Warp Talons are Looking SCARY in the New Chaos Space Marine Codex

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Let's talk about the unit that seems to be able to jump on and off the board, destroying things with impunity!
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0:00 Intro
0:53 Lore and Models
3:03 Datasheet
5:30 Warp Strike + Rapid Ingress Combo
9:28 Detachment Buffs
12:01 Thoughts + Potential Weaknesses
15:28 Will it Get Nerfed?
16:36 Outro

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Опубликовано:

6 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 190

@rutherfordappraisal258 23 дня назад

As good as these look, it’s pretty safe to assume that in the next FAQ GW will nerf the Skitarii Vanguard and Rangers.

@AntiT42 23 дня назад

New player here, why does Gw don't lone Admech, don't get wrong I lost vs them once but why are they so hated by GW ?

@LordCrate-du8zm 23 дня назад

@@AntiT42 GW has just really dropped the ball balancing Admech. They don't hate them they just keep tripping over themselves trying to fix it.

@TheAtomicSpoon 23 дня назад

@@LordCrate-du8zm Not to mention they just seem to do points drops thinking that will fix it, meaning you need even more models, so you end up with a bigger monetary investment for an army than anyone else. An army that even at its best is still hurting badly.

@luckylarry71 21 день назад

🤣🤣🤣

@MrFiremagnet 23 дня назад

Ah, my favorite unit archetype - a glasscannon

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

Not nescecarily. It's fragile yes, but that's the whole point of the buff. It can hide away if it succeeds, of It doesn't it gets bullied. No clue why they're tryna nerf it

@LuckyMoniker 23 дня назад

glass cannon implies you just need to attack it, but when it casually avoid 90% of attacks by just not being on the table, it becomes a bit different

@oliverp3545 23 дня назад

@LuckyMoniker that's exactly how a glass cannon works

@AntiEyeglassman 23 дня назад

A g-lascannon?

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

@@LuckyMoniker glass cannon If it fucks up once, it gets heavily punished

@sedory 23 дня назад

I agree with some of the comments here. While this is indeed strong, it's by no means OP. The meta will shift and folks will learn to me more careful about screening and adding units that can attack when things deep strike too close. When not expecting it, they will be hard to handle. A few weeks outside of the codex release, folks will have counters to deal with them and it'll just be another strong unit/combo

@11AleZZ 23 дня назад

Is OP with a skillful player, you can kill backfield units, going to reserve and the next turn appear in other parts of the field to make actions, take objectives, or charging again to other lesser units, for the points it's OP.

@Rook262 23 дня назад

@@11AleZZscreen em out. Feed them garbage units. Their big power requires CP so they absolutely have limits

@11AleZZ 23 дня назад

@@Rook262 they can enter the battlefield free, with CPs it's even better, but you have the options, that's why it's one of the better units of the game

@nathengriffiths-holland7038 23 дня назад

I will like to add it depends who they go against that determines their value. I’m new ish to the hobby and have a world eater army so as melee focused force against me specifically they don’t seem as threatening, a pain to be sure but I feel if they go against anything that’s melee focused they will struggle a bit more thanks to their lower damage and lower durability. Ultimately I feel they are great for picking off specific targets and will force their opponent to be carful how they deploy especially because for what they can do their quite cheep units

@dylanmoran4312 22 дня назад

@@11AleZZ Not if they get screened out. And the only way they get a guaranteed charge is by rapid ingressing which is anything but free.

@icklemoo 23 дня назад

they melt to any form of fire pointed at them ...with volume or D2 and in melee they are going to bounce off alot of tough stuff imo ..even with the rerolls . more busted that GW make a new jump lord character that cant even lead warp talons or allow the winged demon prince in a dread talons host able to lead them .. smh

@AhMrJIPresume 23 дня назад

“My time has come…” Night Lord Oogway

@AIPretendingToBeHuman 23 дня назад

Isn’t that how almost all GK units work. Deep Strike, Shoot, Charge, Fight, Go Back in Reserve ?

@YouveGotRyan 23 дня назад

These are guaranteed to go back into reserve. GK only go back into reserve (when it matters, with mists of deimos) if you get close to them.

