Warcraft 3 multiplayer balance is the best it has ever been 

I love how this Korean taxi driver had a strong japanese accent

"wtf blizzard" has always held a special spot in my heart just like "thanks Obama".

this type of video is just SO NICE in a game studies perspective

wc3 has always had a great custom game community. Reforged could have been the injection it needed to rejuvenate...

I’ve never played it but bought it yesterday and it seems fun so far.

You are a gift from the RTS gods. Appreciate such an immense amount of knowledge and love the streams/commentary!!! Ur the GOAT!

I'm loving this channel, these kind of essays give us viewers more insight about the game we love to watch that may be quite hard to notice by ourselves! Ty Grubby.

Great mix of history and game analysis, love to watch this kind of videos

Dont give blizzard any more of your money, they blow

I wish the rest of the people involved in Reforged cared about the game half as much as the balance team. They might not get everything right but at least they're trying.

5 days late bro

I agree. I can only really speak for 4v4, but compared to when I got into the game proper around 2008, pretty much anything can now be used effectively, but back then many units and abilities were just not worthwhile, and some strategies like tower+tank were just ridiculous.

I def used mass wind riders in 2003-2005 lol it didn't work too often but it was fun

in the final WC3 ESL, Hasuobs surprised Sokol with his new frost tower strategy, slowing down the Blademaster.

i wish grubby was pushing the idea for them to develop a decent keybind system, i would try warcraft and im sure so would many others, but when the keybinding system is so outdated and complicated i cant see myself really playing, when i know someone else has everything binded and i dont.

Didn't they decide not to have Wisp detonate upgrades at the upgraded Tree of Life? That's been on my wanted list. I want to deal more damage to summons with them. I think I tried asking them but I'm a nobody so I wasn't listened to. We can upgrade others twice so why not Wisps also?

7:50 The upside down, lol

The bad part for me is w3 stopped working, when I run it a process starts but the game never shows up. I have been unable to play for months and tried everything I could. Any input wouls be appreciated, please

My opening as NE vs Orc in TFT was to always go KotG, 2-3 archers (with more in queue behind it) while leveling up KotG to at least level 2 (depending on map), then attacking. Entangle and Force of nature with 2-5 archers at time of attack almost always overwhelmed the orc player. While not always an instant win right off the bat It would set the pace for the rest of the game and usually end in a win. I'd be surprised if my WR specifically against orc as NE was less than 90%.

I remeber for sure, when I stopped playing wc3 as an Orc. It was back to the days, when every HU towered me, and i had nearly 0% winrate against this, what Grubby explaned somewhere at 28:00...

thank's

Good talk

Did Grubby ever make a video about the shortcomings/disadvantages of WC3 compared to other games? Just watched his top 10 best games. I didn't realize he had played so many other competitive games so much. His considerations in general seemed very thought out, and now I would love to hear his perspective on where WC3 is coming up short in retrospect.

I honestly thought about going back and playing wc3 while stormngate is between testing phases, but I am pretty sure it is dead in NA and i dont really feel like playing with 150+ ping.

Grubby nailed the Korean English accent 😂

Its crazy that this day and age every single UD hero is viable for a starting hero! ( maybe not at the highest level…)

I'm still at the start of the video but I remember one thing in particular from the stale era, everyone was shouting "Night Elf OP" especially with the Talons vs Orcs thing. But what bothered the most by far was little things like how Dryads used to give the same amount of 40 experience points as an Archer or a Ghoul. It took Blizzard YEARS to correct something as simple as this. I don't know if this is adressed in the video but I'm really hoping it is.

balance council sounds spooky haha

I'm happy to see that despite the disgusting mess-up that was Reforged, the classic Warcraft 3 is still thriving and getting balance improvements

When I was 10 I would always mass taurens and witch doctors. My big brain 10 year old self thought it would be unstoppable because of big boys and healing. Hearing grubby say witch doctors have never been viable broke my 10 year old heart.

Absolute best shoe comparison I've ever heard. Now I want to sell shoes. Would you like a deal on Air Grubbys, and Grub Grubs?

Now if only the balance didn't have to come with an absolute disaster.

The Kodo Has Been Moved

I just, really wanted an uncapped unit selection option for modders to add to custom games. Would've made custom games such as RoT/SoT, warcraft legacies and war in the plaguelands for examples a bit more casual friendly. Not that those maps can't still be played.

