Was the most innovative submarine design of WWII successful? The German Type XXI submarine 

As a U.S. submarine veteran, I think this was a very interesting video . . . . While I had some knowledge of the German Types VII & IX U-boats, I knew nothing of the Type XXI & did not even realize that the Germans had been able to deploy any Type XXI U-boats during WW II. Thank you for the very interesting video!

You covered aspects of XXI performance that has long been shrouded between propaganda and extremely limited wartime testing. Very informative.

If they were built competently, and carefully outfitted with the batteries and quality engines they would have had as if assembled under ideal conditions, they would have met those paper statistics. But by the time they were being launched off the slipways, half of Germany had been turned to rubble. Not to mention the fact that half the subs components were assembled with unwilling slave labor. Thankfully for those reasons, these subs fell far enough from their design goals to affect the war, but still came close enough that they inspired the next generation of allied submersible craft.

Very informative. My father was in the Canadian navy in WWII and was very impressed with what he knew of the type XXI, but this video has given me a better understanding of what it could and couldn't do.

This is very interesting. The Type 21 & 23 designs were the first of a new class with new technology and ideas. No wonder the aims set out were so far ahead of actual performance. There were drastic limitations in building any brand new design at that time when everything was under such drastic pressure in German war industry. Post war, without those problems, Other nations took the best WW2 ideas and tried to learn from them.

To turn out technology of this quality in this time frame is amazing.

Interesting video and fascinating research. One take away is why this submarine was an important precursor of the Holy Grail - the Nuclear Submarine.

The U S Navy had the Tang class diesel electric boat , which design was taken from the type 21 , most people don’t know that the U S Navy operated diesel boats thru the 80s. I served on the Tang , SS563 , and the Wahoo ,SS565

If they were looking for ACTUAL facts and figures of the Type XXI, all they had to do was ask the Kriegsmarine - the Wilhelm Bauer (formerly U-2540) IS a Type XXI that was scuttled at the end of WW2, and raised in 1957, refurbished and RECOMMISSIONED in 1960. It was in ACTIVE SERVICE until 1983. It is now a Museum.

VVery informative and bebunks many of the attributes of the Type XXI

Bravo Sir! Excellent videos!

Prof. Eberhard Rössler's study of German ww1 & ww2 German sumarines tells a different story

Very interesting and well researched....the archival footage is also outstanding! Thank you!

I still think that "elektroboot" sounds like it is describing German disco music circa 1975.

As I recall it, one of the new things with the type 21 was, that it was made in "slices" all fully equiped, and ready to be welded together, comming from all over the country on barges via the canalsystem. But nice video, I am surprized it wasn´t better. I have heard a lot over the years, so quite strange to have to chance ones point of view...

An interesting summary of a key vessel in modern submarine development. An obvious question, revealed by your excellent research: Why were the type XII's not fitted out with the engines specified in the original plans? I suspect the level of damage the allied bombing campaign inflicted on the program was a factor. thank you for posting.

Thanks for keeping history alive. It was amazing the things that were developed in WWII. My father flew 52 missions in B17s.

Thanks for the work. Much appreciated.

A fascinating video and a different take on what I expected. IIRC, only 2(?) saw combat service (each for one patrol?) so it's difficult to know how well they might have done. The second pair of small motors was a brilliant idea, making them exceptionally quiet especially if they could dive deep. Their passive sonar was excellent for the time. Had one gotten into a convoy they could have let loose 18 torpedos in 20 minutes so it was mostly the "fault" of Allied escorts being efficient as much as the boat design. As I understand, it was their ability to stay submerged that could have made them more survivable. A Type VII could remain down for about 14 hours, while this model could stay down 75 hours, before lack of air and battery forced them to surface. Albert Speer attempted to use the US model... build sections and assemble. That worked great for the US but many of the assemblies were inexpertly built. Had it worked they could have rolled off the assembly line in significant numbers starting in 1943. It was a good enough sub that Pres Truman took a dive to 440 feet in U-2513 in 1946, when part of the USN. The Soviets acquired 4, built 15 more from parts, and may have assembled another 39 at captured plants, and France kept one in active duty until 1967. They may have had problems, but were still excellent boats though requiring significant service.

