Excellent. I had a similar experience with IBLP, experimenting with more feminine dress, finding balance and losing friendships. The main issue I had with IBLP is when I would study at home and look up their scripture references they didn’t support the lessons at all. God’s law is simple and focuses on the heart. It’s hard enough for me to keep that I don’t need to make up more rules. I’ve found the additional “rules” families create to try to please God end up taking the focus off the inward heart.
"The main issue I had with IBLP is when I would study at home and look up their scripture references they didn’t support the lessons at all." This was also what I found. This is a major problem and there is a name for it.
This was so well said and well put together. This happens a lot in my own church, and I find that many Christian churches have very conservative and very liberal views within each religion and we all need to take a good look at our hearts and see if obedience is coming from a place of love.
It seems to be all you are saying is that as long as you don't take Gothard's teachings seriously and you pick and choose which of his teachings you like that you can come away with something good. Which is true. And as someone who did not become deeply involved with this institution, this is what your experience was. But then you tell a story about an ATI family who did get very involved and did take the teachings seriously and the results were devastating. To me this example disproves your assertion that his teachings are mostly safe and good. and instead demonstrates that if you take these teachings seriously it produces a lot of legalism, and that produces a lot of fear and anxiety at doing wrong or not keeping all the rules. I'd also like to point out what effect this strict authoritarianism and legalism produces in children who do not have the same ability, as you do as an adult with reason and experience, to balance them out. They do not have the ability to NOT take this seriously or to choose/judge for themselves wether this is sound teaching. and they do not have the privilege of disobeying. It can be devastating. and lead to a life of anxiety, perfectionism and people-pleasing.
There is a difference between taking teachings seriously and taking them to an extreme. For example, the idea of modesty. This is a very good concept and the things I have read from IBLP make sense. But, if instead of the concept being taken seriously - i.e. never showing too much of the body that should not be shown or dressing in ways that are meant to stir up sexual desire --- a person takes that concept to an extreme ... saying you have to always wear a specific type of clothing at all times or you must cover your body from head to toe at all times like some cults do --- that doesn't mean the person who dresses modestly but doesn't cover themselves head to toe isn't taking the idea seriously. It means they are applying the concept in a balanced and reasonable way. I think the video makes clear there are lots of people who take the concepts seriously and use them in a reasonable ways, and there are many who go too far. That doesn't mean those who don't go too far aren't serious. Your point about children is well taken and very true. But the wrongdoing in that case is on the parents who aren't being wise in the application of things they learn. These concepts can be applied in all seriousness without going to an extreme. And whether they are done in an extreme way or not is a decision the parents make. If you notice even in these interviews, every one of the people who are unhappy talk about how they had problems in their family from the start, in their relationship with their parents, and even that they suffered abuse. Abuse is not taught in IBLP materials or at the conferences that I have ever seen. What Jinger describes in her book is the way she perceived what she heard and that she formed an overactive conscience. That can happen no matter what teaching you get. But, from what her book said, it also seemed when she talked to her parents about things that concerned her, they told her not to be so worried. I think it is possible the Duggars took things too far at times, but I also think they were much more wise in many ways than the average parents. The fact is, they all had good intentions and the "docuseries" was one sided, bias and unfair in the way it portrayed the whole matter. It demonized the Duggars, Mr. Gothard and IBLP which was the intention from the beginning. The producers of this were not looking to find the truth about all of it. They intended to make a hit piece from the start. And that is what they did.
You keep saying Jinger Dugger was interviewed in the Shiny Happy People documentary but she was not interviewed at all. It was Jill, who did not write the book you referenced.
I love all your content and agree with most everything you teach. I went from extremely career driven to a stay at home mom. Cut our income in half!! But I felt like it was worth it. My baby is 3 months old, sleeps 10 hours a night, and is loved dearly❤️ I look forward to child training opportunities as she gets older.
I came here to say this. It’s a shame she went to all this trouble to make a video without know which Duggar is which and who appeared in the documentary.