@Desm0708 23 дня назад

STOOOOOOP please help I REALLY want to make a Night Lords army but I already have Salamanders and Eldar as my second army

@Manny_lol 23 дня назад

Chaos beckons

@warp5p1d3r6 23 дня назад

rookie numbers

@sanerog8727 23 дня назад

Salamanders and Eldars ? Vul'kan would be ashamed of you

@SmashingSnow 23 дня назад

I'm right there with you. I want a Night Lords army thanks to the NL KillTeam that recently released.

@bobh9492 23 дня назад

Just remember gw depends on these suckers bets to drag you into buying a new army. It will be nerfed.

@InvisibleYogurt 23 дня назад

They're annoying, but their gimmick costs 2 CP to do in the raiders detachment (1 to fall back, 1 to rapid ingress) and they just bounce off vehicles. They even have a tough time against custodes and heavy infantry with invuln saves.

@11AleZZ 23 дня назад

Yeah well if you use them to kill heavy infantry you're using it pretty bad

@AlunDowdeswell 23 дня назад

yeah I personally think people are overestimating this combo, they don't actually deal much damage and die easy

@tacochaos5127 23 дня назад

Stormboys lookin at them like "dis is da way"

@NogrimStoneson 23 дня назад

Mandrakes are nodding approvingly.

@Majere613 23 дня назад

A couple of other potential counters: 1) Heroic Intervention, especially those unusual units that can do it and/or do it from extra distance. Even if the intervening unit doesn't seriously damage the Talons it can stop them jumping simply by being there. 2) The Sanguinor, who basically has Heroic Intervention+++ with his ability to just pop up and strike first. 3) Durability strats in general. Armour Of Contempt and its counterparts in other codexes will reduce the Talons damage output pretty hard. If you risk attacking a melee unit then Fight On Death strats could also ruin your day. Overall the Talons are dangerous and you can bet someone is going to try 30 of them, but I think so long as you keep some CP back most armies with any sense can do something about them.

@Zakading 23 дня назад

Man, seeing these and then looking at how they absolutely GUTTED Possessed makes me so sad.

@paul80085 23 дня назад

They aren't busted. You can do some abusive stuff with 1CP and rapid ingress, but all their shenanigans assume they can delete their target in 1 turn. If even 1 dude survives, their melee target falls back and your opponent shoots them to death

@paweplaczek2191 23 дня назад

renegade raiders would let you avoid that problem

@Julian-cn1ey 23 дня назад

Okay, then you just send 30 Warptalons in to overkill the target unit and bounce back up into the warp.

@paul80085 23 дня назад

@@Julian-cn1ey660 points for 30 is a commitment

@InvisibleYogurt 23 дня назад

@@paweplaczek2191 yeah, but thats also 2 cp a round to do that gimmick. If my opponent is using all of their regularly generated cp to do just that, i think its fine.

@AllThingsCubey 23 дня назад

@@InvisibleYogurtBut they don't need to do it every turn. The other CP is a backup strat if they fail to kill the target, not a necessity, and they don't necessarily want to do this every turn either. The point is that if they want to you can't interact, at all.

@Fortunes.Fool. 23 дня назад

Good, I have two or three boxes unassembled for my Chaos army.

@tastiGMmaster2099 23 дня назад

Man between this and the consecutive points buffs to Jump Intercessors, GW *really* wants this to be the Jump Pack edition, huh?

@vxicepickxv 23 дня назад

I think they're trying to sell Hydras to guard players.

@AnalogBass 23 дня назад

Antifly 2+ isn't worth anything when you wound on 2+ anyway @@vxicepickxv

@AnalogBass 23 дня назад

And i approve, 9th has made this archetype Luv me some assault squads, wish we would also get smth scary on a jumppack since they put vanvets into the dirt

@NogrimStoneson 23 дня назад

Main Drukhari, with a second army of Emperors children. i have 3x5man squads of them, they are like tougher mandrakes. kill something, pop off the board, then drop them on an objective next turn, or put them behind a wall close to something scared of them. rapid ingress is amazing, but even with out it they bring a ton of mobility to chaos that can let them snatch an objective almost as well as a drukhari army can.

@MarcosGarcia-et1qu 23 дня назад

Warp talons were good even in index. Mark of slaneesh was an amazing mark for them with the twin linked claws. I will be bringing them to support my raptors in the dread talons detachment

@StigPrice 23 дня назад

I got me the dread talons box. Deffo building them as warp talons. Will most likely end up buying some raptors as well.

@macinboss2159 23 дня назад

LOVE Warp Talons! I think I currently have 40 models built, so I’m super glad they’re still usable!

