Was Mankar Camoran on to Something? | The 7 Pillars of Mythic Dawn Faith 

Thanks for watching the video! Please let me know what I got right, what I got wrong, and any of your opinions on the points made. Links in the description for those who want to view the Commentaries themselves. Likes (or dislikes), shares, comments, and subscriptions would all help me out a ton. My Twitch: www.twitch.tv/emerdareloth40 Discord Server: discord.gg/v8JJ8tqr. Thanks, -Dareloth

I wonder if Dagon was giggling as he was writing the first Gnostic Bible and throwing it to Nirn like Ryuk.

It's kinda crazy how the beginning of the game is the Emperor getting stuck by a rando cultist in a sewer. You have to respect the hustle from a bunch of jobbers.

The tortures in Camoran's paradise were meant to make the cultists spirits the same as daedras who fear no death or torment like mortals. It was no punishment but part of the process to refine them into true immortals who care nothing for what happens to their body since it will be reborn, just like the daedra. It seems in the game like no one really explained this to the cultists or they just really hate the process which anyone would. Eventually going mad and then reforging their spirit into something that's the goal, something that's been tortured enough might take years.

It's kinda hard to appreciate Mankar from what little screentime he got, but dude surely is an achiever. His "paradise" and the fact that he replicated daedra's reincarnation in Oblivion after their death on Nirn is very impressive.

He just entered "showracemenu" in the command consol

39:29 if you check mythic dawn commentaries 4 and vivecs sermon 28 (and a couple other sources uesp cites) it says that the magna-ge created mehrunes dagon to put an end to molag bal’s and the dreughs tyrannical rule over lyg. He is “the razor”, imbued with hope to cut down molag bal. Dagon’s whole thing is not just destruction for its own sake, but for revolution, which is why mankar Cameron is working with him specifically to “free” the mundus.

You Absolute Legend. I can't believe how detailed and original this lore dive is. You know you're deep in the rabbit hole when you get redirected to adult entertainment sites. Your voice acting is brilliant, btw I want that Mythic Dawn mug!

Truly fascinating, if only mehrunes Dagon was ever portayed as having a shade of nuance in the game.

Everyone : Oh no ! The dragonfire is dying ! Scalibois : Oh no ! We can't colonise hell fast enough !

Now THIS scratches my tism real good

I got so fuckin' giddy seeing this vid; the Mythic Dawn could've had such potential, and I love delving into it like this.

Remember, Dagon is not just the prince of destruction, he is change and revolution. This is why Dagon targets the status quo, why his artifact, mehrunes razor, changes reality itself. I think that the paradise is as it is because Dagon is not attempting to create a new status quo, he is seeking to destroy the current one. The Dawn members don’t understand this and thus are tortured, they sought power from being downtrodden. Dagon also allows you as the player to enter paradise and kill Camaron, thus destroying the potential new status quo created by the Dawn.

You do a pretty good impression of Terrence Stamp's accent and cadence for Camoran

What I’ve never bought into is the idea that Mehrunes Dagon, as Prince of Change and Revolution, would install a world order wherein the faithful are “set above all mortals” forever. It seems antithetical to his sphere and nature to desire that outcome.

Thank you sm for finding and compiling all of this juicy lore into an awesome video- I’ve always been fascinated by the Mythic Dawn and Camoran, and this definitely tickled the tism 🔥

Damn, the algorithm finally did right by me with recommending this video. Amazingly done man, definitely gonna sub and watch more of your stuff! Nothing better than an incredibly researched Elder Scrolls deep dive like this; keep it up. I feel like this channel is about to blowup!

I went to Gaiar Alata and all I got was this lousy eternity of suffering and pain.

The Dareloth Commentaries of the Mythic Dawn

wth you're only a small channel? this is amazing stuff!

Cameron's speech is probably my favourite thing in TES.

Low key one of the best TES lore videos I've seen! Deep cuts and no superfluous fluff.

