Was Sauron More Powerful Than Morgoth? 

No. No he was not. Not even close. Weird that they even had to ask it?

Facts

Should have been "so did he ever match the power of morgoth? No, no he didn't..."

It depends on what time period you want to compare the two really. With each Valar, their strengths were not unlimited. Meaning that during the creation of Arda each Valar involved with its creation used up a great portion of their strength and once depleted, that strength never returned while they inhabited the physical world. For example, Yavana created the two great trees and once they were destroyed by melkor and ungolient, she lacked the power to create two new trees. This is why the Valar sought the silmirs because a portion of that light was in them. Melkor was the strongest Valar but he used up vast amounts of his strength unmaking what was sung into creation by the other Valar. He expended great power corrupting the world and by the end of the first age he was a mere shadow of his former self. He could not even heal himself from the wounds given to him by Fingolfin and forever after their battle he walked with a limp. At the point when Sauron held all of the rings except for the 3 elven ones their powers where pretty close.

@@decimalexercise7154 I don’t think Sauron is anything against Morgoth even when Morgoth is a shade of himself. All his armies come from Morgoth, so surely they would also obey him over Sauron and the balrogs basically serve him so if there are any that survived, they would join him. Everything Sauron has is Morgoth’s in a way.

But what about when he became a mortal when he touched the Silmaril

"Sauron was 'greater', effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Why? Because, though he was far smaller by natural stature, he had not yet fallen so low. Eventually he also squandered his power (of being) in the endeavour to gain control of others. But he was not obliged to expend so much of himself." -HoME X, Morgoth's Ring

Exactly. Morgoth can 1 v 1 any of the Valar let alone a Maia…

@@vermili0n Morgoth barely even defeated Fingolfin. At that point any one of the Valar might have crushed him. The Dark Lord had fallen a long way from Melkor, having expended most of his power and dissipating his being into the matter of Arda itself.

@@vermili0n Uh Tulkas stomped him.

Crazy how his ''ex'' then threatened to kill him when he didn't give her the jewels she asked for.... Honestly, they need to go to a relationship therapy 😂

Lmaoooo

Saùron was bested by huan

Peth meth head)))))

who are the two homeless guys?

Can you explain a bit more?

@@joot4949 It was a religious concept for Tolkien. Sauron was still more complete with more of his original angelic soul and powers intact. Morgoth had lost some of his - the ability to walk unclad or change form, but he was still leagues more powerful than Sauron. So while Sauron may still have had access most of his original powers and while he was even more powerful with the one ring, Morgoth's remaining power pool still dwarfed Sauron's. This is a spiritual concept about living in accordance with God's Will and God's Plan. Morgoth went against Illuvatar's Plan and was diminshed as a result of it. There's a quote from Morgoth's Ring in the Essay Myth's Transformed that again reiterates Morgoth's Supremacy over Sauron: "Melkor was not Sauron. We speak of him being 'weakened, shrunken, reduced' ; but this is in comparison with the Great Valar. " Tolkien was meticulous with his words. Greater 'effectively' is not the same as more powerful.

@@nwobw I’m seeing a lot of this bs now comparing Sauron and Morgoth, some saying that Sauron has surpassed his master. Like hell he did there is a big gap between the two one is Valar and the other is Maia. I think that should answer them all. But oh well

Smarter

@@hoshmendakrem1940 you said exactly what I was thinking, thank you.

Their mistake was entering into the mortal plane. Everything in Arda is subject to decay over time, even the gods.

No, the ring only enhanced Saurons power and it was not a mistake

@@riceserket4093 The one ring didn’t enhance Sauron’s power. It just preserved some of the innate strength he still possessed and served as check of sorts to the decaying nature of Arda. The other rings had similar powers which is why Rivendell and Lothlorien were paradises on earth while the surrounding areas were a wasteland.

It wasn't really a mistake, if they didn't do what they did, they would've been crushed by the forces of good. Morgoth as strong as he is, would get wrecked the moment 2-3 valars showed up. He needed an army to fight on many locations so he could distract his enemies. Sauron had Morgoth's remaining forces, but it was proven when he died that he could never faced the entire middle earth alone. He needed them to weaken themselves because on an head-on fight, even with his power and divinity, he would still lose when facing the elves. The elves killed balrogs and dragons before, the dwarves killed dragons, and men we're too many, this shows that they have the ability to kill powerful beings.