@warp5p1d3r6 23 дня назад

depends on points

@STINGINWOUNDS 23 дня назад

Warp Talons models are so cool!

@realskulls 23 дня назад

how the hell is a jump lord not attached to an obvious attachment attaching thing

@Xynth25 23 дня назад

The funny thing is that the Jump Lord's rule would actually be better for the previous WT rule, not this one. 6" pile in is better for multi-tagging but the unit now wants you to wipe single units and bounce.

@paweplaczek2191 23 дня назад

Armies that have reactive stratagems could also be a problem. They do on avernage 10W to intercessor soo if they are in ironspear they could aoc and on averange you would fail to wipe 5 man sq.

@effindave6909 23 дня назад

Wouldn't be too far fetched to lose most of a 10 man squad on the drop due to overwatch if you came in to close to a flamer tyrannofex for example. This codex doesn't impress me in the slightest especially after the orks release.

@Silverdragon83X 23 дня назад

I am pretty sure, they fix that, as it can be totally busted against light infantry focused armies. But even without that, they are still good, AP-2 is quite important these days!

@thecharlessalmon 23 дня назад

Wonder if they will ever give these back to World Easters.

@astral_ragtime5365 23 дня назад

If nothing else, the mere threat of this should do numbers against Necrons lists -- if nothing else, this combo shreds Immortals with ease.

@dusty228 23 дня назад

Speaking of retailers, do you have any trusted/ affiliated retailers that work within the EU?

@JasperXoR 23 дня назад

I like that Deceptors might be marginally playable this edition. I've wanted to play Alpha Legion for quite a while but never have real viable competitive rules.

@LordyT34 23 дня назад

Not world Ending but certainly a great objective cleaner

@mikekearney5044 22 дня назад

I think it would be good if when you do unit reviews you include their damage vs ork boyz

@TheWarpForge 23 дня назад

Ah, finally my bois are good! *Laughs in Night Lord*

@kevinishki 23 дня назад

You have to login to use wargame portal?

@QisforQadim 23 дня назад

Must have had a lot in the warehouse.

@joshuasmith5472 20 дней назад

Being a demonkin like unit. They still dont have character support. So being 220pts plus a CP drain on them, yes they are sting but its a huge hit on a chance to make them work.

@thehappywarhammerguy4731 23 дня назад

Warp talons are amazing backed up by a possessed squad

@christopherlarter4386 23 дня назад

Yes, they're nuts for their points.

@justinmsc5 9 дней назад

It's probably a bit OP, and since it's not Xenos, it'll be nerfed relatively fast

@hevy2036 23 дня назад

Thx

@LordCrate-du8zm 23 дня назад

It makes no sense that the new Jump Lord has a Warp Talon loadout but can't join them.

@alagass6466 23 дня назад

I always liked Raptors, are they any good?

@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel 23 дня назад

I like them but I do play Nightlords so it's only fair that I love these

@Seses209 23 дня назад

I might be super off on here, but I'm not sure how you got 10 wounds vs Intercessors on the Damage chart? 20 attacks on 3s, sustained 6 means 15 hits, wounding on 3s rerolling means 13 wounds, saving on a 5 means it does 8 damage. Right?

@Internetbutthurt 23 дня назад

40 attacks...he calculated off 10 WTs = ~33 hits with sustained = ~29 wounds after rerolls. 5+ save = almost 20 wounds. This shows they are not reliable to kill such a unit and would likely just get killed in response

@AnalogBass 23 дня назад

Sustained hits are equal to +1 to hit, but explosive So it's 16.66, 11.11 before rerolls, plus 3.7 after = 14.81 and 5+ = 9.87 wounds And then round up But yeah, that damage is swingy, aoc spoils the fun, and you need 10 to kill 10+ wounds of marines reliably

@11AleZZ 23 дня назад

They arent designed to kill heavy infantry ot tough targets, they are designed to kill backfield units or characters, going into reserve, and the next turn make actions, take objectives, or charge again into melee. For that role, they are the best unit in the game right now.

@ncguthwulf 23 дня назад

Played against a unit of 10. We obviously didnt know their true point costs, so we just used existing. They failed to kill a unit one turn and I was able to widdle them down (bully boyz). They will be very strong and I think will have a high skill ceiling.

