I had one of those in a model steam ship... very convenient, however I still prefer old fashion burning smoke fluid. That's because the water vapor 'smoke' dissipates too fast, and it sinks to the ground too fast rather than drifting upwards. I think those reasons regarding the behavior of the vapor smoke are why traditional smoke units are still so popular.
Michael, many thanks for this video and all the information. I am already arranging to purchase the electronics and will have a go myself. Mine will be installed in O gauge diesel models. Thanks again, Anthony.
I have an old, legacy 671 Lionel Turbine that uses the old light bulb / smoke pellet configuration. If I take out that contraption (smoke pellets are no longer made), there should be ample room to install one of these units. Thanks for the idea!
This is really awesome and you did a great job explaining! I can't stand oil-based smoke in O gauge 3 rail as it is very erratic and messy. Since I weather my trains the oil trashes my flat finish and cannot be cleaned easily. This looks very promising!
This is very promising! I have myself an electric 1/8th scale steam engine which I have fitted with a fogger, but have always been unhappy with the performance and the necessity of special fluid. Certainly something like this could be scaled up. I look forward to your developments!
I have also been working on this for use in scenery for about two years in my spare time. Waiting to see if long-term storage leaves mold or mildew. Using this method outdoors presents an additional wintertime issue. I am considering using Windshield washer antifreeze in the water.
oooh Man this is exactly the solution I was thinking when I was wondering of a way of generating smoke less smoke for indoor use. Thank you for this. Will still need some work to get this into HO or O scale locos
For anyone interested in Track power operation, Massoth sells tiny 6 Voltage regulators with built-in bridge rectifiers. Just hook up four wires (Two to the wheel pickups, and the other two to the Atomizer unit polarity correct) and you're all set. Now to figure out how to simulate the puffing effect while in motion.
I'm working on a puffing effect! The idea I'm currently messing around with involves opening and closing an air intake valve, so while the disc emits steam constantly, it will build up between chuffs and then release all at once. Of course, I could just switch it on and off quickly, but I tried that and wasn't happy with the amount of steam produced.
@@michaelramsey81 Here's a question for you, I've read from someone's attempts at installing one of these units is that the circuit board included has an on/off switch that always needs to be pressed on every time the unit is powered. Does yours's experience this issue, and if so, how did you bypass the problem?
@@exveefan Mine has that as well. I got around it by soldering a piece of wire across the contacts of the button, so that it thinks the button is always being pressed, and it turns on automatically anytime it has power.
Cool. Next stop, Ebay. Looking at the comments I'm wondering if a bellows of some sort working off of an axle eccentric would chuff? As for increasing smoke volume, perhaps a tiny bit of dish soap? It decreases surface tension of water.
Very informative video I appreciate the help and tips. I will look this item up and give it a go. I’m a big builder in Rc Hydraulics and Rc conversions. Also a passion for trains of all scales but family and I are all involved in our adventure of building our outdoor g scale layout
I haven't been able to successfully fit it into an HO locomotive yet, but I'm working on it! A Niagara would be a good candidate because it has a large boiler with lots of room inside.
I've also been experimenting with using a vaporiser in g scale locos. The biggest issue I found is consistent water saturation for the atomiser plate and water supply when compared to oil based smoke units. They are much less energy intense though.
Although this most definitely will not fit in any of my Ho locomotives I think I might use it for something else. I’ve always wanted to have some sort of cylinder cocks effect for my station and I feel like this my just be how I’m gonna do it. Pretty simple. Drill a whole where you want the steam, Have a water tank close by, have a hose hooked up the the condenser and there you have it.
That's a great idea! You'll probably want some kind of drip tray underneath that spot, since the steam does leave a lot of condensation if it's close to a surface, but I think the visual effect would be fantastic. You could even potentially eliminate the wick and have the system be gravity-fed.
This is what companies should be using for smoke. The smoke fluid causes a lot of issues for people. It would be so much better to just drop some water in the smoke unit.
i used a humidifier in my room before, and everything around it started getting covered in lime scale over time, perhaps distilled water would be helpful to prevent crud growing on your models?
I got the smoke stack I haven't put it in my G scale New Bright Train Set yet but it will work I'll make a video so everyone can see it. Thanks for this video I been wondering if there was a way I can make my train smoke again.
I've been trying to find a good smoke generator for my G scale locomotives that doesn't use that smoke oil and is cleaner and less expensive than the old ones. Thank you for the help.
I would see if I could use multiple nozzles to make a thicker output, since it seems kinda small to me; from what I understand of real exhausts, the steam is ejected and follows the walls of the funnel if it's biased towards going anywhere at all.
I've experimented with that, and not had much success so far. More nozzles just seemed to make more of a mess of water everywhere without increasing the steam output much - I think the water droplets from the differently angled nozzles were colliding with each other. I do plan to revisit the idea eventually though.