@@thepieofyourlife4799 It was a mistake. Saukeraut should've put his ring in a place where it couldn't be severed. The guy was a noob villain pretending to big shit.

The One ring was a insurance which saved Sauron. He could be defeated totally without the ring, but when ring and him did separated, he survived through the Ring. Like he was immortal and undefeatable like Voldemort with his horcuraxes.

Tolkien said that while the Ring endured that power was still in rapport with Sauron and Sauron wasn't actually weaker.

@@TheIgdrasil1 Sauron was immortal even before he created the One Ring. When the Ring was destroyed, he was just left without a physical body and with so little power that he couldn't threaten Middle Earth ever again. He also wasn't undefeatable with the Ring. The Numenoreans completely destroyed his army and forced him to flee back to Mordor, and Elendil and Gil-galad were able to mortally wound Sauron's physical body during their duel with him at the end of the War of the Last Alliance.

So what you’re saying is… don’t get married? GOTCHA!

@@dr.bright3081 😝. If that’s the way you want to play it

Christian lores weird, check me if I'm wrong, but the devil is lucifer yes, and lucifer makes more sense as sauron imo. Someone who didn't want chaos and destruction, but order through tyranny, someone who fell from grace and was seduced by darkness. Another mirror image is Morgoth being Darth Sidious, and Sauron being Vader

⁠​⁠@@kadefrost218Tolkein literally said the only reason he created Morgoth is to create Lucifer in his books…so yeah…maybe not 100% similar…but Morgoth was based on Lucifer

@@donchi1234 I hear that, and like I said I'm not a Christian by any means and my lore is rusty, so check me if I'm wrong. Buy didn't lucifers revolt against God come from them disagreeing about punishment for human sin or sum like that. Similar to sauron in that he wanted order, but was dogmatic and narcissistic and saw his own order as the only correct one. If Tolkien said morgoth is lucifer, then morgoth is lucifer. But idk, personally he sauron seems to fit lucifer more

Nah , in terms of power Tulkas better

@@kadefrost218 Lucifer wasn't actually ever stated or named in the Bible, it was just made up over the years.

7

"I'll finish what you started" -Sauron holding a crappy version of the iron crown since he doesn't have the real one, directed by Kathleen Kennedy.

@@grassblock7668 Kathleen Kennedy big part of my childhood! She's a legend! Who cares about Star wars

@@brandondetroitfanmichaels4325 Is this meant to trigger me lmao?it didn't work

Lol

I think in the creation story the supreme god purposefully made melkor to go against his siblings. I feel like he is supposed to represent chaos/destruction maybe

I know this is late, but Sauron was surprisingly loyal to Morgoth, worst case he feared him so much he would rather not face him for punishment, knowing how awful it would be. Went he tried to "repent" he made it seem like he was the victim and had no say, when in reality he reveled in cruelty just as much as his master did, if not more.

The thing is, Morgoth was just so stupidly powerful, he could afford to just throw power at all his problems. And, sorry, there was never a point where Sauron was more powerful than Melkor. The quote the poster is referring to is "Greater Effectively". Tolkien was referring to Sauron's ability to use all his angelic powers, many of which Morgoth had lost through his abuse of his powers. But Morgoth was still INSANELY MORE POWERFUL than a Maia, any Maia could ever be. If Sauron was a nuclear reactor, Melkor was the Sun.

​@@Appachoppa112I think so too. Eru knew Melkor was bad but let him go to Arda.

I like to tink thet Sauron bake stab Morgoth wend, Morgoth trops were losing the batele and Morgoth wasn't expecting.

Came to say the same.

HAHAHAHAH winner. That's what I also noticed

Hahahahah

Thank you, I opened the comments for this

Sow-whan-car

He's more like an archangel and sauron as an angel

@@peterfile5027 facts

Morgoth depleted much of his power, and at one point, he was almost defeated by an elve, he did not want to fight the duel, but he knew he had to else he would appear like a weakling coward to his minions

To be fair sauron is also a god to a lesser extent.