Very well done and very informative.

Really informative thank you

Thanks Becks, very interesting. I'd imagine the Allies were extremely concerned when they heard about this submarine, it would have been a definite game-changer if they'd managed to iron out all the teething problems. I guess quality control is an issue, when the workforce is primarily slave-labour and the Allies would be doing their best to raze any facility suspected of producing parts for this sub, to the ground. I'm looking forward to viewing the rest of your content, subbed.

Enlightening Presentation - Subscribed!

Good work, keep it going👍

Top notch video.

Having visited a type 21 U boat at Bremerhaven in 2019, I was fascinated by your video. Well done in making it so informative.

Thanks!

Most interesting! I'd always thought that the Type XXI was a "super" submarine. Thank you for educating me on this.

Good job, Jon!

Very interesting video. CONGRATULATIONS and THANKS VERY MUCH. Greetings from Mexico City.

Thanks for an interesting video🤩

Very informative.

Great presentación

Well done!

Great job!!!! Thank you!!!!

Well done!👍

Thanks for this insight. I just assumed the type XXI would have been a game changer if it had gone into service earlier in the war.

Great video

Super spændende! Virkelig godt arbejde!

I certainly found it infomative and good made. I had the idea that it was nearly a wonderweapon before this video.

Excellent video which answered several questions I had. Thanks. edit: liked and subbed.

Thanks

I did not know the tech 21 was actually was actually that says thank you for letting me watch your video. I can’t wait for the next one to come out

very informative super cool

Thank you for producing this particular video. As an Australian I found it very interesting to learn that Australia was involved in researching the performance of this amazing German submarine. I certainly look forward to viewing any videos that you may post in the future pertaining to World War II naval history.

Now there were over a hundred of these Type XXI assembled, and at least 5 countries operating them post war 4 using them in active service. US intelligence estimated that USSR had 15 in use by 1948 and a further 39 in parts. France operated one in the Meditterainian during the Suez Crisis. What were these countries experiences with the type, and why is so little referred to that in this video?

The best part after the video is that you calmly answered some outrageous statements. I was unaware of Schnee over reporting his missions. That every nation afterwards copied and used the Type XXI really says something.