I see it has been a year since this posting, any additional information such as 3D print plans for the water tank? I love this idea and really want to try it!
Wow, has it been a year already? I've got so many projects going on that I've kinda neglected this one. I'll try to work on it, but probably not right away, as I've got other major life stuff going on right now.
@@michaelramsey81 man that's perfect I have one too I'm trying to get to run off Arduino and thought about adding this system to it. I definitely can't wait to see what you got in store
The only real way to fix those wires is to replace the wiring harness, including the plug. If it's a Bachmann loco, you can order a new one from their online parts store.
I tried a few types of foam I had lying around, but the best performing wicks I tested werethe ones that came with the discs. I'm not sure exactly what they're made of.
I see a lot of condensation on the loco and cars. Is this from the misting unit or was it just a wet day? This solution looks great but I don’t want to create slippery floors since my trains run indoors.
Did you also experiment with a simple plain sponge? I wil this try for myself, i also want to try to get smoke out of the cilindercocks, and with that it gives me an idea, why not install a plastic piston in the cilinder and bring some pipes to it, so you get a little vacuüm but also a blast out of the chimney, al you need is a piston connected to the wheel!
Scrap that idea above, yes it's plug in in your decorder as mentioned in youre video if you have a digital locomotive, however if you have a analog locomotive you can use the generator above with a moving piston connected via a gear.
I did try a piece of sponge foam, but it didn't seem to work as well as the included wicks. I think the design of the wicks causes the water to flow in one specific direction, while the sponge allows it to flow in any direction, so it doesn't draw it up toward the disk as well.
If your tap water leaves noticeable mineral deposits, definitely use distilled water. Better safe than sorry - you don't want to have to replace the disks all the time. The holes are extremely tiny and could easily clog up. I usually run these on tap water at home, but in the footage shot on Terry's layout, we were using distilled water because it's what he had on hand for his live steam locomotives. So far, I've been lucky enough not to have any issues either way.
I've been trying to make this work in HO scale for a long time. So far, I haven't found a practical way to fit everything in, but I know it's possible because TRS Trains has done it. When I figure it out, I'll definitely make a video on it!
I just soldered a piece of wire across the terminals of the button, so as soon as it gets power, it thinks the button is being pressed. I haven't experimented with it in a while, but I do have an idea for a puffing mechanism that I'd like to try eventually.
I was considering trying these out in my old Lionel. Would you be able suggest a regulator that would work with the ac track voltage that would run the disc?
I think the best option would be a bridge rectifier to convert the voltage to DC, and then just a standard 7805 5V regulator to step it down to the correct level for the disc. You will probably want some capacitors on the input of the regulator to prevent voltage spikes.
That's another advantage that I had forgotten about. The water-based system doesn't get hot, so unless your loco is made of paper, this won't have any risk of melting it.
@@BMMEC6000 There's no equipment near the water tank that would generate heat. Even if it did, the water would help dissipate the heat and reduce the chances of anything melting.
@@BMMEC6000 No worries! G scale locomotives, in my experience, usually have the motor mounted very low in the chassis. Even if the motor does get hot, I'd be more worried about it melting the gears than the boiler (and that can happen with some older, underpowered models). Under normal running conditions, no part of the locomotive should get hot enough to cause any problems.
Have you got any pictures of the unit you made for the Bachman 4-6-0? so I can use as a baseline? My prototype uses a cut down syringe with the with atomiser glued in place near the outlet. Do you also use a ancillary water supply to keep the foam wet under the atomiser?
I forgot to take any, but when I get the design a bit more refined, I'll publish the 3D printable files. The tank holds quite a lot of water, and the wick goes all the way from the disk down to the bottom of the tank. It pulls the water up the wick by capillary action. Eventually I'd like to figure out a design that eliminates the wick entirely.
It depends on the height, but on the Bachmann loco, it needs about a centimeter of internal diameter. I did have to drill out the center of one of the Bachmann smokestacks to get it large enough.
did you ever figure out how trs trains got it to work in oo scale? what was the secret ive been 3d printing and prototypeing on and off for ages but havent figured out the secret about the small opening the steam has to come out of condensers and blocks the hole off too quickly and blocks any more output of steam, there must be some secret there to it did you have any luck working out what hes doing differently.?
So far, I haven't figured out his secret. I think he must be using a smaller atomizer unit. I do know that he has a special "smoke fluid" that he uses instead of water, which is supposed to make more visible steam and reduce the condensation problem, but I have no idea what it contains (and he did have the system working with just water as well).