@@saraledford9599 that’s the only reason you commented? Because I named the wrong Duggar? Did that somehow change the entire point of this video? Did you read the description? If you have anything of substance or importance to add, feel free. But this is completely irrelevant to the point.
@@MommyAnswerLady I absolutely agree that the documentary was more of a hit piece. Very biased against IBLP and Christianity as a whole. I also think the teaching in the IBLP is harmful in many ways even for those of us that weren’t completely immersed in the culture. Jinger’s book does a great job sorting through that. But you indicated in your video that she was inconsistent between the book and the doc, when she wasn’t in it at all. As someone well acquainted with IBLP and with Jinger’s book, it bothered me that she was misrepresented in your video, which I otherwise thought was well done.
I like how you take a more nuanced perspective (there can be good and bad). However, as someone raised in the IBLP world and have now landed in a Reformed Christian camp, there are some VERY messed up teachings in IBLP. One that quickly comes to mind is the approach to counseling individuals who had been S3xually Assaulted. Bill Gothard taught that this kind of attack was only against the person’s body and God promised to make them mightier in spirit because of it. This teaching minimizes the full effects of such a damaging attack on an individual. It also makes the attacker a “good” guy in a way. In a weird way, it led me to wish that I could be assaulted so that I could be a mightier woman of God… There are many more teachings that are far off base from Scripture. These were taught from the podium. And while I agree that many intentions were good (thankfully, my parents were good, God-loving people), being involved in this “ministry” is neither good, nor healthy. I think you saw this in your friend’s life. Just my lengthy 2c. 😂
@@katiesnow396 Thank you for your comment. I get it. I have read the teaching you are referring to. I believe it certainly did not expound enough on the damage done by sexual assault. But in perspective and context, the intent was to help the victim understand it does not have to define them and they can separate themselves from the abuse by putting the shame they may feel on God rather than holding it in. And, that every circumstance of turmoil we face in life can make us stronger. It certainly wasn’t suggesting being abused was desirable! This is similar to how Ron DeSantis’s school curriculum in Florida has a statement that says slaves used the skills they learned while enslaved to help them provide and flourish once they were free. Is that suggesting slavery was good? Of course not! And if you look at the entire context, it’s clear that isn’t what is being suggested at all. But the idea is to take adversity and turn it into triumph. People take these kinds of things out of context and come to unreasonable conclusions about what was meant. I think there wasn’t enough in the materials to combat this mistake but the intention is clear if someone is willing to look at it with a balanced eye and within the context that was intended.
I have never heard of her. I just looked up an article. Obviously she wasn’t a good mom. A good mom doesn’t have starving children going to neighbors for food and water. Since I’ve never heard any of her advice, I can’t comment on it.
@@MommyAnswerLady she had a RU-vid channel called eight passengers and is part of the organization called connections or something like that. She is Mormon. They are a part of the Church of Jesus Christ latter-day Saints.
@@MommyAnswerLady I totally understand. If I’m being completely transparent, it worries me because she was a RU-vidr who gave out parenting and discipline advice. I get a lot of advice from RU-vid and I can’t imagine finding out that someone I took advice from ended up abusing their own children. I haven’t seen much her content because it’s been scrubbed from the internet. But I did see a few videos of her saying she withheld meals until the chores were done. She made a 6 year old responsible for packing her own lunch, and when she forgot it she wouldn’t bring it to her, and the child went hungry all day at school. I saw her threaten to cut off the head of a stuffed animal toy to her 5 year old who cut something she wasn’t supposed to. I also saw that she took away her son’s bed because he played a prank on the younger son who shared a room with him. She made him sleep on a bean bag for months. Maybe you could do a video on red flags to watch out for when it comes to parenting advice on the internet. As I observed the videos I couldn’t help but think her children were very misbehaved even though she was inflicting harsh (abusive) punishment on them. I wonder if it had something to do with her secretly wanting them to misbehave because it gave her content for her channel. I can imagine it would be confusing to a child when they do something wrong, you get all giddy and get your camera out to make a video of them and then threaten, or tell them their punishment on camera in front of the world to see…. The whole thing is disgusting.
