Watcher: Why Prioritizing Profit At All Costs Betrays Fans 

at its core no one asked for "higher quality" content from them. Better cameras, more staff, and bigger payday for the boys doesn't cover up that they've been putting out the same content they did on BuzzFeed in higher resolution.

I hate when RU-vidrs or influencers say “I’m doing this for you” as if they are doing us a favor when we pay for subscriptions, ads, etc…

Look... Shane bought himself a Tesla car. His wedding venue alone was 50.000$ and his bride had 3 wedding gowns. She brags on her instagram that she buys 100$ tote bags. They have more than enough money for any projects they want... but everything came too easy for them and now they're spoiled. They spend money like water so now they're broke and think their loyal and adoring fans won't mind footing their bill. His wife even said on her tumblr that they need more money so they can have livable wages. Let them fall and find themselves a day job for once.

My partner is a videographer and one thing he noticed during the original announcement video is that Watcher's camera man was wearing the MOST EXPENSIVE steadicam model currently available on the market. It cost upwards of $20,000 dollars. He said 'That truly isn't necessary, those are for feature films and would be an utter waste of money even for a TV show'. Meaning they are spending more than what a network TV show would be paying for that model'. I am part of a much smaller production company so although I don't know the extent of the financial operation, I do know how to cut costs on material (But not salary) while still maintaining high quality content. They chose not to do that.

It was this situation that made me realize how parasocial I was with Watcher. Maybe it was best we broke up...

Puppet History could have been funded with cute merch and behind the scenes exclusives on Patreon. International trips for Ghost Files could have been funded in HOURS through a gofundme, and then they could use those trips to also shoot some of Steven's content. Add extra Patreon content along the way, a few behind the scenes/on location pictures and short videos, come back and post everything to massive profit. None of this was rocket science, they just didn't want to do things that way. Nor did they have any exclusive content READY for the streamer--they essentially asked us to pre-order streaming content. That's a hard pass from be guys.

This is what happens when fans get a glipse behind the curtain and realize their favorite creators are no longer relatable. 25+ employees for YT?? If you want to make TV, go make TV but don't ask fans to fuel your ego or else they get no more content for free. What an absolute slap in the face for fans, subscribers, patreons, merch buyers, and tour fans.

what i also don't understand is how they expected to get new viewers to watch their content. while youtube's algorithm definitely has flaws, they're a big channel that gets decent views so they wouldn't have a problem drawing in new viewers. by removing all videos from youtube, they would've essentially removed any chance of getting a new audience which would just cause their website to die slowly since people would slowly cancel their subscriptions. it just feels like they didn't plan this through at all and needed a quick way to make money because the fact they didn't think of this at all after so many years of producing online content is baffling

Graphics are irrelevant to me. Does anyone else hardly watch the actual video and use RU-vid mainly as audio?

I hate it when youtubers refer to their viewers as fans instead of subscribers. They're clearly not fanatics that go for anything

Okay, here's the thing. The content isn't free. If it is being paid for by advertisting, and the advertising requires a viewer, then it is the viewer's time spent watching the ad that pays for the content. So when a creator says "you can watch the content for free" you are saying that the viewer's time has no value. Time is any person's most precious commodity. A very limited resource. The absolute gall that content creators have to insinuate that their time has value but ours does not? And actually, because I do value my time, I pay for youtube premium so that I don't have to watch ads. The time I get back from not watching ads can be spent doing things that are productive and enrich my life. I pay for the content I watch, and so does everybody else. You pay with money or you pay with your time. Which has more value to you?

I truly truly think that they saw what Dropout is doing (selling out msg, getting interviewed by the Emmy's, having a thriving independent streaming platform) and wanted some of that WITHOUT realizing why Dropout managed to be successful in the first place

That “free membership” for Patreon subscribers was only for a few months. After it ran out they would have to repurchase a membership. That backlash will hit once subs realize what the deal actually is.