Interesting

My dad was a US NAVY SUBMARINER for 30 years from WW2 onward and served on a sub that looked identical to the one shown near the end of the video!! I'm not sure but it might be the very same one shown as he had an EXCELLENT OIL PAINTING made by a gifted POST WAR JAPANESE ARTIST HANGING IN A NICE FRAME that was always displayed prominently on the wall of wherever we/he lived for ALL THE REST OF HIS LIFE!! He served on it in the MID 1950'S to the EARLY 1960'S; being HOMEPORTED at PEARL HARBOR NAVAL SUB BASE (where we, his family lived) in HAWAII but also PATROLLING OUT OF YOKOSUKA JAPAN and GUAM!! WHAT WAS THE NUMBER ON THE SIDE OF THE CONNING TOWER?? WAS IT THE SSN346?? I CAN ONLY REMEMBER HE SERVED ON SEVERAL BOATS; the CORPORAL, the TIRU and the BASHAW in that time frame (WW2 to LATE 1950'S)!! I think the CORPORAL and the TIRU were older US FLEET SUBS(TYPE 7 and 9)!! The SUBMARINE SERVICE is known as the SILENT SERVICE because it tries to OPERATE SILENTLY beneath the surface but also it's PERSONNEL ARE EXPECTED to KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT ABOUT their HIGHLY SECRETIVE OPERATIONS!! THAT INCLUDED THE FAMILIES BACK HOME, BTW!! I REMEMBER THAT MY DAD CAME HOME ONE DAY IN HAWAII IN A VERY TIRED/DISTRESSED STATE in a dirty set of DUNGAREES and I noticed he had a LITTLE PLASTIC BADGE ATTACHED TO HIS SHIRT CONTAINING A LITTLE SQUARE PIECE OF CAMERA FILM that had TURNED COMPLETELY BLACK!! I asked him what it was and he told me(although he rarely said anything about what he did in the service) that it was his RADIATION BADGE and that it showed that he had been EXPOSED TO NUCLEAR RADIATION!! I'm a little kid sitting in his lap and he tells me he's been EXPOSED!! I don't know how many RADS or ROENTGENS that might have been but that told me later on when I had a better sense of the world that he was involved in the DEVELOPMENT OF NUCLEAR PROPULSION like future POTUS JIMMY CARTER did for ADMIRAL JAIME RICKOVER!! My dad had VOLUNTEERED for SERVICE in WW2; he wasn't DRAFTED!! GUESS HE WAS A PATRIOT AND A VOLUNTEER ALL HIS LIFE!! We (his family) were likewise INVOLVED on the HOME FRONT!! My mom served as a CIVIL DEFENSE WARDEN for our neighborhood in NAVY Housing back then in HAWAII and wore an old WW1 STEEL HELMET painted in white with a CIVIL DEFENSE SYMBOL EMBLAZONED ON IT and had a similar WHITE CLOTH ARMBAND with the CD SYMBOL on it too! In school (as well as in any public area) we were all WELL DRILLED in the "DUCK AND COVER" PROTOCOL!! I REMEMBER WE WATCHED THE "GREEN GLOW" from the ATOMIC TESTS at night then!! We children didn't gather what danger we all were in. We just thought it LOOKED COOL!! LITTLE DID WE KNOW, RIGHT?? And the GOVERNMENT LIKED IT THAT WAY, OF COURSE!! KEEP THEM IN THE DARK AND FEED THEM BULLSHIT!! That's what's known as the old "MUSHROOM THEORY" of MANAGEMENT!! OR "WHAT THEY DON'T KNOW WON'T HURT THEM and EVEN IF IT DOES, WHO CARES?? RIGHT?? THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS!! SO BEND OVER AND KISS YOUR STUPID SWEET BUTT GOOD-BYE, JACKSON!! ALOOOOHA!!

I am stunned, I have read much on these subs and its clear what I have read is wrong.

You missed one of the most important innovations. Type 21 was build in segments, transported to the shipyard, there it was finished and put together. This increased the speed of production enormously and reducing the effectiveness of bombing the shipyards

didn't even know the channel - informative video! Man imagine the people + resources that worked on the so-called "miracle weapons" worked on this submarine program...

Great video. Though faster, type 7s couldn't shadow a convoy because of radar and air cover.

A What If? story of the XXI deploying in 1944 would be a very interesting read.

Extremely informative, a lot of information that I was unaware of, too bad you put out content so infrenquently.

Are there any available documents from when the various nations tested captured XXI boats? And while I'm asking - what are some good sources for information about 1950s and 60s submarine hunting. We have plenty about WWII, and about modern guided torpedoes/SSNs, but not really much from the era of GUPPY boats.

Was the 6 knots stated its maximum surface speed or its cruising speed?

German U boat captains to Admiralty toward the end of the war: "We go out on missions and the enemy is just waiting for us. They know what we're doing. They've broken our code!" Admiralty: "Enigma is unbreakable." Alan Turing: "Oh yeah? Hold my beer." The U boat fleet suffered extremely heavy casualties, losing 793 U-boats and about 28,000 submariners, a 75% casualty rate, the highest of all German forces during the war.

Type XXI was always a prototype (contrary to what they say). Germany had big supply problems, requiring compromises and just lies - i.e. they were reporting 1000 HP engine while it was 500 HP because of "substituted" components, etc. Just a collapsing state. It does not change the fact that XXI design was miles ahead of other subs.

