was trying to get a bit of town and country riding but may have overdone it in the country lane bit, to be fair though I wanted to show that those roads are unaffected. Glad to hear Mr Waters is copping a bit of heat, he seems to deserve it.
@@ClassicRides some country stretchesh have been adjusted. The popular black mountain which is known from top gear now has average speed cameras. We have to travel to get to them. Which in itself is going to cause issues. As you say a convenient time too. I'll have to do another video u think as it was raining in the brief one I did. I didn't really want it to take over my channel, and got my first troll. 😣 Ride safe, LJ
@@ladyjrider666 Don't stress about the trolls, I gather it's a lot worse for women on YT anyway so you're bound to get more. Any comment, even the bad ones help push your video out so I just look at the crappy comments as a good thing for helping the video, the opposite of what they probably wanted 😁
My concern in 20 zones is the car drivers getting up my backside. I’m happy to ride to the law and ride at slow speeds in residential areas, but the people that aren’t become a bigger risk to motorcyclists.
That's true, I think the 'safety' argument for 20 zones will be a bit mute once motorcyclists and bicyclists start getting punted off their bikes from behind by impatient car drivers.
The point about being hit by a car at 30 is not necessarily right! Cars are designed to deflect a pedestrian OVER the vehicle. At 20, they are more likely to go UNDER it
I frequent a number of cafe's in North and mid Wales and they all say it's costing them tourist business. Wales is closing down thanks to Welsh labour .
Matt from a bikers visitors and holiday makers point of view I think your bang on the money with your summing up On another note how do you find your hand gaurds work keeping your hands dry and warm ????
Thanks Ian. The hand guards have worked really well so far. I get really sore fingertips even with heated grips & gloves, but I managed the three hour ride into far North Wales in 4-5 degrees, with just normal winter gloves on with no problem. They don't really suit the bike but I think I'll be keeping them on for winter.
@@ClassicRides agree they don't look great but I used to ride in and out of London and had gaurds on my xt600 really noticed the benefits all through the winter months Keep up the good work matt
A wonderful irony that’s perhaps yet to be fully recognised is that if you are using a satnav then the algorithm will make the selection for minor single track roads that on the map database default to an implausible national sixty speed limit! This will transfer much non local traffic to the country roads. Some locals may see that as an advantage but the residents of the minor roads won’t. The expectation is that the Labour Party in Wales may have signed their own death warrant. 😂
You might be right there Robin. I think any party that put motorists at the top of their agenda are in for an easy ride, and I feel like this may have just dawned on our current PM.
It’ll be interesting to see how stringently the Welsh authorities stick to the 20mph limit when handing out the fines ,I’d be very pi…d off at getting a fine for travelling 1 or 2 mph over the limit…if there’s a greater degree of leeway say 5-6mph over would be creeping towards being more acceptable.
Yes a lot would agree inc me , They done the same in Europe but only in the centre in town/villages not banket for miles around . (Unlike wales done Thoughtless easy change ) I live nr N/wales my super duke 1290 can’t do continue 20 unless kept in 1st gear and my Daytona 675 runs hot In 30mph just overheats in 20 stop start traffic. I’ve had a Triumph triple for meany years my favourite engine . So the super duke up for sale and just do more track days and for the most part written off wales as won’t be long before the 60mph be gone bit like England for ever changing 40 -50 -40 .
I hadn’t thought about air cooled engines to be fair and yes, I could see the slow traffic being a real issue. I’m not sure people will tolerate much more of this sort of nannying, once people feel really restricted (which I’m sure is coming) we’ll stand up and say “mo more”.