In regards to Josh Duggar's case what are your thoughts and opinions regarding his wife Anna and her situation regarding her own choice to stay by her husband's side.
My opinion is it’s no one’s business except Anna’s to decide about what will happen in her own life with her own children and her relationship with her own husband. And, I think it’s presumptuous and wrong for people who have not been privy to any of her dealings with him, her family, parents or even children to make judgments about what she should do, to assume she is unintelligent, etc because she doesn’t do what they think she should. I also think she has handled the public scrutiny gracefully and doesn’t deserve to have the media demonize her for her husband’s actions. In other words, it’s none of our business what she decides to do.
@@MommyAnswerLady But, do you believe that Josh is guilty of the charges? Even after his conviction he has not admitted to any of the things he's done wrong and went as far to blame the crime on one of his former employee.
@@BC-wd5ut He admitted his guilt in inappropriately touching sisters. The child porn charges look as though he is guilty also. But I don’t really know what is true about that nor do you. We only have the information given us by a corrupt media, don’t we?
It’s not a cult--and I know lots of people involved in IBLP that are divorced. I have met them since investigating these kinds of claims. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
@@MommyAnswerLady I'm not speaking against Iblp/Gothard...I am asking questions regarding certain members of its congregation specifically Josh's inner circle whether they were right to support of his leniency to the point that he should be exonerated and pardoned from his crimes. And if there are any teachings in Iblp that qualifies regarding a father that no matter how egregious his actions and misdeeds are...a father should always be present to his own children no matter the circumstances.
Ginger was not in the documentary that was Jill and she’s also going to write a book as well. I think the character qualities are very good like you said it’s just a lot of people take it to the extreme. either way as Christians we need to be encouraging people and praying for people and pointing them to Christ the Bible has all answers.
@@MommyAnswerLady oh, OK and thank you for making this video. I agree people bash the duggarfamily so much, especially with what happened with Josh and I think we should pray for all of them. He made his own decision and I pray that he will truly truly turn to Jesus. also, their cousin Amy was in the documentary as well. I don’t know to me they seem like they want to bash their family versus. Ginger did it with grace and kindness and she did not bash her family.
Holly I hope you would give classes for the women at the Conference of restoration elders. Your presentation is excellent. Very informative. At these conferences they have classes for women however your instruction videos are wonderful I wish they would have asked you
when i hear of a scandal going on in a conservative Christian group, like with SHP, i look at the character of those doing the accusing. this documentary spoke volumes. in general, the documentary seems weird and scattered in several different directions. overall, it was trying to portray conservative Christians as a cult. i went away from this documentary with much less respect for the victims than they were hoping for. as for upholding godly principles in general? only the ungodly would say so.