@notangproductions7163 14 дней назад

I'm just sad that the Lord with Jumppack can't join the unit :(

@nathengriffiths-holland7038 23 дня назад

From my point of view their damage isn’t too crazy but in a full squad I can see them being decent damage and great at harassing big shooting enemy’s but for me it’s their crazy speed plus being able to leave them come back with deep strike that makes them decent. My view may also be skewed as a world eater player because as annoying and quick as they are because I would have greater melee power they aren’t as threatening to me personally but to any army that likes to keep their distance I can see these being a menace

@oldmangames9292 23 дня назад

AP 2.. soo hard to find with the new DA melee-specialists.. :-(

@ElijahDeputy 23 дня назад

Wargame portal is under construction btw

@edwardcote2440 23 дня назад

FWIW we won't run squads of ten very often, just too unwieldy. We will have to see if this becomes a problem in practice. If so, it probably won't be any particular combo so much as the difficulty of interacting with them in general.

@Xynth25 23 дня назад

10 models is honestly super hard to hide on rapid ingress. I think 5 mans is just the best way to use these guys.

@YouveGotRyan 23 дня назад

10 are much more likely to kill what you point them at.

@Xynth25 23 дня назад

@@YouveGotRyan Yeah but 10 is hard to hide in cover and not be screened out. You might run a single unit of 10 starting on the board, but rather than running Talons as your primary damage dealer they're just better at the job they already do as 5 mans; killing screens for the rest of your army.

@YouveGotRyan 23 дня назад

@@Xynth25 I play GK and it isn't hard to find a place to worm your way into with a rapid ingress after going into reserves. Especially not with a unit that moves 12". Every chaos list will start with a unit of 10 and might start taking units of 5 for flexibility after that. Until they're nerfed to only go into reserve on your opponents turn, that is.

@Xynth25 23 дня назад

@@YouveGotRyan 10 will see some play but the consensus in the competitive discords I'm in is mostly towards 2 or 3x5. There's other, bigger damage dealers to smash the units you'd want 10 Talons for, and 5 mans are better for secondaries.

@stormlord7119 23 дня назад

When you already have 3 sets of 5 XD

@NornQueenKya 23 дня назад

I have 10 already and only 5 raptors. I have the dread box coming in and SHOULD make more raptors... but... but warp talons though

@SmurphofChaos 23 дня назад

Have 10 of each. Then you won't regret it as much when WT get nerfed to hell and back.

@NeloBladeOfRanni 23 дня назад

@@SmurphofChaosexcept they shouldn't get nerfed tbh

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

@@NeloBladeOfRanni deadass, no clue why people want them to be nerfed, they're quirky but not op by any means

@lmccart1705 22 дня назад

Guys I’ve done the due diligence and the survey says: “No” I’m not assembling warp talons right now what do you mean

@Apex_Yonko 23 дня назад

Is it better to run a 5 man unit or 10?

@AnalogBass 23 дня назад

For this combo - 10 because 5 don't kill light infantry blobs or meq msu reliably If you want to run 5 - get raptors imo, this unit is about damage and max squads are better for using buffs on them

@GrimonprezB 22 дня назад

GW need an only Imperium meta....with only Marines. Be prepaaaaare for nerfs! XD

@hevy2036 23 дня назад

Is it allowed to play by the leualist terminator the heavy flamethrower and the minigun in a squad of 5? or is that a big nono?

@GeoffSmites 23 дня назад

only one heavy weapon per squad of 5. 2 per 10

@hevy2036 23 дня назад

Only to be safe. The rockets on the beck are a heavy weapon?

@Lomhow 23 дня назад

I love my Warptalons. I was hoping to run a Chaos Smash Captain with my 10 man squad for maximum angry jumpiness. But uh... No Chaos Jump Captains at all??? Only leader is a faction locked book character in resin? Harken Worldclaimer? GW once again got rid of fun lore accurate strategems like Auspex Scan and Transhuman Physiology. They were the strategems that should've been brought into 10th and would be FANTASTIC counters to Warptalons or general jump pack infantry.

@AnalogBass 23 дня назад

Are you trolling? There is new chaos pack lord, faction locks are only for loyalist - every csm player can take any character, auspex scan is covered by new overwatch, just get units that can shoot overwatch well Transhuman is bullshit (and i played both CSM mainly Nurgle and marines), glad it's gone for good Play this edition or at least read the rules before whining

@lazywargaming6752 23 дня назад

I hope they just make em high points instead of FAQing it. Let people have their fun buy pay for it in points

@davidwarburton-burley9967 23 дня назад

Already got ten because i play word bearers and figure they'd embrace demonic units 🙂

@johnymiller7245 23 дня назад

If only the WT models were better looking!