@@ClassicRides Daytona liquid cooled but runs hot unless moving 30+ we’ll known for it so the 20 kills it . Some US states went lower speed than recommended just because they can . The speed signs got ripped up by locals and it’s was revised back . Make a stand in the numbers . Llangollen where they have dropped 60 to 40 with average speed Cameras . Not just horseshoe pass . Seems to take the worst case road conditions and I force it 24/7. Call me old fashioned but I thought Learning to drive was about reading the road ahead looking for hazards etc . Not brain bead target speed
Hi classic rides, great vid and I think you are right what you were say about politicians they say a lot and don't do much and leave it up to local councils to do whot they do not want to do and cause difficulties for every one in general lives
same here in austria. we also have 20mph speed limits to protect children and adults from accidents, but if you travel through the country and pass little towns you can see no one on the streets. if you would like to attack someone with your car you have to drive through the front door. children who are playing on the street? that was my childhood and that was long ago. ;-) :D :D :D we have environmental taxes on the purchase price of vehicles that are consumption-related called nova, we have high rated taxes on fuel to save the planet (or the governments household mistakes - who knows). in tyrol we have noise-related driving bans for motorcycles, which are legally EU-compliant. here in vienna we have extended woodlands in the west an there is a road, where you have to drive 30 mph because of air qualitiy rules...in the wood... :D :D :D and it doesnt matter if you are driving a 125cc scooter or a porsche cayenne...so whats the point of that? :D :D
Their argument was it was to reduce casualties and lower emissions. Re casualty figures every RTC the police attended they complete a stats report which details the causation factors which then goes to the Welsh govt. So common sense would dictate that you reduce the limit in casualty hotspots not a blanket change!!!, don’t get me started on emissions, a simple maths equation debunks that deluded idea. You are spot on with your comment on environmental group action, it’s not widely known or talked about here but Welsh assembly members were threatened INDIVIDUALLY with legal action by the group of environmentalists unless they comply as a govt with green pledges. The first deluded decision after this threat was to put a 50mph limit on a long straight stretch of the M4 enforced with avg speed cameras right next to Port Talbot steel works which bilges out huge amounts of pollution saying and still saying it was to improve air quality!!!. They take they take us for idiots!
I find it interesting that the media tends to focus on groups like Just Stop Oil, who while being a nuisance are also wildly ineffective in helping their cause. Yet there's almost no coverage on the groups applying real litigation pressure on governments to follow through on promises made years ago by people who couldn't see, or care about the consequences beyond gaining a short term popularity vote.
COMING TO A TOWN NEAR YOU It's not just modern-day, car drivers facing the new EU rules CO2 it also puts motorcycles as a target We have seen in wales speed limits drop to 20mph, so-called clear zones in Bristol, which is a totally idiotic move by the local community of transport, as air moves about all the time this pointless. The only thing it is doing is bringing in extra money for local councils Bristol and Cardiff alike, we as motorists pay up front in our yearly road tax, this year mine has gone up to £700. Only this month the cost of fuel has gone to £1.70 and to be £2:00 per litre by Christmas which is £10.00 per gallon. The government is using motorist and motorcyclists as piggy banks, if the government wanted to save £1.5 Billion per year and £3.5 million per day, then the answer is to stop taking in all the people crossing the English Channel and the war zone of the war in the Eu. The British public cast a vote to come out of the Eu. So why are we as a small country taking people who think they can just come to the Uk and live for free, and be allowed to as no we do not want to be placed on a hotel boat, we want the holiday inn, this is why we are now looked upon as the world's dumping ground. The British public wants our rights back and to live life freely without the dictatorship of the EU and the war in Ukraine . The English people the backbone of the Uk want to feel they belong , not just someone who has landed on your doorstep.
Try having 10 miles plus of 20mph to get through valleys to get to work. I'm not talking the odd section I'm talking 10 mile lengths at a time. It's extreamly frustrating when it's the only road you can use. My home is like one you passed it's on an A road I knew when I bought it traffic might be an issue but since 20 brought in its now much worse. Instead off the odd lorry go past they moved through quickly now it's huge convoys of bunched up traffic continously it's much more noisey I can't get out my drive and there is a constant burning diesel smell. There was nothing wrong with how it was before there was never any accidents nobodies been killed but now like this it's only a matter of time.
It does seem as though it's been applied in a very crude manner, where often it's to the detriment of folk like yourself. It'd be nice if they could address this quickly, they can't remain deaf to the people of Wales for too long surely.
They have really dug thier heels in, that has made the situation MUCH worse. Its become a battle of the people V Lee Waters and Mark. Councils could not afford to apply the correct level of exemptions, so most took easy way out and that was change all roads to 20 and use street lights as a guide as apposed to the correct sinage and implemtation. Its made things very misserable like you said once go safe start busting people for doing 22 MPH hell will break loose. Remember 10% of 30 is a much bigger number than 10% of 20. So the fines are much higher and the penalty points are at 6. For example if you get caught doing 30 in a 20 thats 6 points and a fine % of your sallary @@ClassicRides
On the first day this 20mph law was implemented, there seemed to be convoys of cars slowly trundling along at the new limit. As the days roll on, many people are just going back to 30mph. It is a bad law and deserves to be ignored.
@@ClassicRidesRode over the Black Mountain from Brynamman to Bethlehem the other week, it's only up the road from me but I haven't been there for a while. I was disgusted to see that they have installed average speed cameras all along the mountain route. It's a joke. They won't be happy until they have taxed or fined us off the roads.