​@@peterfile5027 exactly

OG Dark Lord was humiliated by an Elf in duel, but I agree, in a physical combat, Sauron even in his prime would lose against weakest Morgoth, due to Sauron not even being a decent fighter by any means, he was pupil of Aule, so he mastered crafting, smithing and such, but not how to fight in his physical form, had he been pupil of Tulkas for example, then he'd clearly have a chance 😀

@@doesnotreallymatterr humiliated by who? A desperate Fingolfin wounded him (and he was one of the greatest and strongest elf) but he was smashed (and Melkor was already weakened at that time). Wars against him reshaped middle earth. And Sauron was almost defeated by a shiver of Narsil. I mean, this is a simplification, too :) But Silmarillion is a Story about a Golden Age with absolute Good vs absolute Evil, which slowly become a more complex and intricate fight between weak good creatures (humans) and weak evilish and tempting creatures (maiar Sauron, Saruman and so on). It looks to me a Tolkien's warning to contemporary men (and we should be the last Numeroneans......)

Any of the Valar would get wiped out 1V1 vs Morgoth, let alone any of their Maia SERVANTS lol

I mean Tulkas literally threw Melkor in air while dueling, then chained him and took to Valinor, actually even before that duel occured, just a mere arrival of Tulkas, made Melkor flee from him, we need to understand that Melkor being most powerful among the Vala does not necessarily mean brute strength, but rather magical powers, because he could literally summon vulcanic eruptions and spawn a fire on lands as huge as kingdoms.

Unsub?

They were 4😮

@@danielcastellvi2994 I meant the three hobbits that were there at Mount Doom.

He was defeated by eru the strongest being in tolkienverse. he pushed gollum along with the one ring into mount doom.

No, it only took tulkas, dude, even Orome could capture him ( I'm referring to the time he was with ungolianth)

@@thotslayer9922 Eru is not a being as such but God Himself. But He worked through others.

He originally served a different 'god' so he probably would

ye, and he wouldn't be corrupted either :D

@Darklord Samoht Aule* not Mandos

Sauron was created by Iluvitar in the great music (effictively God) but was corrupted by Melkor/Morgoth. Incidentally, Sauron was one of the most powerful Miar spirits along with Melian.

@@stephenhopkins6738 I don't think Melian was powerful as Sauron. We know only that Melian was 'a Maiar of great power' but she was not counted as a chief Maiar (or "Lords of the Maiar) Sauron at the other hand is the one Maia who broke the power of Vala Ulmo(the second most powerful Valar) within the Tol Sirion and later defied the lightning strike of Manwe at Numenor (Manwe is the most powerful Valar*)

exactly 🤣

Lol

Sauron got smoked before, when Eru rip Nurmenor apart :))

But the confusion could come from the text. Here is what the text says: _"Sauron was 'greater', effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Why? Because, though he was far smaller by natural stature, he had not yet fallen so low. Eventually he also squandered his power (of being) in the endeavour to gain control of others. But he was not obliged to expend so much of himself._ _To gain domination over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth - hence all things that were born on Earth and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be 'stained'._ _Morgoth at the time of the War of the Jewels had become permanently 'incarnate': for this reason he was afraid, and waged the war almost entirely by means of devices, or of subordinates and dominated creatures._ _Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to dominate. In this way Sauron was also wiser than Melkor-Morgoth._ _Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he probably knew more of the 'Music' than did Melkor, whose mind had always been filled with his own plans and devices, and gave little attention to other things._ _The time of Melkor's greatest power, therefore, was in the physical beginnings of the World; a vast demiurgic lust for power and the achievement of his own will and designs, on a great scale._ _And later after things had become more stable, Melkor was more interested in and capable of dealing with a volcanic eruption, for example, than with (say) a tree. It is indeed probable that he was simply unaware of the minor or more delicate productions of Yavanna: such as small flowers."_ _"Morgoth's Ring"_ chapter/section _"Notes on the motives in the Silmarillion"_

i agree lotr is the best universe but i like forgotten realms aswell

He did not die, he could no longer take form or power. The description used 'A spirit of malice wandering the world unable to take form and power'.(Not exact des., as it has been a while since reading the LOTR.