Gosh you are so close. Good on you for not jumping all in. But the courtship rules. The camps for “troubled” youth. Also the duggars are def in a cult. The way they enabled Josh was horrible
Close to what? Having courtship rules doesn't make someone in a cult. That is family decision. Camps for troubled youth also doesn't make a cult. What I understand about cults is: They have a charismatic leader The leader rules supreme They gather in one place so leader can rule them all Anyone who breaks the rules is shunned or ostracized The rules include separating from family outside the cult The leader begins to break up families within the cult The leader begins to say he is God or speaks for God The leader takes sexual advantage of females in the group & husbands/fathers allow it There is no one the leader must answer to There are other criteria and other things that happen in cults. Let's look at the things here. Charismatic leader - yes. Leader rules supreme - no. (There was a board that oversaw the organization. There still is.) Gather to once place - no. Break rules - shunned or ostracized - no Separate families outside cult - no Leader breaks up families within - no Leader says he is God or speaks for God - no Leader takes sexual advantage or females - unknown Husbands/fathers agree - no Leader answers to no one - no (Board) So, what I can see here is that this is not a cult. And like I said in my video, some may treat it like one because of the way they implemented the concepts. That can happen with any set of beliefs. But was IBLP actually a cult? I don't think so from what I have read and what information I have seen, and from my own experience with IBLP in the past. I believe just like people can take things to an extreme in their own family or personally, that does not mean the concepts or teachings call for it. What I also have found out is that the people who have accused Mr. Gothard dropped their suit and did not want to go under deposition. Why? If he really did these horrid and criminal things, why drop it? Why not go under oath in that way, be filmed, and on the record? And why aren't those who claim truly egregious behavior by Gothard personally being interviewed with details about the abuse they claim to have suffered? Those who are interviewed are talking about their parents and their family situation that they blame on IBLP. One woman who is very outspoken online claims she was actually molested by her own father previous to her interaction in IBLP and had serious issues before ever going there. So sad. She doesn't claim Gothard ever did anything to her sexually but she thinks he was grooming her. Was he? And now she basically blames all her woes on Gothard and IBLP. Does that make sense? I'm sad for her, but it doesn't make sense to me. I'm open to a balanced view. There needs to be balance here and none is happening. That is not fair or right.
@@MommyAnswerLady you are correct about how most cults operate and what sets Gothard apart. Very unusual so I understand your argument. You are close to getting it but because of how different IBLP is, you’ve convinced yourself that Gothard is not a cult leader I have listened to quite a few people who grew up with IBLP and several women who were close to and specially chosen by Gothard and the guy was a creep. I can only assume they didn’t follow through the legal process because they knew the chance of winning was slim and they wanted to recover and move on They aren’t blaming HIM for their problems but it was a part of their story. I heard a guy talk of his experience at the youth camp. So much repression in following the ‘rules’. Just being a normal teenager having to sneak around to talk to a girl got him in trouble. You witnessed for yourself how just following the rules and principles could take you to extremism. Most of the people who went down the path had good intentions. But not everyone who got sucked in had the common sense you did and that’s where it got dangerous. Some of these people were homeschooled using ONLY IBLP materials. So no the organization was not like normal cults but so many who were the most obedient got sucked into a cult mentality. Kids have been traumatized growing up the way your friends kids did. Bill Gothard was a leader. Followers did take his word as truth and law. Are you blaming the people who followed him for their own dis function?
I am not blaming anyone at this point. But, I am saying that the documentary is not balanced and not fair. And, I am also saying I believe good intentions were all around -- both in IBLP and in the parents who follow(ed) it. ANY set of beliefs can be taken to an extreme. How about we see a documentary that shows both sides, one that goes into the court proceedings and presents both sides views on that - and why it was dropped? How about we find a REAL HONEST producer who is willing to look into the materials and find out if the claims that are being made are actually true? This documentary and others also seem to blame IBLP for sexual misconduct by people who were in it. Why? Is there anything in the materials, concepts or teachings that in any way promotes or suggests sexual misbehavior is appropriate? Where? The answer is... no. But that is also an accusation flying around everywhere. And LOTS of people who never heard of IBLP are involved in all kinds of sexual misconduct. But because Josh was, now it is also blamed on IBLP and on his parents. That's just ridiculous. Just like the leftist media is always lying to us and putting forward a narrative that it wants to promote, so is this kind of hit piece. And it's not balanced or fair.
@@MommyAnswerLady yes having rules when you are cording or dating, there’s nothing wrong with that you keep being pure for God until marriage also with the whole Josh situation, I think they did the best that they knew how but he is his own person, and he made his own decisions and they were absolutely horrible decisions, and I truly hope and pray that he turns truly to Jesus Christ
@@MommyAnswerLady yes I agree that it wasn’t fairly represented. I think it what we all should do is look at it from all sides and also remember that no one’s perfect besides Jesus and I think we should also pray and look to the Bible for answers.