I'm surprised you didn't mention that they hired two new staff members right before the announcement and then guilt tripped people that starting the streaming service was the only way to keep watcher from going under

They tried to make it seem like they’re struggling for funds while also posting photos of a 50K wedding venue and a brand new Tesla. Clearly the cash is rolling in, they’re just mismanaging it and vastly overspending.

The thing that REALLY irked fans (me) (I spent like 3 hours in the comment section of their original announcement) was Steven saying ‘anyone can afford it!’ Comments were FILLED with really sad stories - we’re in a global recession ffs!! Also people don’t actually like the better quality. We want just Ryan and Shane chilling. And everyone hates Steven lmao

They failed miserably to hide the fact that it was not about their audience at all, it was all about them. /They/ wanted TV quality. /They/ wanted that quality with absolutely no cuts to their monthly income. If you're independent, want to do grander things and still get the same paycheck, it will NOT work out. They knew it but decided to protect their ambitions and their paychecks anyway under the guise of care for their audience. I was not even a fan and yet I feel insulted on behalf of all the people who got them where they are.

When you want to create a second income stream - make it and make it pay before abandoning the first one assuming everyone will follow you. This is an amateur business move.

I want to point out that this video also misses the point: you say that we don't want to pay for free content, but we are the product. They profit off of our views claiming it's free content sure but that's the only reason they're getting paid from advertisers if our views weren't there, they wouldn't have been able to have a channel. So not only do we become the product but then they want to extort us again by asking us to pay a fee which is higher than many multi-channel syndicated platforms like peacock Plus and Discovery. The worst part was they went to step further and said they would be removing everything off of there RU-vid starting in May but they retracted that statement shortly after. They had already given the statement to a magazine and it was specific that they were removing their old content from RU-vid. This is a company that has been sponsored by Disney They literally did an entire episode of Ghost files on Disney's dine to promote the haunted Mansion. But they've mismanaged their business so much that they want more from us who have been the product the entire time??? No bro charge businesses and we will offer to be the product........ Two more things One when they launch the website it took 2 hours for them to install a SSL certificate so the website was not even secure when they launched. Bad planning. B. The website does not have subtitles on the videos or did not when we first checked and therefore people with audio processing problems could not even participate so we were purposefully left behind. Ridiculous! I'm still mad! Edited to add love your content keep it up so glad you're here

as a fan, the last few months I've actually forced myself to watch their stuff. it's far more scripted and feels off. I'm probably not gonna watch until they post certain series that aren't as bad

Honestly I can't say the damage isn't done, it is. Even though they backpedaled it still breaks my heart that they did try to completely cut a large portion of their viewers, telling us, as you said, "if you don't pay you won't see any new videos". I've watched and rewatched all of their videos, I've been to their live show, I've bought their merch, and listened to all their podcasts.. and it wasn't enough, and I'm the "bad fan" for not also subbing to their patreon and now this streaming service. I don't know when I will be willing to go back.. Especially after hearing how Shane's wife was ragging on people for not wanting to cough up $6/mo since her ability to buy $100 tote bags was threatened... Girl I cringe when I have to buy a new Aldi bag for my groceries.

If I could freaking give advice to any company, TRUST IS APART OF YOUR NET WORTH. Stop thinking solely in $$$profit$$$ Like okay you won't get skyrocketing, exponential profits all the time, but being trustworthy and having a shred of compassion for your consumer (even if you have to sacrifice potential $$$) will likely get you longevity and sustainability.

I think the issue is they are assuming that their audience wants to view this ellusive "higher quality" content without even giving them a sample of this new type of content. If they had budgeted to make a "pilot" episode of their creative ideas, then they would basically move to crowdsourcing their new projects. Instead, they paywalled their current quality videos and people realized that they were not willing to pay that amount in this economy. I think they just come across as rich/out of touch with their fanbase who is probaby struggling to make ends meet. Its like having your rich friend as you to buy them a coffee when you literally walked to work because you can't afford to fix your car. Its not that asking for a favor is bad, its the timing/context.