The type 21 was years ahead anything the allied had and was years ahead of its time.

Would love to hear your take on the Japanese I-400 class subs.

If you mean how successful was it in war- it was more of a footnote. If you mean that it usured in new theologies its impact was beyond belief. In fact US Nuclear submarines are basically type 21 with a nuclear reactor.

One of the things people miss is the suppression of knowledge after WW2. Of course the US and Especially the British and French would downplay the capabilities of their former enemies. While at the same time copying them. Ever heard of NEEDLE GUNS? More commonly known as RIFLES.

Very interesting about this very advanced submarines. The cause of their little rôle in WW2 is well explain. Would be interesting to speak on thé expérimental hydrogen XX1 and thé return of experiment, thé reason it was not industrialised. This ingeneers were very créative and strong. Pity it was for a Bad cause.

Hey, if anyone has a link to the full video, i think I'd like to see the whole thing...😂🎉

I read that the type 21 u-boat was originally designed to use hydrogen peroxide to fuel it and this proved to dangerous for the crew and standard diesel/electric purpupulsion was substituted instead. ?

i mean, didnt the xxi given to eng have its turbos removed by its crew?

Interesting but I have one question. How could an extremely hydronamic hull, combined with creep motors, be noisier than a type 7C ? On what evidence is this claim based?

Perhaps, rather than seeing them as a revolution in themselves we should look at the Type 21 as a prototype for the Guppies’ the British rebuilt T-class and the later Oberons plus the Soviet Whiskeys. A collection of innovative ideas ideas that just couldn’t be or weren’t taken to completion.

The technology created during war is facinating subject and if we could resolve conflict via war games the world would be a better place but humans will resolve to win at any cost especially if their survival is threatened so I guess how we treat our enemies after wars is what really matters because we humans will never stop trying to destroy each other.

The British R class of ww1 would have been a good starting point for advanced submarines in ww2.

I will go with Erich Topp's assessment but considering the much smoother hydrodynamics of the hull, I'd question the submerged speed was less than a type 7 or 9. Swept area surfaced may have caused less surface speed plus the elimination of large deck guns for AA batteries kept the type limited to submerged attack. The fact remains that the type 21 was much cleaner submerged. What about the Wilhelm Bauer and the two type 23 subs raised and used by the post war German Navy? What did they show?

I wonder what class sub that is at 11:38

The type 21 could have really been Germanys truely war winning Wonder Weapon. Even the post WWII first Nuclear Sub, was basically a Type 21 with a reactor in it. A truly technicall breakthrough, even more so than the V-2 Rocket !!!

Thanks a lot my Lord to show this fantastics germans idems

1:13 is that the TARDIS next to the UK submarine?

The japanese I 201 is quite similar. Both in speed and in failing to have any effect on the war

Type XXI and type XXIII submarine projects were started in May 1943 because German Navy was experiencing #50% loss rate with their current type VIIC submarine because of allies's progresses in detection technologies and anti-submarine tactics. Germans were in fact compelled to build something better than their obsolete type VIIC and they turned to existing 1940 projects of Walter hydrogen peroxide propulsion submarine that had been rejected because tests had proved this propulsion system was too dangerous. Those projects included hull designs derived from type VIIC hull, with double height and most of the equipment for surface navigation removed, because Walter turbines didn't need air, so those subs didn't need to surface. It looks like those hull designs were on the quick and dirty side because Walter hydrogen peroxide submarine projects didn't look very realistic in 1940 and didn't enjoy much resources. In May 1943, German Navy had little time to try to find remedies to the obsolescence of their current subs, so they turned to those old formerly rejected projects, replacing the peroxide turbines with the largest diesel-plus-electric propulsion system they could fit. It looks like a quick-and-dirty adaptation of an old project with a propulsion system much less powerful than the initially proposed hydrogen peroxide turbines. The type XXI subs project was started in May 1943 and, although much resources were devoted to it, only 2 subs had been accepted for service and deployed before May 8th, 1945, so their military fitness has never been proved and has been the object of many controversies. It doesn't really look like a huge success, and I really wonder why those submarine enjoy such a high reputation today. Perhaps some bias in favour of many things that relate to Nazi Germany ?