Very glad I've found your channel. I really like the way you've done this video, hopefully a lot more to come 🙏

These videos are great!! I can't believe you don't have more views man you really dig deep for the details hope more people find them

Good stuff man, keep it up!

damn you really went down the rabbit hole for this one! i personally love the view of dagon as a prince of hope and find it a really interesting perspective. great coverage of the commentaries and camoran here dude

very well put together, enjoyed

This video was so well made.

Love the lore deep dives. I’ll keep watching them if you keep making them.

I think he WAS onto something, Dagon clearly has more going on than we originally thought, far from right about everything but changing to an altmer and wearing the amulet of kings, the tools he discovered certainly worked. I’ve never believed all Daedra are evil, pretty Dunmerish on that, but Dagon was NOT in my list of positive Daedra.

Great video.

Great video this is really captivating work 👏

Nymics are fucking cool as an aspect of TES lore and I'd love someone to go in depth on them. From swordsmen who learn the true names of their blades to wizards trying to understand an aspect of magic so hard they learn a nymic

Honestly, that's a sick mug. Well played.

love this kind of lore videos keep it up

Very good video!

Great video, very interesting topic!

Amazing Video! Loved the Charakter back in my teens! Thanks for the Lore! Keep up the work! I'd love to see a break down of the Gods and their followings! :D

Peak mythic dawn lore

Mankar being Bosmeri just blew my mind.. I think that is particularly awesome 💯

Top tier video

Mythic Dawn is the Left Hand Path for Tamriel.

I always appreciate when you bring in Elder Scrolls Legends content to help your theory's. I feel it gives you a unique perspective and evidence. I don't see Lore videos from more established channels referencing Legends very often. This video was so good I just want to add a reminder your still mortal. At 42:42 there's two small typos..

Well, I'm convinced. Gonna join the Mythic Dawn!

This is great. You have a new sub.

Nice. Good video.

Just found this channel, this is a wonderful video, please do more of these on TES topics :)

The mention of the “Waters of Oblivion” is a pretty good indicator that they are related to Mundus. A lot of Kirkbride’s terminology and concepts are the same as real life ones or at least reference them, The Waters in our world refers to this conditioned realm we exist in but also tends to include any other realm that has a Dependant existence. A common theme in mystic characters who attain great divinity is that they overcome The Waters (Jesus walks upon water, Mithras crosses the river, the Buddha tells you to grasp the other shore [additional note I’m fairly sure the Shore allegory is used multiple times in TES]), their art is considered Royal (Chim) which they use to become more than all the Gods before them. But that extra part is a bit off track, a discussion for elsewhere.

This is only a thought, I have no evidence to back this up, and there may in fact be information in the lore that contradicts this. What if Mehrunes Dagon was in fact created by the Magne ge in lyg, but they created him using either the corpse or Nymic of Lorkhan? This would explain why they are both the Daedric Prince of change, and why Mankar is associated specifically with Dagon and not any of the other Princes. It would also make Dagon, quite literally, heartless. This could explain his somewhat brutal nature, despite the intentions of the Magne ge when creating him to reclaim mundus.

I forgot Camoran stated Dagon would "remake" the world. The amount of times some star-aligned halfwit saved the world from its apparently natural kalpar (calpar? Calpa? Kal...) recycle is getting kind of outrageous. I'm an Alduin apologist at this point. Jagged brother was just the final boss of nature when Sean Bean stopped Dagon from doing Dagon shit. When do we just, you know, let the world end? It's the only way to "bring the Dwemer back" probably, too. Is the Dreamer in a coma at this point because of how long this current cycle is? Where's the philosophical "can we/should we" regarding the world-ending threat of the week? TES6 is just gonna be TES4 and 5 in a new location with no new commentary on anything, isn't it? Honestly, at this point, I'm sick of saving the world. Where's my RPG choice to just let it happen? Maybe I wanted to join Mankar Camoran... like who doesn't want to follow the guy who basically made his own Daedric realm? That's crazy. You know what? You've convinced me. I'm joining a cult.

Your video needs to be included in all copies of Oblivion

THANK YOU!!! For, like, almost 20 years, I wondered WTF "protonymic" referred to.