They tried to do what would have killed Rooster Teeth sooner: removing the RU-vid anvenue of your audience will kill any potential future for sharing your content and brand with others in the future. Greed will always be a short-sighted victory, with a slow and painful downfall.

I think their apology was good, but I don't think I'll be watching their content again, at least not for a while. I was someone who watched because of Shane and Ryan's chemistry and their personalities, and while I did realize they probably weren't 100% the people they presented in their videos, I feel like this whole thing showed me a little too much behind the curtain. Just understanding how inauthentic they really were put me off. But yeah, kudos to them to listening to their PR team for that apology.

With Dropout, they didn't stop their Videos to be upload in their YT channel. They were also dumped from their main company essentially bankrupting then College Humour. Also it still took YEARs for Dropout to really click.

This really feels like an academic video of "Creator's Dos and Don'ts" that doesn't really tackle the Audience reaction. They built their platform on Audience Integration. They had viewer Q&As and Viewer Submitted Content as a cornerstone to Ghost Files in the beginning. Tbh I was becoming more and more disinterested in their content so I didn't really care anymore when they posted videos. But to see an announcement video which I thought was them saying they were dissolving the company with "Goodbye" in the title, where they set it up with a sappy tone and then said: Yeah, so we want money. If you don't have it, we don't want you. They got a very reasonable response from their audience. Their apology was the most damage control they could do without saying, "that was a dick move on our part and we're so sorry". It was a very corporate apology, and it certainly didn't feel sincere. I feel like it's safe to say that Steven's attitude was what upset a lot of people the most...and that's not even getting into his finance-bro instagram featuring his brand-new tesla that people brought up as being extra aggravating. Watcher will not recover. They lost their core fan base and spat on the remnants. Now they only have the fans who have money left, good for them. They got what they wanted in the end. They culled their audience just how they wanted to.

their apology was good yes but idk if i can accept it without at least being skeptical. their reasoning for doing this was too fragile to jutify what felt like a huge stab in the back. they forgot the reason why they can do youtube, their following, that to do the projects they want, they need the support of their fans, and higher productions is simply not what we wanted

I remember them "begging" us to subscribe to watcher when leaving buzzfeed. Wish them the best, i’m out. Guarantee they leave at the first chance they get

As one of their fans, since before Shane even joined, the biggest slap on the face was just how they could ever misunderstand their fans so deeply. I'll still watch them but the trust was broken. The whole thing was condescending and I don't like being threatened or being treated like I'm an idiot. The sad part about this is that if they just asked for more money, We probably would have given it to them. They never even really advertised their Patreon after the initial launch. So they jumped to such a drastic conclusion without doing any market research or ASKING the fans to help.

As a super fan i really felt betrayed. I've been watching since their first days on Buzzfeed. That goodbye video ruined my weekend. But now, I'm just doing as you say, "if you don't like it, don't buy it", and i wont be buying it, or watching old videos.

I loved Buzzfeed Unsolved. I made it 2 weeks into the switch to watcher, and I saw a noticeable difference...and it hasn't changed.

No, they're not who I thought they were and I don't trust them. Let them drive Teslas, spend money like it was Chucky Cheese tokens and eat gold, I'm not helping to pay for it, not even with a subscribe and like.

It is probably going to take some time before I'm able to view their content without having the feelings of betrayal and, quite frankly, disgust come back to the surface. Those aren't the sort of emotions I'm looking to experience while winding down from yet another long hard day of drudgery.

And just like the Fine Bros I will never be able to watch another one of their videos ever again.

i loved UNSOLVED, but when they disappeared i had no idea they had started something of their own. not until this scandal of them leaving RU-vid and free content behind. i'm disappointed in the way they've disrespected their fans.

i can live without them. throughout this drama, i found myself just drawn to their buzzfeed content.