People prodding their mobile whilst driving is far more risky than plodding through a village at 30mph. Deal with the obvious accident causes before treating every motorist like they are a moron. 20mph in some locations makes sense, they were already in place.
Trouble is Matt, your opinion that the 20mph speed limit is not such a big deal, is because you and some other commentators don't truly grasp the problem. Yes, it's true that you would often struggle to drive much faster than 20 mph through many towns and villages., but that's not what's upsetting most people. It's the bigger roads that's the problem. The joining roads that can go on for quite a considerable distance. It was considered reasonable to drive at 30mph for decades and decades, but now you are expected to drive at a speed that is quite simply too flipping slow. Councils do have the right to keep the 30mph speed limit on selected roads if it decides to do so, but in most cases, they don't seem to be bothered, leaving the public at risk of multiple fines and lost licenses. The argument that the 20mph saves lives doesn't wash either. Of course, we all want lives to be saved and that means we should drive at a safe speed. But you have to coincide safety with practicality. Otherwise, you could argue that no speed limit is safe. No, I'm afraid that this decision is a perfect example of ministers mistaking stubbornness for strong leadership. If anyone is in any doubt about just how wrong this enforced decision really is, just look at how many people have signed the petition to reverse it. It is approaching half a MILLION signatures. Half a million, when the whole population of Wales is only 3.2 million. Harold Walters.
Thanks for the comment Harry, but I do truly grasp the problem. I think there's been a few people, as you have, that have missed that the video is about what it's like to visit Wales on a motorcycle, it's not about what it's like to live there. I should've perhaps been clearer about that. I'm aware it's a very different experience having to deal with the new limits on a daly basis, but my point was that if you're visiting Wales on a day trip, as a lot of motorcyclists do, travelling to the roads and areas they go to, then the new limits don't have that much impact and it would be a shame for folk to not visit Wales for fear that it's now a terrible place to ride, which is just isn't. That's not to say that the new limits aren't causing havoc in the towns and villages and I really do hope the Senedd see sense and change it back to how it was, for the benefit of everyone living in Wales.
Thanks Matt. No offense was meant by my comments. I just get so, so angry at having to dawdle along a quiet, deserted road or face what can eventually mount up to a lost license. Cheers, Harold Walters. @@ClassicRides
It’s not so bad really, I thought it’d be a bit of a minefield but to be fair it’s only small sections that are 20mph now. I think you’d be more likely to not see the signs though in a car as there’s more distractions, so speeding tickets might be easier to collect on four wheels, maybe.
@@ClassicRidesI'm actually fine going 20mph in a car in my nice safe cage. Not so happy going 20mph on a bike especially when cars most often ignore the 20mph limits anyway.
If children were still taught the green cross code, like i would wager many watching this were, then the road safety argument would not be as convincing. I live in London, 20's everywhere, and still people just walk out from no where, oblivious to any traffic. Normally with headphones in. We also have the added issue in that drivers, all vehicles, assume 20 rather than the actual 30 or 40 or 50 or 60. So now you have a new batch of drivers being an obstruction .
I agree with you there, car safety technology has gotten much better too so getting hit by a car these days is not the same as having your legs chopped off by some nice looking chrome bumper from the 70’s. Nutty policies by nutty people.
You nailed it on the head. They are not following any science to impose their wills on people. Long term, it is about getting rid of any vehicles. Remember, children’s den adults can be killed by vehicles backing out to their driveways and they are not doing more than 5 km/hr.
How will they fine cyclists doing more than 20mph? No registration plates etc? Perhaps this law does not applicable to them? Much the same as many other traffic laws or so it would appear.
I live and ride alot in the brecon becons the best roads to ride are often found in wales, i have no problems riding at 20 mph around schools and built up ares where poeple acutly live , but i find alot of 20mph are not based round the useage of theroads by pedisrians ,
20 mph is crazy, also driving up costs, causing buses to change timetables, taxi's to charge more, deliveries affected, Try living here with 20, drivers should be able to drive at 30mph, if they cannot then the driving test is at fault or the driver is a moron! Also , a sign , new law, will only punish the innocent ! I have seen mare anger, mire tail backs then ever ! I now do not let anyone out! If u get hit by a car FFFing LOOK before you walk i nto the rd, put ur phone away !!! The other issue is if the front car is doing 20 then 5 cars back are doing 15mph. enviroment argument is rubbish, longer travel times = more gasses ! THEN , next is 70=50= 50=40 ulez coming, rd tolls, more parking charges, then the complete loss of owning your own vehicle!