Blizzard should hire you as a patch consultant! And pay you 7 figures

31:35 Read "Happy"

I refuse to play custom games or StarCraft until I improve at Warcraft, as a result I’m kind of at a stalemate. There like 2-3 viable human build , archmage footies , paladin rifle, and a combination thereof that evolves into more rifles priests then either knights griphons spellbreakets. I never liked sorceress all that much, she told me to alt delete world ending spell 😂 anyways a video going over common strategy for human or say for all the races would be nice to listen to I need inspiration

Nice ted talk

in ROC you had Wyvern, not Wind Riders. Wyvern were tier 3, but powerful. I am a Wyvern fanboi.

Orc op still

Hey Grub, I feel like when I was younger all of the competitive players at the time talked about Undead being massively overpowered. I've never been good enough to have an opinion in this discussion, but is this true? Was balance/overpowered play back then also because of mechanical stuff that hadn't yet been discovered?

Night elf op still

Hit that Sub button like you would hit that pesky Blademaster killing your Wisps!

The Orc of SC2 guttfeeling is definitely Protoss. But I did find Grubby's talk about his time maining Protoss the other day insightful. I still think Protoss deserves the title, but I also agree with Grubby that they could have designed Protoss better. Make Gateways viable, make Protoss less cheese/all-in dependent. I did a challenge to myself going up the ladder from silver to plat with Protoss a while ago. I never really played Protoss, pretty much just Zerg and a bit of Terran. Only took me 3 weeks about. Way faster than I ever climbed a ladder over the years. It's actually insane how far Zealot/Archon gets you. It basically counters everything. Master's league and Grandmaster I guess I have no clue tho, only know it from watching.

Hab schon oft gehabt dass ich gespielt habe sehr erfolgreich es war für mich alles totaly fine und dann kam patch und alles geresettet und meine klasse wurde um zbs 20-40 peozent generft einfach so

**watches 30th series on Back2Warcraft in a row where Happy's DK/Lich/+1 Hero combo is unkillable**

Every balance analysis that doesn't basically say: X is super OP even noobs can win with it, which is why I want to nerf, bla bla .... is always worth hearing. This game never allows anything that's super broken last for long, by imba it often means X is too good in this specific matchup and needs some careful adjustments, .... And I found myself in quite a lot of agreement with your takes here

Human op still

so 'Random' is the best race?

ORC IN SC2 = PROTOSS NO WAIT protoss is undead cuz they summon in buildings. NO WAIT Bligth = creeep so undead = zerg So orc = random

more WC3 Turn stories

Undead op still

Subbed! Balance is the key property of any multiplayer game. Please use some online Markdown editor instead of this "fancy" text.

Of course Orc has always had viable healing! And of course witch doctors are amazing! You just have to think outside the box. You dont have to bring your witch doctor outside of your base with your army, my man. Keep him at base and when you need to heal, instead of buying outrageous amounts of healing pots, put down healing ward. You'd onky have to spend 345 gold and some lumber for healing the rest of the game assuming nobody assassinates the witch doctor. Otherwise you're repeatedly buying items to do that same healing. Scroll of healing costs 125g and healing salve costs 50. We know you buy at least one of each every game. Thats already 175g and that all adds up quick when you buy so many throughout the game.

They finally had it perfected when the passive armor buff for the paladin was +10 and he had his handy rusty pickaxe. Then they just screwed it up. And got the love of God the poor night elves and their moon well nerf. You grubby should be ashamed of yourself 😂👌🏻

Still won't be paying for that piece of trash when I own the original but can't access it anymore.

Yes it is i think the people behinden balance do know what it is about, but you cant balance it that is no imbalance at all

i hate nerfed creep drops. especially auras, blizzard, BRING BACK STRONG ARTIFACTS!!

Now that's what I call a clickbait title.

reforged... love hate relationship, firelord uses volcano, the game crashes xd on the newer graphics but nothing happens wth the legacy ones.

I remember downloading the replay packs when I was still in elementary school, and watching games on WaaaghTV. Damn, those were such a good times. 4K.Grubby joining the MYM - we were talking about this for weeks in school :D

2:13 but Grubby, starcraft has no hearoes pepegiggle

NEDALANDAAAAAAAA

This is the first time you call wc3 reforged “crap”. Thanks, just a couple of years late

It would be a "great job" if the game was playable without random crashes every 40 minutes or so... The greatest disappointment for me is that the game is terribly unstable to this very day, 4 years is long enough to get the client to be at least stable The game crashed back in the day, but the last classical version was very much a stable version I really only wanted that back, I could not care less about 24 player maps, or the new graphics, or everything that was not on the original client, so I'd sacrifice that for having a game that works

Bei wow war das so: blizz so: sehr ihr den destro der alles mit chaosbolt onehittet, der spielt gar nicht lange und ist sau gut, da muss ein destro nerf her

meta's always been a poison to games. longer game stays alive the more toxic it gets

34:06 Tiny language feedback/nitpick: when pronouncing "Refuge", the emphasis is on the first syllable, not the second.