13:56 Personally when these donation adds are framed as fully dramatic rather than "hey this is to support making the videos better", it always ends with the former being used as a manipulation tactic. I see it with adds, I see it with politicians, and when RU-vidrs do it, I'm already "oh, thanks for the warning you can never be trusted again"

im sorry but i just dont understand why they have so many employees. you dont need that many people to make youtube videos. you just dont. and people do not care about production value. im literally watching most videos, without even looking at the video more thn 5 glances. it's in the background. it's basically a podcast. you only need good audio. video and production quality should not be the number one priority.

I personally think their apology was good. I definitely feel this whole thing is money mismanagement.

And you didn't even touch on the negative reaction Steven Lim got instead of Ryan and Shane

The true kicker is that volunteer donation supporters on Patreon (13,000?! I didn’t know that many) were not given the new pay platform, they were given a _discount code_ I mean how did anyone think that would be ok?

I contend that one of the bigger parts of this issue was a disconnect between what the creators want and what their audience is actually looking for. I really haven't seen any Watcher fan say they wanted film quality cameras or high budget editing, but that is 100% what Ryan, Shane, and Steven wanted to do. Which makes the main reason they want to switch to a streamer not a big selling point, and in fact has been a turn off for many. Alongside the other valid criticisms.

Shortly before their infamous goodbye video, they released a scheduled video a little late. Their explaination for that was "monitization issues" or something to that effect. I'm personally calling bs on that one.

They said they had a big announcement. Like it was something the fans would love… very wrong

They should've put the money used making the website into hiring a financial advisor.

They didn’t really push their patreon, and people think they could’ve invested more time in growing that. Most people doing videos on this situation say they have 13k patrons. This is true, they actually gained about a thousand during the early days of the scandal. That’s because you can join for free, and people were doing that to read what they were saying to the patrons. Even though they have 13k members, they only had 6k paid patrons. And that has now dipped to 4600 paid members. That is a huge drop in revenue right when they’re trying to increase that. Now maybe some are moving to the streaming service, but many are pissed because they kinda screwed over the loyal patrons who’d been support them for a long time.

I was one of their patrons for 2 years (well almost) and no I will not forgive them! They will not get a dime out of me ever again. Even now they won't upload anything because we have to wait for this one month they can really jam a stick in it for all I care.

I've never heard of these guys and never watched them, so I'm indifferent to all of this. My thing is, if they wanted to move their channel to a different platform that has a better monetization system, supports higher quality videos, and has a less restrictive censorship policy without needing to rely on Patreaon, then they should've just moved to Nebula. That's what most RU-vidrs with bigger budgets and higher production value have been doing for years. They post heavily censored videos on their RU-vid channels so they don't get demonetized and post the uncensored and longer versions on their Nebula channels, along with bonus videos. That way, they both give their fans who refuse to leave RU-vid more content and incentivize them to pay for Nebula. Nebula also has a better safety net of pre-established watchers with over 650,000 users. That's still microscopic compared to RU-vid's over 4 billion users, but that's the trade off you risk if you want to move to a platform that does a better job at supporting content creators. In my opinion, you have to have the biggest ego on the planet if you think your fans are gonna follow you to a new platform that's locked behind a paywall. Never assume that you're someone's only RU-vidr, especially when there are more RU-vidrs out than ever that can make the exact same type of content. If you abandon your channel, the majority of your fans are gonna move on to other content creators. Most people don't want to have to keep up with multiple different platforms at the same time. It's why the streaming wars have been causing pirating to be popularized again. It sounds to me like they just want their own tv show. RU-vid ain't TV. The core appeal of RU-vid is that it's not TV. It's supposed to be less polished and more amateur. So the fact that they think their fans care about TV level quality content enough to move from a free to use platform to a one they have to pay for shows how tone deaf and out of touch they are to their own fan base. So this whole thing just reeks of greed and terrible business planning.