Few people realize that submarine design and improvement on said designs is comparable to space craft design and improvement! IT AINT EASY!

Even if the type 21 never really was everything they hoped it would be, it was enough to scare the allies. Sometimes a psychological scare turns out to be far more effective than a real world one. That said. If the type 21 had come along a little bit earlier in the war and in greater numbers It may very well have made a significant difference in the outcome of the Atlantic war. Because obviously they would have made corrections as production went along. In a way the type 21 did end up winning as even though it wasn't the performer they thought it was going to be in the field it influenced submarine design from every country. What comes to mind for me is the perceived invincibility of the Japanese zero when it was first encountered it literally scared the hell out of any who had to fly against it. In fact if they hadn't have captured one intact who knows how long the zero would have been feared and how it might have influenced aircraft design.

As for max depth - I doubt the 10 extra meters compared to VII/C ir IX matter. And the subs that left the dock could not even use the rated depth due to problems with a hatch buckling.

It's really bitchin' in Silent Hunter, though.

The main reason for the type XXI shortfalls versus specs lies with the diesel propulsion. And that is caused by the material shortages ofGermany at the time. Germany had no trouble designing efficient and powerful diesels and that lead has even extended into the presence. Indeed, as you stated, after WWII the specs were met and exceeded. Fact is also that the last action of uboat was a type XXIV sinking three ships within British water, solely on sonar bearing and submerged. In the left the scene undetected. TypXXI boats were undetectable (in 1945) at slow speed as later US trials would show.

Better on paper then in reality test after showed there were many more problems the the expected

Only one went on war patrol And never fired in anger as the surrender came into effect Just as it sighted a convoy!

Time to use my life to build one

Fortunately Germany in WW2 was to invested into other wonder weapons, invest resources in really effective weapons like the Type XXI

We are analysing a boat that was essentially on a shake down cruise captained by a man with a track record of being economical with the truth. I would say that is a pretty poor war time sample size to draw any conclusions. Good video though.

Australia could do well to look at this class, instead of the pipe dream of going nuclear.

Asdic is British for sonar

Type klasse für diesel elektrik boote

IJN Sentaka was at least as. Modern as XXI submarine.

Even a comment

With the snorkelling capabilities I had assumed that it would spend little time crawling on the surface. Considering the remarkable degree of shameless copying of the craft it must have had significant capabilities.

You can have the best uboat in the world and still loose... when your enemy can read your whole communcation. Blechley Park was what annihilated the german uboats.

Even if the Germans built the best Submarine in the World, the Enigma code had been cracked. With the Allies listening to all their communication & tracking their broadcasts with HFDF it left them vulnerable to attack.

what about the post war performance by the West Germans? More useful would have been more Type XXIII, sooner! The battle of the Atlantic was won. Allied intel was good and few convoys were actually "wolf-packed" after mid '43....Intel had the convoys avoid the patrol lines. But where did the Allied ships have to go to? Ports in the UK and later Invasion beaches, later ports in France. Small boats like the Type XXIII, in quantity, could have played hell in the Irish Sea and English Channel

The Allies were fortunate the XXI was not deployed a few months earlier. Many sailors would have been killed. The XXI was practical wonder weapon.

Neither the main engines nor batteries were those of the design, but poor solutions due to the very bad situation of Germany at those times. Quite a pitty that only a botch job of this wonderful piece of engineering was tested.

What about the I-200 series of sub that Japan had. And NO the I-200 was the influence for the guppy program.