I don't live in Wales so the only impact on myself would be when visiting and I'm normally in no rush as I'm there to enjoy their wonderful countryside. But as a democratic country I think the Welsh public should have had a say before this decision was taken. As for the reduction of 10mph having any real impact on the benefit of the environment is debatable, safety maybe and has for politicians and their past associations 🤔 well that's a whole new can of worms right there
I agree with you completely, I didn't think the 20mph to anything more than a bit annoying in built up areas, but that's not why we go there on a motorcycle anyway. The way the Welsh Assembly have behaved is a bit too 1984 for me though.
Land off leeks and sheep WTAF! Try the land of valleys mountains and history As for the 20mph it's not the 20mph that's the issue it's the blanket Not placed in the correct places so yes it's a big deal to wales bus routes are looking to be cancelled and some roads are 20mph for miles so many city slickers up and having an opinion on our lives but messing the whole thing up
Firstly, I’m not the first person to associate Wales with leeks and sheep, so chill out a bit, it’s a joke. Secondly, if you watched the video it’s about visiting Wales on a motorcycle, not about what it’s like to live there. They’re obviously two very different experiences and I should have thought that be obvious in the video, you know, with the motorcycle and me mentioning it. Thirdly, I don’t live in a city so hardly a city slicker. Fourthly, I made no comment on Welsh people’s lives. Finally, it’s not us from outside of Wales who messed up your roads, you did that all by yourselves by voting in Mark Drakeford and his acolytes.
I ride a bike in Wales and not everyone voted for a lefty no shell turtle faced tard ! And nope won't chill people need to be more respectful to Wales and the people of Wales As an Englishman living in Wales it's seen far to often
Well done for highlighting fringe lunatics and insipid political tampering with our freedoms, this twentyism is no different from Oxfordshire my next door county. I also commend your balanced overall approach when it would be easy to make it a thoroughly good rant,
One person can baselessly change the world. Same over here in USA. No mining, but mining the world inside out for battery minerals. Some will see how we fair when the batteries go in the dump. Huge investments and money laundry. Self driving autos, sheep following blindly.
We have had 30 MPH SPEED LIMITS since 1935 what's changed ? the vast majority of roads in Wales are still the same and villages three houses and a cow shed make a village you drive through and don't see a soul what about cars parking half off the drive way and in the road sheep in the road theasants for shoot in road it's politicians coming to the end of term thinking what can we do now
If this had been imposed in all built up areas only I don’t think people would have issue with it as it makes sense. To impose it across the whole country is madness but hey we pay these people to make these decisions for us when we vote for them, so only us to blame.
Totally agree. I enjoy my riding and adhere to speed limits but these left wing bigots are returning Wales to a 1950s idyll. Apply the 20 limit when strictly required and stop patronising riders and drivers. A sad and frustrating situation
Maybe, though I think Manchester and London’s response to their council’s oversteps gives me hope that people will stand up for themselves when the time comes.
@@ClassicRides I support it in some places such as Llanbedr where there are houses close to the road with blind bends and no footpath. However in other places there seems no logic and can only see it being difficult during the tourist season. The project cost £33 million pounds to implement during a cost of living crisis. I do not consider it money well spent and did sign the petition against it !
@@markb3180of the very few Welsh locals I’ve asked about it, they all seem to be if the same opinion as you Mark, it’s welcome in some appropriate places, but the blanket implementation has been poorly thought out.
I live in Wales,i also drive and have yet to witness anyone doing 20mph,so obviously most people not taking a blind bit of notice,good on most people 😁
I am in no position to make comments on what goes on in the UK, only in the US and I can vouch for brain dead politicians! On a more mundane note, I see you have the stock gas tank cap back on, was it because of venting smell? I would like to ask about the tank rack specifically if your suction cups remain well attached? My T120 sits in a garage that reaches close to 100*F and periodically loosen and then have to be re-attached. I was thinking of the 20mph limit and I find that the T120 is not really very happy at low speeds unless in rain mode otherwise it seems somewhat "jerky". Your comments sound suspiciously like US citizens.
Even as far back as Plato we see him saying that anyone who wants to be a politician should be immediately ruled out of being one 😁 I didn’t have any problems with the fuel cap, it’s just that I now have a tank bag that won’t fit with the Motone cap, so had to put the original back on. Personally I’ve also had no issues with the rack coming loose, did you clean down the surface with alcohol wipes before you stick it down? It almost sounds like you have wax that’s melting at high temperatures which is causing the rack to come loose.