I just don't understand why they announced this so abruptly, I watched almost all their videos and there wasn't even a hint of this (that i could see) and then BAM Goodbye youtube! Welcome paywall! How in the world did they think this was going to be received???? I really don't understand. It's like a girl going on a few dates with a guy and then saying "hey this has been fun, but if you'd like to continue seeing me I'm only going to be reachable through OF, thanks for being a loyal fan! Hope to see you there!"

Having seen videos from their viewers I believe the lost a lot of hard core fans that were supporting them. Also streaming is expensive, how are they planning to pay for that and high budget production, it is beyond me...

Honestly forget them forever

Omg it's Psychirl from the channel Donna, I'll see myself out...

Because all we need nowadays it's ANOTHER subscription

I really appreciate you braking this down the way you did. I didn’t really understand at first because from the outside it seemed like what people do with Patreon, but I didn’t realize a lot of the nuance of it like that people already supporting them through Patreon would no longer have access. Love your content 💕

Not a Watcher fan by any means (only occasionally watching some of their videos every now and then), and I wish them the best moving forward, but while we don't know their financial situation for sure it does seem like they don't manage their finances well enough 😐. Nevermind new revenue stream, they should hire someone who specializes in managing their finances, so that they have better cash flow going forward...

Honestly I feel for the community. Video is great! Keep up the good work!

I wonder if they could implement a PPV type deal on the streamer. I’d totally pay a few bucks to watch an episode Mystery Files a month early here and there, but I just cannot do another subscription service. I still consider myself a casual fan of Watcher, and I’m curious to see how this continues to play out.

pls is the way this is edited referencing watcher😭😭especially the intro with the random other cuts and screens behind it… i love it lol

It's funny because I know Steven from Worth It on Buzzfeed, and I've never watched a single video from Watcher...

Voidzilla/Coffee/Stephen's videos are my favorite takes on this kerfuffle.

lol your videos are always well thoughout i havent seen this one yet but just wanted to know your style of investigating is awesome and very fresh. keep up the awesome work!!

I hate it when they say ‘we are doing it for you’……….F no. It’s for them and ONLY them

To be honest with you I am an older viewer. I always loved Shane and Ryan period. When I watch there old videos they give me well honestly feeling. Usually sad because I remember how fast time flys but yet feelings. I can’t remember when any other content has done this for me. It has always been free so if I have to dish out a couple bucks a month less than a coffee at Starbucks so be it. I just hope in years to come when I look back I still get those same feelings. Good luck guys I will support. William

I can’t believe you’ve done this. A take down video of Man Carrying Prime Max Plus +? Unthinkable business practice.

I never thought of them as tv quality lmao

Amanda made it in, my two favourite commentary channels in one video 🎉❤

I guess the problems started then they decided they need the whole company with a lot of outside investors to make a youtube channel then they had a build-in fanbase to begin with.

Everyone wants to be rich instead of being a good person and good part of society

Would you be open to looking into the rumors about the free access code for current Patreon members being for only three months?

Before the drama I’d never heard of them. Having seen a lot of reaction/analysis vids I now want to check them out. The consensus seems to be the content they produce is worth watching. It’ll be interesting to see how they’re doing a year from now.

No one is doubting their vision such as creating an inclusive and diverse space, they are just not good business people and are clearly mis managing their finances. I mean they already have a pay wall. Yeah, not a good look.

They even sell their show to giant streaming services and have been for years. They are SO fkn rich, and they want EVEN MORE!

What I don't understand is why content creators aren't asking their audience what they want.... it seems pretty obvious as an outsider looking in.

THE THUMBNAIL IS SO GOOD LMFAO

I was waiting for your take on this!