Have you released printer files for this yet? I don’t model in G Scale (HO/OO for me), but I figured I could adapt the files and try and make the unit fit in another locomotive as I have a Hornby Flying Scotsman that seems to have a fair bit of space in the front
I haven't gotten the files to a point where I feel they're ready to release yet. Soon hopefully, but I have a lot of other ongoing projects, so it might be a while.
Absolutely brilliant I had the same issue on my Polar Express but drop the idea due to the same issues and opted for the TAR1 and TAR2 smoke box built for RC Tanks instead. However you have put the work into this and deserve the creativity credit . Also have you considered e - cigarettes....Vapes for a smoke unit with its own battery already fitted?
Thanks! Vapes actually work almost exactly the same way as a traditional model train (or tank) smoke unit. The fluid they use is also pretty much the same (although the vape version often has flavoring or nicotine added). I have seen them used in that way, usually on RC boats, but since the vape heating elements are only designed to run for a few seconds at a time, they can be prone to burning out if forced to run continuously. I did have some success in experiments with a smoke unit designed for RC cars, which produces quite a lot of thick smoke using a vape-like mechanism, but it's very noisy and requires a radio system to control it. I believe it was made by Killerbody, a company that mostly makes RC car bodies and accessories. It came with a small bottle of oil for smoke, but I found that Bachmann smoke fluid actually worked better. I may continue to experiment with heat-based smoke units, but so far, I like the water-based system much better, especially for indoor use. Some heat-based systems can produce thicker smoke, but usually only for a few seconds at a time, and I've found them to be much less reliable.
@@michaelramsey81 Thanks for getting back to me on this subject. I bought additional stronger heating coil which work fine but you need to work out the correct amps to get the best results . I took the RC Tank ,TARR1 smoke unit out and put it in my Polar Express check the video out on my channel tell what you think ? I’m open to any feedback 😂modifying with the stronger coil seem to me to do the job with a 7.5ma 3s lipo battery pack. Absolutely brilliant carry on with the good work on your quality channel ....... I’ve subscribed 👏👏👏👏👏👍
Yes, it's a live steam model of a Sandy River 2-6-2. The model is produced by Roundhouse Engineering in the UK. I believe it's 1/19 scale. It belongs to my friend Terry, whose layout this is (well, was - he's since moved).
This is great info, thank you. Do you know if there is any option out there for a smaller atomizer head? I know that these are already pretty tiny, but if there would be one out there about 30% smaller, that would allow installation into some more troublesome locomotive stacks near the top to avoid the condensation issue. I've been searching, but so far it seems like the unit used in your video is about the smallest out there.
Unfortunately, I've been unable to find a smaller one available anywhere, despite a lot of searching. I, too, wish they made one just a bit smaller, as it would allow it to fit in most HO scale locomotives. However, as you noted, the one I'm using is already the smallest one I could find. I even tried cutting the edges of one to squeeze it down smaller, but that just cracked the ceramic ring inside and ruined the disc.
I'm still working on that. TRS Trains made it work, but I found that, if it's only activated part of the time, it didn't produce enough steam to look right.
Can you trim the steel plate and re-solder the wires? 20mm is too big for the cylindrical smoke stacks unless you put it underneath the bottom of the stack.
I've tried that, but had no success. There is a thin ceramic ring around the outside of the disc, and any attempt to cut it just cracks the ring into a bunch of pieces, and then it doesn't work anymore. That's why I put it under the bottom of the stack in the 4-6-0. There doesn't seem to be any workable way to make the disc smaller.
I haven't measured it yet, but I don't think it's very much. It doesn't seem to affect the runtime of my battery-powered locos, at least not that I've noticed.
I tried Bachmann smoke fluid, which is a mix of glycerin and propylene glycol. It didn't work at all. The atomizer disks are designed to work with water (or something the consistency of water - glycerin and propylene glycol are both thicker).
I've experimented with using multiple discs to increase the visible steam output, but so far, I haven't found a configuration that's noticeably better than the one presented in the video. Of course, experiments are ongoing, but my current priority is figuring out a way to make it realistically "puff" in sync with the wheels.
@@michaelramsey81 I imagine that would be a significant challenge: need to control the physical flow of air. Option 1 would be to create a blast pipe from cylinder to stack. Option 2 would be to fab 2 discs, cutout 1/2 of each, and spin 1 disc in sync with the exhaust cylinder, thereby allowing vapour to escape with each rotation. Would need electronics, motor, power etc. Option 3 could be a diaphragm of sorts, to act as an air pump.
@@georgemeyer8521 As far as I know, TRS creates a puffing effect by simply switching the atomizer on and off in time with the sound. This works well in smaller scales, but in G scale, I found that it reduced the volume of steam too much.
I think i'm banned from Bachmann's parts store because it's be well over 4 months now and it still says approving pending, and I can't order anything. Cheers Jasper & Willow
That is very weird. I remember you've been having that issue for a long time. Have you tried making a new account using a different email address, or logging in from another computer?