I think "oath breakers" refer to Magnus and the Magna Ge, who fled Mundus soon after it's creation without having completed their "oath" to it's creation like the Aedra and Ehlonfey

In Egyptian mythos, a scarab is a powerful symbol among all the people, an icon of wealth and fortune to the middle class and a seal of power and authority when used by the high class. It was commonly associated with Khepri, a scarab himself who arose to divinity from a ball of dung and represented the rising sun (not necessarily the full sun itself) and the act of creation itself in emulation of the universal creator. Tamriel ae Daedroth, Tamriel is Daedra(/oth), Scarab ae Aurbex, likely Scarab is Universe (aurbis). In continuing with the sermon, Mankar reasons that aedra lack the divine spark, authority, or royalty in itself to rule the universe as a godhead, they are not truly gods under this definition. Kirkbride likely had CHIM, the syllable of royalty, on his mind in this context, the act of mortals attaining divinity through a meta understanding of the dream they inhabit, using the trials of Lorkhan and the mundus as a stepping stone to find the godhead, which Vivec was accredited with accomplishing, and Tiber Septim/Talos likely came to understand as well.

I'm eating this video. great work!

Quality video! Solid take on Mankar Camoran. Shame he didn't get more screen time in TES IV. In my opinion, he's the best villain in TES series because of the quality writing and charismatic voice acting, particularly his Gaiar Alata speech. Opportunity was wasted, however, because it could have been so much better.

Can't wait for skyblivion!

I’d like to see Celia Camoran make an appearance in TES VI She’s mentioned in the Thieves Guild quest about receiving an Elder Scroll

LETS GO!!

This reminded me a lot of the 9th gate

Ok, I'll join if I get the sick bound armor.

A theory I've had about Mankar and his bosmeri ancestry: he was able to discover and alter his protonymic because of his bosmeri heritage. What are the bosmer famous for? Shapeshifting! Using Mehrunes Razor to manipulate the usually uncontrollable shifting that bosmer do via the Wild Hunt.

Great deep dive. Did you used to read for Last Level Press? Great voice.

He used the Mehrunes' Razor and changed his race and birth sign to wear the amulet of kings

I think Mankar being an Altmer has less to do with his actual lineage, and more to do with gameplay. This way he can be tall (and more imposing), and he does have a darker complexion that bosmer typically have

To this day, I wish there was a way to actually side with Mankar

NU-MANTIA! LIBERTY!

Only 18 minutes in so maybe this is said in the video but... Oh shit, if only daedra are known to have nymics and Mankar Camoran was able to change his Nymic, that kind of gives a lot of credence to his idea that Nirn is a daedric realm and mortals are the daedroths within

Only 45 minutes long? Damn.

Well I’m convinced. Where do I join?

Iirc, Dagon was created to overthrow the Dreugh, both as a prince of hope and revolution. That doesn't make him "Good" though, as hope for something Different doesn't always lead to things becoming better.

Mankor Cameran, more like Wankor Cameran am I right guys.

I'm impressed: That's nearly an English accent.

So here's the thing. This stuff is mostly interpretation. Aedra/daedra, mundus/oblivion, mortal/immortal, it's all contextual. Mortals dont get destroyed pn death, their souls just go to another plane, to exist forever, or recycled. Maybe if there were no afterlife planes, mortals would simply be reborn like daedra. Or maybe daedra are only reborn because their prince actively wills it, and lorkhan is too dead (most of the time, remember wulfharth?) to do that.

COMMENT FOR THE ALGRORITHIM

What are your thoughts on Duke of Whale's theory about the Mythic Dawn? I'm paraphrasing but basically he wondered if there was a false populism element to the cult, as most of the cultists are in the lower level of society and citizens feeling abandoned by their leaders enough to join a cult ties into the empire's decline even before Uriel's death.

Apparently Mankar used Mehrunes Razor to change his race

If Mankar Camoran truly has a nymic then is it not both possible that Tar-Meena is correct he wrote the commentaries during Tiber Septim's time and that the was born into the refugees in his new form?