I still think they are going to loose views once the videos are up after a month of their released in their platform. Sailing the seas happens to every single platform

They tried to distance themselves from youtube because of the content they made, Serial Killers, Ghosts, Aliens and Unsolved Mistery isn't easy if can't even use normal "words". I didn't like what they did and I was baffled by it for me they are way too small for a move like this, on the GunTube side this isn't new many did it in a similar way (more uncensored content, no sponsors and a couple of days early) but Watchers did too much. Remember this guys came from BuzzFeed all of them they where the last followed show there

the background music is too high, her audio is way too low

I've been following buzzfeed since its trending (2015), and have been watching unsolved since before Shane (since 2016) and saw their transition to Watcher in real time. Like the majority of fellow fans, I was gobsmacked by the announcement. It really did feel like they abandoned their fans, and it's heartbreaking too, knowing that the image they're selling on the Internet is more and more unlike their real personalities (Shane saying 'eat the rich' whilst having a near-celebrity status wedding and sara's tumblr posts). Honestly, I would much prefer turning on Unsolved marathons or watching the earlier episodes of Puppet History and Covid episodes of Are You Scared again. The guys forgot we watch the shows for their dynamics as friends, when yellow and blue texts on black screen would turn into memes on the Internet. We don't need television quality content, nor do we need a $6 a month subscription for a platform we'll watch one or two shows on. It was a little bittersweet looking back on Unsolved's iconic legacy, but that video (and the apology, however well done it is) does not seem sincere to me. I unsubscribed a few days ago with a heavy heart, if I miss it I'll rewatch the old shows and my favorite episodes. I was going to use my newly earned money to buy merch too, but not anymore I guess. So long Watcher, it could've lasted.

Steven was/is definitely the man behind this bold and absolutely horrible idea. He’s the behind the scenes man that’s completely $$$ driven. The other two, the hosts, I don’t think were 100% on board but they went along with it. And I think Ryan and Shane truly regretted it. Steven is just bummed his idea to make more $$$ didn’t work.

the worst thing they've done is made "streamer" a thing. no one ever called streaming services "streamers" prior to all this, and now all these creators reporting on this situation are referring to streaming platforms as "streamers"!

watching from 🇵🇭 love these guys from buzzfeed. sad they're doing this to their supporters.

Until this happened i had no clue their name was Watcher.

I’m glad they changed it. I’m only an avid watcher of puppet history but I would’ve been sad if I couldn’t watch it anymore

They could just take their phones and do a local ghost haunting. Steven Lim is a bozo and nobody pays to see him. Not being a hater but if he wants, he should just create shows low key drinks/diner shows with his own budget. Watcher was a hit because of two main men and not Lim.

NGL I'm surprise with how big this drama has spread but tbh I feel like they would not die from this, a release of Ghost File will make fans keep coming back... So long as it's a banger. XD

I’m suprised at how I missed all of this. I just figured they slowed down on releasing content. Didn’t realize they’re not like anymore by their own fans. Sad

their main blunder was the decision to be completely put their content behind the paywall. they shouldnt touch their youtube content in the first place.

I caught your video a minute after uploading? Noice!

I still remember how i loved watching Buzzfeed Unsolved. A lot of things have change for them, I'm happy for them? Not really. But seriously though, more than 5 people working with Ryan and Shane just to make sure this puppet show is on this Watcher platform? This is wild decision they ever made. It's it worth it? You have to reevalute your decision.

Currently doing my business psychology revision while listening to you bc this is way more interesting hahaahaha

I guess the update did fix everything, but I do feel oddly betrayed still. Secret Base released their patreon in an appropriate way, and I subscribed before the video ended. They are both parasocial dynamics, but at least jon bois is aware of who watches him.

Well, this answers my curiosity as to what the Unsolved boys are up to now. I was unaware of this Watcher saga and susequent drama... why you gotta ruin something I loved, Donna? :p

Hard to say how long they were working on their website, but the timing felt like the recent Newsom / CA wage hike hit them right after they scaled up, and they weren't financially prepared, so they scrambled for the quickest money grab to prevent downscaling.

Never heard of them

How come it worked for dropout? I don't really understand the difference.

they did this because of fellow buzzfeed creators "dimension 20" The difference is the other

NEVER FORGET THEY WERE GONNA REMOVE THEIR OLD VIDEOS AS WELL!!!

what content they make?