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

You, my friend, need to learn of this awsome thing. Kitbashing Specifically With spare chaos daemon parts

@coachgonzalezpg1742 21 день назад

They just want people to buy the box of models with them and then they’ll be nerfed

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

*my opponent crying after i wipe his key units off board turn 1* (he had three units of warp talons in deepstrike that he has to use for points now)

@iantmurdock 23 дня назад

Are warp talons busted? I wouldn’t know, Dread Talons battle force is sold out. 😂 I’ll let you know if I get some to play with!

@chrisbingley 23 дня назад

They're not OP, but no doubt there will be people complaining about them for a couple of months after the codex gets released.

@Cry4Tanelorn 15 дней назад

I think ppl are GREATLY overexaggerating how good Talons are

@user-qz3xt9pl5f 23 дня назад

If you fail the charge there is a huge chance they get deleted anyway

@realskulls 23 дня назад

rapid ingress, problemo solved

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

@@realskullsif you fail to hide them, they immediately get shot at.

@mkulchar 23 дня назад

They're just a drop in the bucket compared to eldar.

@archonwut1624 23 дня назад

Ehhh they for sure are not OP (they are for sure good), I do love a lot of the cool interactions they can do, but they still will die to anything almost immediately. My Baal Preds have instant killed so many units like this it's crazy, any effective unit that is a vehicle and/or overwatches just wins against them unfortunately. Even if you rapid ingress your opponent could just have 2 dmg flat artillery and just immediately kill the unit. One 10-model unit is awesome to have tho, but anything more than that is huge over commitment imho.

@ianabel5937 23 дня назад

I'm not sure 'shred infantry' is entirely true -- without any combat strats 5 talons have a 20% chance to wipe 5 marines with standard sustained hits on 6's ( only going up to 34% in Pactbound Zealots with Slaanesh -- you have to pass the dark pact to get crits on 5s). So not totally busted. I think this is OK, worst case they'll get FAQ'd so they can only jump away in the enemy's turn (great maneuverability but still gets shot at)

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

I honestly don't see how this is op at all ironically enough. If they don't get into a charge, they don't get obliterated. If they succeed in the kill, they don't get obliterated. Your forced into 9 inches away like a normal deepstrike. I don't get what's "op" about them

@YouveGotRyan 23 дня назад

@@bloodfest8510you're forgetting about rapid ingress and OP is forgetting about the extra AP they'll get from attacking units on objectives in renegade raiders where they will be the most egregious.

@grumpycup4762 23 дня назад

So basically yet another reason to never run Raptors ever xD

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

Raptors can take enhancements. Have the new leader. Have melta guns Force battleshocks

@space9658 23 дня назад

Are they busted? No, no not at all *shoves 3 units of 10 in every list*

@realskulls 23 дня назад

we are the same

@bloodfest8510 23 дня назад

I dont see how this is op, nor why they should be nerfed. Somebody explain how stuff that callidus assassin already does is op?

@Geist40 17 дней назад

Id rather them lose the rule over getting absurd points hike

@kreedsutherland4207 23 дня назад

I'm just here to tell you all to go buy more GW Products.

@sgthunt118 23 дня назад

They weren't even worth taking before this... looking good now! I am going to wait for the next faq before I break the arms off my raptors tho

@brettmanus7904 23 дня назад

I don't think it is OP. Most people are playing things the way they are boxed these days; in 3's and 5's. Five Talons are not just going to auto-shred everything they charge. You can't ingress until turn 2 or 3. I think it's an interesting ability that is a rare gem in a codex that just keeps taking stuff away. The only way it becomes a problem is if a bunch of jackasses at tournaments start running 30 of them; which will draw a completely over the top knee jerk reaction like last time when they kicked CSM in the balls and then knifed 'em while they were on the ground.

@captaincorundum9788 23 дня назад

The chaos marine codex is sweet and so is this datasheet People will run them in tens and smash At least chaos marines aren't like admech and stodes...

@andrewcarter4458 23 дня назад

People said I was crazy turning up with 30 warp talons and 30 raptors, who’s crazy noooooow!!!dhjugcbnssxc🤪🤪🤪

@WilliamChoochootrain 23 дня назад

Just in time for breakfast lul

@AncientIrishCelt 23 дня назад

How long until they're nerfed to hell?