Early garg harass still a problem for ne players

wut, why this april fool video now? xD did youtube schedule screw the posting on this one?

they butchered beautiful polish dub and i will never forgive them for that

What?! How can you even consider that?!

Nahhh. I will stick with classic Warcraft 3.

mate, MK's *BASH* damage is *ABSURD* . Just... *NO.* The fact that there is *even ONE person* in the "balancing team" (whoever _THEY_ may be...) who even *THOUGHT* of the idea that MK's bash needs _A BUFF_ speaks enough to me: No, the game is not as "balanced as can be", because the people in charge of balancing it are *CLUELESS.* .

why fancy text generator? what the fuck

Banshees curse needs to be nerfed from 33 to 25% chance to miss AND the spell time on heroes should be like slow from the sorceress. These missed crits from BM are really painful to watch. Ghouls need just A nerf, someone just please pick one! Still one of the best units in the game because of synergy with dk´s aura, lich´s dark ritual and the ritual dagger item, in combination with the fact, that this is also a worker unit. My proposition is a) Frenzy tech should be 30 seconds longer (the 9 minute ghoul push especially against NE is too strong) b) Frenzy tech nerf regarding movement and attack speed (10% less movement, 5% less attack speed) c) Cost of Frenzy tech should be raised from 100g/150w to 175g/200w Also destroyers shouldnt get any HP back at all from devour magic AND/OR devour magic should have a longer cooldown (2-5 seconds). Mana gain is okay right now. Maybe reduce the maximum mana because the UD all-in timing pushes are just too strong. Dark Rangers minions and the minions from rod of necromancy should give 50% more EXP. The fight for EXP in the war of attrition (after the map is fully crept) is always won by UD and can be maintained because of holy aura and high damage high distance spells. The distance from Nova should be nerfed by 100. An instant dmg spell should not have the same distance as the others... Frost Novas cold duration should be 3/5/6 instead of 4/6/8(!)... -> Pick only one of the lich nerfs above first, and then reevaluate If matchup against HU is too hard with this nerfs, lets rearrange HU then, but it is necessary for the matchup against ORC and especially NE. Kodo devouring should be 50% faster (so 7 or 8 dmg per second, lets start with 7), because it is a VERY long duration shade for the opponent after TPing away with full stomachs of full HP Units. Also Kodos movement speed should be just 5-10% faster. lightning orb proc chance should be increased (but I dont know how much right now, maybe only 5% and then reevaluate). NE whisps should have 15/20 hp more. On pro level it is so important to detonate them in time, they give way to easily 25 EXP. My moon well proposition: a) moon wells should always heal HP first, and then the MP (healing dryads can be really annoying, because you rarely want the MP healed with them) b) Rearrange/buff the starting mana from moon wells, while reducing the max mana. Make wellspring mandatory at tier 3 c) Let the players choose which points (mana or health) to heal seperatly Rings should also give 3/4/5% (or even more) magic reduction AND/OR please make some little magic reduction item (10-15%)!

warcraft 3 reforged is basically just warcraft 3 but with different graphics (which u can switch off) from my perspective, still masterpiece, it occasionally crashes and music plays at wrong times + the campaign has bugs but other than that it's in great condition, world editor has new functions for us mappers to use, and as grubby said reforged is getting balancing updates and such... it's definitely worth it's price just a reminder grubby, i'm in the progress of making an altered melee gamemode that has naga and fel orc, + some other enhancements outside the races, and i'm planning to alter every wc3 map this way so I can play as those races on any map I want (you could call it a warcraft 4 project, i'm creating this mainly for myself to play but i will eventually request u to try out the map and see if it's balanced if that's okay)

The 'new' graphics are such a joke. Beyond ridiculous. Make my eyes bleed

Holy shit, for the first time ever, Iam disliking a Grubby video. Very, very hard disagree with you, Gruby. The balance in WC3 is terrible. Undead way too strong Vs Orc and Elf, Human strong Vs Undead, Elf strong Vs Orc and Orc strong Vs Human. Man, I never thought that the day would come that I would dislike a Grubby video. I guess there is a first time for everything.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