Now talk about the faith of The One

28:28 guys please remind me where is this footage from? thanks!

I think Daedra, Aedra and the Magna Ge are all sorta the same and any celestial body whether it’s a star or a planet can constitute as a plane of oblivion. The only real heroes are the Ehlnofey who gave mortals a place to live. Part of the reason for this idea is not all the daedra have interest in taking over the Nirn and have in some ways albeit indirectly contributed to preventing it I mean imagine Nirn if Dagoth Ur had been successful Azura literally being like my Champion gonna reincarnate. Also look at Akatosh has dragons running around legit had to let mortals have same powers just to defend themselves seems kinda complacent what if a Dragonborn fucks up next time.

Yeah he was on a skooma fueled trip that would even make Vivec zero-sum!

He just wanted someone to ask him what's lygma :(

wooo! 45 mins long elders scrolls video!

Could Mankar's mom not gotten a little strange?

Per me é malvagio in quanto costringe e la costrizione in ogni caso lo trovo una cosa malvagia anche se non usa la forza ma la convizione é male lo stesso. Una persona deve sempre essere libera di scegliere. Infatti mi da fastidio anche di non potermi liberare del gioiello e dover fare per forza la missione principale. Giocare così non va bene. In Morrowind 3 ho sempre avuto la possibilità di scegliere o meno se fare la missione principale o essere un tizio qualunque in Morrowind 4 no.

I kinda don't like Mythic Dawn story, cause it really doesn't seem to be Dagon's MO. A whole fake us cult? Like, if you use him as Lord of (False) Hope, then maybe you can stretch it, but then it would need to be at least somewhat based in truth. That's why my headcanon is that he told basicallu the truth, just changed details about what he will bring. He promised Paradise, he just named a special place in hell such. I'm a Lorkhan truther, that difference between Aedra and Eadra is trully only whether they used their being for creation and nothing more substantial. And that some of them became mad when they realized what's happening, whether or not they were tricked. Some escaped, becommong Magna Ge and some couldn't becomming Aedra. And some weren't mad at all becomming Earthbones. Eadra punished Lorkhan by locking him basically dead via the powers of Deadra of Time known as Auriel. But as Time is close to Change, Auriel were split between his stance on Lorkhan's plan and had to order himself as to not become paradoxical, first he lived as Auri-El, the punisher of Lorkhan, the one who documented Magni Ge escape and shows all who wish to escape as well how to do so - the father of elves, the Auriel, guardians of humans, those who wish to experience mortality and live their changing life to the fullest, and finally Alduin, the eater of words, the one who will destroy the Lorkhan's creation. Surprisingly, it would be the opposite order for Auriel's perspective. First he was mad and destroying what he helped create. Then he's seen how humans protect it with all their might and became endeared by them. And then he saw all the pain it caused those who wished to escape and decided to help them. Adamantium Convention was nothing more than Auriel ordering time such that everyone would be as happy as possible with the outcome. Dagon in this theory would be Magna Ge's attempt as saving those trapped, their "False Hope", a destructor of the "prison". Mundus would have started as Lorkhan's plane of Oblivion, but sacrificed by him to created something more with other princes. It's unique due to that, but not centre of universe, as Oblivion is infinite and it only seems it's centerednon Mundus, cause from Mundus only those princes are seen that wish to interact with Mundus, therefore all interaction seems centered on Mundus.

Camoran says Mundus is Daedric as if that has any meaning. Aedra/Daedra are not different types of entities, but merely translates to “our ancestors/not our ancestors”. Edit: and of course you just said the same thing right after I commented this lol

pronouncing an IRC channel with "hashtag" is killing me

Why can’t Mankar’s race just be explained by Illusion magic? While the player never has access to spells such as these, there’s no reason they can’t exist as a theory. Given Mankar’s obvious magical potential, he may even be able to truly modify his mortal body.

i hate when lore channels cite kirkbride as a source. its literally fanfiction

No. You are welcome.