@paweplaczek2191 23 дня назад

propably as soon as someone finds way to minimax them reliably

@TheLoneRanger-by2jp 23 дня назад

how is it op to rely on a 9" charge? lmao

@damnedLegion40K 23 дня назад

Add a comment...

@jasonrg12 23 дня назад

They’ll be nerfed in the first FAQ, relax.

@Daniel-uq5cd 23 дня назад

Just when they sell enough boxes

@TheH0ff 23 дня назад

@@seventvarods7728 bruh 10 of them average 12 wounds on terminators. They're nasty and are going to get nerfed in the first FAQ

@Blackrage916 23 дня назад

Shhhhhhhhhh!!! Let the meta chasers go out there and clean up their stock a bit 🤣🤣

@Fortunes.Fool. 23 дня назад

And get a price increase.

@spoonsrattling 23 дня назад

Even if they got the same restrictions as swooping hawks they'll definitely still be strong

@seriousmike5649 23 дня назад

This wont last long.. and knowing GW they will be unusable garbage once they nerf them..

@paxter82 23 дня назад

Its not that broken tho

@Yuri77711 23 дня назад

You can't just use average damage in the context of their ability. UnitCrunch shows the odds of killing a unit, i.e. that if you want consistency you either have to overkill with a 10 man unit and there will still be plenty of untouchable units, or be content with removing screens and then deep striking to do secondaries. A lot of armies also have strong overwatch. Thousand sons, Death guard, any army with sustained hits and hit re-rolls, any army with fight on death, there's plenty of counters because at the end of the day they're just marines with 5+ invul save.

@jojayjo9712 23 дня назад

They might be, but they’re current models are old bleh

@ryanbarry5320 23 дня назад

We’ve seen this over and over and over and over and over again. GW releases a new kit it’s massively good rules. Then gets Nerf within the month.

@royrule36 23 дня назад

First?

@SmurphofChaos 23 дня назад

just about

@WarhammerDad1 23 дня назад

I usually love Auspex Tactics… but bro just copied Blog for the Blood God’s video from yesterday, and reposted literally the same info in the same order… Auspex, you’re better then that.

@bobbywatson2737 23 дня назад

I don't think Auspex has the need, or even the time, to copy other creators ; might be a coincidence I guess.

@donandresdeulloa4638 23 дня назад

The whole f***ing game is busted. Tourney [bros] ruined the game

@nevermorebouquet3681 23 дня назад

This game fucking sucks. The entire design for 10th is like when magic cards use to have vanilla six drops that were just stats. It's boring.

@captaincorundum9788 23 дня назад

How long have you been playing 40k?

@nevermorebouquet3681 23 дня назад

@@captaincorundum9788 Since right before eighth.

@archonwut1624 23 дня назад

@@nevermorebouquet3681 7th was horrible tho, like it was easily 10X worse than any other edition ever. There is a reason why it was almost the death of 40k.

@nevermorebouquet3681 23 дня назад

@archonwut1624 7th was a poorly balanced version of Heresey, which is a fundamentally better game that 10e. If GW wasn't ran by a generation of people with fetal alcohol syndrome who knew how to use the internet, seventh could have been the evergreen edition lile 9th could have been.

@archonwut1624 23 дня назад

@@nevermorebouquet3681 Are you saying that Horus Heresy 1.0 or 2.0 is fundamentally better than 10th edition? I'll die on the hill that both are for sure worse than 8th, 9th or 10th in almost ever way. Horus Heresy 1.0 was only enjoyable because it was just the hidden Warhammer 40k 7.5 edition of the game and 7th was just that bad, once 8th came out everyone and their mothers jumped ship and Heresy died, and the small amount of people that stayed screamed at the top of their lungs it wasn't dead. (it was dead af) Horus Heresy 2.0 is just the final "Good" forum of what 7th SHOULD have been, which is still not good when comparing it to 8th, 9th or 10th. (HH 2.0 should just be renamed to "Dreadnaught Heresy"). The only time i would recommend Horus Heresy 2.0 over 10th is if you REALLY REALLY like space marine mirror matches and want more rules to make space marine mirror matches fun and have arbitrary wargear bookkeeping, OR just want to reminisce on rules from 10+ years ago.