Sauwon : _"I wam the dawk lowd, i wiww conquwew middwe-eawth! I am eviw! OwO"_

Sauwon : _"I wam the dawk lowd, i wiww conquwew middwe-eawth! I am eviw! OwO"_

Even still the ending of the world the “Dagor Dagorath” is led by Morgoth

He isn't his stronger servant is Gothmog then Sauron or (I forget name of dragon)

@@andrijanastic1480 smaug?

@@hummazhughes766 nah, either glaurum or ancalagon the black!

@@joot4949 oh ok

@@joot4949 thnx

Y ou clearly don't know others stories. ;-) Star wars and others ...

Cant confirm that but Melkor was one of if not the strongest of the Ainur so even on his weakest day he would ez clap Sauron. Dont know the sense of this video

@@elite1361 In the first chapter of the silmarillion it says Melkor was the strongest of them all

@@wolfsbane9985 Yes at the beginning he was, but dont forget that he weakened himself with every evil he brought into middle earth, as he was the source of all evil. The more evil creatures there were, the weaker he became. Also he would have been devoured by Ungoliath if it werent for his balrogs and he was scared of Tulkas, one of the strongest Ainur. And not long into the first era he was weak enough that he was physically injured by Fingolfin when they duelled. At one point he was the strongest being to ever exist on middle earth but this strenght didnt last forever, as he flooded the world with his evil energy.

@@elite1361 that's why it's said that Sauron at the height of his power was greater than Morgoth at the end of the 1st age. Some people debate what "greater" truly means, but I personally believe Sauron with the ring was more powerful than Morgoth when he was defeated in the 1st age

@@elite1361 I don't think he was the strongest Ainur because what about Tulkas the champion when he first appeared Melkor ran away and hit

That was after Morgoth poured much of his strength into corrupting the world and its life like making Dragons and Orcs. Before he nerfed himself Melkor was clearly stated to be the most powerful

@@johno1544 No, in the tolkien world power doesn't mean physical power Melkor is mightiest all Valar but probably Melkor can't defeat Oromê in the begining. Impossible any Valar can beat Tulkas on battle.

@@huseyind4g no bro morgoth literally poured alot of his powers to weaken and control earth and take on all other valar so looking at this tulkas took the opportunity to eradicate morgoth . I want morgoth to come back to demonstrate some stuff

Tulkas could match Morgoth in physical strength, but his supernatural abilities and magics were untouchable.

@@GrizbyK72 what???? what does this even mean! Morgoth wasn’t “known” for magic, THEYRE ALL GODS that can create life

Bro you should read the books, they’re so good it’s criminal not to

Give me sauron is more brilliant than morgoth

Man Sauron is much weaker then Melkor maybe smarter but not stronger Melkor been maybe second or third strongest Aratar

@@andrijanastic1480 I wonder what happen if morgoth use the same trick as sauron and not just only using brute force. will he win ?

@@darkwarlocks9823 no probably not because Aratars precise Manwe

@@andrijanastic1480 I said he is not physically stronger in the comment

Depends on people's interpretation if even that is a fair competition. _"Sauron was 'greater', effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Why? Because, though he was far smaller by natural stature, he had not yet fallen so low. Eventually he also squandered his power (of being) in the endeavour to gain control of others. But he was not obliged to expend so much of himself._ _To gain domination over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth - hence all things that were born on Earth and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be 'stained'._ _Morgoth at the time of the War of the Jewels had become permanently 'incarnate': for this reason he was afraid, and waged the war almost entirely by means of devices, or of subordinates and dominated creatures._ _Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to dominate. In this way Sauron was also wiser than Melkor-Morgoth._ _Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he probably knew more of the 'Music' than did Melkor, whose mind had always been filled with his own plans and devices, and gave little attention to other things._ _The time of Melkor's greatest power, therefore, was in the physical beginnings of the World; a vast demiurgic lust for power and the achievement of his own will and designs, on a great scale._ _And later after things had become more stable, Melkor was more interested in and capable of dealing with a volcanic eruption, for example, than with (say) a tree. It is indeed probable that he was simply unaware of the minor or more delicate productions of Yavanna: such as small flowers."_ _"Morgoth's Ring"_ chapter/section _"Notes on the motives in the Silmarillion"_