Have you tried putting one of these in an HO locomotive? I'm interested in trying myself, but I don't know if you could make the water tank fit. Also, have you had problems with water leaking into the motor, as the thought of that makes me very nervous.
I've experimented with these in HO locomotives, but so far, I haven't figured out a way to make it work reliably. I'm still trying to work out how TRS Trains has it set up - whatever he's doing works brilliantly.
@@michaelramsey81 Yeah, he definitely has made it work well. At first I was thinking that maybe he had the water tank in the tender or something, but after having a look at his channel he has done it in tank engines, and somehow in all wheel drive diesels. Would be worth experimenting with though, so I might try a bit of that myself.
It can, but I haven't managed to do it successfully yet. Fitting the mechanism into an HO locomotive boiler takes some serious reverse-engineering and custom fabricating.
In technical terms, probably HO. TRS Trains has done lots of OO scale (same size as HO) installations. In terms of a simple DIY system like mine, I haven't managed to squeeze it into an HO locomotive yet, but O or G scale shouldn't be too hard.
I haven't tried adding fragrances to the water, but I can't see any reason it wouldn't work. Only issue I can think of would be if the fragrance changes the viscosity or the surface tension of the water. Definitely worth experimenting with!
Water smoke units in my opinion work a lot better than actual heater smoke units Also it's a lot cheaper too Why can't Bachman just put one of these in there smoking units instead of the not very well working heaters
I wish they would! Probably won't happen, though - Bachmann has been making the same crappy smoke unit for 40 years, and I doubt they'll stop anytime soon.
I would like to replace the heated smoke unit with a water one in my 0-6-0 Even like you said trs trains put water units in ho locomotives if Bachmann just would replace the smoke unit in the 0-6-0 or other models With water units it would better and more Realistic (Because steam engines run on water
@@RaptorXmedia It is - in fact, the factory smoke unit is located entirely inside the funnel (or smokestack, as it's called in North America). There is a plug coming out of the bottom of the stack that connects to a socket in the loco to provide power to the smoke unit. The stack simply friction-fits into the hole in the top of the smokebox (although I ended up gluing mine in place because it was slightly loose and kept falling out whenever I turned the loco upside down to work on it).
TRS Trains does installations in OO scale, which is the same size as HO. I think he's done at least one in an HO locomotive. It would be much trickier to install, but it's definitely possible.
@@Steamerthesteamtrain Yes, it's definitely possible. I believe he even did an installation in a Rapido HO Royal Hudson. I just haven't figured out his secrets yet, lol.
I tried that, but didn't have much success. If it only activates in short bursts to simulate chuffs, it just doesn't produce enough steam to look good. I'm tinkering with a different chuffing mechanism that works by interfering with the airflow into the unit, but that needs a lot more R&D before it's ready for a video.
@@michaelramsey81 The common method is to have a fan between the steam unit itself and the funnel/ smoke outlet. The fan is then connected to the chuff-sensor on the wheels or the respective chuff-output on the decoder; the latter method is how the folks of TRS Trains do it as well (although not many decoders have that sort of output for a synchronised smoke unit; the only ones I know of are ZIMO and ESU, and those are quite pricy). I imagine you could also try to connect the steam unit to the motor, so that it's off when the engine is stationary, but then shares whatever current is given with the motor. You wouldn't have a dynamic chuff then, but at least the quantity of steam output would be regulated by the speed of the loco, making it look somewhat more realistic. I shall get to tinkering with that sort of thing myself, I fancy...
@Merlin Island & Crab Cove Railway Is it? Huh... I just assumed that was how it worked because the puffs of smoke are so similar to normal oil-based dynamic smoke systems that work the way I said. Now I'm curious as to how the TRS system actually works...
@@sudrianliam1199 My understanding is that the TRS system uses ultrasonic discs similar to mine and just turns them on and off with each puff. I could be wrong though.
I'm actually not sure who makes the discs - they're usually sold without a brand name. You could absolutely make it work in an LGB locomotive - in fact, my next installation will probably be my old LGB 0-4-0.
@@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan Unfortunately, I don't own an LGB Mogul. I think the best configuration would depend on whether yours has the straight smokestack or the larger balloon stack. If it has the balloon stack, you might be able to do something similar to what I did in the Aristocraft loco. If I ever do buy an LGB Mogul (which I would really like to someday), I'll do a video on installing this system in it.
@@michaelramsey81 yeah as far as smokestacks go, my engine has a shotgun smokestack and is the background photo for my RU-vid channel. If you look at my main RU-vid page, my background cover photo is my custom painted LGB mogul. Truthfully, the pride and joy of my G scale collection. Stay tuned for next month in either the first or second weekend of January my engine will be returning to service ready for the annual train show.
